Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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tillkrueger

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Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 7:26 pm

I am probably not the only one here who is eagerly experimenting with what parts can be ordered to make the PCC4K even nicer to handle and use. So maybe this would be a good place to share our experiences with the parts we order, and which ones work and which ones do not.

One of the first things I ordered was an external SSD. The T5 was what I was going to get, since it appears in most of the pictures I see, but while looking for it on Amazon, I came across the G|Drive ruggedised SSD, which was comparable in price (I paid $254 for the 1TB version, but it is currently back down to $241):

amazon.com/gp/product/B0765QBGZZ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I love its build quality and size and am trying to figure out a way to mount it properly (I did use velcro tape, initially, but gave up on that solution, as it feels too rinky-dinky), so I just received one part of a solution I imagine will be much more solid. I found a cold-show mount on Amazon that comes with all the screws and hex keys to attach it to the PCC4K's top...it's this part (I ordered the 2-pack for $10):

amazon.com/gp/product/B071H4934L/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and this is what it looks like on the PCC4K:

Image

obviously not for heavy attachments, but should be no problem for an SSD drive.

anyone else has found any cool solutions for any given shooting/mounting challenges yet?
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 7:46 pm

You can get a SmallRig SSD mount like this:

Image

Or what I did like this (mobile phone mount for a bicycle or motorbike):

Image

A cage is also a god idea and the SmallRig one is what I'm likely to get.
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tillkrueger

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 8:05 pm

very nice solutions...although my G|Drive SSD wouldn't fit either solution very well (it's less than 2" wide).

how much is the SmallRig mount, and how much is your bike mount, and where can one order each one?
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 8:13 pm

I bought my SSD holder from eBay, so if you Google 'alloy mobile phone holder for bicycle', you'll find images of a variety of same/similar ones that might suit and where they are available. Mine cost AU$13.

The SmallRig one can also be bought off eBay or the SmallRig site. Just go to their site and under Blackmagic you'll find a range of accessories.
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tillkrueger

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 8:17 pm

cool, thanks Ray!

I'm gonna return my G|Drive for the T5...while I like the ruggedness of the G|Drive better than the T5, I don't expect to be throwing my SSD drive around, and it seems that it is the form factor everyone will be building their accessories for, at least initially...I really like the SmallRig adapter, and I guess it's worth the extra $10 to me, over a bike mount.
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 8:24 pm

I would have most likely bought the SmallRig one as well, but it wasn't available at the time I got my BMPCC4K. Now I wouldn't bother, as the bicycle option works very well.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 8:28 pm

I may still get the bicycle mount option, as the SmallRig one kinda requires the full cage to have a mounting point...I am planning on getting their cage, but since I won't always want to use a cage, the bicycle mount option would be more low-key to use.

mind sharing which one you got, bc on most I see it's difficult to tell whether they have the 3/8 hole on the back?
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 8:42 pm

This is one that I just picked from the Google image search: https://www.fasttech.com/product/966512 ... mount-cell.

I removed the bicycle clamp and replaced it with a riser and hotshoe adapter (also available from SmallRig and many others). Doing this allowed me some flexibility with mounting, but I've now changed that and mounted it with a double 1/4" adapter to my cage.

I prefer the bicycle mount, as it supports the SSD fully, rather than just at one end.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 9:06 pm

it looks like you put the T5 in length-wise, but does it also fit in side-wise, rather than length-wise, or is the T5 not wide enough to fit it safely/snuggly?

and what riser and cold-show mount adapter did you use? sorry'bout all the questions, but I hope that this is what this thread will be for: learning from one another, so that we can avoid lengthy trial and error phases...and having to return so much stuff ;)
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 9:43 pm

It won't install sideways as the clamp won't go so small. The mount is one of these: https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-1-4-t ... -1562.html. You need to replace the screw supplied with the clamp with a 1/4" screw. I had to grind off a small amount from the head to clear the SSD, no effort at all.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 9:56 pm

ok, got it, that what's I was concerned about. I also didn't realise that SmallRig seems to ship from somewhere far outside of the USA, so it either takes 3-4 weeks or gets rather expensive.

hmm, back to the drawing board...I'll try to find the parts for a solution on Amazon. What I am now looking for is some sort of simple low-profile cold shoe to cold shoe coupler, where I can attache the T5 with a piece of 3M tape to the top platform, and then slide the bottom platform into the cold-show mount I now have on top of my PCC4K, if you know what I mean? that would be a simple and non-intrusive way to mount the T5 horizontally on top and get it on and off quickly. Although to keep it on safely, those cold-show solutions usually require a fastening wheel, which would be difficult to fasten/loosen when it's not a coupler that has some height to it, which is what you have...probably for that reason ;)
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 11:19 pm

Really cheap option.
SSD.jpg
SSD.jpg (47.97 KiB) Viewed 641 times
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 11:40 pm

where'd you get that clamp, Earl, and how'd you get that drive so dirty? you got a link for that clamp and whatever else is needed? that does look like what I'm looking for, to hold me over until proper cages are available.
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Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 2:48 am

Here’s the slim Wise Portable SSD in it’s little included holder:Image


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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 5:05 am

I added the cold shoe for my Sennheiser MKE440 stereo mic. I use a small carabiner to hold a SanDisk Extreme SSD Which has a loop) to a PacSafe 100 camera strap. So far, I'm using a Viltrox EF-M2 adapter. I don't own any M4/3 lenses.

For setups, I record audio to a Tascam DR680 with a breakout cable. I have many Nikon F primes and an older, inexpensive matte box on 15mm rails. I haven't tried any of it with the PCC4K yet.
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 6:15 am

Here’s the slim Wise Portable SSD in it’s little includes holder:


That SSD obviously uses an NVME SSD, so I wonder why no one is making a multiple storage NVME SSD, or a housing able to take say up to four NVME sticks? For those needing plenty of storage, what could be a better way to get 4-8TB (8TB with double sided sticks) in a very small package? I guess you could strap four of those together with gaffer tape.

And can you imagine a NAS with NVME SSD? You'd have something supremely small instead of the monster boxes that are used now. No one even seems to make NAS boxes for 2.5" drives.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 6:33 am

Ray, the Wise Portable SSD drive connector is USB-C 3.1 gen 2.


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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 6:44 am

Funny you’d mention it, Ray, as I was just looking for a multi NVMe enclosure this week and couldn’t find any. You’re right, it would make for a brilliant little portable RAID soltution with wicked speed at a price that would actually be achievable. I wonder why nobody seems to have built one yet for the mass-market, or at least the prosumer/pro-market.

The 1TB G|Drive that I have is so narrow that I wonder whether it contains an NVMe chip, and G|Drive seems like a perfect candidate to create such a drive. Sure would be nice.
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 7:19 am

Ray, the Wise Portable SSD drive connector is USB-C 3.1 gen 2.


Yes, but the memory format looks to be NVME either PCI-e or SATA interface internally. One of these:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... L1500_.jpg
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 7:22 am

I wonder why nobody seems to have built one yet for the mass-market, or at least the prosumer/pro-market.


I've been wondering about this for so long it's not funny. For nearly 10 years I've been searching for a NAS that's built solely for 2.5" drives and took at least four. I only came across one that took two drives.

Now with NVME SSDs, it simply makes every sense in the world to make a NAS that holds multiple drives and in a very small form factor.
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Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 1:20 pm

Ray, you may be right about the Wise Portable SSD being NVMe internally. The form factor looks too similar to be a coincidence. The product guide I have mentions the data rates are limited by the SATA interface implying the SSD itself could go much higher if not for the SATA interface.

I wonder (if it is NVMe internally) if that significantly improves its ability to record video streams reliably at the higher fps settings. When the drive is available in Canada, I’m probably buying it, but until then, I’ll use the Wise CFast 2 and SDXC cards I have. For those in the US, Core MicroSystems is the primary source for these drives.

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 1:28 pm

Well, when someone does finally make one, I hope they’ll make a DAS before a NAS...no network interface can even remotely serve out the speed a little bad-boy like that can dole out...short of Thunderbolt 3 with the newest chipsets, no interface could...a minimum of 10Gb would be necessary for 4 NVMe chips, possibly 20Gb to be safe.

In the meantime, if/when u find even a truly portable 2,5” solution that takes 2 or more SSDs, do post a link, please!
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 7:33 pm

I have mentions the data rates are limited by the SATA interface implying the SSD itself could go much higher if not for the SATA interface.


For recording with the BMPCC4K it's probably a moot point as the SATA interface should be able to cope with uncompressed DNG RAW and BRAW. Now whether it could cope with say 8K is another matter.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 7:36 pm

I hope they’ll make a DAS before a NAS


For what we're discussing here, I think a USB-C connection would be fine. I talk about NAS, but I'm using that more as a generic term to refer to any storage box that holds multiple drives.

I'm not holding my breath on the 2.5" NAS, no one seems to be interested. I did see a two bay storage once, but that's no longer available.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 8:09 pm

Sure, for the PCC4K, the USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 drives we have now will be fine. Especially when BM adds BRAW to its firmware. That’ll be like Christmas all over.

But I would love a small DC-powered 4-bay Thunderbolt 3 enclosure to house regular 2.5” SSD drives, for editing on the road.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 8:13 pm

I certainly agree with the small 2.5" enclosure, but I think USB-C would be a more universal option, as Thunderbolt is still pretty rare.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 8:18 pm

Isn’t Apple’s implementation of TB3 done with USB-C? I think it is. USB-C is the plug format, and Thunderbolt 3 is the interface format...at least I think that’s what it is with all the newer generation Apple computers.
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 8:27 pm

It's something like that, but I'm not sure if they are fully compatible. If they are, then it should be called USB-C so as not to confuse people. Most people associate USB-C with PCs and Thunderbolt with Apple products.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 10:08 pm

Ray (that's what it is) wrote:
I wonder why nobody seems to have built one yet for the mass-market, or at least the prosumer/pro-market.


I've been wondering about this for so long it's not funny. For nearly 10 years I've been searching for a NAS that's built solely for 2.5" drives and took at least four. I only came across one that took two drives.

You might be looking for this four-drive array:
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... cmultidock

And there's a few that take two drives:
https://www.firmtek.com/seritek/miniswap-es/
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%2 ... MEMDC2KIT/
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/GMM8QKIT0GB/
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 10:13 pm

I've been looking for something that can hold say 4-5 2.5" drives and is not much bigger than 4-5 2.5" drives. I could always get a 4-5 bay 3.5" NAS and use caddies, but that defeats the purpose.

Given that SSDs are now not much bigger than a stick of chewing gum, it beggars belief that no one is taking any advantage of the size to make equally small housings for multiple drives.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 10:32 pm

Thanks for those links, Tristan!

the Blackmagic stuff is very cool for a studio environment, but not for work on the road.

the FirmTek is eSATA...not really useable in a Mac environment.

the OWC Mercury Elite Pro Dual mini is very cool, and something I might be looking at for the future...wish they made a 4-bay version of it!

the other OWC RAID enclosure is Firewire 800...also not really relevant anymore.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 10:35 pm

Ray (that's what it is) wrote:I've been looking for something that can hold say 4-5 2.5" drives and is not much bigger than 4-5 2.5" drives. I could always get a 4-5 bay 3.5" NAS and use caddies, but that defeats the purpose.

Given that SSDs are now not much bigger than a stick of chewing gum, it beggars belief that no one is taking any advantage of the size to make equally small housings for multiple drives.


I hear ya, Ray...just a matter of time that someone fits 2 of the NVMe chips into an enclosure the size of the T5, or 4 into one that's just a little thicker...patience, grasshopper.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 6:51 am

You should be able to find some side angled USB cables. But be sure they flush contact the port and don't wobble around and wreck it. Seems to be the thing for wrecking and replacing phones early these days.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 12:50 pm

tillkrueger wrote:where'd you get that clamp, Earl, and how'd you get that drive so dirty? you got a link for that clamp and whatever else is needed? that does look like what I'm looking for, to hold me over until proper cages are available.


All items here. The drive is not dirty, it is a silicone sleeve which adds enough thickness and grip to keep it from slipping from the holder.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WF ... UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072VV7Q76/re ... UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077G ... UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DN ... UTF8&psc=1
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 2:49 pm

that's great, Earl, and thanks for posting those links!

turns out that I actually had already ordered all but one (the silicone case) of them. I have found a mount that claims to hold drives down to 2" securely, which I am picking up from the Amazon locker today. If it turns out that it does, I will post the link...otherwise I'll also be ordering one of those sleeves...probably a good idea anyway, to protect the SSD.

In hindsight, I should have named this thread "Mounting an SSD on the BMPCC4K" instead...didn't think that this one accessorising theme would take up multiple pages. Can I rename a thread after the fact? As the other thread about powering the PCC4K is also growing in size considerably, maybe there should be a main topic about all things accessorising this camera...so many more topics to discuss.
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rick.lang

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Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 2:58 pm

The creator of a thread can rename it.

No real need for another forum category that will be rarely used in six months. I tried to have a thread for all these topics called Rigging the BMPCC4K but in a day that was displaced by a similar thread and then we have a variety of offshoots like your threads. Can’t change the culture here. Not a problem, but be aware it’s impossible to have any thread discipline when new cameras bring a flood of people who start posting threads without reading anything that exists.

And then the old veterans here who have abandoned such concerns about order (including yours truly) do what they like too.


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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 3:11 pm

haha, points well taken Rick. I already had a feeling that I may be guilty of same behaviour, and noticed that you are definitely one of the wise owls around these parts. I will rename the thread, eventually, but will refrain from opening another one like it. I, too, can learn proper forum behaviour in due time, and this forum is still brand-spanking new to me...and very exciting.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 5:47 pm

I’m relieved you took that well. I agree order is preferable to chaos, but when you live in a world in which The Walking Dead is the number one multi-year episodic soap opera on television then it’s obvious the visceral thrill of chaos has triumphed.


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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 5:50 pm

I do get what you're saying, Rick. I don't get the popularity of the The Walking Dead, though. Gratuitous, terrible violence, wrapped in "oh, but it's just zombies." Sign'o the times.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 6:09 pm

Re: DAS/NAS for NVMe drives

High speed NAS/DAS boxes like the thunderbolt raid boxes have significant processing power, RAM and power requirements. Basically nothing that you’re ever going to be able to mount and power portably. There’s significant overhead in managing drives that were not designed to share memory. Although maybe a strict RAID-0 could be managed without any bottlenecks or performance hits?

On a related note, has anyone tried teathering to a big RAID box as a USB drive? You couldn’t move far but it would be funny to have 48TB of continuous recording.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 7:31 pm

High speed NAS/DAS boxes like the thunderbolt raid boxes have significant processing power, RAM and power requirements. Basically nothing that you’re ever going to be able to mount and power portably.


I don't see that as a major issue, given that you can easily connect such a device to say a V-Lock battery, which would provide more than enough power. And we're not after the full capabilities of a NAS, just the ability to store several NVMe sticks in a single housing mounted to a cage. All the housing would have to be able to do is automatically switch to the next drive once one was full (or getting near to full). This could even be a manual switch as the camera should give enough warning.

These are all low power devices installed in portable computers/tablets that often use lower capacity batteries than cameras on rigs and seem to work fine for endless hours. It's often the CPUs and graphics processors that use the most power, or in combination do so. This would be little more than memory working away.
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 1:29 am

the tiny NVMe RAID enclosure will come, eventually, I am sure, Ray...it's too good an idea not to, and yeah, I also think powering it could be achieved by a small external battery...if a 5V USB port can power one, sometimes even two SSD's, then powering a two NVMe chip RAID 0 "array" should be possible as well, and wicked fast.

I finally got my iPhone clamp in, and reduced the construction on top of my PCC4K to a bare minimum...just a 1/4 20 to 1/20 coupler screw, and this $7.99 clamp, plus a couple of thin strips of velcro to tighten and hold it a little bit more securely, and I even attached my cold show to the clamp's 1/4 20 hole that was facing me, for whatever else I might think of next (like attaching my RODE Video Mic Pro), and *bingo*, a check mark next to my "figure out a neat way to attach my SSD on top of my PCC4K" to-do list item (at least for now).

this is what it looks like (phew, I had no idea how dusty it is here):

Image
Image

as a next DIY project I'd like to figure out the most direct way to power the camera with a small power bank via its 12V 2pin connector...I saw that solutions have already been posted that look like they might be suitable.

but more importantly, now that the SSD sits safely on top of the cam, I hope to find some time to take it on its first test shoot outside...since that's what all of this if for, after all.
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 1:39 am

Your cable setup reminded me of a dilemma I had. I wanted a short USB-C cable to run from the SSD to the camera and ordered one from eBay. When I received it, I ran a test on my PC with the SSD connected and it recorded 50Mbps rather than the 500 Mbps I was getting with the supplied cable. I later discovered that there are USB-C cables and then there are USB-C cables. I still haven't found a short cable that is up to snuff.
https://australianimage.com.au/
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 2:18 am

you read my mind, Ray...or rather, we seem to be on a very similar wavelength...being a neat-freak with stuff like this, I am also taking issue with that cable. Sound like the cable you got was a USB2-rated USB-C cable (I saw that those exist). I have a proper USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 10Gbps cable on order that'll come in tomorrow...it's that flat cable on Amazon that wasn't available until yesterday:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DN ... ddressBook

being a flat cable, I think I can make it look quite a bit neater than what the included cable allows for.
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 2:23 am

OK, now I'm going to have to search eBay.
https://australianimage.com.au/
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 2:28 am

why don't they have Amazon in Australia yet? (sounds like the beginning of a joke, doesn't it?)
not that I think that Amazon should be idolised in any way (given how many brick-and-mortar and mom-and-pop stores have fallen prey to it), but it does make things a whole lot easier to accomplish.

if worst come to worst, send me your address, and I'll send you one of these for Christmas.
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 2:50 am

Amazon is in Australia, but most of the stuff they sell is crap, or way overpriced. Amazon Australia is a very poor cousin to eBay. There was hope that it would provide some competition, but it's fallen flat on it's face.

This is Amazon Australia's version: https://www.amazon.com.au/Charging-Tran ... en+2+Cable (nearly US$35).

Thanks for the offer, but now that I know these cables exist, I'll do a bit more in-depth eBaying.
https://australianimage.com.au/
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 2:56 am

oh, jeeze, now that is excessive...over 3x of what it costs here!

well, the offer stands...the price of an envelope with this thing in it, to Australia, can't be more than a few bucks...take a while, but at these savings.
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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 3:02 am

Let us know how it works. If I can't find one here and you have PayPal, I can do a funds transfer. That way we are both giving each other a gift.
https://australianimage.com.au/
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Re: Accessorising the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 3:08 am

I will know tomorrow whether it will work as well as the included cable...no reason why it shouldn't.

and yeah, if you can't find one, let me know and I'll hook you up...nice lookin' cable, that one.
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