Reds RAW patent under fire (again)

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jamedia

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Reds RAW patent under fire (again)

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 8:34 pm

And we have another round in the never ending saga of Red RAW patents.


This does impact BRAW.
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Re: Reds RAW patent under fire (again)

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 6:22 am

Braw is partial debayered, is not technically a raw.
Blackmagic Design study exactly to surround the red patent and avoid to have deal with them.
If they want to deal with them they keep also cdng in cameras born with it like ursa g1, pocket4k and more.
This video blowing on ash to burn again an old controversy.
They did a patent, derived from Newman’s work, at a sometime decide to use it to stop competitor.
Many years ago.
We have braw which is not raw, but act like raw, and we are happy with it :-)


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Re: Reds RAW patent under fire (again)

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 8:54 am

The Video explains how BMD does not impinge on the RED patent.

However it will be intresting to see how Nikon gets on.

My thought was that if Nikon, Canon, Pannasonic, Fuji, BMD etc just ignore the RED patant they could. It would cause a biggger different problem for Red and the US patent office.
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Re: Reds RAW patent under fire (again)

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 3:21 pm

jamedia wrote:My thought was that if Nikon, Canon, Pannasonic, Fuji, BMD etc just ignore the RED patant they could. It would cause a biggger different problem for Red and the US patent office.


That's exactly what everyone did...and then Red sued them.

-Canon is in bed
-Sony battled them to a stalemate
-Blackmagic invented Braw
-Kinefinity had to drop raw to move to the US
-Apple is going to share licensing fees with Prores Raw
-Arri and Sigma use uncompressed CDNG and aren't subject to the patent
-Everyone else is stuck with external recording

Braw makes much more sense at the sub 10K level but I don't see Blackmagic giving it away anytime soon, why would Red?

Good Luck
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jamedia

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Re: Reds RAW patent under fire (again)

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 3:51 pm

Howard Roll wrote:
jamedia wrote:My thought was that if Nikon, Canon, Pannasonic, Fuji, BMD etc just ignore the RED patant they could. It would cause a biggger different problem for Red and the US patent office.


That's exactly what everyone did...and then Red sued them.

-Canon is in bed
-Sony battled them to a stalemate
-Blackmagic invented Braw
-Kinefinity had to drop raw to move to the US
-Apple is going to share licensing fees with Prores Raw
-Arri and Sigma use uncompressed CDNG and aren't subject to the patent
-Everyone else is stuck with external recording

Braw makes much more sense at the sub 10K level but I don't see Blackmagic giving it away anytime soon, why would Red?

Good Luck

I said Nikon, Sony Canon, Panasonic, Fuji, BMD which are all non US companies. They simply ignore the US patent and do Rsw in the rest of the world. if Red complain then Nikon, Sony,Canon, Panasonic, Fuji, BMD simply stop selling in the USA (if you want to drive in to Canada/Mexico they will have no problem selling to you) The reason being is I don't think the patent would hold up outside the USA, it has no jurisdiction outside the USA but if Red went to court outside the US the patent would hold water.

Basically the whole world, except the USA would have a whole range of RAW cameras but only RED in the USA. (other than the grey ones smuggled in from Canada and Mexico.) Yes the US market is big but others are as big or bigger.. Also with the range of equipment available outside the US it would boost the other film major making centres in India, Europe, Africa etc I think the situation would not help Red in the long run and it would, yet again, make the US patent office look silly.

It might even make Australia preferable to California as a base.
Besides Australia is closer to Middle Earth than California. :-)
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Re: Reds RAW patent under fire (again)

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 5:22 pm

jamedia wrote:I said Nikon, Sony Canon, Panasonic, Fuji, BMD which are all non US companies. They simply ignore the US patent and do Rsw in the rest of the world. if Red complain then Nikon, Sony,Canon, Panasonic, Fuji, BMD simply stop selling in the USA (if you want to drive in to Canada/Mexico they will have no problem selling to you) The reason being is I don't think the patent would hold up outside the USA, it has no jurisdiction outside the USA but if Red went to court outside the US the patent would hold water.

Basically the whole world, except the USA would have a whole range of RAW cameras but only RED in the USA. (other than the grey ones smuggled in from Canada and Mexico.) Yes the US market is big but others are as big or bigger.. Also with the range of equipment available outside the US it would boost the other film major making centres in India, Europe, Africa etc I think the situation would not help Red in the long run and it would, yet again, make the US patent office look silly.

It might even make Australia preferable to California as a base.
Besides Australia is closer to Middle Earth than California. :-)

This thinking is rubbish. All these companies depends on the US for market share and to survive, they need deep corporate presence compared to anywhere else in the world. Also, US patents do have reach outside the US. It’s just that it’s expensive to pursue unless the companies can seek a viable edge to do so.
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Re: Reds RAW patent under fire (again)

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 5:43 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:
jamedia wrote:I said Nikon, Sony Canon, Panasonic, Fuji, BMD which are all non US companies. They simply ignore the US patent and do Rsw in the rest of the world. if Red complain then Nikon, Sony,Canon, Panasonic, Fuji, BMD simply stop selling in the USA (if you want to drive in to Canada/Mexico they will have no problem selling to you) The reason being is I don't think the patent would hold up outside the USA, it has no jurisdiction outside the USA but if Red went to court outside the US the patent would hold water.

Basically the whole world, except the USA would have a whole range of RAW cameras but only RED in the USA. (other than the grey ones smuggled in from Canada and Mexico.) Yes the US market is big but others are as big or bigger.. Also with the range of equipment available outside the US it would boost the other film major making centres in India, Europe, Africa etc I think the situation would not help Red in the long run and it would, yet again, make the US patent office look silly.

It might even make Australia preferable to California as a base.
Besides Australia is closer to Middle Earth than California. :-)

This thinking is rubbish. All these companies depends on the US for market share and to survive, they need deep corporate presence compared to anywhere else in the world. Also, US patents do have reach outside the US. It’s just that it’s expensive to pursue unless the companies can seek a viable edge to do so.


It would be very expensive for RED to pursue the their claim outside the USA. Having seen the evidence no other court or patent office outside the US would support RED. I have some idea as I am dealing with a non US Patent office this week.
If all the non US camera companies ditch the USA which is large but not indispensable market then the balance of power shifts. In the USA you use Red or nothing and in the other 192 coiuntries of the world you can use anything. Especially if the all press ahead with RAw solutions of their own.
Then see who blinks first when the big US film and TV companies are told you can only get these cameras supported and maintained world wide except in Russia, N.Korea and the USA..... That would be intresting if the have the bottle to do it.

BTW Bollywood has been bigger and more productive than hollywood for over a decade. The US market is large but not the only game in town.
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