Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

Getting started with a Blackmagic product? Ask questions here about setup and installation.
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FrostKiwi

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Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostMon Sep 04, 2023 12:38 pm

With the release of the Panasonic GH6 Firmware Version 2.3, 5.7k 12-bit RAW output to the Video assist via HDMI became possible: https://panasonic.com/global/consumer/l ... mware.html
[5.7K] [C4K] [Anamorphic (4:3) 5.8K] [Anamorphic (4:3) 4.4K] 12-bit RAW video data can be output over HDMI to Blackmagic Video Assist 5” 12G HDR and Blackmagic Video Assist 7” 12G HDR, to be recorded as Blackmagic RAW.

But in the documentation of the Blackmagic Video Assist, I fail to find a reference of actually recording at that resolution. Can anyone confirm or refute that?
Can the Video assist actually record at that resolution or does it simply receive the 5.7k 60fps signal and downscale it for encoding?

I publish in 4k60 and require the 5.7k recording of my GH6 to punch-in or perform extra stabilization without sacrificing too much of the 4k sharpness. Here is how I use my footage:


I am really interested in buying a Blackmagic Video Assist to streamline my workflow, but cannot do so, if the recording is limited to 4k, as that breaks my workflow.
Last edited by FrostKiwi on Fri Sep 15, 2023 9:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSat Sep 09, 2023 1:12 am

I record 5.9k from my Panasonic S5 to the BMVA 12G without problem. The GH6 will output 5.7k and 5.8k 4:3 which the recorder can handle. Of course, it's using the braw codec which edits beautifully in Davinci Resolve Studio.
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSat Sep 09, 2023 2:51 am

That sounds good, but could you confirm the question directly?
Paul Millard wrote:I record 5.9k from my Panasonic S5 to the BMVA 12G

But does the BMVA 12G itself output a 5.9k file?
Paul Millard wrote:The GH6 will output 5.7k and 5.8k 4:3 which the recorder can handle

Never doubted that it handles the signal, but is the resulting file from the BMVA 12G also a 5.8k 4:3 braw file?

The Manual on page 20 specifically states what's supported, and that 5.7k60p is not listed, so I'm really confused here:
HDMI Input and Output
  • SD Video Standards: 525i59.94 NTSC, 625i50 PAL
  • HD Video Standards : 720p50, 720p59.94, 720p60, 1080p23.98, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29.97, 1080p30, 1080p50, 1080p59.94, 1080p60, 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 1080i60
  • Ultra HD Video Standards: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G HDR models: 2160p23.98, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29.97, 2160p30, 2160p50, 2160p59.94, 2160p60
  • 4K Video Standards: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G HDR models: 4Kp23.98 DCI, 4Kp24 DCI, 4Kp25

Is Blackmagic's manual wrong?
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSat Sep 09, 2023 5:39 am

Your quote from the manual is about video signal standards, but sending the raw data over HDMI isn’t a standard video signal. That is the reason why non of those special raw resolutions are in the quote.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSat Sep 09, 2023 5:44 am

FrostKiwi wrote:Is Blackmagic's manual wrong?

No. The BMVA 12G 7” will record to max 4K 30fps DCI when fed through SDI and 4K 25fps DCI when fed through HDMI. The 5.7K image will be scaled down to 4K DCI in the max resolution case, or to whatever port, resolution, and codec selected.
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSat Sep 09, 2023 10:18 am

Ellory Yu wrote:The 5.7K image will be scaled down to 4K DCI in the max resolution case, or to whatever port, resolution, and codec selected.

Many thanks for the confirmation!
Unfortunately, this doesn't fit workflow, so I'll not be going with the BMVA.
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSat Sep 09, 2023 8:03 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:
FrostKiwi wrote:Is Blackmagic's manual wrong?

No. The BMVA 12G 7” will record to max 4K 30fps DCI when fed through SDI and 4K 25fps DCI when fed through HDMI. The 5.7K image will be scaled down to 4K DCI in the max resolution case, or to whatever port, resolution, and codec selected.

On 11 July 2023, the Blackmagic Video Assist 3.12 Update - Adds Blackmagic RAW recording from Panasonic Lumix GH6.

Is it possible the Video Assist recording resolution is dependent on how well the camera manufacturer made the interface?

AliTheAce wrote:

"If you like BRAW, the S5iix can shoot Blackmagic RAW using a Blackmagic video assist
…I've used both the BMPCC 6K and currently own the s5iix as my main cam with the video assist so I'm familiar with the BRAW bitrates. Been using BRAW on the S5IIX exclusively for 2ish months.
You get the exact bitrates BRAW would give you at that specific resolution, all the way up to Q0 or 3:1 compression.
…The RAW output had the camera barely heating up, in fact I don't even think the built in fan in the S5IIX was running. Since the camera simply has to dump RAW sensor data over HDMI, there's no processing load on the body.
…I was recording 6K Braw 5:1 to a Samsung T7 Shield 2TB. The video assist was giving me a temperature warning but never once shut off, once I reduced screen brightness to 65% it went away."

r/bmpcc Is micro jitters and vintage lenses a bug issue on BMPCC 6k? two considerations stopping me from jumping on it are the micro jitters and the fact that I really like using vintage lenses adapted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bmpcc/comments ... bug_issue/

AliTheAce wrote:

"...I use the S5iiX exclusively, and 90% of the time with a BMVA 12G. I have used the S5iiX for sit down interview work and also for run and gun handheld work and the AF hasn't failed me once. My XT3 did a lot worse. You have to set it up right but once you do it's pretty solid. Proper AF modes, human/face detect if you need it and the speed and @@@ responsiveness settings as required.
This time, the Panasonic implementation of BRAW is equivalent to that of the BMPCC cameras. You have highlight recovery, you have all the gamma and gamut options that BMPCC cameras have, with the only exception of ISO, but you can adjust the exposure directly through the metadata in camera raw. The previous S1/H/5 cameras did not. I used BRAW one the old S cameras and it looked pretty processed and had sharpening baked in. They did not output a pure RAW RGB sensor data stream, now the second gen S5's do.
…The S5IIX, in my stress testing can handle over/underexposure extremely well, including highlight recovery for channels that are clipped, to a certain point."

r/bmpcc Can someone show me the difference between the 4k and 6k

https://www.reddit.com/r/bmpcc/comments ... en_the_4k/
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSat Sep 09, 2023 10:19 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:
FrostKiwi wrote:Is Blackmagic's manual wrong?

No. The BMVA 12G 7” will record to max 4K 30fps DCI when fed through SDI and 4K 25fps DCI when fed through HDMI. The 5.7K image will be scaled down to 4K DCI in the max resolution case, or to whatever port, resolution, and codec selected.


Why would it do that when getting fed the raw signal for BRAW recording?
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSun Sep 10, 2023 8:47 am

Robert Niessner wrote:
Ellory Yu wrote:
FrostKiwi wrote:Is Blackmagic's manual wrong?

No. The BMVA 12G 7” will record to max 4K 30fps DCI when fed through SDI and 4K 25fps DCI when fed through HDMI. The 5.7K image will be scaled down to 4K DCI in the max resolution case, or to whatever port, resolution, and codec selected.


Why would it do that when getting fed the raw signal for BRAW recording?


I don’t know. You’ll have to ask BMD. What I know is what’s said on their tech spec page, where the resolutions are stated to support HD, UHD, 4K DCI. I don’t see where it says it supports other manufacturers resolution.

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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSun Sep 10, 2023 1:37 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:
Ellory Yu wrote:No. The BMVA 12G 7” will record to max 4K 30fps DCI when fed through SDI and 4K 25fps DCI when fed through HDMI. The 5.7K image will be scaled down to 4K DCI in the max resolution case, or to whatever port, resolution, and codec selected.


Why would it do that when getting fed the raw signal for BRAW recording?


I don’t know. You’ll have to ask BMD. What I know is what’s said on their tech spec page, where the resolutions are stated to support HD, UHD, 4K DCI. I don’t see where it says it supports other manufacturers resolution.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... /W-VASS-04


C'mon Ellory - think again.

There are video standards the VA12G has to support for SDI like SMPTE 259M, SMPTE 292M, SMPTE 296M, SMPTE 425M, SMPTE 2084 and for HDMI. Those are the standards for video signal compliance.

But there is no restriction of which kind of data you can send via SDI or HDMI as long as sender and receiver do understand those signals. That's how it is possible to send mosaiced RAW data over SDI/HDMI and the VA12G can then use that stream and convert it into BRAW. For this the only restriction is the available bandwidth of the cable.

Does that make sense to you?

You can see this in action yourself here in this video:



and he has provided some recorded BRAW samples:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... omGMltIrNn
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSun Sep 10, 2023 4:38 pm

Robert, what you said makes sense. I don’t think the OP issues was that the camera and the BMVA was the restriction of data being transferred but the recording of that data on the VA. If the firmware now allows the resolution to be recorded in BRAW, that’s terrific. I’m just basing it on what the manual and tech spec states. I’m not trying to make an argument, just pointing out what I know about the VA from its literature.
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSun Sep 10, 2023 8:17 pm

Maybe the tech writer for the VA manual has been sidetracked with another project, and hasn't completed the changes from the 3.12 update.

At 02:10 Red Frame Tech said:

"…BRAW through the Video Assist is available for 5.8K, 5.7K up to 60P, Cinema 4K up to 120P and 4.4K anamorphic 4:3…"

UPDATE your LUMIX GH6 // BRAW and more. Do you NEED it? (firmware update 2.3)

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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostThu Sep 14, 2023 6:19 am

So the statement
Ellory Yu wrote:
FrostKiwi wrote:Is Blackmagic's manual wrong?

No. The BMVA 12G 7” will record to max 4K 30fps DCI when fed through SDI and 4K 25fps DCI when fed through HDMI. The 5.7K image will be scaled down to 4K DCI in the max resolution case, or to whatever port, resolution, and codec selected.

Was based on the manual, which was probably not updated, and
proves, that it can record at the resolution after all?

Did I get that right?
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostThu Sep 14, 2023 1:22 pm

FrostKiwi wrote:Did I get that right?


Yes, it will work.
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostFri Sep 22, 2023 5:36 pm

It work over, with my Fuji h2 I can record braw 8k.


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSun Oct 01, 2023 10:03 am

Hi Folks,

I've updated GH6 body firmware to 2.3 (which writes braw files) and connected to Blackmagic 5 12G recorder and when I choose BRAW codec (whatever version/quality settings) I get "codec not supported" message on the recorder screen. There's no live display also.

HDMI RAW output is ON and timecode hdmi output is also ON in the camera.

When I choose ProRes or DHxHR I can record files and all works well.

Can anyone please help me out?

Best, Jacek
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostTue Oct 03, 2023 3:20 pm

red767 wrote:Hi Folks,

I've updated GH6 body firmware to 2.3 (which writes braw files) and connected to Blackmagic 5 12G recorder and when I choose BRAW codec (whatever version/quality settings) I get "codec not supported" message on the recorder screen. There's no live display also.

HDMI RAW output is ON and timecode hdmi output is also ON in the camera.

When I choose ProRes or DHxHR I can record files and all works well.

Can anyone please help me out?

Best, Jacek


Have you updated your Video Assist to at least Blackmagic Video Assist 3.12 Update?
-> https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/suppor ... monitoring

And you should read the user manual p. 45:
https://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/ ... Manual.pdf
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostTue Oct 03, 2023 3:39 pm

> Have you updated your Video Assist to at least Blackmagic Video Assist 3.12 Update?

Yes! That helped. Works fine now. Thank you!
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSat Oct 21, 2023 11:42 am

Went to the local camera store to test out the GH6 + Black Magic View Assist 7" 12G recording before committing to buy.
Setup: I recorded at Q5, the lowest Quality Constant Quality. Res and Framerate: 17:9 5.7k 60p. I used this UHS-II SD-Card, 256gb V90 (Amazon Link for reference). All firmwares up to date, 3.12 on the View Assist, 2.3 on the GH6. All V-Log, all using Panasonic's official V-Log to V.709 LUT (Was already built into the View Assist).

The video and audio is completely glitched, see comparison video below. The BlackMagic View Assist did not warn about dropped frames with the red exclamation mark at this Quality level. (It did warn at Q0)

The resulting bitrate hovers at 1050 Mbit/s or 131 MBytes/s. I guess (?) this is above what SD card can handle, considering the V90 rating? But then again, the View Assist didn't warn about write speeds with the Red Exclamation mark. There was a warning about high temperature though. When the GH6 records this natively, it records at 300Mbit/s or 37 MBytes/s.

Bringing me to my question:
  • Can someone confirm, that these glitches are in line with an insufficient write speeds?
  • If this is true, can someone recommend an SD-Card that can handle the View Assist's data rate?This
  • was a UHS-II card, but the UHS-III standard is already announced. Will the View Assist support UHS-III?



dondidnod wrote:Red Frame Tech said:

I come to the same conclusion as the reviewer you linked: Like he, I prefer the way skin looks, as recorded by the View Assist. GH6's color shifts the skin tones too much to green. Maybe it's just like with contrast, one usually prefers the contrast-ier image in a direct comparison. Maybe it's the same here, preference being the less green skin tone in a direct comparison.

Either way, I would like to use the View Assist for workflow reasons (GH6's USB-C file transfer is bugged with no firmware fix in sight, I need XLR inputs, syncing in post is a nightmare with unending sync-drift, Panasonic DMW-XLR1's mount sucks), so I still would like to buy a View Assist.
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostSun Oct 22, 2023 10:34 pm

Blackmagic devices can be finicky where media is concerned. Faster doesn’t necessarily mean better. The Sandisk UHSII cards aren’t approved media for any codec or compression. The list for approved 5.7k cards is lean and only mentions a couple cards.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/faq/59028

Good Luck
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostMon Oct 23, 2023 12:58 am

Howard Roll wrote:The list for approved 5.7k cards is lean and only mentions a couple cards.

Many thanks! Should have checked that before getting the SD card ( ;   ;  )
According to Apple (Page 24) the fastest listed BlackMagic Tested SD Card with 2160p ProRes 422 HQ up to 60 fps corresponds to a 1768 MegaBits/s datarate, which is far above my ~1000 MegaBit per second resulting BRAW. So I guess getting the fastest on that list should keep safe I guess (?). Too bad, only 256gb cards (Angelbird AV Pro MK2 V90 SDXC 256GB, ProGrade Digital SDXC UHS-II V90 300R 256GB) and nothing bigger is supported.

Additionally, can you confirm or deny ↓
FrostKiwi wrote:
  • Can someone confirm, that these glitches are in line with an insufficient write speeds?
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostMon Oct 23, 2023 1:17 am

Be aware that if you do not use the GH6 audio but directly to an external recorder like the Video Assist ( recording the audio ) there will be a sync difference due to the delay in the HDMI. ATOMOS have a sync reference feature and not sure if BM have one for the Video Assist. Delay is about 7 frames for most of my GH cameras

Not sure what your problems are with the Panasonic DMW-XLR1 but I have used mine with the GH5, GH5S and GH6 with no problems including recording to the ATOMOS Ninja V ( including ProRes RAW ). I too record 5.7K 60P most of the time but now stay with the internal h265 Vlog.
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostMon Oct 23, 2023 1:36 am

SkierEvans wrote:Does this apply to the HDDelay is about 7 frames for most of my GH cameras

Thx for the heads up! Yeah, I'm aware of that delay. Now wouldn't it be nice to specify this in the view assist interface to not have to resync the XLR inputs in post to the HDMI RAW Output...

SkierEvans wrote:Not sure what your problems are with the Panasonic DMW-XLR1

Offtopic short version: Nothing wrong with the recording, but: Locking mechanism is a lever, not a screw down. Even after being locked there is a slight wiggle to it. If you mount a mic on top of the DMW-XLR1's hot shoe, that connecting hotshoe lever's pressure is just not enough and it becomes too top-heavy, causing a back-and-forth motion when you walk, translating into a slightly bobble sound, my shockmount can't make disappear.
Now of course you don't have to mount it that way and can use a smallrig cage, but the DMW-XLR1 is too tall to amount a top handle on the cage. For everything I mentioned there is a workaround, the XLR input on the view assist seemed like a simpler solution.
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostMon Oct 23, 2023 1:52 am

The ATOMOS comes with a small cable to check sync with camera then you can enter this value in the table on the ATOMOS so everything is in sync. Also specify which channel audio is recorded to .

All my shoots are on a tripod so do not have the problem with XLR unit. Run with Rode NT2 mic most of the time on the unit.

I have compared internal Vlog with shooting RAW, using Assimilate to convert the ProRes RAW. Did not think it was worth it for my shoots and started to use the highlight exposure metering on the cameras. Effectively grabbing max dynamic range anyway.

Use CFexpress media now too most of the time on GH6.
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostMon Oct 23, 2023 4:11 am

SkierEvans wrote:enter this value in the table on the ATOMOS so everything is in sync.

That's very nice! Something possibly supported with the Video Assist as well? :?: Possibly with a future update?
SkierEvans wrote:Did not think it was worth it for my shoots

Neither do I. Delivering to YouTube, it doesn't really matter to me. In fact, it's a bit worse. The noise profile changed slightly for the worse going to HDMI RAW Out, even though V-Log on the GH6 disables all processing by default, so it should be the same as an internal recording. It's more about the workflow of having XLR, Recording, big monitor all in one package.
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostMon Oct 23, 2023 2:17 pm

By the way nice video. FYI I am a maths grad too. Applied math degree and Masters in Atmospheric physics. Thesis was modelling ozone distribution on the world. Long time ago though 1963.
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostWed Oct 25, 2023 12:01 am

SkierEvans wrote:By the way nice video.


Many thanks for the kind words <3
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Re: Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 5.7k recording

PostWed Oct 25, 2023 3:13 am

Can anyone confirm or deny this video's glitches being a consequence of SD Card Write compatibility and not something else like overheating or a bad HDMI cable? (There was no dropped frames warning as per the attached manual page 33 screenshot)

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