About a viewfinder for P4K ?

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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostSun Jul 28, 2019 9:42 am

I am repeating my self, but from the inexpensive EFV point of view HDMI is everything than a standard.

It can output many different resolutions and frame rates, even interlased/progressive. That makes making the inexpensive EFV using HDMI interface difficult. I guess it is possible, but needs big resources and true demand to make such product.

Also the HDMI does not provide power. That is much bigger problem to make an inexpensive product that I hear people thinking in here.
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostSun Jul 28, 2019 10:11 am

That is the exact thing. You can not just add HDMI connector. You need processor and SW to do it.
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostSun Jul 28, 2019 1:59 pm

What I said is

1. Inexpensive EFV using HDMI interface, I guess it is possible, but needs big resources and true demand to make such product.

2. You can not just connect HDMI connector to some existing EVF that does not have HDMI. Processor and SW for interfasing and video scaling is needed.
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Jul 29, 2019 2:51 am

It is not about being wrong or right and I am happily wrong if some indie company with low or no resourses makes sucsesful bussines with such low cost EFV or if you sucseed to find low cost EVF to witch HDMI can be just wired DIY.

And only happy if some bigger company makes such product. That said personally I do not care of EVF that is very small and difficult to see in. I hope the efforsts are put to provide lower cost proper EVF. The size of normal reasonably small lens is just fine.

I do think HDMI is ancient interface that should already go away I hope USB C will replace it in few years.
Last edited by Kim Janson on Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Denny Smith

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Jul 29, 2019 3:15 am

Ray, you need to try a real cine full size EVF like the BMD one, and then you will understand what Kim and I are taking about. Yes I can use my Nikon Z6 EVF but for video shooting it is hard to use, hard to see the entire shot, and as you mentioned is in the wrong place to use easily. I end up using the LCD screen on thr bsckmof my mirrorless cameras, including the Oly PenF. The Nikon Z6 EVF is bigger snd better than the Oly, but neither are something I would want to try and use to shoot a video scene.
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Jul 29, 2019 3:18 am

I have Canon Eos R. It has pretty good EVF, but too small look in area for my taste.
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Denny Smith

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Jul 29, 2019 5:00 am

Ray, I didn’t say it was wrong to have a small EVF, but it was a option I did not want.
And using a small EVF like the one in a mirrorless Camera even for 5 minutes does not work of me.
Glad it can work for you, but it is not what others like me and Kim want.
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Denny Smith

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Jul 29, 2019 5:29 am

Yes, that is about the same size as the new Zacuto and not much smaller than my Wooden Camera mod of the BMD EVF. They are keeping the size down by having the video processor and lower boards in the camera, so fewer components in the actual EVF.
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Jul 29, 2019 6:11 am

Originally that was as there was huge demand for that. Now I do not think GoPro is doing that well. Anyway, to get to that it took years and many models, huge development budget and miljons of sold cameras.

I have some of the first models, and at the time they where the best. Today I would not use them.

Technically the EVF you are asking, I am sure is possible, and even inexpensive one, if there is huge demand for that, like there was for action cameras.

BTW, just think of 100 euro smart phone, It is far more complex than EVF exept for optical part. The optical part is no more complex than 100 euro lens... it is just question of demand.

The KineEVF Pro looks perfect size.
Last edited by Kim Janson on Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Jul 29, 2019 8:55 am

Just something to think about, when wishing low cost gear :D
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Jul 29, 2019 9:43 am

yeah, ask from anyone that was a drone pilot 10 years ago.
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Jul 29, 2019 10:51 am

Yes it is happening on other areas too, today you can get the Davinci resolve for free, even the full version when it comes with the camera and ok computer starting at 1000 euro. How much would that editing station have cost 10 years ago...

I am just saying think about it, and I do not think it is all good, mostly because the change is awful fast.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Jul 29, 2019 1:41 pm

Australian Image wrote:The EVF has been around for a decade or more, there's no development required other than to re-think the form-factor and features.

I totally agree with Ray. Someone here only see by luxury goods or very expensive. This is a big mistake. I have an old used Evf Cineroid which is ample with a strong sun.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed Jul 31, 2019 2:57 am

Got tired of waiting. Got a good price for a sidefinder. Almost purchased the portkeys but its only powered by dtap.

Hopes this works

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed Jul 31, 2019 1:00 pm

It has taken some time, the 3D printable loupe idea is not dead. It has now sun cover, still some work on this, but starting to be pretty happy to it. This one was printed with Prusa i3 MK3 using PETG so it will not deform under sun.



Loupe.jpg
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The first versions will attach directly to the camera, later on maybe to cages. Also there will be version that has attachment for Samsung T5, this will be available at the same time with the first non T5 version.

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostThu Aug 01, 2019 6:04 pm

Hi Guys
I too have been working on a Viewfinder for the P4k "Blackeye". I'm about a month away for production. I'm trying to work out a few minor issues with the lens as it has a High eyepoint diopter adjustment +- glass eyepiece. I will be sending out a few for reviews shortly.
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ricardo marty

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostSun Sep 01, 2019 9:16 pm

FIlmboy wrote:Hi Guys
I too have been working on a Viewfinder for the P4k "Blackeye". I'm about a month away for production. I'm trying to work out a few minor issues with the lens as it has a High eyepoint diopter adjustment +- glass eyepiece. I will be sending out a few for reviews shortly.


Any news about your product?

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rick.lang

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostMon Sep 02, 2019 12:12 am

Well, the product name is great.


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ricardo marty

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostSun Sep 08, 2019 5:05 pm

No answer. hopefully he is busy working on this project or on a gig.


Ricardo Marty
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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed Sep 11, 2019 10:38 am

The summer was really busy, I finally had some time for this project. This is the version we will send for first testers. The sun cover has been improved, there is additional support for Arca Swiss plate.



If there is interest there will be many versions, for different gages, with battery, with attachment for SSD etc. but you need to print them your self. We will make an assessory bag that provides, lens, magnets screws etc.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed Sep 11, 2019 3:33 pm

Count me in when the're ready Kim.
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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostWed Sep 11, 2019 9:10 pm

Kim Janson wrote:The summer was really busy, I finally had some time for this project. This is the version we will send for first testers. The sun cover has been improved, there is additional support for Arca Swiss plate.



If there is interest there will be many versions, for different gages, with battery, with attachment for SSD etc. but you need to print them your self. We will make an assessory bag that provides, lens, magnets screws etc.


Its sounds great for many and your product seems good but id rather buy it done or almost done. I think Filmboy seems to be thinking in a finished product. I definitely won't buy a 3d printer nor do I know of any such service. I know it would probably be more expensive so let's see.

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Kim Janson

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostThu Sep 12, 2019 1:15 pm

The beauty of 3D printing is that yesterday this was an idea, now I can test how it feels, and yes, there will be few small changes, but this should be nice, should provide 2+ hours operational time.

IMG_5050.jpg
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IMG_5046.jpg
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This is great for prototyping, but 3D printing makes possible also to have many different version, so something that fits perfectly your needs.

This kind of loupe is quite ideal for 3D printing, the DIY pack (lenses, magnets, screws etc.) can be send as a letter, and the printing material does not cost much.

There is many public places where it is free to 3D print (in Finland at lest)

I understand though perfectly that 3D printing / DIY is not for every one, it is great there will be alternatives.

For us this is a test project, we will be selling the DIY pack. If that provides enough income we will keep developing the loupe, version for different cages etc. also for Video Assist etc. and provide the printable files for anyone to print.

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ricardo marty

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostThu Sep 12, 2019 2:14 pm

Kim Janson wrote:The beauty of 3D printing is that yesterday this was an idea, now I can test how it feels, and yes, there will be few small changes, but this should be nice, should provide 2+ hours operational time.

IMG_5050.jpg


IMG_5047.jpg


Great idea. I think you should place it on left side to counter balance.

Ricardo Marty

IMG_5046.jpg


This is great for prototyping, but 3D printing makes possible also to have many different version, so something that fits perfectly your needs.

This kind of loupe is quite ideal for 3D printing, the DIY pack (lenses, magnets, screws etc.) can be send as a letter, and the printing material does not cost much.

There is many public places where it is free to 3D print (in Finland at lest)

I understand though perfectly that 3D printing / DIY is not for every one, it is great there will be alternatives.

For us this is a test project, we will be selling the DIY pack. If that provides enough income we will keep developing the loupe, version for different cages etc. also for Video Assist etc. and provide the printable files for anyone to print.

Resolve 15.2,Abelton,Focusrite, Adobe cs/6, Cinegy extreme.
Inspiron 5675 1800x 8/16 core, Radeon RX580/8,16 gb ram, 512 sd, 500 samsung Pro ssd.
Lenovo Y520, Quad 1777hq,NV1059/6,16gb ram,512 nvme sd, 1tb samsung evo pr
Sony FS700R, Bmp 4k,
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Phil999

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostThu Sep 12, 2019 5:16 pm

very impressive. A loupe for the Pocket cameras is a good idea. Handheld footage will become much more stable.
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: About a viewfinder for P4K ?

PostThu Sep 12, 2019 7:00 pm

Kim Janson wrote:I understand, I saw your rig on some other post.

However, I find this prety good for a very simple rig. It provides very good visibility on the screen and 3rd support point from the head when shooting. The camera buttons come easy to use blindly after some practise, everything is nicely acessible without taking eye from the loupe.



Touch screen needs to be operated only when accessing the camera menu, not needed during normal shooting. The loupe provides access to the touch screen when needed.


Looking good, Kim! Keep us up to date! Cheers.
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