Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

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PaulDelVecchio

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Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostSun Apr 26, 2015 11:42 pm

Just wanted to share this with everyone. These are cheap. They usually go for $599 or so.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wise-CFast-2-0- ... 5b10c3bccc


Just watch the write times. They're about 350MB/s as opposed to the Lexars at 450MB/s.
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostMon Apr 27, 2015 12:25 am

Always good to do one's own testing, but there is a margin of safety when you elect to write to alternate cards for the higher data rates.

For example, recording ProRes 444 XQ at 60 fps requires a data rate of almost 500 MB/s. Even the Lexar 3400x cards probably can't handle that writing data rate to a single card as they only write up to 450 MB/s.

Edit: removed comment about dual card recording of 12bit ProRes HFR since that's not likely possible! Maybe BMD will clarify their solution in the future.


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Norbert Bielan

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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostMon Apr 27, 2015 3:51 am

I tried 4K/60 in XQ with the discontinued Sandisk 120GB - which was rated at 350MB/s - and it dropped frames after 10 seconds. No issues with 4K/60/444.

But this raises a good point; what if I want to record XQ @ 60fps? Do we wait for faster cards or for BM to enable dual recording for ProRes?
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostMon Apr 27, 2015 3:26 pm

Norbert, read my previous post that anticipated your question.


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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostMon Apr 27, 2015 4:13 pm

Rick, dual recording is only for RAW?
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostMon Apr 27, 2015 4:50 pm

Norbert, I think dual recording is user selectable for raw or ProRes. It wouldn't make sense to limit it to raw, because the data rates for the 12bit ProRes options (444 XQ or 444) can be quite a bit higher than raw.


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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostMon Apr 27, 2015 4:54 pm

It's not...or at least I don't see it in the menu.

The press release also just mentions RAW. I'll take another look later though:

Blackmagic Design today announced Blackmagic Camera 2.3, which is a major update for Blackmagic URSA cameras. This new software adds support for HD window mode allowing 150fps recording in 1920 x 1080 resolutions, adds support for ProRes 444 XQ, allows recording onto 2 CFast 2 cards simultaneously in RAW allowing higher frame rates in RAW and also adds support for the new V2 4K URSA image sensor which allows Ultra HD capture to 120 fps.

Edit: I do see the Dual Card Mode.
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostMon Apr 27, 2015 6:01 pm

as far as i can tell it will only work for raw sending alternate frames to different cards. This doesn't seem possible for pro rez as the files are not stored as frames but as .mov files.
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostMon Apr 27, 2015 6:25 pm

Norbert and Richard, thanks for reminding me of the wording regarding dual card raw recording. I understand the ProRes is a single file but I think I was asleep when I posted my comments about dual frame ProRes. Sorry about that, folks! So the question remains, how does BMD record ProTes for the speeds they advertise you can shoot ProRes? Maybe the 12bit ProRes flavours are not supported in higher frame rates.

Lexar 3400x can do ProRes 444 XQ 50 fps UHD, IN THEORY, 415 MB/s.

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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostMon Apr 27, 2015 6:30 pm

I am assuming faster cards will eventually come.

I will have a 128GB Lexar card tomorrow to try out 4K/60/XQ.
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostMon Apr 27, 2015 6:47 pm

That will be interesting. I know the 128 GB CFast 2 card is also rated at up to 450 MB/s, but when I buy cards, I'm probably going with the 256 GB card which may have an easier time handling 12bit HFRs. If the 128 GB cards stumble, do you have an option to return it or exchange for a 256 GB cards?


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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostMon Apr 27, 2015 6:51 pm

I assume since these cards are approved for raw @ 30fps on the BMD Support page, that also means they're capable of 3:1 80fps?
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostMon Apr 27, 2015 6:54 pm

I just rented the card.

The 128 and 256 are both at 450MB/s.

We'll see though!
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostTue Apr 28, 2015 9:04 pm

Just wanted to circle back and confirm 4K/60p/XQ drops frames after several seconds on the Lexar 128GB card.

BM - We (I) need a faster card!
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostTue Apr 28, 2015 9:33 pm

Norbert, thanks for the test. I wonder if you tried 50 fps as that should work in terms of being within the upper boundary of the larger Lexar cards' write speed.

Also the 256 GB card could actually be successful if the 128 GB card fails at 50 fps. It has been claimed that larger cards may have better performance characteristics even though the rated speeds are identical.

Don't know if you can easily check this out in the outlet that rented the 128GB card. Thanks again for your efforts!


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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostTue Apr 28, 2015 11:02 pm

rick.lang wrote:Norbert, thanks for the test. I wonder if you tried 50 fps as that should work in terms of being within the upper boundary of the larger Lexar cards' write speed.

Also the 256 GB card could actually be successful if the 128 GB card fails at 50 fps. It has been claimed that larger cards nay have better performance characteristics even though the rated speeds are identical.

Don't know if you can easily check this out in the outlet that rented the 128GB card. Thanks again for your efforts!


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I bought several Lexar 256GB cards and they have been amazingly reliable both in 4k RAW and ProRes 4444. Many many dozens of hours recorded in both formats with no dropped frames or problems. I also have 4 of the SanDisk 128GB cards and they randomly "eject" from the URSA and won't remount until they are reformatted. In other words, be wary of cheap or non-approved cards. You get what you pay for.
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostTue Apr 28, 2015 11:10 pm

Yea, they work with HFR in 444 without any issues...but try XQ in 60p and let us know if you get dropped frames.
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 12:55 am

You should be able to get 30fps with the Lexar in XQ. Beyond that i would expect dropped frames at some point.
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 1:07 am

Just out of curiosity, where can I find data rates for 4K/UHD?

In the Apple ProRes white paper, it says:

Apple ProRes 4444 XQ features a target data rate of approximately 500 Mbps for 4:4:4 sources at 1920 x 1080 and 29.97 fps.

What about UHD?
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 1:54 am

Norbert, it's in that white paper. ProRes 444 XQ UHD 60 fps 3977 Mb/s. Or about 500 MB/s.


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Devin Pense

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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 1:57 am

[/quote]I bought several Lexar 256GB cards and they have been amazingly reliable both in 4k RAW and ProRes 4444. Many many dozens of hours recorded in both formats with no dropped frames or problems. I also have 4 of the SanDisk 128GB cards and they randomly "eject" from the URSA and won't remount until they are reformatted. In other words, be wary of cheap or non-approved cards. You get what you pay for.[/quote]

Is the a known fact/trend? That the 256GB cards are faster and more reliable?
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 2:00 am

Thanks, Rick. That's a neat Appendix!
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 3:29 am

That didn't last long... back to normal price and can no longer buy on eBay.
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 1:22 pm

Ryan Hamblin wrote:That didn't last long... back to normal price and can no longer buy on eBay.


MOTHER *******!!!
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 1:40 pm

I snagged one just in time


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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 2:15 pm

I've tested the lexar and sandisk cards using the BM disk speed test app.

Write speed results are as follows:

Sandisk 128 (current version) = 270 MB/s
Lexar 128 = 260 MB/s
Lexar 256 = 355 MB/s

All of the cards read a around 425 MB/s

The cards were formatted HFS+. I formatted them in camera and with disk utility but both methods produced the same speeds. I haven't tested the Wise cards but I'm guessing they are similar to the other 128 GB cards.
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 3:16 pm

Guy, that's quite an improvement in performance for the larger 256 GB card. No question now, that's the one to buy (or rent).


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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 5:56 pm

Guy Fiorita wrote:Write speed results are as follows:

Sandisk 128 (current version) = 270 MB/s
Lexar 128 = 260 MB/s
Lexar 256 = 355 MB/s

This is very interesting. These results seem very significant in terms of higher frame rate performance. Is it worth the extra $300 to get the 256 cards? I've also heard the 256's are more reliable as far as failure rates.
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 6:40 pm

Devin, the 256 GB Lexar 3400x cards represent the lowest cost per GB and I think the better performing cards are worth the higher upfront cost personally. If they are more reliable, that's another good reason to get the best. When we've had discussions about the much large SSDs being used on the other cameras, people have cautioned about putting too much footage on one SSD in the event that the data is lost somehow. I think many people thought the 256GB SSDs were a happy compromise between price and capacity. Now on the URSA/Mini, you can record some very high data rates if you venture into HFR and ProRes 444, so these larger cards seem more practical for those needs as well.


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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 6:58 pm

Thanks for the info Rick.

btw, now that the Ursa can simultaneously record every other frame to two cards when shooting at hfr's, do you think it's important to have exact matching cards? and in theory, wouldn't this method not be as demanding (per card) as trying to record hfr's to a single card?
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 7:04 pm

Devin, I do believe you should only use matching cards from one vendor with matching firmware regardless of what BMD or anyone says they are able to achieve mixing cards. Sorry, if that sounds harsh, it's just to minimize losing footage by reducing all risk. Some RAIDs can accept different storage devices too, but I'd always use matched drives there anyway for the same reason.

Recording simultaneously to the two cards (interleaving DNG frames and duplicating the audio file on both cards) does virtually double the bandwidth of the recording system. As was pointed out in an interview at NAB 2015, it's a great way to have insurance you have your footage safe, because in the event something horrible happened with the footage on one card, you do have half the frames on another card and you could use optical flow to recreate your missing frames in the video far easier than reshooting everything you lost.

Would be a very interesting test for someone to do this intentionally: do a 60 fps video with dual recording, import one card only, use optical flow or some other software to replace the missing frames, and see if it's virtually as good as the proper video using two cards input.

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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostWed Apr 29, 2015 11:54 pm

An example of using dual card recording just for redundancy would be to shoot at 48fps with a 360 degree shutter. This way each card would effectively have 24fps @180 degrees of the same thing. Otherwise it's intended for higher frame rates with RAW that would otherwise not be achievable with a single card.
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostThu Apr 30, 2015 3:07 am

CaptainHook wrote:An example of using dual card recording just for redundancy would be to shoot at 48fps with a 360 degree shutter. This way each card would effectively have 24fps @180 degrees of the same thing. Otherwise it's intended for higher frame rates with RAW that would otherwise not be achievable with a single card.


Thanks for the tip! I never really thought of doing that. I thought it was only for higher frame rates.

Now, if I can figure out what bricked my 2 brand new cards today I'll get back to shooting. * see my post about new Ursa bricking the cards *
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostThu Apr 30, 2015 3:32 am

CaptainHook wrote:An example of using dual card recording just for redundancy would be to shoot at 48fps with a 360 degree shutter. This way each card would effectively have 24fps @180 degrees of the same thing. Otherwise it's intended for higher frame rates with RAW that would otherwise not be achievable with a single card.


Interesting thought, would sound sync from the internal recording be an issue? probably not? You'd just have to back the image up one framE?

I like the sound of redundancy!
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Re: Wise CFast 2.0 cards - $299.00 - Adorama on Ebay

PostMon May 18, 2015 8:36 pm

Was looking a this too a month ago. but was too late :)
So i ordered 2 sandisk cards and now i got a WISE card for free with my ursa.

Sooooo I'm now selling it on eBay (starting bid 30$)

Hope it's not going away THAT cheap, because its worth 600 and never used
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