Intensity Shuttle and capture flickering with VHS content

Product: Intensity Shuttle USB
Driver: 10.9.12
Computer: Lenovo E560 + Windows 10 x64

Dear Forum Members,

I bought the Intensity Shuttle for transferring old VHS material. When using a VCR or a VHS camcorder as the source, the video flashes/flickers with black frames. Tried with Black Magic Media Express, VirtualDub and OBS Studio.

Where should I start trouble-shooting this issue?

PS. Tested also with a borrowed cheap $20 USB capturing device and no flashing/flickering with that.

VHS tape has very poor timecode encoding when the tapes were new. As they age, it gets worse with tape drop out and image stabilization issues. CRT TVs which were used to watch VHS was very forgiving with broken TC, and would continue to play the tapes. Digital systems are much more picky and you need to use a good Broadcast type Time Base Corrector to repair the broken TC segments on the tape. The TCC goes between the type deck and the video capture device..

Do a search here, and in the Kivd Production Forum for VHS type Time Code issues for more details.
Cheers

VHS tape has very poor timecode encoding when the tapes were new. As they age, it gets worse with tape drop out and image stabilization issues. CRT TVs which were used to watch VHS was very forgiving with broken TC, and would continue to play the tapes. Digital systems are much more picky and you need to use a good Broadcast type Time Base Corrector to repair it... The TCC goes between the type deck and the video capture device..

Do a search here, and in the Kivd Production Forum for VHS type Time Code issues for more details.
Cheers

Actually, the TBC does not repair unstable time code. Instead, such devices' generated timecode replacesincoming timecode being sent to it, from, say -- within the old videotape's video signal.

Resolve Studio 14.3...014 | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7

Yes Peter, better explaination, that is what I should have said. A TBC does not repair the tape itself, just regenerates a new TC on the TBC output to re-sync the tape signal for a stable playback. Thanks.

For more info on TBC for VHS recording, see: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=62609&hilit=+VHS and other posts by Collin Barrett.
Cheers

I had exactly the same issue when I bought my Intensity Pro PCI Express card in February to transfer VHS tapes, bursts of black frames and strobing from picture to black, and the sound slowly going further out of sync as I transferred. The condition of the tape made a difference, a home recorded tape strobed much more than a retail tape. Anyway after a post on here, someone said I'd needed a Time Base Corrector.

I had no idea what a TBC was, but after reading up online, and waiting a month or so for one to come up on eBay, I opted for a DataVideo TBC-1000 for £160 buy-it-now. Time Base Correctors can be really hit and miss quality-wise, and it's not even like you get what you pay for since they're all expensive, even the crappy ones. I borrowed a fairly new CYP CTB-100G Multi-System Time Base Corrector from a friend just to test out that not having a TBC was the issue, and the quality difference between the two TBCs is massive. The CYP was more expensive than my TBC-1000 unit the quality on mine is so much better. There is a good guide to TBC buying on the digitalfaq forum, I can't post the URL, but if you google "digitalfaq time base corrector guide", it's the first thing that comes up

I have used to use an Asus My Cinema ES2-750 Hybrid PCI-E TV Tuner Card to capture, and that never gave me any issues with black frames, but it also only captured a 25fps analogue PAL signal. The Intensity card captures both PAL and NTSC, even PAL-60 (although the colours are not as accurate when played with a fully NTSC VCR). I think it's down to the Intensity pro card expecting a very exact signal, and between the older VCR and older tape, the fine sync isn't 100% perfect and a TBC fixes that, but someone may correct me on that.



My current setup is a UK PAL JVC HR-S7600 S-VHS VCR (for PAL tapes) and a US NTSC JVC HR-S9500U S-VHS VCR (powered by a Goldsource ST-1500 1500w 240v/110v voltage converter, for NTSC tapes), through a DataVideo TBC-1000 Time Base Corrector using S-Video cables, to a PC with an Intensity Pro PCIe Capture Card. This rig allows capture of both NTSC & PAL S-VHS/VHS tapes, and has transferred NTSC & PAL BetaCam, BetaCamSP & Digibeta tapes in the past (matching players & TBC/Genlock units were borrowed through a friend).

Using the Thunderbolt version of Intensity Shuttle with my 13'Macbookpro(2015) and a VHS/DVD recorder gives no dropped frames at all, my guess the used laptop/PC isn't having enough speed through USB3.
Have a try-out on a stronger pc before buying too expensive hardware, or upgrade internal RAM.
I have VHS tapes that are older than 25 years, and give no problems with my setup.

@eric-jan, Then your VHS playout device has a good TBC inside.. Because most problems related to VHS in this forum has all to do with the lack of a TBC.. BMD hardware from itself is not able to recover a good sync on VHS..

This VHS/DVD recorder does make good vhs transfers to dvd, i guess the quality also comes out of the composite RCA output, i will also try the S-video output it has, next time, there are also component connections, but both vhs and dvd give only black and white capture results, but i'll try some other settings with this, these component connections might need the sync of the composite output which is not supported for the Intensity Shuttle box, in this day and age

update: I now also managed to make a good video capture from the component output of a VHS tape, it works fine ! I'm very happy with the Intensity Shuttle ! the VHS/DVD recorder is the Panasonic DMR-ES35V
it has Component, S-Video, Composite video out, two SCART connectors, and also optical audio out, i bought this one new, after the VHS "time age" online, just lucky i guess, because i had not any choice but this one.
I now do notice, that Media Express is slightly less responsive when i click on it's functions like tab page and capture button.

Update: since i discovered that the component also outputs the VHS output, i use no other connections, component just gives the best results.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

I just bought an Intensity Shuttle USB to transfer VHS tapes and got into the same flicker problem. I bought the VHS for $20 so I didn't want to spend another $100 on a Time Code thingy.

I got from Amazon a Scart to HDMI converter for $8 and it works like magic. You plug the scart or composite into one end and use a HDMI cable to connect it to the Intensity and the flicker stops. I know the intensity inputs become kind of useless but it's a cheap solution.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

I just bought an Intensity Shuttle USB to transfer VHS tapes and got into the same flicker problem. I bought the VHS for $20 so I didn't want to spend another $100 on a Time Code thingy.

I got from Amazon a Scart to HDMI converter for $8 and it works like magic. You plug the scart or composite into one end and use a HDMI cable to connect it to the Intensity and the flicker stops. I know the intensity inputs become kind of useless but it's a cheap solution.

That's good to hear ! could you give the the details of the converter that you use ?
Most of the time it's more a miss then a hit with these devices, you surely have a hit here ! nice ! it somehow manages to clean-up the video signal, because the Intensity Shuttle needs a clean video signal, if you had known this at an earlier stage, you could have used the UltraStudio Mini Recorder, from BMD, this one is even cheaper than the USB version of Intensity Shuttle, and runs also from the port it's power, and is compact in format.

btw: do you still have interlaced at the HDMI output of the converter ? or is it also converted to progressive ?

I'm experiencing the exact same problem... and i think it's mind blowing that we can still contact voyager 1&2... but still we're having problems with converting analog signals to digital...

@stefanwyatt89: please let us know wich converter you're using to solve this problem, and also if it converts interlaced to progressive ?

"A leap of faith":

Today I bought the Marmitek Connect AH31 RCA, because i hope this will resolve the problem.

For a company like BlackMagic, i find it amazing they offer free (cutting edge) video editing software... but when it comes down to the RCA input on the Intensity Shuttle (?)
I'm not sure what to think, but there must be a good reason for the flickering black frames... while other RCA to HDMI converters don't have that problem...

Hi, Pascal ! I also hope "stefanwyatt89" will return to answer ! a lot just depends on experimenting, so it seems,
and just try "things".
BMD is mostly (semi)Pro stuff, they do state their equipment expects a clean signal, most ordenary VHS consumers VCR's don't do that, so you need some kind of passthrough equipment, and this is mostly DVD recorder hardware, of a certain "age" and HDMI is a bit tricky with that, because HDMI also "communicates"....

I just also subscribed to avforums, also a site with lots of info.

Thanks to stefanwyatt89 i was able to capture a first test of 30 mins, with succes !
I would also like to thank Eric-Jan for more tips to make this possible.
A leap of faith: buying the Marmitek AH31 was a good choice for me. There may be even cheaper converters that can do the trick... and i'm sure stefanwyatt89 can share his setup

Yet i still wonder why the Intensity Shuttle is so picky with the analog signal strenght...
If we can still communicate with the Voyager spacecrafts, isn't it just a matter of energy ?
#powersupply #signal

PROBLEM SOLVED!

I just bought an Intensity Shuttle USB to transfer VHS tapes and got into the same flicker problem. I bought the VHS for $20 so I didn't want to spend another $100 on a Time Code thingy.

I got from Amazon a Scart to HDMI converter for $8 and it works like magic. You plug the scart or composite into one end and use a HDMI cable to connect it to the Intensity and the flicker stops. I know the intensity inputs become kind of useless but it's a cheap solution.

That's good to hear ! could you give the the details of the converter that you use ?
Most of the time it's more a miss then a hit with these devices, you surely have a hit here ! nice ! it somehow manages to clean-up the video signal, because the Intensity Shuttle needs a clean video signal, if you had known this at an earlier stage, you could have used the UltraStudio Mini Recorder, from BMD, this one is even cheaper than the USB version of Intensity Shuttle, and runs also from the port it's power, and is compact in format.

btw: do you still have interlaced at the HDMI output of the converter ? or is it also converted to progressive ?

The TV signal is in good quality when it is transmitted, once it is recorded, it depends on de mechanical parts, (tape transport, stable speed of the head drum) and electronics, how clean the signal stays, lines are written on the screen, making two interlaced fields, which becomes one frame, if there's fast movement between to fields, the (one) frame isn't a perfect picture, this has to be "translated" in a good (digital) picture, and all should be in sync with eachother....(new line, new field, new frame) a normal digital frame is one whole picture, (progressive) there are different ways to encode/decode......

Hi guys,
I have to agree, it really works perfectly converting from S-Video or composite before HDMI converter to Blackmagic Intensity. The image does not flicker, no black images, no TBC required! I use equipment from the manufacturer PETCSH (772-114). The only thing that bothers me is that the signal is detected as 720p60, but of course in a 16: 9 aspect ratio. In general, these HDMI converters can only convert an analog signal to 720 / 1080P mode. However, the old analog recordings are in a 4: 3 ratio, and the image is thus distorted proportionally. What with this? Can you advise? Thanks for the idea

Yes, you have to check a 4:3 option box somewhere along the way and you're fine, no problem.
these converters have no way to "see" what 16:9 or 4:3 is, that's only possible through SCART or HDMI.
Also, you should not activate any "upscale" options.
Although you get a steady image, you will loose some image quality, also in the "solid color" area's of the picture.
Using short as possible cables is also a good idea.

Unlike everyone above, I'm from the primitive age and was trying to capture VHS via Composite. It flickered like mad, so I bought a Composite-to-HDMI converter (Simplecom CM401) hoping the Shuttle would be more tolerant of a 'typical' input connection. It worked, the flickering stopped. Thanks to stefanwyatt89 for the suggestion as well as everyone afterward.
FYI: LG VHS/DVD player Composite > Simplecom HDMI > Shuttle USB > PC Desktop.

From this point on of the reply, I'm just sharing my experiences, issues and tests for those that are curious to read on...
- While the flickering stopped, it still presented side effect issues. The capture output was no longer Interlaced, but now Progressive so horizontal scanlines started to show. Not totally unexpected since the settings on the converter were only Progressive.
- 1080p did not work since the Converter was 1080p @60 while the Shuttle's only available 1080p was @30. So I was forced to switch to 720p @60 to sync with the Shuttle's 720p @60.
- As expected due to the HDMI input, the capture is now at 16:9 instead of the VHS 4:3. There is no button to switch it to 4:3 at least not with the latest Desktop/Media Express. I did fool around with the Conversion settings in the Setup tool, but that didn't do anything for me.
- Capture formats tests: RGB 10-bit did not play on VLC, YUV 10-bit played okay, Quicktime formats had similar results but I'm Windows so I didn't really care, DPX had a bunch of mini files in a folder like a web stream not really what I'm after. The only remaining Capture was the best of them all...
- JPEG Motion: it played okay on VLC. Compared to YUV, JPEG had brighter colours, less blotchy blacks, less contrast, more sharper detail.
- Side test: Capturing via Elgato device. I bought the Elgato at first after rave reviews, but it sucked, was dissatisfied leading me to explore the Shuttle. The JPEG capture still proved better than Elgato.

That's the end of the Shuttle notes, from here on it's downhill as I moved on to non-Shuttle options. Read on if you're curious...
- The whole point of all the above for me was to see if it was convenient to capture via my PC and if the technology had advanced to the point where quality was better. As a final test, I went old skool and decided to test capture from LG VHS/DVD player Composite > Topfield 2400 (PVR).
- Results: the capture was even better than the JPEG motion test. Even brighter colours, slightly more details, scanlines are obviously gone since the Interlace has not been tampered with, 4:3 is maintained, less of the scattered black specs.
- Basically, the capture is closer to the original as could be even if it is a bit old skool.

Final thoughts, what ifs:
- Would have been interesting if there was a 1080i Comp-to-HDMI converter of some kind to maintain the Interlace. Only seems to be Progressive converters.
- Upscale didn't really do much in the way of quality. The old skool Composite capture proved better quality than the 720p capture.
- I heard the Blackmagic Video Assist can capture at 1080i (maintaining Interlace) but out of my Budget. Also a very portable setup too, oh well.
- At some point I would like to tinker with 'Neat Video' to clean the captures up, but maybe some time later after I capture all my tapes.

I can't find any question in your post, all i can say is, stay away from cheap China (consumer) converters, like you discovered they change the aspect ratio to widescreen, only a few don't, but these are rare.
A PC or any computer makes it difficult to capture with due to many/various things that can go wrong hard or software wise, > try first to get the analog video signal stable, with a Panasonic DVD recorder, or a combo recorder, DVD deck should also be able to record, so not just an player in a vcr, this should work work with the Intensity Shuttle, try to use s-video or component, not composite.
(The dvd recorder or combo recorder should only be used as passthrough)

btw. the scaling function from some converters to widescreen, is having a weak TBC function sometimes, but during capture you should be able to correct this back to 4:3, setting the (China) converter to 4:3 will result in a 4:3 with side-bars

I'm also VERY curious if anyone has found a good solution to this issue without shelling out a grand for a pro TBC. I'm already using a highly recommended VCR with a built in TBC (Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U).

A cheap HDMI converter doesn't seem like an answer for quality. Am I wrong in thinking that you're trusting this $20 SCART converter to do the digital to analog conversion, deinterlacing and upscaling? (I haven't been able to find any that DON'T deinterlace and upscale! Interested if they exist.)

Still, I'm not sure how else to solve this problem... And it does seem like a blackmagic problem. I've ingested dozens of tapes over the years and somewhere around 2018 it seems like EVERYONE started having this black flickering issue.

Would love to hear ideas that don't involve me taking out a second mortgage to get a TBC (have you seen their ebay prices lately?!) but still preserve quality that I worry would suffer with a SCART.

The only good converter to HDMI i found is: the NK-P60 YPBPR to HDMI Converter.
But… it has only analog component input, but you still need a passthrough device i guesss, a dvd-recorder with component output will do just that.
the NK-P60 does not scale, and leaves interlaced just interlaced, leaves progressive also progressive.
otherwise a passtrough HDMI on a converter will also work with that dvd - recorder HDMI output.

Thanks, Eric!

Bummed I can't find a convertor that accepts S-video input but doesn't scale. I have a few tapes where I need high quality. I'll probably grab the NK-P60 for the rest.

I know the "real" solution to this problem is a beefier TBC than my Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U offers.

I also have a Panasonic AG-7350. I'm curious if you think the old Panasonic remote TBC would be strong enough to stop the dreaded black frames. This won't let me post links, but I'm looking at the "Y/C Plus YCP-PTBC Time Base Corrector for Panasonic Tape Machine" on ebay.

Do you think that would do the trick?

Much appreciated!

EUREKA!!!!!

I had been reading about people using vhs/dvd players as passthroughs to use their TBC. I happened to notice an old Panasonic DMR-ES35V vhs/dvd combo collecting dust at a neighbor's house. I knew it was a long shot since these machines had some sort of odd "almost" TBC/Synch filters, but I was desperate.

I plugged it into the Intensity shuttle and you could have knocked me over... it worked!

I'm currently using it as a pass-through, since my Mitsubishi HD2000U has a stronger DNR, but I've had it capturing the oldest tape in my collection and I haven't seen a black frame yet!

Thanks all for your help!

Congratulations ! well, you can't find any better than this one, it is the same one as i use and is indeed rock steady, nice thing also is, you can also transfer tapes that are recorded on lower speeds, that's something a TBC or JVC vcr with TBC can't do, I've dedicated my HowTo guide here on the forum to the DMR-ES35V, the NTSC version has also the same "TBC function" they called it "VHS Fresh" in those days.
If you use the VHS deck of the ES35V itself, you can also capture VHS directly into 625p/525p over the component output into the Intensity Shuttle, so that way you don't have to de-interlace in post.
You save a lot of money with the ES35V the V means you can also play SuperVHS recordings,
I'm only curious, if you have a SCART (at the back) model ? you should not use SCART for capturing anyway.
For monitoring only, it comes handy because output over scart will always work, even when you capture over the RCA component outputs in progessive mode.

So, with the ES35V you can use any good Analog to Digital converter and a good SDI/HDMI recorder or pro capture card to save your analog recordings (or LaserDisc) into digital form on SSD/HDD USBstick or SD card

This VHS/DVD recorder does make good vhs transfers to dvd, i guess the quality also comes out of the composite RCA output, i will also try the S-video output it has, next time, there are also component connections, but both vhs and dvd give only black and white capture results, but i'll try some other settings with this, these component connections might need the sync of the composite output which is not supported for the Intensity Shuttle box, in this day and age

update: I now also managed to make a good video capture from the component output of a VHS tape, it works fine ! I'm very happy with the Intensity Shuttle ! the VHS/DVD recorder is the Panasonic DMR-ES35V
it has Component, S-Video, Composite video out, two SCART connectors, and also optical audio out, i bought this one new, after the VHS "time age" online, just lucky i guess, because i had not any choice but this one.
I now do notice, that Media Express is slightly less responsive when i click on it's functions like tab page and capture button.

Update: since i discovered that the component also outputs the VHS output, i use no other connections, component just gives the best results.

Would an AV 3RCA to hdmi converter work as a fix for the blackmagic intensity shuttle flickering issue? Im having the same issue with the conversion and I qm not inclined to invest in a TBC so i am thinking an Av RCA to hdmi converter would work.
I have a hitachi vt-lc50em for the PAL tapes.

I just Googled the vt-lc50em, never seen a Laptop AV before !, i guess it plays VHS tapes normal on the LCD, TV or composite, But this "set" has no extra features which could it make to capture from, you quoted a part of my writing from 2018,
in the mean time i did some more expiriences….
The Panasonic DMR-ES35V (combo recorder) has a special feature called "refreshVHS/VHSrefresh" it digitizes the analog signal, which makes the analog vhs-tape signal stable.
This is really needed, and this is your problem, a converter can help in this case, but mainly only if it is a "upscaler" but most of these (cheap) converters, will also convert the normal aspect ratio (4:3) to WideScreen (16:9) the allmost square 4:3 will be stretched to the WideScreen format, or some do have an 4:3 option, but the proportions will still be 16:9, with the 4:3 in the center, with black side-bars, if you don't mind that, you can fix this later, when you encode or edit, the easy way would be to keep it stretched, and set the encoding to 4:3, otherwise you need to "cut off" the black sidebars of the 16:9, (where you have the 4:3 in the center)
the vt-lc50em on it's own is not suitable for digitizing, an cheap option would be to find the correct Panasonic recorder combo or a Panasonic DVD-recorder as passthrough.
a consumer device (DVD recorder or combo) with HDMI output will not work directly to capture or record from, you also need a converter with HDMI passthrough, even if the vhs tape is not protected with Macrovision.
You already have a device to capture/record by HDMI ?
The cheap converters/HDMI dongles, have specifications that are all over the place, that can be hits or misses.
My setup now, (because of the "refresh" feature) works fine: ES35V > BMD miniconverter Analog to SDI > BMD Video Assist (SDI/HDMI monitor/recorder) the Video Assist records to SD flashcard.
I can also connect my Hyperdeck Shuttle HD (records also to SSD) to the HDMI output of the Video Assist, besides recording to any ProRes codec, then also 3 levels of h.264 (MP4) codecs that are an option that way.
It all depends on your budget, you should look into these options, in the end you get what you pay for, the BMD equipment is very affordable, with good quality that way.