Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

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Bob Kovacs

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Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostTue Jan 09, 2018 1:24 am

Hi... my first post here!

I have Resolve 14.0.1, and I've been climbing the learning curve coming from different editing software (Corel VideoStudio). I've now edited several projects and have had no problem, editing 4K video from my Panasonic GX8 and ZS100 cameras.

However, on my latest project, I had a problem that caused rendering to fail. I want to render the video as 4K MP4 file, at a frame rate of either 30 fps or 29.97 fps. (The camera shoots at 29.97 fps, so that would be my preference.) However, for this particular edit, Resolve will not let me render at 30 or 29.97 fps. There is no selection for 29.97, only 24 and 23.96 fps. It does allow me to choose 30 fps with 3:2 pulldown, but the source videos that I edited from are all 29.97 fps. In any event, if I select 30 with 3:2 pulldown, the render crashes immediately. I can render at 24 fps, but the playback is very stuttery and clearly not right.

Does anyone have an idea on this? I closed the program and re-booted the computer, but no change. I know I should update to v14.2 (and I will), but is there something I can do now?

Thanks for the help!

Bob Kovacs
Last edited by Bob Kovacs on Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostTue Jan 09, 2018 1:31 am

Welcome Bob

you need to set your timeline frame rate in project settings to 29.97 prior to adding clips to the media pool. You can then select 29.97 from the render page.
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Bob Kovacs

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostTue Jan 09, 2018 9:14 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:you need to set your timeline frame rate in project settings to 29.97 prior to adding clips to the media pool. You can then select 29.97 from the render page.

Thanks for getting back, Peter!

I just tried doing what you suggest and the clips in my edit got all scrambled. Will I have to re-edit from scratch? It's not a long or complicated edit, but that seems a little nutty. I edited this project the same way that I edited several other projects that had no problem.

Bob Kovacs
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostWed Jan 10, 2018 1:32 am

The edit will be totally different as the timebase is changed, so with a new project, the correct timeline frame rate, add the clips to the media pool and then place in the timeline as needed.
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Bob Kovacs

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostThu Jul 12, 2018 6:17 pm

I once again got caught at the end of a project with Resolve 14.2 set to the wrong frame rate. All my clips are 29.97 fps, but Resolve was set at 23.98 fps for some reason.

So, I have two questions:

1. Can I set the default frame rate to 29.97 fps? If so, how?

2. Once I'm in a project, is there no way to change the output frame rate (in this case from 23.98 fps to 29.97 fps)? The only thing I can see to do now is to completely re-edit something that took me two hours to edit.

Oh... a third question: Is Resolve 15 any more flexible than ver. 14 at allowing you to set the output frame rate?

Thank you for your help with this.

Bob Kovacs
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostThu Jul 12, 2018 6:27 pm

v15 is the same. You can't keep changing your project fps just like this as it has HUGE implications.
Your project fps should match assets fps. Anything else needs very special attention.
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Bob Kovacs

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostThu Jul 12, 2018 6:43 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:v15 is the same. You can't keep changing your project fps just like this as it has HUGE implications.
Your project fps should match assets fps. Anything else needs very special attention.

In this case, every video file on the timeline is 29.97 fps. The only thing that is not 29.97 fps is apparently the opening title I used, which was generated by Resolve itself. So there is no way to change the output frame rate without re-editing the entire project?

And can I set Resolve to have a default frame rate of 29.97 fps so that I don't have such problems in the future?

FWIW, one editing software package I'm very familiar with will let you put any frame rate video in the timeline during editing, and allow you to render at a frame rate of your choice. The relationship of the input/output frame rates seems to have no implications there.

Bob
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Jack Fairley

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostThu Jul 12, 2018 7:00 pm

You can try exporting an XML and re-importing to project/timeline with the correct framerate. It may get you closer than just starting over. It's possible to change your default project settings to your "standard" framerate.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostThu Jul 12, 2018 7:14 pm

Bob Kovacs wrote:
FWIW, one editing software package I'm very familiar with will let you put any frame rate video in the timeline during editing, and allow you to render at a frame rate of your choice. The relationship of the input/output frame rates seems to have no implications there.

Bob


Implications are not NLE related- they are always there as they are bound to fact of fps mismatch. Your NLE will have them as well. There is no escape from it. Any mismatch is handled through fps conversion which is very difficult. Most NLEs use simple frame blending which is easy and fast, but produces very poor results (for example broadcast won't accept such a masters, neither Netflix, HULU etc).

Take eg. 25p source and use your NLE to produce 29.97p end master. Watch it on TV or broadcast monitor (not computer screen) over properly fps locked chain- eg BM card preview. You will see if it has no implications :)

There is possibility in some NLEs (eg. Premiere, Vegas) to change project fps, but you really have to understand what you are doing. Problem is that 70% don't know this and such a ability causes tons of crap end masters. If your assets are 29.97 then it would work for you, but atm. Resolve doesn't allow for it.

This is why I don't actually like that Resolve creates project based on dragged asset. It has been already cause of so many problems like yours. Project fps is very important setting and I would vote for change in Resolve, so user is forced to set it manually- maybe this will force bit of thinking :)
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Bob Kovacs

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostThu Jul 12, 2018 8:43 pm

Jack Fairley wrote:You can try exporting an XML and re-importing to project/timeline with the correct framerate. It may get you closer than just starting over. It's possible to change your default project settings to your "standard" framerate.

Thanks, I'll give that a try. I rendered it to 23.98 fps and uploaded it to YouTube, where it mostly looks good... just a couple instances where it looks like there might be a slight judder from a frame-rate mismatch between a 23.98 fps file in a 30 fps world (where I live).

Bob
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RCModelReviews

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostThu Jul 12, 2018 10:42 pm

This is quite a big deal for those of us who use Resolve for relatively low-quality purposes (such as YouTube). My previous NLE (Sony Vegas) allowed huge flexibility in terms of timeline and rendering framerates (with the associated quality implications) but when you really need to change the timeline or render framerate during editing, sometimes those implications are more acceptable than either being stuck with an unsuitable framerate or having to re-edit the entire project.

In the case of a project (such as the one mentioned) where all of the video footage is 29.97fps but the generated title at the start is 24fps, being able to change the timeline framerate would produce a better result than forcing all that 29.97fps footage to be pulled-down to 24fps -- wouldn't it?

Why not give the user the option -- with clearly stated caveats if they decide to change the timeline framerate during editing? This would massively improve the flexibility of the product for those of us who aren't engaging in cinema-level production (and never underestimate the size of that audience).
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostThu Jul 12, 2018 11:35 pm

It's not so easy as "giving an option". Resolve internals have to allow for it first and I believe it was never designed for such a thing, so supporting it may be not so easy (may need huge engine change, so time and resources).
All what is needed is bit of thinking and caution- not automatic clicking :)
If you later require different fps then you can convert final master.
Such an option would sometimes help, but it really depends how much work is needed from developers side. I'm sure BM is aware of this request as it has been mentioned many times. You have to be patient or keep using Vegas or Premiere.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostThu Jul 12, 2018 11:40 pm

RCModelReviews wrote:
In the case of a project (such as the one mentioned) where all of the video footage is 29.97fps but the generated title at the start is 24fps, being able to change the timeline framerate would produce a better result than forcing all that 29.97fps footage to be pulled-down to 24fps -- wouldn't it?
...


Yes it would, but proper solution- make sure your title is running at correct fps and problem sorted. Sorry, but for me it's mainly related to people's laziness and lack of attention :D
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Uli Plank

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostFri Jul 13, 2018 1:14 am

Lack of planning, that's what I'd call it.
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Bob Kovacs

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostFri Jul 13, 2018 3:04 am

Is there any way to set the default frame rate to 29.97 or 30 fps? That would work for me.

Bob
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Uli Plank

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostFri Jul 13, 2018 3:07 am

Sure there is.
Just make a new project and set it to the desired frame rate before you put anything into the timeline.
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Bob Kovacs

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostFri Jul 13, 2018 3:26 am

RCModelReviews wrote:This is quite a big deal for those of us who use Resolve for relatively low-quality purposes (such as YouTube). My previous NLE (Sony Vegas) allowed huge flexibility in terms of timeline and rendering framerates (with the associated quality implications) but when you really need to change the timeline or render framerate during editing, sometimes those implications are more acceptable than either being stuck with an unsuitable framerate or having to re-edit the entire project.

In the case of a project (such as the one mentioned) where all of the video footage is 29.97fps but the generated title at the start is 24fps, being able to change the timeline framerate would produce a better result than forcing all that 29.97fps footage to be pulled-down to 24fps -- wouldn't it?

Why not give the user the option -- with clearly stated caveats if they decide to change the timeline framerate during editing? This would massively improve the flexibility of the product for those of us who aren't engaging in cinema-level production (and never underestimate the size of that audience).

I'd be happy with a pop up the first time a video is dragged to the timeline... something that said,"You are about to set the project frame rate to 23.98 fps [or whatever the frame rate of the clip is]. Is this what you want?" That seems easily doable. I can only imagine the wasted hours and frustration people have with this... enough to drive them to a different editor.

And smug "advice" from peers here doesn't help much, either.

Bob
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Uli Plank

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostFri Jul 13, 2018 4:56 am

But there is a message! "The clip(s) have a different frame rate than the current project settings."

Didn't you even check why its coming up?
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Charles Bennett

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostFri Jul 13, 2018 8:49 am

I'm sorry, but I have to side with Uli here. I, too, make videos for YouTube, and I don't see how this is a big deal.
I also don't regard the advice of experienced professional users as "smug". We are lucky that some are willing to share their experience for the benefit of everyone. This is after all, professional editing and grading software designed to work a certain way so don't expect it to be like other NLEs. You need to adapt your workflow to the software you are using, not expect to have the creators adapt it to you.
As Uli said, it's hard to miss this pop-up.
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Dave Shortman

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostFri Jul 13, 2018 9:02 am

I would guess in your instance that if you had dragged a clip from the assets to the timeline first, and then added the generated title, it would have set the timeline correctly to your assets frame rate.

My workflow is to always assemble my assets into the timeline as a rough edit and then add the titles and outros after this rough edit, might just be new way to work for you to adopt.

You could try selecting all clips apart from the generated title and copy paste into a brand new timeline set to 29.97, certainly worth a try.
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Bob Kovacs

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostFri Jul 13, 2018 3:58 pm

Uli Plank wrote:But there is a message! "The clip(s) have a different frame rate than the current project settings."

Didn't you even check why its coming up?

I did not get that message when I started the video with a title generated by Resolve. There was no pop up this time. With the title as the first clip, nothing popped up for any subsequent clip, either.

There usually is a pop-up to alert me that my typical 29.97 fps material does not match the project settings. I tell it to go with the new setting (29.97) and all is well. However, this time I started with a title and there was no message to alert me -- apparently because Resolve's default frame rate is 23.98 fps. Which is fine for film makers (which I dabble in myself, BTW) but not what many of the rest of us use.

Edit: The key was that I created the title in Resolve *before* I loaded any files into the Media Pool. Apparently, that title on the timeline locked the output format to 23.98 (or 24) fps. Without a warning pop-up to let me know.

I've asked a couple times now, but will ask again: Can Resolve's default frame rate be changed? Can I just change my default to 29.97 fps and avoid future issues? If so, how do I do that?

Bob
Last edited by Bob Kovacs on Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Peter Chamberlain

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostFri Jul 13, 2018 5:59 pm

You can change the default frame rate and many other settings using the Project Setting, Presets.. please review the manual.
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Bob Kovacs

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostFri Jul 13, 2018 7:24 pm

Peter Chamberlain wrote:You can change the default frame rate and many other settings using the Project Setting, Presets.. please review the manual.

Thank you, Peter. I attempted to follow the instructions in the manual and could not get Resolve (I'm using version 14.2) to allow me to create a set of default settings that I could always use for my projects. It allowed me to change the settings (assuming I have not loaded any media), but it would not save this setting for future projects -- it always reverts to 24 fps.

Is there some obvious thing I'm doing wrong?

Bob
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Uli Plank

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostSat Jul 14, 2018 2:38 am

Easy one: why not make an empty project with the right settings and always do a “save as” to keep it?
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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostSat Jul 14, 2018 3:06 am

Uli Plank wrote:Easy one: why not make an empty project with the right settings and always do a “save as” to keep it?

After having the same problem (default configurations not saved), that's the strategy I have adopted as well. Works just fine.

Now the only issue I have is when I'm mixing 25FPS and 30FPS footage on a timeline (a side-effect of having one camera designed for the NZ (PAL) market and another designed for the NTSC (US) market.

If I use a 30FPS timeline then the 25FPS video eventually loses audio sync and, if I use a 25FPS timeline, the 30FPS video eventually loses audio sync.

Whilst some will no doubt suggest that I only use video of the same framerate in any given project, that becomes very hard when mixing action-camera footage (30/60FPS) with camcorder footage (25/50FPS).

Sony's NLE manages this very well, without any audio-sync loss even on quite long segments but DR has issues. Regardless of this, I'm still a happy DR user and am hanging out for the V15 release -- having already bought the Studio version of Fusion 9.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Can't select 29.97 fps for rendering

PostSat Jul 14, 2018 4:34 am

Some cameras can be 'hacked' for other settings.

If the loss of sync is only over long periods, it might be a 30 fps vs. 29,97 fps issue.
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