Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

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blacklevite

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Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostWed Mar 06, 2019 1:04 pm

After through searches online I really am still failing to do simple things which I wish someone may help me with a step by step of:

1. Using SDK's (or whatever they are called) to play Blackmagic Raw on PC

2. Use VLC media (or any other simple player) to play other codecs like Prores;

In other words all I need to do is to be able to review my footage before I begin importing it in Resolve or Premiere.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostWed Mar 06, 2019 5:00 pm

I don't think there is anything like simple player for PC to play BM RAW.
There is simple player on Mac, but on PC you need to use Resolve.
The simplest player would be Assimilate Play Pro, but it costs few $.
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 5:56 am

I started writing a basic braw player for Win, people who are interested can chime in for increased motivation. Also, what kind of functionality would one expect at first, in the basic featureless player?

For a little bit of background, I wrote braw reader plugin for Nuke some time ago when SDK was released, so I have at least mild experience with it. You can check out two small intro videos for Nuke braw decoder on my Vimeo site http://www.vimeo.com/kaldera
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Robert Baker

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostTue Mar 12, 2019 9:56 pm

Hendrik Proosa wrote:I started writing a basic braw player for Win, people who are interested can chime in for increased motivation. Also, what kind of functionality would one expect at first, in the basic featureless player?

For a little bit of background, I wrote braw reader plugin for Nuke some time ago when SDK was released, so I have at least mild experience with it. You can check out two small intro videos for Nuke braw decoder on my Vimeo site http://www.vimeo.com/kaldera


Can it play audio and video and have the option to scrub through the footage would be the basic requirements I would need [ask for].

Future development could offer the ability to add LUTs to see what the footage would look like graded. While we are on it perhaps the ability to insert In/Out points and save them to metadata that can be imported right into Resolve. And if there is more time how about the option to do quick edits on a file without having to re-render it! Then perhaps the ability to search for key words using the ability to extrapolate text from audio to get to specific moments in the recording.

Ok, maybe that last one is going a bit too far... But the others are do able?
Small List of my current toolset:

BMPCC4k - JVC GY-LS300 - JVC HM170UA - Canon 80D - DaVinci Resolve 15 - Adobe CC 2018 - Sony Soundforge 11 - Izotope RX6 Elements - Izotope Neutron Elements
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 10:53 am

So I started writing it and something is starting to take shape:
brawplayer.jpg
brawplayer.jpg (192.62 KiB) Viewed 555 times


I'm not sure about sound, haven't done much sound stuff, but I'll try to get something working. Playback itself works now, and changing settings etc. Currently on CPU only, will look into enabling GPU decoding soon. UI has buttons for trimming and sidecar export but that is something for future too.
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MishaEngel

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 2:53 pm

Hendrik, you are the man.
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Robert Baker

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 11:08 pm

Hendrik Proosa wrote:So I started writing it and something is starting to take shape:

I'm not sure about sound, haven't done much sound stuff, but I'll try to get something working. Playback itself works now, and changing settings etc. Currently on CPU only, will look into enabling GPU decoding soon. UI has buttons for trimming and sidecar export but that is something for future too.


:) :) :) :)
Small List of my current toolset:

BMPCC4k - JVC GY-LS300 - JVC HM170UA - Canon 80D - DaVinci Resolve 15 - Adobe CC 2018 - Sony Soundforge 11 - Izotope RX6 Elements - Izotope Neutron Elements
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostFri Mar 15, 2019 11:58 pm

Hendrik Proosa wrote:So I started writing it and something is starting to take shape:
brawplayer.jpg


I'm not sure about sound, haven't done much sound stuff, but I'll try to get something working. Playback itself works now, and changing settings etc. Currently on CPU only, will look into enabling GPU decoding soon. UI has buttons for trimming and sidecar export but that is something for future too.


Looks good.
Maybe an option to hide settings area, but keep simple timeline would be good (as well as full screen).
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostSat Mar 16, 2019 7:28 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Looks good.
Maybe an option to hide settings area, but keep simple timeline would be good (as well as full screen).

Yep, already thought about it. I'm currently doing some UI stuff and keyboard shortcuts, will add this too. And then I'll see performance side, at the moment I'm using very simple opengl and it seems that moving frame to gpu texture is kind of slow, but will switch to PBOs for asynchronous data streaming so that only limiting factor will be decoder itself.
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Norbert Seynhaeve

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostSat Mar 16, 2019 9:46 am

Hi,
Do you intend to do some stuff for FINAL CUT PRO X - APPE .
THANKS
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostSat Mar 16, 2019 11:24 am

Hendrik Proosa wrote:
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Looks good.
Maybe an option to hide settings area, but keep simple timeline would be good (as well as full screen).

Yep, already thought about it. I'm currently doing some UI stuff and keyboard shortcuts, will add this too. And then I'll see performance side, at the moment I'm using very simple opengl and it seems that moving frame to gpu texture is kind of slow, but will switch to PBOs for asynchronous data streaming so that only limiting factor will be decoder itself.


Don't know much about it, but SDI cards do use PBOs, so it sounds like the way to go.
Is there timecode in BM RAW? Maybe another option would be to switch from frames to TC for timeline.
Also to make GUI clean- maybe it's enough to have "Update Sidecar" and "Trim and Export". I think this is descriptive enough.
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Li Chenghan

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostSat Mar 16, 2019 1:35 pm

Hendrik Proosa wrote:So I started writing it and something is starting to take shape:
brawplayer.jpg


I'm not sure about sound, haven't done much sound stuff, but I'll try to get something working. Playback itself works now, and changing settings etc. Currently on CPU only, will look into enabling GPU decoding soon. UI has buttons for trimming and sidecar export but that is something for future too.



I am very much looking forward to it, it looks very functional. :D
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deezid

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostSat Mar 16, 2019 5:32 pm

Hendrik Proosa wrote:So I started writing it and something is starting to take shape:
brawplayer.jpg


I'm not sure about sound, haven't done much sound stuff, but I'll try to get something working. Playback itself works now, and changing settings etc. Currently on CPU only, will look into enabling GPU decoding soon. UI has buttons for trimming and sidecar export but that is something for future too.


Looks great!
Does it use Direct3D or OpenGL or Vulkan for video acceleration?
So I could use it on Linux via Wine with fluid playback. :)
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostSun Mar 17, 2019 10:46 am

Render surface uses opengl, it should be as universal as it gets. PBOs will somewhat raise the profile version but any computer functional today should have no problems with it.

Braw files have quite a lot of metadata in them, TC included, so I'll try to get switching between TC and frames going soon.

I'll move those button actions to menu instead, they don't need screen space at all. I'll probably use that space for some other, more relevant functions (viewer gain, gamma, LUT etc) or just give settings sliders more space.

About FCX and Apple, I don't know anything about macs so most probably not.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostSun Mar 17, 2019 7:25 pm

I've just noticed "worrying" situation.
BM RAW SDK in Resolve is at v 1.3, but public one is at 1.1 (or I can't find 1.3)
Does it mean that some (shot today on updated cameras) BM RAW files won't work with app which is based on SDK 1.1?
If this is the case then it's very bad for any integration. If I have eg. Scratch or other tool with BM RAW support I won't be able to work with BM RAW until BM finally releases SDK 1.3? This doesn't forecast big love for BM RAW in general audience.
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostSun Mar 17, 2019 9:27 pm

Unless they are deliberately breaking compatibility, minor version changes shouldn't in theory affect decoding, probably you just can't access some newer functionality. But I haven't looked into it in detail. Given that Resolve itself is in constant beta state and people are beta testers, braw probably is in volatile state also.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostSun Mar 17, 2019 9:57 pm

This is the hope, but I've seen reports about broken BM RAW playback and BM asking to use latest Resolve.
Maybe someone can post few samples from cameras with latest firmware, so you can have reference files.
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostMon Mar 18, 2019 7:49 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:This is the hope, but I've seen reports about broken BM RAW playback and BM asking to use latest Resolve.
Maybe someone can post few samples from cameras with latest firmware, so you can have reference files.

This is very good idea! Braw samples from different cameras and firmware versions could be great source for other tests and tinkering also. They could be gathered in separate (pinned) thread maybe, I believe there is no such thread at the moment?
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostMon Mar 18, 2019 11:14 am

A quick illustration about what kind of metadata is available from braw file:
brawplayer_v02.jpg
brawplayer_v02.jpg (182.38 KiB) Viewed 318 times
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostMon Mar 18, 2019 3:26 pm

Keep it like this with shortcut key to toggle on/off :)
Maybe remove the ones which are in the GUI?

Just for info. MTI Film had just added support fro BM RAW and ProRes RAW into latest Cortex version. So both RAW new formats are starting to be rolled out to more tools. Looks like ProRes RAW (silly) exclusive time is gone (update: apparently this is not the case and it's not that easy to get ProRes RAW SDK).
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostTue Mar 19, 2019 1:08 pm

Got some information that new files should work with old SDK engines (you just don't have access to LUT as you mentioned). Companies involved in BM RAW integration do have access to SDK 1.3. I would prefer if it would be publicly available, but not end of the world.
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostTue Mar 19, 2019 1:17 pm

So much for open standard and whatnot.

Anyway, I made a short demo of current version, goes through most working features. No audio (I don't have microphone at hand), so choose music to your liking:
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostTue Mar 19, 2019 1:29 pm

Looking very good.
Some suggestions:
Braw tools is somehow misleading name- maybe "Player options"? Some of those setting may go to Preference tab as well.
Viewer bit depth - I assume this is beta, but end user wants to rather see 8bit/16bit/Float (Unit16 doesn't tell much for most people).
Some setting for 25%/50%/100% size would be nice.
Great work. Nice and simple.
I assume you're planning to sell it?
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostTue Mar 19, 2019 1:37 pm

Good ideas, I'll put them in. Bit depth setting currently mirrors braw sdk resource formats, which is the internal format it gives out, but I'll change the names.

I'm not too sure what to do with it, maybe I'll put the basic version up for free and accept donations and add some bells and whistles to it for a small charge.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostTue Mar 19, 2019 3:25 pm

Up to you :)

Actually Viewer bit depth is misleading as well as it suggest preview surface quality. I assume this is processing pipe quality, so should be re-named to eg. "Decoding/Processing precision".
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostTue Mar 19, 2019 3:53 pm

It actually changes the opengl texture format also, so it isn't that wrong. I added it to test if changing decode buffer format would make texture uploads and updates faster, but haven't really tested it.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostTue Mar 19, 2019 3:59 pm

Ok- this is different case then, but this still won't work on all GPUs. 10bit OpenGL surface is supported only on pro cards as far as I know, no? In order to say that preview is actually 10bit whole chain must be properly configured (up to proper 10bit monitor).
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Hendrik Proosa

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostTue Mar 19, 2019 4:12 pm

You won't get anything beyond 8bit out of monitor on most machines, but what render surface bit depth gives is for example precision of pixel sampling (for possible pixel/area sampler tool etc). But yes, I understand what you mean, someone might think their monitor magically turns into high bit depth hdri display :D
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: Braw on Windows / Using VLC to review footage

PostTue Mar 19, 2019 4:19 pm

This is why better to call it processing/decoding precision :) (and keep possible 10bit OpenGL surface as separate option/thing). Assimilate Scratch allows for 10bit preview surface on pro cards for example.

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