Cut Page Feedback

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Rob Smith

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Cut Page Feedback

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 2:57 am

I watched Graham's full "Technical Product Overview" (love those btw, I even enjoy learning about the high-end hardware I'll never get to use ;) ) and heard the ideas behind the new cut page. It seemed noble enough, quick-to-use tools for quick turnaround for people working to quick deadlines.

I use Resolve for YT as well so I also appreciated the notion of bringing high-quality tools to professionals working in that space...but I'm not the kind of 'working from a hotel room at a convention' sort of person, so I kinda presumed I wouldn't find myself using the Cut page much, I'd stick to the Edit page I've always used.

Well I've just made a short 5min video (VO over some relevant bg footage) and I can honestly say I love the Source Tape view - it saved me a bunch of time compared to normal.

As others have said, it screams to be added to the normal Edit page. Having 2 viewers, 1 for Source Tape the other for Timeline would be superb. I had a rough cut done in a couple minutes, didn't have to worry that I'd missed a golden nugget from the imported clips. Just hopped back to Edit for fine tuning and adding more details afterwards.

There were some bugs, most notable seemed to be my VO audio track in A2 was labelled as A1 on the Cut page? (It didn't overwrite my VO when adding to A1 though, so it seems like a labelling display issue?)

Quietly impressed with the Cut Page though. Interested to know what other features I'll find more useful that I initially thought as time goes on.
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Johannes Hoffmann

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 9:24 am

I gave the Cut page a go yesterday with short video project (about 1 or 2 min).

I like the concept of the two timelines, but it takes time to get used to it. I found myself constantly clicking into the "ruler" off the lower timeline to reposition the playhead ;-) The question is: what happens if I use both Edit and Cut all the time? Will my brain adjust back and forth? I think it would be a good idea to have the UI behave identical on pages as much as possible (there is a way to go here for Fairlight and Fusion pages as well ...)

What I liked:
- Smart Insert (please make it an option for the Edit page as well)
- Trimming and audio display in viewer (can we have this in the Edit page as well?)
- Source Tape
- Tools integration in the viewer
- It is good to have a new page to experiment with a new concept without messing with the familiar Edit page design (but I hope that both pages can reach a UI paradigm that is close to each other)
- A navigation timeline that fully works for trim and drag etc.
- That Blackmagic does not insist on the 2 GB VRAM mentioned in the release notes. My good old MacBook Pro (2012!) with 1 GB runs DR 16 fine (ProRes and BRAW) on a HD Timeline. I would save advance color stuff for the workstation at home of course. But for the rough cut on set it would be sad if could not run DR 16.

What I missed:
- Shortcuts! The Cut page is all about speed. We need Shortcuts for all the edit buttons and for switching the viewer modes. Best thing would be using the same shortcuts as on the Edit page where possible.
- Some kind of visual difference of the clips in the navigation timeline. The concept of this timeline includes an easy way to swap clips back and forth over distance. And for this I like to see more than blue rectangles. I know that is a space issue. But for a typical assembly of a short project I would give up some hight of the lower timeline to have more space in the navigation timeline.
- Blade and stupid insert (Resolve may be smart, but I am the artist ;-)
- Trim start/end
- Option to adjust the horizontal screen devision

All in all I am looking forward to see the Cut page develop ...

Johannes
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Tom Early

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 10:46 am

[quote]Johannes Hoffmann wrote:- Option to adjust the horizontal screen devision


You can already do that, via the square with the 3 lines on the right of the screen
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Steve Alexander

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 11:53 am

The missing shortcuts is a big one. Also, shortcuts for other edit/trim operations - obvious functions on the Edit page that are missing from the Cut page should be added (I'm not talking about all functions but there are a few trim/clip functions that should also work on the Cut page, IMO).
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Jason Tackaberry

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 6:07 pm

One of the glaring omissions for me is middle-click drag to pan the timeline. This shortcut is baked into the Edit, Fusion, Color, and Fairlight pages (with Edit and Fairlight moving the timeline and Fusion and Color panning the node area).

I also wish that middle clicking anywhere in the timeline area in all pages would move the playhead to the cursor position (provided it wasn't dragged). That would be a real time saver shortcut. Alternatively (and maybe even better), right-click drag anywhere in the timeline area to move the playhead.
Last edited by Jason Tackaberry on Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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VioletWolf

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 6:31 pm

Jason Tackaberry wrote:One of the glaring omissions for me is middle-click drag to pan the timeline. This shortcut is baked into the Edit, Fusion, Color, and Fairlight pages (with Edit and Fairlight moving the timeline and Fusion and Color panning the node area).

I also wish that middle clicking anywhere in the timeline area in all pages would move the playhead to the cursor position (provided it wasn't dragged). That would be a real time saver shortcut.


This is coming. Watch the video linked in the top of the thread where he discusses future plans for the Cut Page and mentions they are looking forward to working with the user base to make something really cool. It's a Beta so the whole idea is to introduce it to the users early and have everyone help in the design.
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VioletWolf

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 6:33 pm

.

Oops I see the video is not linked here it is: (watch from 1:14:20 till the end for plans for the Cut Page)

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Johannes Hoffmann

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 6:35 pm

Tom Early wrote:
[quote]Johannes Hoffmann wrote:- Option to adjust the horizontal screen devision


You can already do that, via the square with the 3 lines on the right of the screen

Thanks for the hint! I missed that one (an other example what happens when UI elements are different between pages)

Johannes
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Jason Tackaberry

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 7:07 pm

VioletWolf wrote:It's a Beta so the whole idea is to introduce it to the users early and have everyone help in the design.
I thought that's what we were doing here on this thread. :)
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VioletWolf

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostSun Apr 14, 2019 7:14 pm

Jason Tackaberry wrote:I thought that's what we were doing here on this thread. :)


Most of us ;)
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Rick van den Berg

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 10:40 am

i dont even have a separate audio track? it looks baked into the video track.
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Philipp Glaninger

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 11:48 am

Rick van den Berg wrote:i dont even have a separate audio track? it looks baked into the video track.

Yes I think that is the case and this will be one of the main reasons why I can not use the Cut Page that often.
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Steve Alexander

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 12:59 pm

This may be antithetical to the cut page design but I would like to be able to zoom-in to the upper timeline. If you have hundreds or thousands of clips on that timeline, you'll need to zoom in a bit for it to be a useful navigation tool.

Or - you can say that the cut page is NOT intended for a timeline with hundreds of clips...
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Peter Cave

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 2:09 pm

Philipp Glaninger wrote:
Rick van den Berg wrote:i dont even have a separate audio track? it looks baked into the video track.

Yes I think that is the case and this will be one of the main reasons why I can not use the Cut Page that often.


If you change to the edit page you will see all the audio tracks as you would expect in a standard track layup.
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John Paines

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 2:13 pm

Peter Cave wrote:If you change to the edit page you will see all the audio tracks as you would expect in a standard track layup.


And if all these enhancements and modifications are added, that's exactly what we'll end up with. The Edit page. There's a reason it's a bit clunky. It's containing what can't be easily contained. Simple and elegant doesn't always follow function.
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Rick van den Berg

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 2:20 pm

Peter Cave wrote:
Philipp Glaninger wrote:
Rick van den Berg wrote:i dont even have a separate audio track? it looks baked into the video track.

Yes I think that is the case and this will be one of the main reasons why I can not use the Cut Page that often.


If you change to the edit page you will see all the audio tracks as you would expect in a standard track layup.


when i add some music on a1 in the cut page, it puts it on a18 in the edit page. this was after i already put footage with 8 audio tracks on it. which kind of makes sense, but i would expect a9.

when i turn it around, first the music on a new timeline on a1 (in cut page), then it also shows a1 in the edit page. after that, when i add the 8track footage on top of it, instant crash every time. i can see why its confused though. but i can also not imagine working with only a bit of audio in the cut page (so far) i have to know what is going on with the audio under the hood

there are some clever things in the cut page, especially the source tape, but i rather see them added to the edit page. but i understand this is just a beta. and that im not the only person in the world. im really trying to find ways to add the cut page to my current workflow.

for example, can i use the source overwrite in a way that footage is linked to a wave file, so that i can use it in music videos?

i would also like to know what system is used for the ''What's New in DaVinci Resolve 16'' video, when i see all those realtime fusion examples :roll:
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Mark Grgurev

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 4:03 pm

Steve Alexander wrote:This may be antithetical to the cut page design but I would like to be able to zoom-in to the upper timeline. If you have hundreds or thousands of clips on that timeline, you'll need to zoom in a bit for it to be a useful navigation tool.

Or - you can say that the cut page is NOT intended for a timeline with hundreds of clips...


I would say that's probably out of the scope of the tool. On my 2560x1440 monitor, 500 clips, assuming they're on one track, would each be only about 4 or 5 pixels wide. However, if each of those cuts were 5 seconds, that timeline would be about 42 minutes so I'm not sure how realistic that is. Of course, 250 clips might be more reasonable, and at 8-10 pixels per clip, that's still less than half the clickable area of the smallest buttons on the Cut page. Still could work though.

I wouldn't want zooming on the mini-timeline though. The way I think of it, after you reach the point where it becomes difficult to select clips with it, it would still be useful as a kind of scroll bar with a mini-map. I would add the ability to collapse it into a scrollbar with timecode and I would add the ability to resize the slider and change the zoom ratio of the larger timeline.
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Gary Hango

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 4:20 pm

How about an adjustable magnified area around the playhead on the mini timeline?
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Gary Hango

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 4:22 pm

...or around the mouse cursor when it enters the mini timeline?
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Mark Grgurev

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 4:34 pm

Gary Hango wrote:...or around the mouse cursor when it enters the mini timeline?


Not sure how well it would be receives but it would work.
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Tom Early

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 5:23 pm

Gary Hango wrote:...or around the mouse cursor when it enters the mini timeline?


+1, with maybe a user preference for the length of timeline that would trigger this (otherwise automatic)

...might be tricky to implement though, I wonder if it would be visually confusing in operation?
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Steve Alexander

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 6:11 pm

Is it fair to say that this discussion has evolved to discussing magnification, etc. because we realize that once there are 100+ clips on the timeline, the mini timeline becomes hard to use (which was my earlier point when the number of clips grows to several hundred)?
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VioletWolf

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 6:28 pm

The Cut Page is intended for shorter cuts that need a quick turnaround like 30 second commercials, and news clips etc. They also mention on-set quick test edits to see if you have the shots you need before wrapping the shoot.

Bigger edits will always be the domain of the Edit Page.

Cut is very awesome for the purposes it was designed for. And we're going to see some of these features in the edit page for sure
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Mark Grgurev

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Re: Cut Page Feedback

PostMon Apr 15, 2019 6:50 pm

VioletWolf wrote:The Cut Page is intended for shorter cuts that need a quick turnaround like 30 second commercials, and news clips etc. They also mention on-set quick test edits to see if you have the shots you need before wrapping the shoot.

Bigger edits will always be the domain of the Edit Page.

Cut is very awesome for the purposes it was designed for. And we're going to see some of these features in the edit page for sure

Have you used it to edit a 30 second commercial or news clip? I'm trying to edit a minute long workout video right now and it's already slowed me down.

Each episode begins with a motion graphics sequence that dips to black. The rest of the episode is a trainer explaining the workout and doing the workout while intercut with slow motion shots.

In the Edit page, I would set a dissolve in the timeline, then change the transition type to Dip to Color in the Inspector. I already need to open the Inspector to set the Color but by changing the transition type in the Inspector, I don't have to look through the Effects/transitions list.

In the Cut page, I can only set a Dissolve or Smooth Cut from the buttons in the interface. If I want to do a Dip to Color, I need to look through the Transitions panel and then apply that instead. Since there's no Inspector at all, I can't even set the color I need it to dip to which means I need to open the Edit page.

That's not all.
  • I can't quickly fade a clip out by just dragging from the edges of the clip.
  • The cross dissolve button always assumes you mean the lowest video track even if I have another clip selected.
  • Since the timeline is set so that the play heads position is fixed to the center, I can't just click on a place in the large timeline to set a point to playback from. I have to drag the timeline to that point or remember to click in the mini-timeline.

Not to mention that it looks like there's a bug that won't let me mute audio from the second track even if I disable that track. I also have no option to delete that audio track or drag in just the video to begin with.

It feels like the Cut page's strength is going through footage and putting useable parts of clips into a b-roll timeline. That way an editor can stack another timeline below that in the Edit page and then drag clips into a main timeline.

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