Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

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David Cherniack

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Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 9:23 pm

Am I missing something?

This is such a basic function of any motion graphics work I can't believe it's still not there. In early betas I believe I saw them. They just didn't work. Now with release the switches are gone. Come on Blackmagic, if you want to be taken seriously as an NLE you have to provide basic functions.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSat Aug 18, 2018 10:33 pm

Pages 643 to 645 of the manual go into detail on ease in/out for position in the timeline viewer. Different than doing it with scale, etc.
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David Cherniack

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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSat Aug 18, 2018 10:45 pm

Yes, back in v14 I tried to use motion paths to create smooth ins and outs that matched an ease out/ease in of scaling. I soon gave that up as unworkable in any way except by trial and error and sheer luck. Handles in the curve editor can be made to match pretty exactly.

.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSun Aug 19, 2018 4:30 am

A simple right click on the keyframe>Ease In/Out option is what's needed and wanted here.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSun Aug 19, 2018 8:34 am

Jim Simon wrote:A simple right click on the keyframe>Ease In/Out option is what's needed and wanted here.


You mean like this?
The option is available but does NOT work correctly. I'm getting so annoyed by this awful implementation of position smoothing that I'm going to do a submission to BMD detailing why their approach is unusable.
DVEs had this sorted out back in the 1980s. Why can't we have it working 30 years later?

Screen Shot 2018-08-19 at 6.29.19 pm.png
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David Cherniack

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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSun Aug 19, 2018 12:27 pm

I tried taking a clip into the fusion page to do transform keyframing but it was a 5.5k
Red file and it quickly ran into GPU memory error (apparently an 11GB card is not enough for Fusion and that size of clip) and the error crashed Resolve repeatedly.
A half rez optimized version made no difference - I guess Fusion doesn't use it - so rather than make a proxy and experiment in Fusion my workaround was very simple:

1) make xml of shot
2) import xml in Premiere and do transform keyframing
3) export shot and import into Resolve

All for the lack of position ease out/in.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSun Aug 19, 2018 2:45 pm

Peter Cave wrote:You mean like this?


Adding Ease In and Ease Out to that drop down list would suffice.

This needs to be an option without manual manipulation of Spline curves.
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David Cherniack

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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSun Aug 19, 2018 3:07 pm

Jim Simon wrote:This needs to be an option without manual manipulation of Spline curves.


I'd prefer to adjust the ease in/out spline curves so there's better control in the curve editor.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSun Aug 19, 2018 9:21 pm

I agree being able to choose ease in/out in the curve editor would be nice as long as they leave the current way for those of us that prefer the finer acceleration control of the smooth option and the visual aspect the viewer offers over the curve editor.

The option is available but does NOT work correctly.


In what way? Elaborating helps Blackmagic workout potential issues. Works correctly on my end.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSun Aug 19, 2018 9:51 pm

David Cherniack wrote:I'd prefer to adjust the ease in/out spline curves so there's better control in the curve editor.



You can do that now. We're not suggesting that option go away.

We're asking for a simple, one click option that doesn't require that kind of manipulation.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSun Aug 19, 2018 11:35 pm

Seems to be broken in DR15 release.
I cannot get it to work at all.
It was never great to begin with.
Does need an overhaul.....
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSun Aug 19, 2018 11:48 pm

DigiKin wrote:You can do that now. We're not suggesting that option go away


Just so it's clear we're talking about the same thing: in the curve editor there is no Ease in/out buttons for x/y positioning and that's my particular complaint.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 12:04 pm

I guess the ease-in/out would automatically adjust the x/y position over time to alter the effective acceleration. This is different than providing splines or Bezier handles. It's actually sort of odd in a way because the X/Y position editor allows you to manually change the path in a way most X/Y position keyframe editors do not. In fact, because you can change the path over time, you have the ultimate control over ease-in/out but it would be a huge improvement to have something similar to a 'smooth' operation that would calculate an ease-in/out path between absolute position keyframes.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious. I was late to the party.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 12:18 pm

Steve Alexander wrote:I guess the ease-in/out would automatically adjust the x/y position over time to alter the effective acceleration. This is different than providing splines or Bezier handles. It's actually sort of odd in a way because the X/Y position editor allows you to manually change the path in a way most X/Y position keyframe editors do not. In fact, because you can change the path over time, you have the ultimate control over ease-in/out but it would be a huge improvement to have something similar to a 'smooth' operation that would calculate an ease-in/out path between absolute position keyframes.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious. I was late to the party.


No, you're getting at the difference between motion paths in the program monitor, which are spacial and temporal, and curves in the curve editor which are strictly temporal. Splines and their subset of ease in/out should be features of both, in both places.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 4:30 pm

Hi,

I agree with this issue being a problem.
I have tried to, and given up trying to, make the positioning ease in and out work properly.
So 'EASY' to do with Premiere Pro. :)

Needs to be addressed for sure.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 6:02 pm

Agreed... coming from Vegas I was surprised this was so lacking. Thought it was supposed to be addressed in Resolve 15.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 6:40 pm

I agree, without this functionality positioning becomes very trying.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostTue Aug 21, 2018 2:14 am

+1 from me.

Motion graphics (and ease-in/out specifically) are sufficiently painful in Resolve that I'm doing all of mine in another application and re-importing the video.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 7:12 pm

I'm ripping my hair out trying to achieve very basic eased pan movement for a scaled in shot.

+1 this needs to be addressed. Either an automatic Ease In/Ease Out or a more preferably a way to manipulate the speed/accel curve between position keyframes
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 9:27 am

Charles Lyons wrote:+1 from me.

Motion graphics (and ease-in/out specifically) are sufficiently painful in Resolve that I'm doing all of mine in another application and re-importing the video.
+100 here. I was utterly frustrated with coming to grips with how painful a process it is to attempt Ease In/Ease Out in positioning a clip within the bounds of the viewer, along a motion path I created.

Vegas' implementation is painlessly simple and highly effective.

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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Oct 05, 2018 4:55 pm

Was hoping for some improvement in the 15.1.1 version for the position keyframing problem but not yet.
I wonder if anyone at BM is actually looking at this issue?
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 7:00 pm

RDWarren wrote:Was hoping for some improvement in the 15.1.1 version for the position keyframing problem but not yet.
I wonder if anyone at BM is actually looking at this issue?


I'm curious as well, as I'd love to use Resolve but if this isn't on their radar I'm going to commit to Premiere
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 12:35 am

Might be worth checking out Fusion's DVE tool ... I've no idea if/how it works, I dare say theres a learning curve, but from a quick look I'm seeing a Path > Polyline > Ease In/Out control.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostWed Feb 13, 2019 9:03 pm

anyone find a good way to ease x and y position keyframes?
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Mar 08, 2019 3:45 pm

RDWarren wrote:Was hoping for some improvement in the 15.1.1 version for the position keyframing problem but not yet.
I wonder if anyone at BM is actually looking at this issue?
"Bump"
Perhaps Peter Chamberlain might have some empathy for us motion graphics and video editors, and put a word in for us so that by NAB2019, Resolve [Studio at least] has meaningful, user-friendly implementation of Ease-In/Out functionality, in both spline editing and position node preset keyframing scenarios, as many have been begging for.
@PeterChamberlain if listening, any encouraging thoughts on this?

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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSat Mar 09, 2019 2:21 pm

I agree, please help us Peter!
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSat Mar 09, 2019 6:26 pm

The same implementation as it does exist now for Zoom X & Y would be perfect.

Switching between types of interpolation with the buttons on top of the graph and then have bezier handles available for manual adjustments in modes other than linear.

The method described on pages 643 through 645 of the manual does work, but is a different approach that not only needs getting used to but also its easing is less intuitive.
The curve representation of the easing is easier to read than the distances of frames on the path in the program window.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSun Mar 10, 2019 1:37 am

Blackmagic has announced that a new version of Resolve will be shown in 30 days at NAB in Las Vegas, so perhaps your wishes will happen. But the crystal ball is cloudy...
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostSun Mar 10, 2019 9:27 pm

I totally agree that for a professional software it is a MUST to provide totally controlled Pos X,Y animations. I killed a lot of time to study the subject since i couldn't believe it's the way it is in DR and i hoped to find the way out. I tried both ways playing with control point handles. But you can get anything from ease in/out except ease in/out. The transition can start earlier the keyframe and even in the opposite direction, than change direction several times on the way. It's so weird. The only way within DR is via Fusion, which takes a lot of both computer resources and time. So if you have a long project and you need to pan/zoom a lot, forget about DR.
At the moment i export footage from DR to Blender3d (i use it for 3d animation) and do all pan/zooming there. I'd like developers to try how easy and smooth it is there! Than i change the screen in Blender from video footage to some still image with markers and render that screen with all the camera animations. Then i import to DR that footage at the second track and the still image with markers on the third track half transparent. Than i manually sort of frame by frame zoom and pan that still image to fit the rendered one via camera in Blender and after that i copy all transformation and zoom animation from this track to the original footage (CtrlCopy - AltV). And it's another story if than you will happen to change something.
It is not that i give someone advice to do so. On the contrary, i'd like to hear any other solution from anybody here. But more than that i'd like developers to know how BAD is the situation with such an easy and necessary item.
PS. Please don't offer adobe as a solution. I don't use software on subscription basic. And i think there are many like me who'd jump to DR but things like ease in/out just simply turn you away from a really good software with a great potential. So i hope...
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostMon Mar 11, 2019 5:16 pm

vivoices wrote:The same implementation as it does exist now for Zoom X & Y would be perfect.


That's what I'm hoping for as well.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostWed Mar 13, 2019 7:34 am

Mar 13, 2019
Here's what i decided.
I'll purchase the studio version and i'd like it to be an investment into transformation ease in/out. Of cause it's neither an order or a manipulation any kind. It's just to show that i evaluate DR as a great program definitely worthy the money and that i trust it'll be better. And transformation ease in/out is #1 item on the way as i see it. Just gauss for example what if someone at NAB asks you to demonstrate such a basic thing and... End.

PS. For developers.
After using Blender 3d for a long time i have some suggestions how to make animation process way easier and faster. I'm not a programmer but i also think it'll not take much efforts to implement. Just contact me if you need it.
Thank you.

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I bought it.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 5:05 pm

I'm fairly new to Resolve and so far I am liking what I am seeing BUT, and it's a big but. I cannot believe that there are so many small things that are missing that I would call, basic functionality.

This easing issue, the fact that OFX effects keyframes can't be edited let alone, eased are just two things that puzzle me.

I viewed Resolve as an industry professional editing suite. A suite that Hollywood used to edit movies with and grading. Everyone I saw was always going on about how bad Premiere is and how much better resolve is. Ok, while the colour grading part is nice to work with, I find that I scratch my head about how a professional editor could get things done with these small but necessary functions not being available?!

At the moment, IMO, resolve is a good start but it's not ready for a big production. I have hopes that the next major release, fingers crossed that's NAB we see these little things that jump out and gotcha, are resolved (pun intended)

Funny thing is, I was so looking forward to using BRAW but I find, to get certain things done I'd need to switch out to Premiere. If Adobe adds BRAW support natively to PProCC being it's open sourced it could spell more adoption issues for Resolve.

I'm feeling very torn.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 9:50 pm

aglyons wrote:I viewed Resolve as an industry professional editing suite. A suite that Hollywood used to edit movies with


Resolve's editing capabilities have grown by leaps and bounds the last couple years. The BMD crew simply aren't human with the pace of development they've demonstrated. (When do those guys sleep?!)

And while Resolve has a well earned reputation in professional circles as a coloring tool, it is relatively new in the NLE work space.

What I'm hearing is that AVID is still king of Hollywood and Broadcast. Premiere Pro is the most widely used NLE on the planet when you include markets outside of Hollywood and Broadcast. Lightworks has been used for a LOT of Hollywood titles. FCP took a nose dive when it went to FCP X. And Resolve is still listed as an OTHER in the NLE rankings.

But these guys are just getting started. :D
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 11:54 pm

Agreed, BM has been fantastic with updates and turn around times with bugs. Honestly night and day compared to Adobe. Positive vibes to all that work on the development of the product! You are doing a fantastic job! There are definitely things to be improved, but that is with any product. Would love to see this update, but am very willing to wait. Resolve is heading in the right direction imo.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostThu Mar 28, 2019 1:18 pm

DigiKin wrote:Pages 643 to 645 of the manual go into detail on ease in/out for position in the timeline viewer. Different than doing it with scale, etc.


Would be so nice, but what the Manual promises (now page 687 in the updated version), the software doesn't deliver. I have two keyframes on an image, one with has the position set at [0,-1135] and the other at [0, 800]. When I right click the orange diamond at either of these positions, Linear is the only interpolation option I am offered.

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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Apr 05, 2019 9:42 am

I've been waiting to the update. Now it's 15.3.1 And so what?
The problem is there...

I still don't know which of the four is the answer:
1) Not many people need it
2) Not many people know what a real ease in/out is
3) Many people gave up.
4) Or what?

It's so sad...
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Apr 05, 2019 11:49 am

Here's another crazy way to make it. Let's say we need ease in and abrupt out.
1) Insert start and end keyframes. In my example it's the start and end of the clip.
2) Insert the markers at those points. In my case blue ones.
3) In the middle between blue markers place the green one.
4) In the middle between green and blue place the red one.
5) Playhead to green marker. Than insert new keyframes (at the inspector pannel).

Fig1.PNG
Fig1.PNG (12.9 KiB) Viewed 46918 times

6) Select all new markers and move them to red marker.

Fig2.PNG
Fig2.PNG (11.12 KiB) Viewed 46918 times

7) Move the right blue marker to where the red one was (see below). Thus we have new segment between blue markers. Now we repeat.
8) Place the green marker in the middle between blue ones.
9) Place the red one between green and blue.
10) Playhead to the green.
11) New keyframes.

Fig3.PNG
Fig3.PNG (10.75 KiB) Viewed 46918 times

3 images limit. To be continued.
Last edited by VladVP on Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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VladVP

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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Apr 05, 2019 12:37 pm

12) Move the new keyframes to red marker.
Fig4.PNG
Fig4.PNG (11.24 KiB) Viewed 46908 times

13) Go on.
Here's what you finally get.
Fig6.PNG
Fig6.PNG (10.82 KiB) Viewed 46908 times

The same extended at the start
Fig7.PNG
Fig7.PNG (10.5 KiB) Viewed 46908 times

That was ease in/ abrupt out.
If you need abrupt in/ ease out, move the new keyframes to the left. In other words, place the red marker between FIRST blue marker (not the last one) and green one.
If you need ease in/ease out, work on eache half of the transition segment separately. Which means
1) Insert the keyframes in the middle and don't touch them. Let's call this point transition middle point.
2) Work separately with the segment to the left and the segment to the right.
3) In both segments new keyframes must be moved towards the transition middle point. So your actions should be like mirrowed from the transition middle point.

If you animate position and zooming (and/or any other parameters) sumultaniosly, they ALL should be in liner mode (not bezier). Otherwise the transition might not be inlined. What can also really help is placing ancor point to the desired object.

Finally to make the paths smoother you can turn the keyframes to bezier and adjust the angle of splines. But it can ONLY be applied after the main job is done in liner mode.

I know, it all sounds crazy. But it's better something... And as you start, you'll see, it's not so scared.

PS. Greetings to developers.
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Joshua Morin

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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Apr 05, 2019 12:39 pm

Damn that's intense!
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Apr 05, 2019 1:00 pm

VladVP wrote:I've been waiting to the update. Now it's 15.3.1 And so what?
The problem is there...

I still don't know which of the four is the answer:
1) Not many people need it
2) Not many people know what a real ease in/out is
3) Many people gave up.
4) Or what?

It's so sad...


Sad it is. But I think that there must be a huge coding issue to implement ease in and ease out with positioning. The probable cause is the overlap with the positioning keyframes in the Program monitor. My workaround is now the Fusion page.
David
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VladVP

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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Apr 05, 2019 1:18 pm

David Cherniack wrote:The probable cause is the overlap with the positioning keyframes in the Program monitor. My workaround is now the Fusion page.

I'm not a programmer and i don't know. But it's a key feature as i see it.
Yes, in Fusion it's fine. But it takes a lot of resources and if you have a multicam 4k plus CG, plus FX, it's not that pleasure.
And to be honest i'd also like one more time to draw attention of developers to the issue.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Apr 05, 2019 1:23 pm

VladVP wrote:
David Cherniack wrote:The probable cause is the overlap with the positioning keyframes in the Program monitor. My workaround is now the Fusion page.

I'm not a programmer and i don't know. But it's a key feature as i see it.
Yes, in Fusion it's fine. But it takes a lot of resources and if you have a multicam 4k plus CG, plus FX, it's not that pleasure.
And to be honest i'd also like one more time to draw attention of developers to the issue.


I completely agree. The should hear about it from as many of us as there are grains of sand in the ocean!
David
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostFri Apr 05, 2019 1:49 pm

I posted another issue today but there's no answer yet. Maybe someone here can help?
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=88696
Thank you.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostMon Apr 08, 2019 8:38 pm

Davinci 16 beta.
Congratulations!

Key new features
Edit
• Ease in and out position keyframes in the curves editor
WOW!
And...
I don't know why it's not always that you can switch from linear to smooth clicking on pictogram in edit window, but at least you can always do it right clicking on keyframe itself. It's strange, but ok.
01sm.PNG
01sm.PNG (19.86 KiB) Viewed 46866 times

So we can see short handle. Nice. But there's no effect yet. I have the same image on track 1 and track 2, both 50% transparent. The same keyframes, but 1-st track linear, and 2-nd is the one where i change things. As i move playhead i'll see the difference between (if the transitions are different). So i move it and no difference. Both images have the same transition, no effect yet.
02sm.PNG
02sm.PNG (20.12 KiB) Viewed 46866 times

Obviously i have to pull the handle. So i do. And i see a couple of moments
1) you can only pull it horisontally (which is not to bad, but not like with zoom, rotation and opacity anyway)
2) As you moove the handle at keyframe editor look what happens with the path in viewport. It CURVES (see below). The same problem was in DR15. And it is sad.
03sm.PNG
03sm.PNG (21.58 KiB) Viewed 46866 times

Three pictures per post limit is over. To be continued.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostMon Apr 08, 2019 8:46 pm

So i place the playhead to first keyframe and i can see the handle in viewport
04sm_.PNG
04sm_.PNG (20.04 KiB) Viewed 46862 times

I aling the handle with the path and than pull it toards the other keyframe. Fist of all you can feel that it's so unstable. And second, look at the path: it goes beyound the second keframe
05sm.PNG
05sm.PNG (20.07 KiB) Viewed 46862 times

And it's exactly where the image will go if you pull the playhead. Once again, the image will go beyond the destination point and than it will return back. The same problem was in DR15
06sm.PNG
06sm.PNG (21.17 KiB) Viewed 46862 times

If you try to change the other keyframe to smooth and try to pull the handle in viewport toards first keyframe, you'll see how unstable and unpredictable is this instrument. It's not workable.
So are there any changes? Yes, you can now switch from linear to bezier in keyframe editor. But you could do it in DR15 in viewport anyway. As for the rest - there's no difference. And thus we have the same tricky instrument that i can not call a professional. Sorry.
PS. I want to thank developers for they paid attantion to the problem. But... It's not solved at all.
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VladVP

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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostMon Apr 08, 2019 8:56 pm

To developers.
Please make it workable. Please.
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aglyons

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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostTue Apr 09, 2019 12:32 pm

Yaaay for v16!!!!
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostWed Apr 10, 2019 12:13 am

It's nice to have the right click option for Position keyframes in the Inspector, but...it doesn't seem to be doing what I expected.

More testing required.
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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostWed Apr 10, 2019 3:43 am

This would be very useful if it worked better.
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Peter Benson

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Re: Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

PostWed Apr 10, 2019 6:30 am

Come, now, programmers thanks for the start with DR version 16 -- but surely you can heed the several years' worth of your animation-experienced customers' suggestions for a needed user-friendly, intuitive Ease-in/Out tools implementation.
Please, we beg you.
[Re]Pete
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