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Fusion 10 requests

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Abel Milanes

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostThu Jun 07, 2018 3:00 pm

Are you making a private sell?
I “personally" don't have a need for it. My post is just a suggestion to improve/expand Fusion's tools set... Which I think it would widen the scope of compositors more seriously considering the software.

But you can talk to Todd
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Chad Capeland

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostThu Jun 07, 2018 4:35 pm

Building business cases helps. We hit that wall with Krakatoa and OpenVDB and Octane. Fusion was an ideal host application to the tools, but we couldn't figure out how to make it financially viable.

And no, having 50,000+ Resolve licenses doesn't help that much because most Resolve Studio users aren't going to use Krakatoa, Octane, OpenVDB, or Deep Images.
Chad Capeland
Indicated, LLC
www.floweffects.com
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MikeRochefort

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostSun Jun 10, 2018 5:06 pm

Not really a Fusion feature, but more interaction from the devs/product team with the community. It's always nice to have conversations and discussions with the teams behind the tools we use, and even if we can't get hard dates for what's going on or the exact future of a product it can help allay confusion or negative speculation. I realize that BMD is more of a private/conservative company when it comes to news, but they are the only one out of the several tools that I use that don't offer any form of hard insight as to what's coming outside of snipped sentences at conventions where questions can't be avoided.

Cheers,
Mike
https://michaelrochefort.com/
3D Lookdev, Compositing, and Sysadmin
Fusion Studio 9.0.2
DaVinci Resolve Studio 15b3
CentOS 7.5.1804 | Intel i7-6850K | 32GB memory | 3x GTX 1070
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Todd Groves

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostSun Jun 10, 2018 8:07 pm

I think part of the concern comes from BMD not releasing products when indicated. I’m hoping the new BMD pocket cinema camera 4K is coming out in September as promised. Personally, I’m very interested in getting one. I hope BMD releases it’s own videos demonstrating this new camera ahead of its release date.
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Michael Wolf

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostTue Jun 12, 2018 2:05 pm

Sander de Regt wrote:
So the question is - I think - will you pay for the effort of 3rd parties who invest serious time (and thus money) into providing what you ask for? i.e. will you pay for plug-ins/custom macros/fuses/interesting set-ups?

Yup, that was my question. Because it certainly is serious time and effort.

Image

Cheers,
Mike
Michael Wolf - db&w GbR
http://www.db-w.com
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Pieter Van Houte

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostTue Jun 12, 2018 9:04 pm

Oooh!

Now that is exciting! :)
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alan bovine

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostTue Jun 12, 2018 9:18 pm

Would pay for Deep support. +1 Mike!
Fusion video tutorials : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTCeDas53OEcWcRujkQiwLg/videos?view_as=subscriber
Fusion Tools : https://github.com/statixVFX/stx_tools
Nuke 2 Fusion nodes : https://github.com/statixVFX/nuke2fusion
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Abel Milanes

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostWed Jun 13, 2018 2:16 pm

Michael Wolf wrote:
Sander de Regt wrote:
So the question is - I think - will you pay for the effort of 3rd parties who invest serious time (and thus money) into providing what you ask for? i.e. will you pay for plug-ins/custom macros/fuses/interesting set-ups?

Yup, that was my question. Because it certainly is serious time and effort.

Image

Cheers,
Mike
Michael, your post may be historic.
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Theodor Groeneboom

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostWed Jun 13, 2018 2:34 pm

+10, Would pay for Deep support.

Assuming Fusion Stand-alone will still exist.
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Joël Gibbs

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostWed Jun 13, 2018 5:05 pm

very interesting indeed...!
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Todd Groves

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostWed Jun 13, 2018 5:56 pm

Theodor Groeneboom wrote:+10, Would pay for Deep support.

Assuming Fusion Stand-alone will still exist.


I think it would be a big mistake if BMD discontinued Fusion standalone. There are plenty of companies that depend on Fusion standalone for their work. To kill that would be the first nail in the coffin. I guess anything is possible. But, I would be surprised if BMD killed off Fusion as a standalone.
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RamiGh

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostMon Jun 18, 2018 9:31 pm

Todd Groves wrote
You can only make a program only so user-friendly. When you want a powerful program, logic would tell you that there will most likely be a learning curve to picking up and utilizing the power.

That is is very true I totally agree I never said things should just build itself with a push of a button and actually I never spoke about myself I said that I find fusion not really hard I like how it deals with things but some people do and it is important to find the problem weather it is a lack of learning material or an actual user experience problem, that can benefit both the user and the company, again not that I am facing that problem or complaining about anything and actually I am willing to become a part of the solution not the problem I am thinking about starting a youtube chunnel to teach the new users how to overcome problems and explain the tools that I learned so far. I am using the tools manual to learn but in the end of the day the manual can take you so far as it is most of the time more about the technique not the tool itself but still it is very handy .

If you want dramatic results, expect to put time into learning a program and understanding its tools to achieve those results. When you've put time into a project and you get results that make you happy, chances are you will look back and appreciate all the time you put into that project. And you will realize it was all worth that time and effort.


True and false, well yes some effects require the user to dig deep and experience a lot BUT some other effects are not possible without upgrading some old tools or creating new tools,for example I am trying to create a system that can approximate GI for interior renders well I divided GI into several effects or better said several problems that should be solved to achieve a believable effect that should look like raytraced GI but not as acurate so it should just trick the eye into thinking that it is a real GI. In this project I was able to create an Area light that can produce similar shadows to raytraced light ,that was the first step the second step was to fake the light bounce I was able to get a very basic version of a solution that can lead to something if only the tools weren't so limited ,it is still possible to do the effect manualy but not possible to automate it with a system and that is so time consuming that it is not worth it anymore ,so to solve a problem like this I guess videos and documentations are not very useful anymore it needs a tool to help achieving it.The third problem is light bleed I didn't deal with it yet because I am still trying to solve the second problem. If you have any thoughts about how to achieve it I would love to hear it. :)
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Todd Groves

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostMon Jun 18, 2018 10:14 pm

RamiGh,

I don't think you can beat video tutorials in their means of teaching techniques and the use of tools to new and veteran users of programs like Fusion. Yes, manuals are limited in their use when it comes down to actually working with a program.

It sounds like you're asking for more powerful tools that are easier to use without the guidance of videos and manuals. I have to disagree. I thinking getting the most out of a program requires a combination of learning through experience and learning through tutorials and other user's experiences and techniques.

Sometimes, you have to find solutions with the current state of any program and their tools. No program exists today that has everything you need that doesn't require time to understand through personal use.

My biggest pet peeve with developers is that many times too often they rely on third parties to create tutorials for their products. Who better to create tutorials than the developer themselves? Although there are cases where some third parties are certified teachers of the program in question. In those instances, I think it's perfectly fine for developers to turn to such people to create content for them.

In the end, until new tools are added to a program, you have to learn about what solutions that program offers today. Your best bet, is to maintain communication with developers so that they can see for themselves what users want most of their software. Until then, work with what you've got.
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Hideki Inoue

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostTue Jun 19, 2018 8:28 am

Anyway, please fix the existing bugs. I want 9.0.3 rather than 10.
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Michael Wolf

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostTue Jun 19, 2018 9:52 am

Todd Groves wrote:Who better to create tutorials than the developer themselves?

Just about anybody really, at least in most cases. Developers tend to be really bad users of their software.
Which is not surprising given that their focus is quite different.

Obviously there's exceptions to that rule, but if you're knee deep in code, you rarely think about how the tool you're writing can be used outside of the original use case. And the knowledge of how to use the application rarely goes beyond being able to test it and replicate issues reported by customers.

Cheers,
Mike
Michael Wolf - db&w GbR
http://www.db-w.com
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Chad Capeland

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostTue Jun 19, 2018 4:59 pm

Todd Groves wrote:Who better to create tutorials than the developer themselves?


The developers did create documentation that BMD removed. The help system hasn't always been this anemic.
Chad Capeland
Indicated, LLC
www.floweffects.com
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Todd Groves

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostTue Jun 19, 2018 6:02 pm

Chad Capeland wrote:The developers did create documentation that BMD removed. The help system hasn't always been this anemic.


That's too bad. BMD needs to ramp up their tutorials and support for Resolve 15, Fusion 10 (when it comes out), and their new BMPPC4K.
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AlexAndRiEL

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostTue Jun 19, 2018 8:13 pm

Color checker match node :?
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Todd Groves

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostTue Jun 19, 2018 8:20 pm

AlexAndRiEL wrote:Color checker match node :?


What do you mean? Resolve has the XRite match panel. Along with other color swatch types.
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Chad Capeland

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostTue Jun 19, 2018 9:18 pm

Todd Groves wrote:
AlexAndRiEL wrote:Color checker match node :?


What do you mean? Resolve has the XRite match panel. Along with other color swatch types.


Ah, but we want one that actually works. :D
Chad Capeland
Indicated, LLC
www.floweffects.com
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Todd Groves

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostTue Jun 19, 2018 9:51 pm

Chad Capeland wrote:
Todd Groves wrote:
AlexAndRiEL wrote:Color checker match node :?


What do you mean? Resolve has the XRite match panel. Along with other color swatch types.


Ah, but we want one that actually works. :D


Did you get funky results when you used it?
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Chad Capeland

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostWed Jun 20, 2018 2:36 am

Yeah. It's non-deterministic. It's also a black box. And it doesn't work. Otherwise, though, it's cool.
Chad Capeland
Indicated, LLC
www.floweffects.com
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AlexAndRiEL

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostWed Jun 20, 2018 9:34 am

Todd Groves wrote:
AlexAndRiEL wrote:Color checker match node :?


What do you mean? Resolve has the XRite match panel. Along with other color swatch types.


Agree - but to do that, I have to buy Resolve, right? At least install it (if there is a kind of free version).
I believe that all of you guys agree, that the main goal of Fusion is a compositing, add some 3D stuff into the raw video - make it live there, be a part of it, seamless. And the main goal of the Resolve - is to grade the colors, work with a bunch of shots, add some mood with a colors, accents, within huge timelines. Just completely different scale of work.
I wish to have an ability to put into the raw some VFX with the right colors while working one single software. And let the grade department do their work with their tasks - grade whole shot real one + CG which is already in a same colors, gamma, so on. Do not mix.
I shouldn't jump to the one more software and play with an another department's massive toys.
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Todd Groves

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Re: Fusion 10 requests

PostWed Jun 20, 2018 4:19 pm

AlexAndRiEL wrote:
Todd Groves wrote:
AlexAndRiEL wrote:Color checker match node :?


What do you mean? Resolve has the XRite match panel. Along with other color swatch types.


Agree - but to do that, I have to buy Resolve, right? At least install it (if there is a kind of free version).
I believe that all of you guys agree, that the main goal of Fusion is a compositing, add some 3D stuff into the raw video - make it live there, be a part of it, seamless. And the main goal of the Resolve - is to grade the colors, work with a bunch of shots, add some mood with a colors, accents, within huge timelines. Just completely different scale of work.
I wish to have an ability to put into the raw some VFX with the right colors while working one single software. And let the grade department do their work with their tasks - grade whole shot real one + CG which is already in a same colors, gamma, so on. Do not mix.
I shouldn't jump to the one more software and play with an another department's massive toys.


That sounds more like personal preference. I think including Fusion inside Resolve is a brilliant solution. It makes project management easier and creates a more stable environment where all artists on a project can make changes faster. I think the interface of Resolve with Fusion is a well designed one. I personally love the interface and workflow of Resolve. Hopefully, the version of Fusion within Resolve will match the standalone version at some point, if it doesn't already. And given the power and stability of most computers these days, such an integration is more seamless than ever.
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