Edit Page: Still no Ease Out/Ease In Position keyframes?

Unfortunatally i had to switch back to DR15. The speed with NON Fuision footage droped dramaticallly (i posted it here viewtopic.php?f=21&t=88932 )
And it's another issue. For 3d animation i use Blender 3d. I don't know why but almost everything in Blender is way out convenient, customizable, contollable and smooth. Just look as an example and pay attention how easy it is to create a new window of any size. How easy it is to work there using G (grab) or S (scale) or R (rotate) keybord buttons with left hand and move mouse with right hand. Hit G - move. Hit S - move. Hit R - move. Which means once you selected keyframes you don't need to hover the mouse over a particular place but simply press G or S or R and move your mouse in desired direction regarless where it was when you pressed G/S/R.

and here

Just as a comparison here we have a simple issue that after more than 200 views i nad no answer. It looks like it's not desinged to be ajusted. viewtopic.php?f=21&t=88696. Thoug you CAN do it in Fusion. And there IS a proper Ease In/Out in Fusion. But if you scale or translate something in Fusion you have to resize and move all your Power windows in Color page. Let alone why i should split clip and then use Fusion for basic transitions at all? WHY?
And here are my feelings. I see a tilt to Fusion by means of basic editing capabilities. Ones again, it's my experience. And i don't like it. I think it'd be more appropriate to polish (or fix?) the basic things first and than move on with extra features. At the moment i can not use DR16 because clips that played smooth without proxy mode in DR15 play twice slower at 1/4 proxy in DR16 and i always see "GPU is full" warning. And maybe it's better for Fusion. But...
But if Fusion is by means of basic editing things i'd prefer Fision separate. Or not Fusion at all. Sorry. The reason why i don't use Blender as NLE is because even though you can do it, it's not designed for that. But DR is designed for that. Or it is not?

A simple right click on the keyframe>Ease In/Out option is what's needed and wanted here.

You mean like this?

Screen Shot 2018-08-19 at 6.29.19 pm.png

This implementation is what I would like the most. That you have an image on the screen and there is a path that you can move. Similar to After Effects. I think it works really well.

Andreas

You mean like this?

Screen Shot 2018-08-19 at 6.29.19 pm.png

Sorry but i can not see the screen shot.

A simple right click on the keyframe>Ease In/Out option is what's needed and wanted here.

It is already there. If you can not do it in keyframe editor you can do it in viewport.
More than that, you can do it in keyframe editor if you want. The thing is that there's no Ease In/OUT option for the first and the last keyframes ONLY(guess WHY).

1-st_keyframe.png (9.54 KiB) Viewed 42068 times

If you copy the desired keyframe (lets call it #1) and move it to the left (let's call a duplicate #0), and than rightclick on keyframe #1 again, you will see the oprion

2-nd_keyframe.png (10.74 KiB) Viewed 42068 times

BUT... It "works" just as i had discribed in the posts above. Which means doesn't work. And that's why (as i think) they made it impossible for the first and the last keyframes. They are AWARE.
More than that, they made it possible in DR16, BUT... You can read my post above (here and next viewtopic.php?f=21&t=77981#p496063) about the way it works. And it's sad, because it lookes like it was done just to check the box. Very SAD.
More than that, if you use additional keyframes (like on the second ScreenShot) and try than pull the bezier handle you'll see how at some point transition instead of going from left to right will go first to the left, than change direction, return back to original place and than will go to the desired direction. Then you try to get the point where it doesn't start in the opposite diration. And when you sort of ("sort of" describes how controllable it is), so when you sort of find this point you discover that it is not Ease start anyway... If your transition is both X and Y it starts drawing any path but straight line. If you use zoom animation at the same time you can laugh or cry looking at the results but never use it.
And it's been like this for years. How long else? Is the program a toy for programmers or an instrument for users (i'm talkhing ONLY about this issue, not about other stuff and not in general!)? So far i see the programmers just check/uncheck the box.
Emotional? YES. But 1) i am a human and 2) i need to work and not to knock and knock and knock... I payed the money and i killed tones of time reading and experimenting and knocking. IT IS NOT WORKABLE. Or if it is, explain me how. And i'm not about the color of some pictogram, i'm about BASIC feature. I'm about those things, that are declared in manual as they are (and should work). And i understand those who after using any other NLE soft try Ease in DR for the first time, and they say "i can not belive". Since it IS UNBELIVABLE. Yet it does exist.
I sent an email with this issue (maybe a month ago or so). No answer. If i knew that they work on it (just a reply via email, or here) i'd just wait - no problem. Instead i saw them to throw a bone (that's my feeling) the way they made it in DR16 and checked the box. What i should think? What will be next? Is there end?
Fusion is now integrated. Good. There's a proper Ease In/OUT there - fine. But i prefer to stay on the ground fist. Is the Edit page NLE or an attachment to Fusion? Simple question, more than 200 views - no answer viewtopic.php?f=21&t=88696. Can you use a speedometer of a car if it's range 0-1000 mPh?
Even though i'm very loyal to DR and i like it in general, even though i see they do really many things, as for the Ease IN/OUT, it's UNCHECKED. And if you let us know that you work on it - we'd appreciate it VERY VERY MUCH.
Thank you.

I've been waiting for v16 release to see if the problem solved. And it is NOT.

What is done is a fake. Just see.
Fig01. This is the default settings (just animation added). Start key frame is read (marked), and it is liner mode (marked with blue circle). The right border of the image in the viewport is aligned with cursor (yellow line as a reference). Now look at the graph line and notice that it is not straight at all (it must be a straight line connecting the key frames). Let's remember it.

01_Default.PNG (33.22 KiB) Viewed 41868 times

Fig02. Now we switch line mode to ease out. We see that the handle appeared, we see that the angle of curve changed - but there's no any effect in the viewport. What is also interesting that the angle of the graph line looked more smooth at liner mode comparing to ease mode. But as i said it doesn't make any difference anyway (the image border in the viewport will always stay straight above the cursor).

02_CurveSwitch.PNG (26.26 KiB) Viewed 41868 times

Fig03. Let's play with the handle. This is the max right position of the handle (there's limit). If you align the angle with horizon you'll still get no changes. If you move it down below horizon the transition will start at the opposite direction and then returns. And it's all far from being ease. If you move the handle up there will be no any changes untill you align the handle with the graph curve and only after that it'll effect (it'll become more abrupt at the start).

03_CurveAdjust_01.PNG (26.04 KiB) Viewed 41868 times

So what do we have? All that we had years before. Is it ease in/out? Obviously not. And the worst thing about all that is that they LIE. They say YOU HAVE EASE IN/OUT when you don't have it. And they DO know about that. I just imagine how hard they tried to make interface "working" so that you could play with handles and curves while whole item is not working! Creative!!!
Shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you try if it is better in 16.1? They claim it has been improved.

Best,
Andreas

BMD responded here: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=92986

This sets me back to After Effects. Coming from there, i am surpriesed how inaccurate the bezier handles are.
Basicly there is only the right click option -> easy in / easy out. Everything else, like very smooth dampering is not possible.
Would realy like to see a AEish solution to handle the x/y positions.
BUMP that topic.

+1
This is driving me nuts.
After the first few minutes in DR I needed to keyframe the position of a clip, combined with a zoom. Couldn't get it to work. After reading all posts about this topic in this forum, I've decided to give up. This is such a standard feature.
I wanted to switch to Davinci Resolve this year, but I know that this missing feature alone will give me massive headaches in the future. (Like Premiere Pro gives me right now with crashes and other bugs)
PLEASE implement a proper way of actually Ease Out/Ease In position keyframes.

I'll stick to Premiere Pro for now, which I really hate. But going into Fusion or creating an XMP file and doing it in Premiere for every single clip that needs position keyframing is just no option. I hope this gets implemented / fixed in the near future.

It's a joke! DR is full of "features" that simply don't work, and this "position easing bug" is just one of them.
This bug extends even to "Dynamic zoom":
Using it with Ease In, Out, or Both, it eases only Scale but not Position (try moving one of control rectangles out of center). As a result - you get an "S" style movement instead of speed easing.

I REALY like Resolve (as an Idea, Concept) and manage to overcome current bugs (by not using those features), but lets face it - Adobe Premiere (as crapy as it is) is miles ahead in terms of reliability. It just works where it should. No bugs of that kind (during 10 years).

Has this been improved in 16.1.1?
I remember when FCPX was released I had lots of problems with curves, but Premiere always was good, maybe a bit uggly interface for curves but you could always do what you wanted. In general I'm not so happy with Resolves curves. Especially tricky to do movement so they work well and as we seen ease in/out does not work well.

Another thing I miss is that not everything supports curves, for example plugins seem to have support for keyframes but no curves. I'm also not sure sure if it was really a good idea to put the curves on the timeline, so you have to expand and collapse them, Imagine you need to animate the opacity for 80 clips, that is going to be painful with just expanding, minimizing and switching between the animated properties, while this would be quite fast in AE or Fusion.
I do miss a a real curve editor just like we have in Fusion FX or After Effects where the only thing you see are the curves. Often when we work with curves I need big windows so I can see properly because the setup may need precision.

On a positive note we have switched over almost exlusively to using Fusion FX (standalone) instead of After Effects. Still learning, so its a bit slower, but once you figure out how to do something you get a very beautiful solution that you can easily reuse. In After Effects we would get a complicated mess of precomps which was not fun to work with.

Cheers,
Andreas

I've given up trying to setup position and scale moves in the Edit page. It's better to make position and scale moves in the sizing controls of the Color page instead. You can set key frames and adjust the key frame dynamics (accessible by right clicking on the key frames) to get proper adjustable ease in/ease out. An additional benefit to working this way is that it is far easier to adjust Color page sizing control keyframes than the clunky keyframe curve editor on the Edit page.

That is a good tip Jamie, I will try that

The missing of the ease-in/-out of the position keyframes on timeline editor is a big disappointment!

You ask yourself, why do you learn the software more deeply if none of these basic functions aren't properly implemented, what's next!?

The first post is one year old!!!

I agree... kind of a bizarre omission to a professional editor. Hopefully they are completely redesigning the keyframe editor.

The feature isn't missing. It's just...broken.

correct!

I guess 'broken' is just an other word for 'missing' in this case. It never worked.
Please Blackmagic, implement Easing for position keyframes

It never worked.

It actually worked great in 16b4, at least from the Inspector (which is the easy way).

But there were issues getting it to work from the Keyframe Editor (which to my thinking is more difficult and not necessary so long as it works from the Inspector), so BMD 'broke' it again in 16b5 and it's remained broken ever since.

It never worked.

It actually worked great in 16b4, at least from the Inspector (which is the easy way).

I didn't know that. Sorry in that case.

It's better to make position and scale moves in the sizing controls of the Color page instead. You can set key frames and adjust the key frame dynamics (accessible by right clicking on the key frames) to get proper adjustable ease in/ease out.

Are you editing the input, output or node sizing controls?
I'm sorry, I'm fairly new to DR and I can't get easing position keyframes to work.

16.1.2 - Position easing still not working in Edit page. What a shame!!!

+1 Again for this.
Please BM just port the key framing from fusion to the edit page.

We still don't have the separate Ease In and Ease Out options either.

Soooo... Any news on this one?

This is really frustrating and time consuming

Soooo... Any news on this one?

This is really frustrating and time consuming

No news until a new version is released.

Besides a working feature, I just miss some kind of acknowledgement. This is obviously not working for a long time now, and yet it is still happily being promoted on the website. This is just one example. It takes away credibility

Can't believe it. Still not fixed in 16.2 ...

Can't believe it. Still not fixed in 16.2 ...

That is too bad. I animate positions a lot

+1
I don not understand why this is not yet fixed by BMD. So frustrating...

Why is this not fixed yet? Amateur!

Is there a feature request page I can drop my two cents on? This is a huggle niggle for me. That X and Y have to be edited in a very inexact interface is nuts. Why not X *AND* Y?

It's spring 2020. This is a basic "an of course you can" function (not even a feature). That it's still not in DR at 16.2.1 is a bit surreal. (I do a ton of Ken Burns-y DVE for projects I work on (archives). The unyoked XY curve thing has been the bane of many unnecessarily long edit sessions.

You can request new features below.

viewforum.php?f=33

Is there a feature request page I can drop my two cents on? This is a huggle niggle for me. That X and Y have to be edited in a very inexact interface is nuts. Why not X *AND* Y?

It's spring 2020. This is a basic "an of course you can" function (not even a feature). That it's still not in DR at 16.2.1 is a bit surreal. (I do a ton of Ken Burns-y DVE for projects I work on (archives). The unyoked XY curve thing has been the bane of many unnecessarily long edit sessions.

It's become very obvious that implementing this in any precision way is very difficult for reasons we non-BM programmer types will likely never know. HOWEVER it can be very well accomplished in the fusion page. I just wish that BM would take the linear transform applied in the edit page into the Fusion comp transform. Then it would be a simple matter of applying and adjusting the in and out splines in the spline editor...

It's become very obvious that implementing this in any precision way is very difficult

I'm not convinced of that. It worked great in 16 Beta 4. Got broke in Beta 5 and has remained broke ever since.

It's become very obvious that implementing this in any precision way is very difficult

I'm not convinced of that. It worked great in 16 Beta 4. Got broke in Beta 5 and has remained broke ever since.

I only checked once or twice during the beta and it looked like it was implemented but I couldn't see much of an effect. To your point: maybe, if it was working in one drop, it broke something else, or the fix couldn't be carried forward for some reason. For me, with that narrow keyframe window in the timeline, I didn't think there would be much control, therefore my trip to Fusion.

Please, for the love of all that is holy in this realm, fix this.

I fight with this everyday and is about the only thing I regret since switching to a full BMD workflow and getting off the Adobe crack pipe.

+1
The current implementation of the position Ease functionality is not "in sync" with the easing of the zoom and therefore unusable.
Today I start editing a video containing over 300 images that need zoom + pan + tilt in sync.

Zooming, panning and tilting all 300+ images in Fusion is a major inconvenience.

+1
The current implementation of the position Ease functionality is not "in sync" with the easing of the zoom and therefore unusable.
Today I start editing a video containing over 300 images that need zoom + pan + tilt in sync.

Zooming, panning and tilting all 300+ images in Fusion is a major inconvenience.

It is VERY perplexing that this most basic issue is not fixed.

+1 super vital to get this sorted. It drives me nuts almost every day. Makes the transform controls in inspector/timeline generally unusable, which is a great shame.

I hope this doesn't become an issue like the jumping of numeric values in the inspector box -- an issue that took over three whole versions to get fixed and infuriated users for *years* in the meantime. :-/

I have been waiting for this to be fixed since version 9. That's seven versions without it being fixed.

Really glad they finally fixed the jumping numeric values but this long standing issue is really strange. Must be impossible to fix without re-coding something big. Why else would they leave such a glaring problem for so long?

They claim to have added the feature and you can select all the correct options but all movement is still linear. Smooth keyframing has been around since the very first dedicated effects boxes were available like Ampex ADO, Abekas Quantel etc. EVERY other hardware or software I have used has this feature. It can't be too hard as it's a standard feature, and has been for over 30 years!

There actually is a temporal smoothing feature in the edit page that works.
Turn on Transform overlay in viewer. Right click smooth. Now little round dot handle appears to adjust temporal smoothing, in addition to position Bezier handles.
Not sure if that old news, just thought to mention it.
It's less than wonderful but it works.

The temporal smoothing is a very poor option too! It's almost impossible to control simple movements.

As described in my post higher up the thread, you can get proper ease in/ease out moves by using keyframes on the sizing controls in the Color Page. Not only does this deliver better results, the keyframe control on the Color Page is much less cumbersome than on the Edit Page.

with that narrow keyframe window in the timeline

To my thinking, that's not relevant. You can do that in Fusion if you want that kind of control.

This feature needs to work via the Inspector, with a simple click. That should be the focus here. Simplicity. That is what worked in Beta 4, and never again.

A 3D movement has 4 dimensions, position and time. It is challenging to make that real simple and easy to control with curve graphs. Fusion has a path/time curve - but its not really simple to use. Let's hope BM comes up with something ingenious.

AFAIK, easing in fusion works fine. It's easing on the edit timeline that is fudged. That's a 2d environment. It shouldn't be as complicated as you've described it.

To use Fusion to animate a move on a still:

1 Take the clip to the Fusion page
2 Add a transform and a crop tool
3 Adjust the crop to your timeline res so you can frame the move
4 In the transform tool add position and zoom keyframes for both your start move and stop move
5 Open the Keyframe editor and select your position and zoom
6 Open the Spline editor & click on the Zoom to Fit button to show all keyframes (Near the top rightof the Keyframe Editor)
7 Lasso the start and stop keyframes for both position and zoom
8 Click on the smooth button (bottom Left of the Keyframe Editor)

Both position and zoom now have matching ease in and outs.

If you need, adjust the beziers for timing