Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

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Denny Smith

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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostWed Apr 15, 2020 9:53 pm

I agree Eric, the Shuttle is a good device, works well for most applications. I also used the HDDR to get its outputs into a Tricaster switcher for capturing VHS tapes, worked well, but the Kudos NRS50 offers video proctor clean up the tape, correct ant color balance issues and provides a direct SD/SDI output, which I ran to a pro DVCam recorder, and took its USB/FireWire out to a Mac running a FCP NLE as capture software. This worked nicely also, and quick to setup. I could start this up, and go do something else while it ran.
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Eric-Jan

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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 11:41 am

Thank you, for your extended answer, although i'm happy with the results of the Intensity Shuttle, i still look for a more automated workflow, with hardware only,I recently bought a Video Assist 5" (6G) mainly to use it as a recorder for my Lumix G7, but i'm trying also to use it for VHS capture with a DVD recorder, which has a HDMI output so i can use it as a passthrough for a VCR or camcorder, i don't think the HDCP is a problem in my case, but my guess is that the "handshake" of HDMI is a big problem, i'm going to try out some things for that in the future....
I did some research on the Tricaster (switcher) what i understand from it is: it's a dedicated pc system, with switcher hard and software, with as well old analog legacy as also new digital solutions,
For my situation i hope to find a hardware device that will convert component video to a HDMI connection, what BMD offers is mostly SDI, or is the h.264 Recorder, which needs a PC/Laptop again, other non BMD devices are more of a 50/50 gamble to work, or will give quality loss, so in short... i look for a push-button VHS transfer to file solution to Prores422 LT or straight to h.264 "format"
I did search the product line of BMD, but could not find something, or did i overlook something ?

btw. HDDR ? as a device ? i have a Panasonic DMR-EH63 which records to HDD, it has HDMI which will not work to output from, and i guess it records to MPEG2 onto the HDD.
Only other solution i see is to convert the RGB SCART output to HDMI and force a resolution setting somehow on the HDMI output, a lot of European VCR's have RGB output, which was used for CRT tv's or decoder boxes.
I find HDMI very hard to use with most capture devices, HDMI from camera's is no problem. Is HDCP always switched on, although no copyrighted protected media recording is "in play" ?
My main goal is to avoid the use of composite or s-video connections....
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)
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Denny Smith

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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 4:29 pm

Eric, you can get a BMD Mini Converter SDI to HDMI 6G for under $200, which should take the SDI output and convert it to HDMI, that said, your VA will take a SDI signal in and output a HDMI also.
The TriCaster is a PITA to get set up, the HD Analog model we have, (newer all digital models are way expensive compared to ATEMs), and requires SDI to analog converters for our camera feeds (Ursa Studio and Micro Broadcast Cameras). We are adding a ATEM Mini Pro to the mix, which I hope will eliminate some converters.

I loved working with analog video, I guess because this is what I learned and used most of my professional career, as an ENG cameraman, and later field director/producer. Digital is so less forgiving, everything has to be sync’d just right. My home studio is a mix of older legacy analog pro gear and newer digital monitors and cameras. I currently have an old AJA IO for analog to digital conversions along with the Kudos 50.

You got me to thinking about the BMD Shuttle system and I am seriously looking at either a UltraStudio 4k Thunderbolt 2 HDMI SDI Video Capture Interface that has HDMI 2 and USB/Thudnerbolt IO or a new UltraStudio 4K Mini, which I could use with the ATEM Mini Pro to get a SDI input/output. The Shuttle is nice, but for me the lack of BNC on the interface will not work very well, as all my gear and cabling is BNC Analog or SD/HD SDI runs, and I dislike BNC/RCA adapters which are a PITA for me, always coming loose.

Thanks for your perspective on this subject, enjoyable as always my friend. Take care and be safe!
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Eric-Jan

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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 5:59 pm

Have not yet SDI output source, but now i got the idea of using The Mini Converter Analog to SDI converter from BMD, because the BMD Video Assist has also a SDI input... only thing... will the VA accept component PAL progressive..
edit > I just read the pdf... it does only (for me) 625i will the recorded file (over SDI) on the VA be in progressive mode ?
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)
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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 6:36 pm

Since it will record as a ProRes file, it should be the same resolution as you input, the VA accepts a 625i50 PAL signal, and it should record as 625i50, as the VA dis not do a up/down or cross conversion, except it will down convert a UHD signal to HD.
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Eric-Jan

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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 6:58 pm

Thank you ! i guess now is the time for me to buy the Studio version of Davinci :) ..... for the de-interlace option, I like Resolve already for it's workflow and options like crop and transform in the user interface,
and noticed in the latest version also the h.265 codec addition... nice...
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)
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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 7:08 pm

Yes, and Ver 16 seems to require less computer resources over the previous versions. I am going to try and download the Ver 16 on my IMac 27, and see if it will work. I managed to get Ver 14 on it, so it should load after I do a OS update on it.
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Eric-Jan

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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 9:14 pm

I bought some time ago a 2nd hand MBP: MacBookPro11,3 (15" quad core i7 2.3GHz 16GB RAM 500GB SSD)
it came with Catalina, and thought this would be great for continuing using Davinci, because I got stuck with my other MBP with less specs..... and Sierra OS.
So I'm happy that I can use Catalina on the 2nd hand MBP, and continue to update Davinci this way, and still can use Thunderbolt 2.

Btw.... I have a genlock in a Commodore CDTV ! :)

I get the impression you like the analog broadcasting "way" and not the digital "way" ?
I thought the digital version of broadcasting was easier to do, because you don't have to couple everything to a genlock.
Editing on tape could be done with a flying erase head, although I noticed that it was not done frame exact...
Digital was an improvement for Never The Same Colour I thought....
I remember there was a big difference in quality watching US tv series that came from tape or from celluloid on the Dutch tv here.
What I notice that most professional VHS vcr's don't even have component video output...
Also VHS to digital: contrast and colour is mostly not correct, so I use the pipet (black + white) function in Davinci, which puts all nicely on track and only needs some fine adjustment, with Davinci it's a easy workflow, which I never found as easy to achieve with other editors.
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)
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Denny Smith

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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 11:52 pm

Yes, all good points. Digital still needs genlock to reduce any delay in Broadcast video switching, but yes, in many ways, digital is better, I just learned on analog, tape based systems, but the newer digital recorders are much better. VHS is not a professional level system, but was primarily consumer system, and SVideo was used in some higher VHS setups aimed at the wedding market. Sony Betacam and DigiCam were the Broadcast standards. Betacam was the first system to have component outputs, along with its little brother DVCam. Before that Broadcasting started out with Reel to Reel video tape units that were huge, then replaced by smaller reel to reel, I started out running 1/2-inch reel systems. Cassette video tapes started out with 3/4 Umatic, which was Composite BNC only, but had balanced audio connections, then 1/2 p-inch Beta was developed, followed quickly with BetaCam format, which was a higher quality version of Betta.

So with each improvement things got better but also more complex and complicated. Do I want to go back to tape based systems, no way, too big, cameras too heavy... :roll:
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Eric-Jan

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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostFri Apr 17, 2020 10:22 am

Thank you for your answers ! i guess i now have most of it "lined up" in my perspective, i'm only slightly confused by the use of the DV tape/compression format(s) it's mostly disliked in consumer equipment because of color loss, because of the DV compression, but i understand intra frame is used just like ProRes422... this because i also have some Hi8 footage i want to transfer with a digital8 camera, by DV or composite, i now know, the color loss is most likely caused by wrong blacklevel settings which comes from the NTSC standard, so this should not be valid for PAL equipment, so will DV/Firewire still be a better option for transfer, and will composite give quality loss, due to "it's nature" (tech specs) ? my ES35V has also a DV input, and the ES35V i connect by component to the Intensity Shuttle. I understand also that Hi8 was one of the best analog tape formats, exept maybe not because of the drop-out rate..... so in short, will DV in my case be better then using the composite output ?

Thanks !
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)
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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostFri Apr 17, 2020 5:05 pm

Eric, 8mm Video tape and Hi8 are still both analog formats, while Later Hi8 added digital audio. Then in 1999 DV, or a Digital Video come out, using the same 8mm tape, followed by DVCam for professional applications which improved digital converter and improved tape recording syste,

The 8mm video format refers informally to three related videocassette formats for the NTSC and PAL/SECAM television systems. These are the original Video8 (analog recording) format and its improved successor Hi8 (analog video and analog audio but with provision for digital audio), as well as a more recent digital recording format known as Digital8.

Digital8 is a form of the industry standard DV codec, recorded on Hi8 media. In engineering terms, Digital8 and MiniDV are indistinguishable at the logical format level. To store the digitally encoded audio/video on a standard NTSC Video8 cassette, the tape must be run at double the Hi8 speed.

Sone DV decks could still play 8 and Hi8 tspes, and these decks can be sued to quickly convert the analog signal to digital and output it via FireWire to a computer NLE, which would be better quality than playing out a composite or SVideo signal, then converting it. But this depends on the quality of the DV deck being used, the higher end models being better. The issues with black levels on NTSC tapes is easily corrected by the Kudos 50/60 TBC, which can adjust the black level, and would give a better conversion to digital than the DV deck FireWire output.

But for outputting my digital DVCam tapes, I get the same quality from good DV Cam tape (original shot and exposed correctly) out via FireWire as I do going analog to the Kudos TBC, which I use normally for analog tape, so their is no real advantage to outputting DV tape as analog and then going back to digital with a Shuttle conversion. I would output the DVs via the DV deck’s FireWire to the computer. Everything stays digital this way, and no sync issues. This should get you the best capture.
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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostSat Apr 18, 2020 5:17 am

I hope my expose’ was not too much Eric?
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Eric-Jan

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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostSat Apr 18, 2020 10:08 am

Well... :) the more i dive into it.... i see more options, i'm still amazed by the quality?/stability of component video out, for VHS it's still my best option, although people on Videohelp or Digitalfaq are not convinced by that, i don't need to transfer to MPEG2 for that, the component output goes into the Shuttle and that works great, in combination of capturing it into Prores422 LT is more than enough, my DV transfers will also do good for now, to make things even easier i hope that component out of my ES35V which works for the Shuttle, will also work for the BMD Mini Converter Analog to SDI, (although no TBC in it) this looks like a good and cost effective device, and this should work with my Video Assist 5" (6G) i hope, any other HDMI device than a Lumix G7, does not work on de HDMI of the VA, although these other devices will work normal on a Feelworld monitor, using the Feelworld as (HDMI) passthrough for the VA does not work also.
My view on this all is that using large expensive professional TBC's is overkill, too expensive and there's only little gain on already low definition VHS footage. so getting a stable sync signal is most important in this whole story, i think it's worth the trouble, not the money, With exeption for HDMI... that's a lot of trouble :)
Sofar, luck, other users & BMD have helped me a lot :)
Last edited by Eric-Jan on Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)
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Denny Smith

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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostSat Apr 18, 2020 4:12 pm

Good, go with what works for you, that is what matters. I have always had good luck with component and SViseo (which was the first step towards component back in UMatic days. I think with the HDMI directly to the VA from a VCR, HDCP is blocking the signal, even though you may not be using a commercial restricted tape. You might be able to use a HDMI splitter to strip off the HDCP scheme? I have read others have had luck doing that to get a VHS/VCR decks to playback to ATEMs via HDMI. VHS decks with HDMI have the HDCP scheme to protect copying commercial movie tapes, as part of the license to get commercial movies on VHS tape format.
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Eric-Jan

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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostSun Apr 19, 2020 11:52 am

Thank you, i now understand that only certain selected devices of that kind are able to do that, that seems to be the only other option i have for my VA, thank you, again a step closer to my goal, i'll keep continue trying, and experimenting.
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)
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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 12:39 pm

I'm now thinking of using the BM Analog to SDI converter, i hope it will soon come available here, because component output works already on my Intensity Shuttle, and i hope it will work with the conversion to SDI for my BM Video Assist, i guess this will open even more roads for me this way, i'm very happy i discovered BMD soft/hardware.
Last edited by Eric-Jan on Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
UltraStudio Mini Recorder, Intensity Shuttle, ATEM Mini, Assist 6G. Davinci Resolve 15 > Sierra, Resolve 16 > Catalina. Media Express, MacX Video Converter Pro, UniConverter (Using Apple OS 32 & 64 bit on MacBook Pro hardware)
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Denny Smith

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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 6:23 pm

Thanks Eric, will do.
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alexordanis

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Re: Intensity Shuttle VHS recording

PostWed May 06, 2020 12:05 am

I've been looking to digitize my families VHS archive during this COVID shut down as a way to stay busy and I have access to Snell & Wilcox CVR250 that I bought for a really good price.

I am having some trouble initializing the unit as I believe it is setup for a rollcall scenario.

By some luck, is there anyone who can point me in the right direction to get the unit operational in a stand alone fashion?
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