BM12K Rig Setup Costs Need Help ?

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Staffordfuhs

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BM12K Rig Setup Costs Need Help ?

PostSat Dec 02, 2023 8:58 pm

Ok, considering the 12K is on sale but man looking at the prices of the gear that I add on to the device that is when things get pretty crazy. So trying to find affordable batteries seems like some are $300 to $500 just for the batteries. I am trying to get this done as less expensive as possible.

1. BM Camera --- 4999.99
2. BM PL to Canon Adapter $175
3. Black Magic Vplate Batterie Holder $100
4. Batteries ?? Not Sure $300 Seems very high.. I want to get maybe 1 to 4 hours of filming out in field
5. BM viewfinder $1600 --- Way too expensive...

Did I miss anything, curious on what I could save money on ? Also what else I need ?

Jay
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John Brawley

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Re: BM12K Rig Setup Costs Need Help ?

PostSat Dec 02, 2023 10:37 pm

Media?

What is the “canon” adaptor ?

Tripod?

Do you have mattebox? Follow focus system? Video transmitting?

Powering only the camera and maybe a viewfinder, a 95wh battery will last about 90 mins. You can get 180’s but remember these can be difficult to fly with.

You may think the EVF is expensive but trust me it’s cheap for the quality and size.

There are other options, but they have an inferior image, are larger, and clunkier to use with the camera and don’t have the integrated functions like the right false colour mode and other viewfinder functions that “talk” to the camera. I’ve only seen the equal to the image from the EVF on 10K viewfinders.

If you NEED an EVF, then this is the very best one. If you just need a monitor then that’s different and we can talk about what that might be.


It’s a big boy camera, and needs some big boy infrastructure around it to get the most from it.

JB
John Brawley ACS
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rick.lang

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Re: BM12K Rig Setup Costs Need Help ?

PostSat Dec 02, 2023 11:17 pm

Agree with John’s comments. Depending upon how you shoot and how critical the footage might be, you could also look at the Blackmagic Video Assist 12G 7” monitor that I use every shoot (connects via SDI or HDMI) as that monitor gives you a great deal more detailed information about what you are shooting than the camera’s 5” flip-out screen. And you can use it for recording ProRes 422 HQ video so you have a backup if the camera media fails to record properly. If you go that way, you’ll possibly need a couple (or more) of these NP-F970 batteries from Sony:

https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/hand ... rs/np-f970

If you don’t want to travel, you can get a 250 Wh battery will may last through your shoots. Mine is from Cinegears.

You’ll need a good large camera bag to carry bits and pieces (not anything like a small photography bag) and one or more hard cases such as Nanuk for lenses etc.

Have you also considered recording your own audio externally? There are a lot of recorders to consider depending on how many mics you plan to use. I use the Sound Devices MixPre-6 II which has been flawless but it only has 4 XLR inputs and I could use more nowadays. Your camera also has XLR inputs of course which I use for a shotgun mic and a lavelier mic. My mics are all Sennheiser but there are many brands to choose from.

Speaking of mics, you can get lots of guidance here from people using a variety of mics for every budget.

What about your tripod and related gear like sliders, jibs, booms, and so on? You can rent them since really good support costs nearly as much as the camera (or more).

Lights? I think most people rent but some here have their own lights.

Rick Lang
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rick.lang

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Re: BM12K Rig Setup Costs Need Help ?

PostSat Dec 02, 2023 11:32 pm

Jay, I hope you can forgive me for piling on all those costs that can significantly exceed the initial cost of the camera. The thing to keep you sane is that you don’t need everything right away; when there’s a need, you gradually add to your kit. It took years to put my kit together and I still cannot afford a good tripod and better lenses. Still dreaming. Best of luck with that great BMP12K.
Rick Lang
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Staffordfuhs

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Re: BM12K Rig Setup Costs Need Help ?

PostSun Dec 03, 2023 12:11 am

NO Problem guys, I was going to use this for wildlife. I do have SSDs with connections/monts. A focus follower and some other mounts that I already own. The EF mount for my 150-600 or 800mm lenses for wildlife. Right now leaning toward the 6K models but thought at the price reduction of the 12K it might be doable. A R5c is about $3500 to 4K though a different monster the 6K might be the closest thing for this. As a few other people on these forums have noted they are using the 12K for wildlife for the 120/240 fps slow motion which is impressive especially with the BRAW.
Really do like the BM image quality just all the add ONS are a bit much.

Thanks again,
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robedge

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Re: BM12K Rig Setup Costs Need Help ?

PostSun Dec 03, 2023 12:27 am

I think that you're on the right track. Cost out everything before deciding on what camera to buy. Many purchasers of an "inexpensive" Pocket 4K have discovered that there can be quite a gap between the initial cost and the outfitted cost. The "bigger" the camera, the bigger the gap :)
Last edited by robedge on Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Staffordfuhs

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Re: BM12K Rig Setup Costs Need Help ?

PostSun Dec 03, 2023 1:16 am

robedge wrote:I think that you're the right track. Cost out everything before deciding on what camera to buy. Many purchasers of an "inexpensive" Pocket 4K have discovered that there can be quite a gap between the initial cost and the outfitted cost. The "bigger" the camera, the bigger the gap :)



No Doubt.. I priced it out an am shocked. I do understand this is probably for high end professional work but thought maybe I could stretch it ...ahhh My desiressss.... Maybe someday.
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rick.lang

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Re: BM12K Rig Setup Costs Need Help ?

PostSun Dec 03, 2023 1:54 am

I know what you mean, the BMCC6K would be fine on the tripod I have, but the UM4.6K requires a rental of a larger tripod. I have a lead on another used tripod that may be an option for me. I need to check that out as you’ve inspired me to take used gear more seriously. Some folks here have provided unused gear another forever home.
Rick Lang
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Michael59

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Re: BM12K Rig Setup Costs Need Help ?

PostMon Dec 04, 2023 3:09 pm

You are at a very Critical Moment .. It is very Difficult to give you the Right Answer , as this is very personal . The Big Boys , and CInema Teams , often , if not always , Rent their equipment , and do not buy it .. its Better , in many Ways .. Sure Mister JB knows a bit more than I do in that Domain .. Maybe WB .. own their equipment ( not even certain ) , but they Can .. As we are individuals , we do not have the same Budget ( unfortunately .. maybe some day , with good inspiration , much work and some luck .. ) . You have to do Judicious choices ..

With my own and small experience , it's Always Better to do a small Effort , do yourself a Favor , and do the Best Choice for the " Heart " of the System , which is , basically , the Camera , and the 12k is a good one ( a Very good one .. ).. and you'll have the pleasure to make fantastic images .. If you already own some lenses for Wildlife .. it's good . About the lenses , and I think about Primes , Zeiss makes very good ones , also for Still Photography .. the Optical Qualities are top notch , with often a somehow artistic look .Smalllrig makes good adaptable , and slightly extensible plastic Gears to transform those lenses into " Cinema lenses " . I use their thirteen millimeters wide gears , they are wide , remain well in place , and well aligned , very good .. Also Zeiss lenses have hard stops .. And the cost of a cinema lens and a still lens is not he same .. Yes , batteries are a bit expensive , but you need them .. same for the recording media , CFast cards ..

" Lens Breathing " , yes , if you work in Hollywood , it may be a problem .. I do not , I should have ..

The BM Viewfinder is very good , if you sometimes lose the eyecup , I have a very simple solution ..

From what I see , for the other accessories , like a Mattebox , or a Follow Focus , you can go from a reasonable price to twenty times the amount , if not more .. so a judicious choice is necessary .. A Rolls Royce is good , but a Beetle also has four wheels , a steering wheel , and brakes ..

For the Tripod , I own a Manfrotto 546 B , which is good , and a Sachtler FSB 8 Fluidhead , fluid , and with no really discernable backlash , they are reasonably priced and of good quality ... Of course , I know that there is much , much better , there is almost no limit ..but I am not WB .. Just " Michael B. ... "

Also , a " Fast plate adapter " like the Sony VCT-14 , or an equivalent , coupled with a shoulder rig , is good , you can go very fast from Shoulder to Tripod and vice-versa .. For nature and Wildlife , it could be useful .. if not necessary ..

For Geared Heads and other accessories at a reasonable price , you have " ProAim " , I believe they are located in Belgium , ( free advertising ) .

Take your Time , do a bit of " Brain Storming " , and go ahead ..

" Our Eyes are the Best Camera in the World , our Ears the Best Microphones , our Brain the Best Editing Suite , in the Timeline rests our Memory , what remains after we have Cut Everything " Claude Lelouch ..

Simple , Beautiful , and maybe the Best MasterClass about Life and Cinema .. For Mister Claude , he discovered that early in his life , the most important Actor in a movie , is the Camera Itself .. So , decide on a performing and efficient Actor ...

Take it easy , and have Fun ..

Mike .. ( Michael Bros ... )
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: BM12K Rig Setup Costs Need Help ?

PostMon Dec 04, 2023 4:32 pm

Staffordfuhs wrote:Ok, considering the 12K is on sale but man looking at the prices of the gear that I add on to the device that is when things get pretty crazy. So trying to find affordable batteries seems like some are $300 to $500 just for the batteries. I am trying to get this done as less expensive as possible.

1. BM Camera --- 4999.99
2. BM PL to Canon Adapter $175
3. Black Magic Vplate Batterie Holder $100
4. Batteries ?? Not Sure $300 Seems very high.. I want to get maybe 1 to 4 hours of filming out in field
5. BM viewfinder $1600 --- Way too expensive...

Did I miss anything, curious on what I could save money on ? Also what else I need ?

Jay


As you appear to be very constrained by budget, you might consider Blackmagic's less-expensive URSA Broadcast G2, instead of the URSA Mini Pro 12K. The URSA Broadcast G2 is a very good _6K_ camera.

Unlike the Mini Pro 12K, the Broadcast G2 can record both BRAW and ProRes. The Broadcast G2 includes many options which are extra-cost for a Mini Pro 12K. Take a look at the "what's included" list for both cameras; there's quite a difference: EF lens mount, B4 lens mount, shoulder pad, top handle, V-mount battery plate, EVF mounting plate, etc.

The Broadcast G2 can use the same EVF (highly recommended!) as the Mini Pro 12K. The included B4 lens adapter gives you the option to work with pro B4 zoom lenses (for some wildlife shooting, almost a necessity).

Instead of recording to an external SSD (with its inherently fragile USB cable), seriously consider using internal CFAST2 cards (the ones on Blackmagic's tested/recommended list)! Don't cheap-out on batteries. And get a very good tripod. And get a "raincoat" designed to fit a broadcast camera.

Cheers.
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Staffordfuhs

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Re: BM12K Rig Setup Costs Need Help ?

PostMon Dec 04, 2023 11:04 pm

Michael59 wrote:You are at a very Critical Moment .. It is very Difficult to give you the Right Answer , as this is very personal . The Big Boys , and CInema Teams , often , if not always , Rent their equipment , and do not buy it .. its Better , in many Ways .. Sure Mister JB knows a bit more than I do in that Domain .. Maybe WB .. own their equipment ( not even certain ) , but they Can .. As we are individuals , we do not have the same Budget ( unfortunately .. maybe some day , with good inspiration , much work and some luck .. ) . You have to do Judicious choices ..

With my own and small experience , it's Always Better to do a small Effort , do yourself a Favor , and do the Best Choice for the " Heart " of the System , which is , basically , the Camera , and the 12k is a good one ( a Very good one .. ).. and you'll have the pleasure to make fantastic images .. If you already own some lenses for Wildlife .. it's good . About the lenses , and I think about Primes , Zeiss makes very good ones , also for Still Photography .. the Optical Qualities are top notch , with often a somehow artistic look .Smalllrig makes good adaptable , and slightly extensible plastic Gears to transform those lenses into " Cinema lenses " . I use their thirteen millimeters wide gears , they are wide , remain well in place , and well aligned , very good .. Also Zeiss lenses have hard stops .. And the cost of a cinema lens and a still lens is not he same .. Yes , batteries are a bit expensive , but you need them .. same for the recording media , CFast cards ..

" Lens Breathing " , yes , if you work in Hollywood , it may be a problem .. I do not , I should have ..

The BM Viewfinder is very good , if you sometimes lose the eyecup , I have a very simple solution ..

From what I see , for the other accessories , like a Mattebox , or a Follow Focus , you can go from a reasonable price to twenty times the amount , if not more .. so a judicious choice is necessary .. A Rolls Royce is good , but a Beetle also has four wheels , a steering wheel , and brakes ..

For the Tripod , I own a Manfrotto 546 B , which is good , and a Sachtler FSB 8 Fluidhead , fluid , and with no really discernable backlash , they are reasonably priced and of good quality ... Of course , I know that there is much , much better , there is almost no limit ..but I am not WB .. Just " Michael B. ... "

Also , a " Fast plate adapter " like the Sony VCT-14 , or an equivalent , coupled with a shoulder rig , is good , you can go very fast from Shoulder to Tripod and vice-versa .. For nature and Wildlife , it could be useful .. if not necessary ..

For Geared Heads and other accessories at a reasonable price , you have " ProAim " , I believe they are located in Belgium , ( free advertising ) .

Take your Time , do a bit of " Brain Storming " , and go ahead ..

" Our Eyes are the Best Camera in the World , our Ears the Best Microphones , our Brain the Best Editing Suite , in the Timeline rests our Memory , what remains after we have Cut Everything " Claude Lelouch ..

Simple , Beautiful , and maybe the Best MasterClass about Life and Cinema .. For Mister Claude , he discovered that early in his life , the most important Actor in a movie , is the Camera Itself .. So , decide on a performing and efficient Actor ...

Take it easy , and have Fun ..

Mike .. ( Michael Bros ... )

Thanks again for all the information !
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Staffordfuhs

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Re: BM12K Rig Setup Costs Need Help ?

PostMon Dec 04, 2023 11:11 pm

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Staffordfuhs wrote:Ok, considering the 12K is on sale but man looking at the prices of the gear that I add on to the device that is when things get pretty crazy. So trying to find affordable batteries seems like some are $300 to $500 just for the batteries. I am trying to get this done as less expensive as possible.

1. BM Camera --- 4999.99
2. BM PL to Canon Adapter $175
3. Black Magic Vplate Batterie Holder $100
4. Batteries ?? Not Sure $300 Seems very high.. I want to get maybe 1 to 4 hours of filming out in field
5. BM viewfinder $1600 --- Way too expensive...

Did I miss anything, curious on what I could save money on ? Also what else I need ?

Jay


As you appear to be very constrained by budget, you might consider Blackmagic's less-expensive URSA Broadcast G2, instead of the URSA Mini Pro 12K. The URSA Broadcast G2 is a very good _6K_ camera.

Unlike the Mini Pro 12K, the Broadcast G2 can record both BRAW and ProRes. The Broadcast G2 includes many options which are extra-cost for a Mini Pro 12K. Take a look at the "what's included" list for both cameras; there's quite a difference: EF lens mount, B4 lens mount, shoulder pad, top handle, V-mount battery plate, EVF mounting plate, etc.

The Broadcast G2 can use the same EVF (highly recommended!) as the Mini Pro 12K. The included B4 lens adapter gives you the option to work with pro B4 zoom lenses (for some wildlife shooting, almost a necessity).

Instead of recording to an external SSD (with its inherently fragile USB cable), seriously consider using internal CFAST2 cards (the ones on Blackmagic's tested/recommended list)! Don't cheap-out on batteries. And get a very good tripod. And get a "raincoat" designed to fit a broadcast camera.

Cheers.

Thanks again for all the information will consider it !

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