GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

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Jon Leslie

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GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostSun Nov 04, 2018 9:23 pm

I want to add some GH5 footage to my project but there's no IDT. Does anyone have one or know where I can get one, as the V35 one isn't much use?

(It does seem strange no-one's come up with one in all the time the GH5 has been out...)

Oh and how to install it if it's anything beyond copying it to a directory?
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Jon Leslie

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostMon Nov 05, 2018 9:58 am

As an update Black Magic say they don't know of one and it's down to Panasonic to produce one. I have asked Panasonic but I can't find one (I looked before my original posting, in fact I spent about two hours looking around the internet and reading forum posts before posting).
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Cary Knoop

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostMon Nov 05, 2018 3:59 pm

The only option for ACES to get decent colors is to convert the GH5 colors to V-Gamut (the gamma is fine), generate an intermediate and use this file with ACES V35.
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soulkeeper

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 7:58 am

I believed that color gamut in Gh5 when using vlog-l was rec709,but inspecting a .mov file recently with latest mediainfo ,it is reporting vgamut as the color space.
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Cary Knoop

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostTue Nov 06, 2018 11:01 pm

soulkeeper wrote:I believed that color gamut in Gh5 when using vlog-l was rec709,but inspecting a .mov file recently with latest mediainfo ,it is reporting vgamut as the color space.

It may indicate it is but don't think it is V-Gamut at all, interpreting the video as V-Gamut will oversaturate, especially the blues.
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Jon Leslie

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 5:27 pm

FYI Panasonic got back to me:

"I want to let you know that the DC-GH5/GH5S does not support ACES and there are no plans to produce an IDT for it."
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Jean Claude

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 6:07 pm

Jon Leslie wrote:I want to add some GH5 footage to my project but there's no IDT. Does anyone have one or know where I can get one, as the V35 one isn't much use?

(It does seem strange no-one's come up with one in all the time the GH5 has been out...)

Oh and how to install it if it's anything beyond copying it to a directory?



Try this :
Media Tab :
1) Create a new projet and import a GH5 VLOG
2) Color Management => ACEScc 1.1 => Set IDT and ODT
3) next adjust size,etc..
ACES_1_1.jpg
ACES_1_1.jpg (307.01 KiB) Viewed 718 times

:roll:

4) create a new TL for this clip.
5) Right clic on GH5 source and go to menu => ACES Input Transform => Panasonic V35 (see image)
ACES_1_1_IDT.jpg
ACES_1_1_IDT.jpg (361.25 KiB) Viewed 718 times

:)

Color Tab => adjust LGG and SNR ? if needed...as you like.. :)
Color Tab.jpg
Color Tab.jpg (425.8 KiB) Viewed 718 times

:D :?
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Jon Leslie

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 10:21 pm

Thank you for all that, I appreciate the effort. I'll go have a play as soon as I get a sec. I think I even have some footage of Regents Street in V-Log L ;-)
(I'll probably use something with people, trees and buildings. Plus a ColorChecker.)
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deezid

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 2:06 pm

Cary Knoop wrote:
soulkeeper wrote:I believed that color gamut in Gh5 when using vlog-l was rec709,but inspecting a .mov file recently with latest mediainfo ,it is reporting vgamut as the color space.

It may indicate it is but don't think it is V-Gamut at all, interpreting the video as V-Gamut will oversaturate, especially the blues.


It actually oversaturates the reds and pushes way too much towards magenta.
But these issues can be corrected quite easily.

Did a whole feature film using this kind of hack (GH5 V-Log L + ACES + HUE/HUE, HUE/SAT, HUE/LUM) worked quite well

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TiagoMata

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostSun Jan 13, 2019 5:35 am

Man your grading skills are killer.
trailer looks great also.
thanks

deezid wrote:
Cary Knoop wrote:
soulkeeper wrote:I believed that color gamut in Gh5 when using vlog-l was rec709,but inspecting a .mov file recently with latest mediainfo ,it is reporting vgamut as the color space.

It may indicate it is but don't think it is V-Gamut at all, interpreting the video as V-Gamut will oversaturate, especially the blues.


It actually oversaturates the reds and pushes way too much towards magenta.
But these issues can be corrected quite easily.

Did a whole feature film using this kind of hack (GH5 V-Log L + ACES + HUE/HUE, HUE/SAT, HUE/LUM) worked quite well

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Sandro Circi

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostThu Feb 14, 2019 10:48 am

Jean Claude wrote:Color Tab => adjust LGG and SNR ? if needed...as you like.. :)


I have to admit that I'm quite ignorant, what is "LGG" and "SNR", the second one is Signal to Noise Ratio?

P.S.: Sorry for asking after months.
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Jean Claude

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostThu Feb 14, 2019 5:30 pm

Sandro Circi wrote:
Jean Claude wrote:Color Tab => adjust LGG and SNR ? if needed...as you like.. :)


I have to admit that I'm quite ignorant, what is "LGG" and "SNR", the second one is Signal to Noise Ratio?

P.S.: Sorry for asking after months.


Hello, Sandro :
LGG : Lift, Gamma, Gain
SNR : Spatial Noise Reduction.

Hope this help. :)
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Jim Simon

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostThu Feb 14, 2019 9:23 pm

Jon Leslie wrote:as the V35 one isn't much use?


I use that without issue. What problems are you having?
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Jim Simon

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostThu Feb 14, 2019 9:27 pm

Jon Leslie wrote:"GH5S does not support ACES and there are no plans to produce an IDT for it."


Are they saying the Varicam V-Log is sufficiently different from the 5S V-Log that the same IDT can't be used for both?
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deezid

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostThu Feb 14, 2019 10:23 pm

Jim Simon wrote:
Jon Leslie wrote:"GH5S does not support ACES and there are no plans to produce an IDT for it."


Are they saying the Varicam V-Log is sufficiently different from the 5S V-Log that the same IDT can't be used for both?


V-Log L uses Rec709 gamut - not V-Gamut.
So it's basically fake-log.
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Jon Leslie

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostFri Feb 15, 2019 10:37 am

deezid wrote:
Jim Simon wrote:
Jon Leslie wrote:"GH5S does not support ACES and there are no plans to produce an IDT for it."


Are they saying the Varicam V-Log is sufficiently different from the 5S V-Log that the same IDT can't be used for both?


V-Log L uses Rec709 gamut - not V-Gamut.
So it's basically fake-log.


Since you're back I have a bonus question, if I may:

You said:
"Did a whole feature film using this kind of hack (GH5 V-Log L + ACES + HUE/HUE, HUE/SAT, HUE/LUM) worked quite well"

But I wasn't clear whether you meant the (more-or-less) exact scheme mentioned by Jean Claude in excellent detail, or something else? (I dodged the issue last time around, due to time pressures, but its come up again and it's time to take it more seriously.)
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deezid

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostFri Feb 15, 2019 2:03 pm

Jon Leslie wrote:Since you're back I have a bonus question, if I may:

You said:
"Did a whole feature film using this kind of hack (GH5 V-Log L + ACES + HUE/HUE, HUE/SAT, HUE/LUM) worked quite well"

But I wasn't clear whether you meant the (more-or-less) exact scheme mentioned by Jean Claude in excellent detail, or something else? (I dodged the issue last time around, due to time pressures, but its come up again and it's time to take it more seriously.)


Basically the first step, yes.
But with newer versions of DR you can use the ACES ofx and create your own ACES workflow and bypass the Rec709 gamut interpreted as V-Gamut which will help preventing oversaturation or even worse gamut clipping issues.
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Jon Leslie

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostFri Feb 15, 2019 8:25 pm

Could you please explain the ofx workflow a little more?

Thanks
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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 8:51 am

in an ACES project assign the "ACEScct" IDT to your GH5 clips. then on the color page on the very first node apply the resolve color transformFX. set input to v-gamut/v-log and output to ACES AP1 / ACEScct. Activate/adjust luminance and gamut mapping (optional since both is scene referred). Do your grading after this first color transformFX node. That should do the trick.
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Jim Simon

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 3:18 pm

deezid wrote:V-Log L uses Rec709 gamut - not V-Gamut.


I question that.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.ph ... light=2020
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deezid

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 3:53 pm

Jim Simon wrote:
deezid wrote:V-Log L uses Rec709 gamut - not V-Gamut.


I question that.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.ph ... light=2020


So what happens if you apply the V35 idt or a lut made for real V-Gamut?
I can tell you:
[*] reds turn dark and are oversaturated, they turn magenta as well
[*] blues are too dark and almost oversaturated as well
[*] skintones have way too much red
[*] the rolloff is nothing but bad (reds clip and turn yellow)

Whatever gamut it is, it's not V-Gamut.
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Cary Knoop

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostSun Feb 17, 2019 6:21 pm

I agree, both the Panasonic LUT and the V35 input transform are not correct for GH5(s) cameras.

I would recommend using HLG, colors are much better matching.

However, ACES does not support HLG input (there is an HLG transform in ACES 1.1 but it is not suitable as a camera input transform).
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Jean Claude

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostMon Feb 18, 2019 5:20 pm

Hello,
From what I understood: with GH5: 12 Fstop, Varicam 15 Fstop.
As a result: beyond 80 IRE: the GH5 lost all the potential of VLOG.

v_log.jpg
v_log.jpg (115.94 KiB) Viewed 111 times

VS
varicam.jpg
varicam.jpg (142.44 KiB) Viewed 111 times

(From what I understood...)
Edit :
And for v-Gamut : from Panasonic white paper :
v-gamut_white_paper_panasonic.jpg
v-gamut_white_paper_panasonic.jpg (131.93 KiB) Viewed 108 times

:)
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Jim Simon

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Re: GH5 V-Log L ACES IDT?

PostMon Feb 18, 2019 8:07 pm

deezid wrote:So what happens if you apply the V35 idt


So far I've been very pleased with the results. I'm not seeing the results you describe.

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