4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

6K? Why not! After we thought this thread had finally been put to rest, it may have new life thanks to 6K. No official update on the turret for months.


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[quote="rick.lang"]6K? Why not! After we thought this thread had finally been put to rest, it may have new life thanks to 6K. No official update on the turret for months.


If Blackmagic is a company that stands by its promise, it should do so.

If they manage to make a firmware to support the new sensor and the old hardware this is a great opportunity to prove that they are not letting down their customers.
I hope they add a support for interchangeable lens mounts like mini pro to the new turret.

6K would be nice to have but there is not enough available workspace to shoehorn the existing 6K electronic hardware into the turret workspace to retain short sensor data runs without significantly remanufacturing the big URSA body. That simply will not happen.

The original turret sees to have been a split and folded BMPC4K with a distant motherboard supporting more robust peripherals mostly hard-connected via permanent ribbon cables. I suspect that the higher data loads of 6K demand that the data runs from the sensor are even shorter than for the old Cmosis-styled 4K sensor of the original 4K, big URSA and first URSA Mini.

I hope the guys who pull their turrets out for a looksee, take the trouble to rehabilitate the parted thermal transfer material. If they go faithbased and just shove it back in, it may become roasties time for the sensor otherwise. I think some of the sensor failures may be related to heat stress from the firm-setting thermal material parting from metal faces during the violence of shipping.

If I end up getting another "big" URSA, the first cab off the rank will be rehabilitating that thermal junction before anything gets switched on.

Checking the battery mount on the back for pinched wires will be second.

Whilst the turret is out, checking for looseness of the heatsink spurs through the mainboard heatsink slab will be third. If the cooler radiator heatsink spurs are loose, then the soft thermal paste may have slumped away from conductive surfaces and may fail the pair of Xilinx processors.

Hopefully then it will live long and prosper. Otherwise, I have to buy new memory to suit another camera type and remake custom accessories I have built for the URSA.

Hi,iam planning to buy a sparingly used URSA 4k V2 version out of passion!, how can I find whether it's v1 or V2 from the serial number? also date of manufacture from the serial number, regards ashok

Hi,iam planning to buy a sparingly used URSA 4k V2 version out of passion!, how can I find whether it's v1 or V2 from the serial number? also date of manufacture from the serial number, regards ashok

If I recall it, the V1 only goes to 80fps while the V2 goes to 120 or 150fps in 1080.

I know it, but how can we know that from serial number as iam planning to buy V2 sensor

???

There is no way to tell by serial number.

You can ask the seller ? Or ask them what the maximum frame rate is ?

JB

That would be interesting, the Ursa V2 is a great camera. We use ours for chroma key shooting, very forgiving, great image.
Cheers

Dennis, how can we know that URSA is with v1 sensor or V2 sensor? from the serial number possible? Seller don't know! it's serial number is 2221598, early reply expected regards Dr ashok

Ask what the top frame rate is in raw.

V1 went to 80fps, the v2 went to 120fps

That’s full frame not windowed. In windowed mode I believe they both went to 150fps

6K would be nice to have but there is not enough available workspace to shoehorn the existing 6K electronic hardware into the turret workspace to retain short sensor data runs without significantly remanufacturing the big URSA body. That simply will not happen.

The original turret sees to have been a split and folded BMPC4K with a distant motherboard supporting more robust peripherals mostly hard-connected via permanent ribbon cables. I suspect that the higher data loads of 6K demand that the data runs from the sensor are even shorter than for the old Cmosis-styled 4K sensor of the original 4K, big URSA and first URSA Mini.

I hope the guys who pull their turrets out for a looksee, take the trouble to rehabilitate the parted thermal transfer material. If they go faithbased and just shove it back in, it may become roasties time for the sensor otherwise. I think some of the sensor failures may be related to heat stress from the firm-setting thermal material parting from metal faces during the violence of shipping.

If I end up getting another "big" URSA, the first cab off the rank will be rehabilitating that thermal junction before anything gets switched on.

Checking the battery mount on the back for pinched wires will be second.

Whilst the turret is out, checking for looseness of the heatsink spurs through the mainboard heatsink slab will be third. If the cooler radiator heatsink spurs are loose, then the soft thermal paste may have slumped away from conductive surfaces and may fail the pair of Xilinx processors.

Hopefully then it will live long and prosper. Otherwise, I have to buy new memory to suit another camera type and remake custom accessories I have built for the URSA.

In this context my request to great Grant Pretty is at least he can make a FULL FRAME 4K TURRET for the Ursa 4k and keep his words! I don't think that that much hardware modifications needed as the Ursa major 4 k was made for introducing new turret and its have unique features like LIQUID COOLED engine,3 monitors ,4x3G out put,DC out etc!!! At least the numbers of person attending this tread will reflect , the AMBISITiON behind for a new TURRET! And this is the prime time he can do it as he released the Black magic design legend URSA MINI PRO 12K now!!!

its never gonna happen thats a bitter truth we must accept

No he will keep his words,GRANT PRETTY is bold

No he will keep his words,GRANT PRETTY is bold

its been 4years man give up already... they wont resume ursa major production as they closed that department.. those who purchased ursa original would be now near expiry date already

The two "Black Holes" that are The infamous "Turret upgrade" and the new kid on the block " Ursa Mini 4.6k Braw firmware update"

Hahaha. It Kills me every time I see these two threads
Being brought back from the dead. Hahaha.
Lost souls man. Lost souls.

D.

This Hollywood movie Revelator released on 2017 was fully shot on black magic Ursa major 4 k camera

Also this Free Solo on 2018 was also shot on black magic Ursa major 4 k camera!

And in the aspects of cinimatography both in the technical and aesthetically this Ursa 4k,is excellent and comparable to its rivals,then why they discontinued prematurely!!!?

And in the aspects of cinimatography both in the technical and aesthetically this Ursa 4k,is excellent and comparable to its rivals,then why they discontinued prematurely!!!?

I used to have this camera and shot a few shorts and a mini-feature with it. I really love it and you should have seen folks head turn when I brought it to the set during its hay days. It was discontinued because of poor sales and the mini got more of the attention for those looking at a more compact one man camera system.

Then sir, what is the meaning of this longest tread involving thousands of Ursa major 4 k FANS!?, still in used market it sells for 3000 -4000 USD! BMD should re introduce it. If the size and weight is the problem, certain models of ARRI Alexa is more heavy with minimum acceries!, people still love URSA major 4 k!

And in a similar way , Sony Venice also copied now what black magic design has done 6years back on its URSA, 'REPLACEBLE TURRET'!!!

people still love URSA major 4 k!

They they both must accept that:
1. they rely on a camera which was a dead birth from the very beginning
2. it is stupid to rely on any promises from BMD and on any updates for products older then 1 year

Then sir, what is the meaning of this longest tread involving thousands of Ursa major 4 k FANS!

Well, this thread is over many years long and I believe most have already move on and bought into the UMP. Some may sill have it and just trying to get rid of it. It was the most contentious protest for the promised Turret but when BMD gave them the option to upgrade to the UMP, the protest diminished and when it finally lost traction, then the story ended. Well, until you resurrected the thread. But I say it's kind of a lost cause and very late. I thought I fought a good fight like many others but I gave it and move on with the UMP, which for what it is worth, was actually a good thing. The UMP is a sweet replacement.

If the size and weight is the problem, certain models of ARRI Alexa is more heavy with minimum acceries!

Ah, but it is not an ARRI Alexa.

people still love URSA major 4 k!

:
2. it is stupid to rely on any promises from BMD and on any updates for products older then 1 year

It's not stupid but we should not rely on any promises from BMD either. However, I disagree on the premise that we cannot expect support of any updates for products that are just 1 year old. In fact, owners should be confident that their investment has a lifespan of 5 years of which 3 years will be supported with parts and updates, and 1 year of replacement/repair warranty. That's just for any company that will do the right thing especially with a loyal following.

Yes what u told is Wright,Ursa MINI pro, everything MINIMUM,a kind of compramise!

I have rambled on about such previously related to 6K. If BM for some insane reason managed to make a retrofit kit for the 12K sensor and processing chain for the big URSA, I would be seriously interested.

It is unlikely. The least costly method would be to make an insert from the front which would do away with the removable structure within the big URSA body. By the time all the replacement pieces including whatever heat management system they use for the UMP form, and probably a replacement left side panel to relocate the CFast slots to the rear, there would be so much from the original URSA which would forever be in a cardboard box thereafter, that one would be better served by simply going the 12K route in the Mini Pro form and be done with it.

The least costly method would be to make an insert from the front which would do away with the removable structure within the big URSA body. By the time all the replacement pieces including whatever heat management system they use for the UMP form, and probably a replacement left side panel to relocate the CFast slots to the rear, there would be so much from the original URSA which would forever be in a cardboard box thereafter, that one would be better served by simply going the 12K route in the Mini Pro form and be done with it.

The least costly method would be to sell an "extended" turret. To upgrade simply open the box, remove the 12K UMP, toss the Ursa in the bin, and you are done.

Who's up for the vexatious mischief of a zombie thread. In truth, to hanker after the prospect of a more than 4K "big" URSA form is folly. That poor hound took a bait long ago and is beyond revival.

Gene Konchalowski. QUOTE: "The least costly method would be to sell an "extended" turret. To upgrade simply open the box, remove the 12K UMP, toss the Ursa in the bin, and you are done."

There are a few little wrinkles with tossing the original "big" (heavy) URSA.

1. Hoiking a "big" URSA up over the edge of the bin whilst holding the lid open will seriously do my geriatric back in. It may prolapse the right upper arm muscle and ruin the right shoulder rotator cuff for good measure.

2. When it lobs down, it will punch the arse clean out of the bottom of the wheelie bin, may pop one or both wheels off or make the axle go bow-legged.

3. The concussion may stun and even kill the earthworms gathered in a commune under the bin's floor in the subsoil and set off the near-neighbour's amateur seismograph.

Then I will be down done council bin which I will have to pay for.

I have pulled a big Ursa 4K, Ursa Mini Pro 4.6K and URSA Mini Pro to bits to rebuild working cameras out of several variously injured specimens.

I have some hope that a clean sheet Gen 3 body/chassis for a future digital cinema camera will be carefully evolved from lessons learnt, choosing the best attributes of the two styles, using the existing Mini Pro 4.6K and 12K guts.

If only I had the entrepeneural courage to pull on something like the BM venture and yet stay whole in body, mind, motivation and sanity.

If only I had the entrepeneural courage to pull on something like the BM venture and yet stay whole in body, mind, motivation and sanity.

Robert I wonder what kind of motivation you may have for doing paid repairs on and resale of digital cinema cameras?

You remind me of Sherry Krauter in the US where I had sent in my Leica CL for repair. She also sells Leica cameras which she may have some hand in repairing prior: http://www.sherrykrauter.com/store

I'm hoping to get several more years of use out of the URSA 4K & 4.6K sensors for the look that they have separate from the newer models.

Ryan.


I have the utmost respect for people who start innovative enterprises like BM with all the regulatory hoops they have to negotiate and the ever-present risk of market failure due to an unexpected competing product or an achilles heel in one's own betraying unexpectedly.

It must have broken the hearts of the JVC engineers when their ProHD camera family developed the notorious split-screen defect.

The big URSA I have went faulty over one winter and failed to wake up. I made one out of two. The URSA Mini 4.6K repair using two failed cameras was to create an affordable camera for my own use.

My original scheme had been to transplant the URSA Mini 4.6K guts into the spare "big" URSA case with hope of keeping the big screen. There are too any differences in PCB dimensions and ribbon cable runs to sockets which would have required altering the body. Losing the big screen kind of dismissed the point of doing it.

I was a bit heartbroken that the camera with the destroyed casework was not a Mini Pro like the donor camera which was damaged differently from a fall. Fortunately the connections in the most severely damaged camera had only been disrupted by the damage and it was good electronically.

If I was to factor in my own personal labour cost, it would probably be cheaper to buy good examples off eBay. The benefit of roaming around inside a broken one is to learn how best to take future care of it.

It would not be viable for me to repair and resell. You can never really have confidence to use a camera commercially once it has been taken apart on a kitchen table instead of a clean room on a padded bench.

I can fairly well spot the ones which can be fixed. The vendors on eBay have usually been pretty good at giving me a rundown on how the "for parts only" cameras have died.

Camera death seems to be most often a failure for the system to wake though the power management times on and times off again when the power button or upper toggle switch is operated.

Unless one has the knowing of modern electronics which I do not, or a service manual and diagrams to follow, that is about where it ends.

One can find example circuits and companion parts for the Xilinx processors and sensors. However BM keeps its more developed secrets well hid for good reasons, not the least being some other outfit may rip off their particular implentations.

To conserve your URSA 4K, try to store it in conditions where freezing temperatures are not present, temperatures of 40 degrees celsius are not present and humidity is no lower than 30%. Put a battery on it no less frequently than fortnightly and switch it on for just a few minutes to restore the memory capacitor and hopefully keep any suspect joints active.

There is some contention that thermal cycles from powering on and off may shorten the life of suspect solder joints so you might have to do you own due diligence on that subject.

The turret of a big URSA should not be removed for a looksee unless you already have the correct thermal bonding material to replace what becomes waste. The mainboard on the "big" URSA 4K has two Xilinx processors with both being thermally bonded to a solid piece of aluminium casework by grey pads with double-sided adhesive.

The massive case of the "big" URSA absorbs a lot of heat from the processor before it is passed on the a radiator via some heat pipes embedded in the centre spine of the casework. The "big" URSA body should be sheltered from picking up heat from direct sunlight falling on it and heatsoaking the aluminium mass faster than the radiator can cool it. The side-screens don't like it much either.

The fan on my "Big" URSA had become jammed by a loose piece of hardened thermal paste. That may have been what saw the sensor off. How it got in there is anyone's guess.

I don't know how the URSA Mini 4K is set up but I suspect it will be similar to the URSA Mini 4.6K with a single Xilinx processor. Cooling is directly by heatpipes embedded in thermal paste held against the processor and leading to a small radiator mounted horizontally in the upper space.

There is very little solid aluminium mass to draw heat passively from the processor. The cooling depends entirely on the ability of the heatpipes and radiator to pass heat to airflow. The Mini may be less vulnerable to heatsoaking by direct sunlight on the camera body although this should still be avoided.

Airflow through the radiators for the sensor and for the processor should be protected from obstruction of the lower and upper vents. The fan should be checked to see if it is turning. The right side of the upper vent seems to pass hotter air than the left. The upper and lower vents and accessory mounting spines are shaped so that obstruction of the vents is minimised.

Care should be taken that third-party accessories like cages and cheeseplates do not mask off the airflow at the bottom or at the top. Lots of boltholes in closefitting wide cheesplates across the top or the bottom do not count as good ventilation. The Xilinx processors make a lot of heat which the system has to extract. If the core reaches 170 degrees, they die.

Heavy bumps and rough-handling like setting URSA Mini cameras down hard on benchtops or clouting doorframes should be avoided. When fitting up a V-mount or AB gold mount battery, do it gently in one one single movement with as less of an impact when it seats home as you can manage. The release latches sometimes do not spring out. Hooking them out with a finger end is better than hard-slamming the battery home.

Do not slam the battery back and forth a few times to make the latch eventually click. Rapidfire interruptions of the battery connections are not helpful to soft-switched circuits. The mechanical shock of the heavy batteries slamming home like a shotgun slide may be a satisfying physical and aural sensation but is not helpful either.

Try to avoid the same shotgun thing when offering the camera on to Sony VCT or Panasonic SHAN tripod plates. Be sure that it latches but try not to slam it. The mass of a heavy cine lens and the mass of the battery on the back of the camera body will do things to the casework which are not nice when firm impacts occur.

This is not my recommendation just for the BM URSA Mini body family but for other brands as well. In the race for lightness and ease of handling, they are not as strong as they may seem to be.

The URSA has officially been documented as an Abandoned Camera in a new video series:

The URSA has officially been documented as an Abandoned Camera in a new video series:

Interesting. I tried to post some ahhh corrections in the comments but the post doesn’t seem to be there.

JB

The URSA has officially been documented as an Abandoned Camera in a new video series:

Interesting. I tried to post some ahhh corrections in the comments but the post doesn’t seem to be there.

JB

Really? Huh, I was able to comment. Mainly want to see them next cover the 28K RED Sensor announced in 2010, the AJA Cion, Digital Bolex, Also, and Arri D21.

Well yeah, Cion in particular truly is an orphan that’s been abandoned.

There’s a bunch of stuff that’s just factually incorrect and is basically guessing / pinion presented as truth.

It’s fine to push out a clickbait piece like this, but it’s kind of disappointing that it’s presenting as factual rather than editorial opinion.

JB

Well yeah, Cion in particular truly is an orphan that’s been abandoned.

There’s a bunch of stuff that’s just factually incorrect and is basically guessing / pinion presented as truth.

It’s fine to push out a clickbait piece like this, but it’s kind of disappointing that it’s presenting as factual rather than editorial opinion.

JB

A lot of these videos seem to always have incorrect information. I mainly watched it for the entertainment and for going down that memory lane. I’m very impressed how far Blackmagic Design has come with their cameras.

Is this Clickbait? You bet! But I think it could be a fun series as long as they focus on some of the other cameras that have truly been abandoned. Things like Cion.

I can’t wait for the next Blackmagic Camera. My G2 still works great, and I’m impressed with the 12K. So definitely getting the next version.


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In 2014 I did a crowdfunding for Axiom project a modular camera, but never worked.
At today 2022, they never release a simple camera like first bmcc, tons of a wasted alpha cameras that stop to work during shooting for heat or many others reasons… never reach a real beta camera stage.
They are enthusiast engeneer that not understand what is a camera out of laboratory, they need two years to understand that a good color science is more important than a 4K sensor.
The importance of good color science against simple sensor swap, but they are only enthusiast engeneer and not color scientist).
Year by year news are rare and rare
Project dropped …
The idea is good but ability to swap a simple mount is not simple to manage the shimming and different back focus, think to entire sensor modules with many different way to manage all data’s.
I’m happy to help them, unfortunately they did too early to do that.
In a near future where cameras will have auto setup of back focus, sensor calibration managed by AI, a CameraOs that had AI to correct most of problems in post may be possibile. Today … bah


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And in a similar way , Sony Venice also copied now what black magic design has done 6years back on its URSA, 'REPLACEBLE TURRET'!!!

Uhm is not the same and is not a replaceable turret, you should send to Sony lab from what I remember, and the same is ones of red camera, and I remember a JVC broadcast that allow that from their lab, not from users.


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You can change the mount on Red cameras by yourself and it has been this way long before BM did it.

You can change the mount on Red cameras by yourself and it has been this way long before BM did it.

The mount yes but not the sensor like on the OG URSA 4k with its Turret sensor.