A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

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Kim Janson

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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostFri Aug 17, 2018 1:28 pm

Thanks Casper.

The gimbal is currently working well for this application and we have accurate encoders for reading the Zoom and Focus/Iris position as needed.

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However we are still working with lens control and could use some advice. Any suggestions for lens control system that could be controlled externally would be most welcome. We would rather integrate them to our system with serial etc. low level interface and of-course would need documentation for the interface.

Currently we are using just a cheap servo. It works but is noisy, and this one is not quite powerful enough, so it does not provide smooth low speed zooming. We have also some better servos that overcome most of the problems, but still somewhat noisy.

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The reason we use separate encoders is that after calibration they provide very accurate readings and fast update rates. So even now that the control is not that good, the virtual environment follows very well the Zoom movements. Also some lenses have inbuilt Zoom motors.

There is still many things to overcome, but already at this time I am sure the end result will be very good, not existing at the price point this system will be.

Ps. As obvious, the above pictures are from 3D printed prototypes.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 9:17 am

Take a look into the motors of Tilta.. The Nucleus motors are quite "cheap" ($300) Are able to control on a bus structure and also wireless..

https://tilta.com/shop/nucleus-m-brushless-wireless-follow-focus-motor/
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I do have a redrock follow focus motor with control.. Was about to rebuild the control interface of that one.. And buy some more motors.. But with $695 they are quite expensive..
https://shop.redrockmicro.com/product/torque-motor-for-movi-pro/
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Kim Janson

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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostMon Aug 20, 2018 9:57 am

Thanks Daniel, They both look good and Tilta is also affordable. I contacted both to request if they would be interested to provide them for this kind of solution, and provide the interface definition.

There will be a control SW that allows the user to control Pitch, Roll, Yaw, Zoom, Aperture, Focus and the can be also preprogrammed to repeat accurately the movements and lens parameters.
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Kim Janson

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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostFri Sep 14, 2018 8:44 pm

We have been lately working with lens control. It is really not something we would like to do at this time, but have not found suitable solution, that would provide smooth control at slow speeds, accurate control and real time feedback of the position. Tomorrow visiting IBC so mybe this widens the perspective and there is a solution.

This is what we have for now, it does the job, only problem realy is the noise, ok for custom builds. (these are just demonstrating the servo, it will be computer controlled.)



Slow speed demo



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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 5:17 am

Looking good Kim.
Cheers
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iantech

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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostThu Sep 20, 2018 6:23 am

So is there a timeline on when the Ethernet control will be available? Also can this be mounted on a pole hanging upside-down from a truss?
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Kim Janson

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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostThu Sep 20, 2018 10:22 am

We received today the B4Macig adapter to fit B4 lenses to MFT. As I understand this is not great at wide open, but should be ok stopped down to F5.6.

B4Macig.jpg
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Waiting the lenses to arrive to see what kind of image quality these inexpensive B4 lenses can provide and how good lens control they have, and further more how to interface with them.
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostTue Sep 25, 2018 9:16 pm

The Fujinon A19x8.7BMD-D24 1:1.8/8.7-165mm arrived today.

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As expected it is not really usable at F1.8, not at the wide end anyway, but cleans up nicely at f5.6 as recomended by the B4 Magic.



It has 3 lens servos that are the main reason we got this lens, for testing and development on that area.

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The mechanical parts look good, but the all analog electronics will be fully replaced. Planning to do first tests still during this week.
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostFri Sep 28, 2018 6:41 pm

The lens got all new electronics. Now it is microprosessor controlled, connection via serial port or USB. It will use the LeViteZer protocol https://github.com/LeViteZer-Oy/LeViteZer-Protocol but we could make it work maybe also with the B4 lens serial protocol that this lens did not originally have.

IMG_2786.jpg
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The lens control motors are good, but the potentiometers that provide feedback of the lens position are badly worn out. This can be clearly seen on this video, when it sudenly makes a jump at about 40 mm. I guess it has been mostly at that setting and does not make good contact any more.



Need to find similar potentiometers and replace them. After it should be possible to get this kind of slow Zoom even smoother. Faster Zooms are ok already (except when passing 40 mm).

This is a prototype for testing, when we have it fully functioning we will post more videos the hole system installed on the gimbal.

Ps. a bit more technical view of the potentiometers. The blue line is focus, red is zoom. Both have bad jumbs and noise. This is unfiltered output just to troubleshoot.

I guess this is a problem for many such old lenses.

Here some more details about this modification viewtopic.php?f=4&t=70896&start=50#p443100
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Kim Janson

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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostSat Oct 27, 2018 5:17 am

We will have soon the lens control ready and demonstrate the lens, camera and gimbal control working in perfect harmony, but meanwhile the LeViteZer 360 Pro gimbal on its originally intented use.


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‘Behind the Scenes: Creating Heli-Skiing in Virtual Reality’ https://stories.cmhheli.com/heli-ski/he ... l-reality/

VR landing page + tour dates http://www.cmhheli.com/vr

Thanks for Sherpas Cinema for putting the gimbal to great use and providing this.
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Kim Janson

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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostWed Oct 31, 2018 8:20 am

We are still thinking a bit the functionality the lens control should have and asking about opinions.

This is how it works now, zooming from 9 mm to 160 mm at speed 500 raw units per second. The full scale is about 16 000 raw units. This is still the development user interface.



We will keep the engineering approach available, using the raw units etc, but askin how would you like to control the Zoom speed

- the time it goes from position A to B
- the time it would take for the full zoom
- zoom speed in mm per second
- something else?

There is also control how the zooming starts and stops, how fast it accelerates to given speed. currently we use S curve for this.

It will be possible also to control directly the Zoom in mm and control it with direct speed control.

There is so many options, but must start somewhere and keep the user interface understandable. Asking for your help defining the first version of it. what would be important for you?

We could have similar controls for Iris and focus, but thinking keeping them simple to start with, i.e. the control will be

- Speed controlled with the time it takes for the full range
- the wanted f-stop of focus in m (absolute control)
- option to control directly with speed control (relative control)

for all parameters we will get feedback, currently 120 Hz.
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Kim Janson

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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostWed Dec 19, 2018 3:26 pm

Just tested the Geo Point functionality, and thought to share this, though we are still working to get it totally smooth.



We have full camera control on this system, but had our hands full with the testing and forgot to adjust the colours. It has also software controlled Zoom, Focus and Iris. The Zoom was tested couple of times on the video.

The jitters you can see are due we used raw GPS data and some parameters we still need to get right.
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostWed Mar 13, 2019 2:33 pm

We have been focusing updating the SW during the start of this year and I am happy to announce that we have now quite well working version, you can download it and users manual from here for testing (it works without any devices attached) https://github.com/LeViteZer-Oy/LeViteZ ... l/releases

Screenshot 2019-03-08 at 19.52.10.png
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The LeViteZer Control SW works with LeViteZer USB to SDI box that provides camera control for BMD cameras that support SDI control, we will also add the Visca PTZ control over SDI in near future. It is supported by BMMSC.

It works also with LeViteZer "Big Box" that is working name. In short it it provides SDI control interface and gimbal control over ethernet.

The hole system with old SW version is demonstrated on this video



All these units are currently available only on order, so just contact me and let's see if we have solution for you.

Just to give an idea about the pricing and availability.

The price for USB to SDI box is 320 euro VAT 0% + shipping. It needs 12 V power supply that is not included. BMMSC power supply is recommended. They are available in about 1 to 2 weeks from order.

The LeViteZer 360 Pro gimbal is 2750 euro VAT 0% + shipping. Currently we have parts available only for few gimbals, them we can provide 2 weeks from order. After that we need to wait for more parts, about 8 weeks from now. The LeViteZer 360 Pro gimbal works as a standalone gimbal but also as Pan, Tilt, Roll head when connected via the "Big Box" as demonstrated on the above video.

The "Big Box" is 1500 euro VAT 0% + shipping. Availability 2 to 3 weeks from order.

GeoPointing functionality is sold separately, it runs on the "Big Box".

The LeViteZer 360 Pro gimbal comes with a power cable with D-Tab connector for v-lock batteries etc. The operating voltage is 12 to 20V and max current 5A (but normally well below 1A). The "Big Box" works with the same cable. Battery or power supply is not included.

The LeViteZer Control SW is free to use with our devices. The USB to SDI and "Big Box" can be controlled also using LeViteZer protocol that is documented here https://github.com/LeViteZer-Oy/LeViteZer-Protocol
Last edited by Kim Janson on Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostWed Mar 13, 2019 2:43 pm

Sorry Kim but 1500 for big box when you can get skaarhoj with hardware controller to it for 100 euro more is way to high. I would be interested but this is to expensive :-(
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostWed Mar 13, 2019 2:49 pm

With The USB to SDI box you can have full BMMSC control and Visca PTZ control via it. The USB to SDI box is 320 euro.

The "Big Box" is really meant to be used with the 360 Pro gimbal. This combo provides very good control and realtime feedback of current position. It provides also stabilisation in case the installation is not that steady and it is silent.
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostWed Mar 13, 2019 4:06 pm

Hi Kim, the USB to SDI, is it based on the arduino shield? If so It's useless for me as I work in 4K
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostWed Mar 13, 2019 4:30 pm

Yes, it is based on Arduino shield, but no problem sending 4k out form the camera while controlling with it.
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostWed Mar 13, 2019 4:40 pm

Please do explain, I have hard to believe this as the shield is 3G sdi. This has been the only reason why I can not use the shield. :-/
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Kim Janson

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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostWed Mar 13, 2019 4:41 pm

The shield is only controlling camera and attaching to camera SDI in only.

This is BMMSC commanded to 2160p30 with USB to SDI box.

https://github.com/LeViteZer-Oy/LeViteZer-Protocol
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostWed Mar 13, 2019 5:58 pm

Strange, as you say input only and I said this myself but others said it would not work with 4K.
But I trust your statement as you sell this, as if it would be untrue it would be bad for business to make claim. Thanks for explaining :-)
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 5:20 pm

Kim, he want to control CCU and send return video in 4K. Discussed in the Visca tread.
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 10:27 pm

Yes, to be clear, it is possible to control camera that outputs 4k with the USB to SDI box. It is not possible to pass trough it 4k (or anything higher than 3G). We have not tested passing trough any SDI signal, just the SDI output to control camera and that it does well.
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostMon Mar 18, 2019 2:02 pm

Exactly. Thanks Daniel.

This is why ATEM thought Ethernet is the only way for me. :-)
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostTue Apr 09, 2019 4:54 pm

We have been working lately with BMPCC4k to fully control it with LeViteZer Control Software and we will provide also control with LeViteZer Protocol for those how want to use it for their own applications.

I am happy to announce we have now first version of it and it will be published during April.
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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostThu Apr 11, 2019 6:36 pm

Big fan of what you're doing. Especially with the focus rings.

Any updates on availability and pricing (unless I missed that info in this thread).

And do you have any restrictions for shipping ?
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Kim Janson

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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostFri Apr 12, 2019 8:09 pm

Thanks Rob.

With the lens control we have still plenty to do. The focus rings are 3D printed, them we are not planing to produce other than for our own use and maybe some custom builds.

The gimbals and control box are somewhat custom builds also at this time. The gimbal 2750 euro and control box 1500 euro VAT 0% + shipping.

No limitations for shipping as long DHL deliverers it there.
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Kim Janson

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Re: A bit more than pan tilt head for BMMSC

PostWed May 08, 2019 3:02 pm

Couple of new units.

IMG_4355.jpg
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The Ethernet to Bluetooth unit works standalone, connected to Ethernet near camera and provides full control for Pocket 4 k camera using LeViteZer Control Software or LeViteZer Control protocol if you want to use it with 3rd party SW.

The smaller unit is Serial to Bluetooth and does the same, but interfaces with the 360 Pro gimbal control box that controls the gimbal and camera over Ethernet. It has also SDI camera control for BMD cameras that support that.

IMG_4351.jpg
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The Bluetooth units should work also with other BMD cameras that support Bluetooth control.

Both are provided as custom builds at this time.
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