Phase out fractional frame rates!

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JonPais

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Phase out fractional frame rates!

PostTue Aug 31, 2021 3:37 am

A group of industry professionals led by JayDee Vandenberg, Director of Post Production at Walt Disney Animation Studios, is calling for the electronic display industry to begin to phase out support for fractional frame rates over time so that content can be displayed at its intended frame rate. According to the people behind the request, “this should include displays, recorders, play back devices, and cameras among others.”

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rNeil H

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Re: Phase out fractional frame rates!

PostTue Aug 31, 2021 4:11 am

Long overdue.

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Jim Simon

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Re: Phase out fractional frame rates!

PostWed Sep 01, 2021 11:20 pm

Oh, I hope this succeeds. Should have been done with the transition to HD.

Though, displays will still need them...probably forever, given the back catalog.

But the day that all cameras offer 24 fps exact (without 23.976 or 23.98 as even an option) are loooooooong overdue.
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Dan Shay

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Re: Phase out fractional frame rates!

PostThu Sep 02, 2021 12:07 am

How about moving up to a higher standard frame-rate for Cinema(24 fps to 30fps) so we don't have so much judder on displays? I can understand why they kept the frame rate so low in the film days - extra cost and slow stocks - but that isn't a problem today.
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JonPais

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Re: Phase out fractional frame rates!

PostThu Sep 02, 2021 1:12 am

Dan Shay wrote:How about moving up to a higher standard frame-rate for Cinema(24 fps to 30fps) so we don't have so much judder on displays? I can understand why they kept the frame rate so low in the film days - extra cost and slow stocks - but that isn't a problem today.
Judder and motion blur artifacts are more noticeable on high contrast, wider gamut displays, regardless of screen size. In order to maintain the judder 'level' of a traditional 100-nit SDR display on a 1,000-nit HDR display, a 7 second pan must be slowed down to somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 seconds. Synthetic shutter and motion grading should already be the norm for HDR movies, where images are captured at high frame rates and dropped down to a lower frame rate in post - under the supervision of the director, of course. Pixelworks is probably the one company that stands the greatest chance of striking a deal with streamers like Netflix. Here's a terrific video by RealD TrueMotion showing how synthetic shutter can be used creatively.

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Jim Simon

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Re: Phase out fractional frame rates!

PostThu Sep 02, 2021 4:43 pm

Dan Shay wrote:How about moving up to a higher standard frame-rate for Cinema(24 fps to 30fps)
No thank you.

Better to move all TV to 24 fps. (Or 48 for sports).

Globally. (Sorry PAL, you guys went down the wrong path with 25/50 and it's time for that to end also.)
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Mark Foster

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Re: Phase out fractional frame rates!

PostThu Sep 02, 2021 7:46 pm

Jim Simon wrote:
Dan Shay wrote:How about moving up to a higher standard frame-rate for Cinema(24 fps to 30fps)
No thank you.

Better to move all TV to 24 fps. (Or 48 for sports).

Globally. (Sorry PAL, you guys went down the wrong path with 25/50 and it's time for that to end also.)


but you do realize that 25/50 is the majority worldwide ; -)
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Jim Simon

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Re: Phase out fractional frame rates!

PostFri Sep 03, 2021 2:55 pm

Popularity and Quality have never been roommates. ;)

24 was chosen because it's evenly divisible by 2, 3, 4 and 6. It's a good choice, and should be THE choice worldwide. (Very possible in the digital era, where frame rates are no longer tied to power cycle.)
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Andy Coulthurst

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Re: Phase out fractional frame rates!

PostFri Sep 03, 2021 7:58 pm

Jim Simon wrote:Popularity and Quality have never been roommates. ;)

24 was chosen because it's evenly divisible by 2, 3, 4 and 6. It's a good choice, and should be THE choice worldwide. (Very possible in the digital era, where frame rates are no longer tied to power cycle.)


Wikipedia disagrees with that assumption about the origins of 24 fps, and so do I :D
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Jim Simon

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Re: Phase out fractional frame rates!

PostSat Sep 04, 2021 4:14 pm

There's a reason Wiki frequently isn't allowed as citations.

But...why 24 was chosen is incidental to my point.

It is evenly divisible by 2, 3, 4 and 6. That makes it a better choice than 25 for a worldwide standard.

And I do think a single worldwide standard has value, and should be pursued. Power frequency is no longer the impediment is used to be.
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Howard Roll

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Re: Phase out fractional frame rates!

PostSun Sep 05, 2021 1:50 am

They can bundle non-integer frame rates with interlaced and give them both a viking funeral.

Good Luck
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Andy Coulthurst

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Re: Phase out fractional frame rates!

PostSun Sep 05, 2021 2:03 pm

Howard Roll wrote:They can bundle non-integer frame rates with interlaced and give them both a viking funeral.

Good Luck

Can certainly agree with that!
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Andy Coulthurst

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Re: Phase out fractional frame rates!

PostSun Sep 05, 2021 2:09 pm

Jim Simon wrote:There's a reason Wiki frequently isn't allowed as citations.

But...why 24 was chosen is incidental to my point.

It is evenly divisible by 2, 3, 4 and 6. That makes it a better choice than 25 for a worldwide standard.

And I do think a single worldwide standard has value, and should be pursued. Power frequency is no longer the impediment is used to be.

Okay - then whilst we're doing this - I'd like to eliminate all processing engines in TV's and also redesign all display panels to have variable frame rate. I'd like to have fixed and accurate colour controls as well :-).

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