BMCC6K FF has serious noise problems!

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Vitaly

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BMCC6K FF has serious noise problems!

PostWed Feb 21, 2024 9:12 pm

Hi there,

I decided to share my opinion after using the BMCC6K FF. I have been a long time user of Blackmagic cameras. I shoot events, weddings, birthdays, presentations, business interviews, corporate videos, advertising for private businesses, etc. For these purposes, I really liked these cameras. Not long ago I bought a new camera BMCC6K FF. I have experience using it for about 2 months. I discovered some shortcomings, such as Gyro stabilization not working correctly in 4K DCI, 2K and HD modes. There is no way to shoot on a full sensor at a high frame rate without turning on the slow motion mode. The HD and 2K modes are not suitable for use at all, since they capture the image from a small area of the matrix and because of this the quality is very poor. If it were possible to use PRORES, it would be possible to shoot HD and 2K at high frame rates and use the full matrix.
Otherwise these modes are useless. In fact, we have a camera with a full matrix, but we can use it limited.

Poor sound recording from the gun microphone via the 3.5 connector. It happens that no sound is recorded at all. The microphone I use is Sennheiser MKE 600.

But the most important thing is the noise. I understand the company's position as to why they did this. But on previous camera models there is no such noise. For example, BMPCC4K works great with ISO from 100 - 3200. In a new camera you can use ISO 100-640 then 1250-1600. Values above ISO 1600 are generally not suitable for shooting. And because of this, the focus assistant is useless with such noise; it focuses on the noise, and you have to turn the focus at random.

The manufacturer explains this as follows:

- To reduce noise in darker images, you need to use lower ISO values that provide greater dynamic range in the shadows of the image, such as 1250, 400, or lower.

- If the image is too dark at this stage, you will need to add light using light sources or open the aperture as wide as possible to allow as much light as possible to reach the sensor.

- If you're using ISO3200 to make a dark image bright it may not give the best results, ISO3200 provides more dynamic range in the highlights than in the shadows, meaning you'll get more detail in a bright sky or when looking at a subject. who is in front of the sun, for example.

- If the image is too dark at this stage, you will need to add light using light sources or open the aperture as wide as possible to allow as much light as possible to reach the sensor. Focus Assistant uses contrast between pixels, among other methods, to determine what is in focus and what is not. Noise can also reflect changes in contrast, and so any focus assist/edge highlighting feature on any monitor or camera will eventually perceive noise as being "in focus».

- If the scene you're shooting is too dark for the camera's sensor, increasing the ISO will increase the amount of noise in the image. Lower ISO values like 400 will work better in low-light scenes with a lot of shadows, but you'll always want some part of your scene to be well-lit to get a sharp image.

- Noise in the image will also be more noticeable in the Cinema dynamic range rather than in the Video dynamic range. If you add contrast to your recorded images, it will likely reduce the amount of noise.

- DaVinci Resolve also has a very powerful noise reduction plugin that can reduce noise in an image.


What the manufacturer wrote is clear. But a question arises. Why then 2 native ISOs? If there is only one worker, is it 400? Why should I shoot in dark places with a low ISO in order to make the shadows even darker, which are already not visible in the dark? By dark, I don't mean a completely dark room.
I want to say that, for example, shooting in a hotel room across from the window in natural light becomes problematic. Since I cannot set the ISO value to 3200 or 2000-2500. 1250 for example, with ordinary room light it can be dark. Previous camera models did not have these problems. I used ISO 100-3200 fine on the BMPC4K and had no issues with noise.

Even if you remove noise in DaVinci, as the manufacturer advises, this is not a solution. Firstly, you have to shoot with so much noise and this makes it difficult to adjust the focus. Secondly, when editing in PROXY files, the focus with such noise is not visible, and these files with such noise are not suitable for quick editing, since the focus is not visible. The Proxy recording quality cannot be changed. What are these Proxy files for then?Thirdly, if you transfer material shot for some kind of PRODUCTION studio to PRORES (if it has been re-encoded first), it is not possible, since this material will be very noisy, and for example, they don’t want BRAW, they only want PRORES.
It turns out that I need to denoise the material in DAVINCI in order to see the focus, since it is not visible in PROXY.
What about those who edit in Adobe Premiere? Using Neat video for noise reduction it will take "1000 years"

Of course, I was ready to put up with a lot, but all the events that I filmed and where the scenes were indoors, these frames are very noisy and at first glance are not suitable for editing. For understanding, I will upload the same frames shot with the same ISO on BMPC4K and BMCC6K FF. This makes me very upset. It turns out that the camera should only be used outdoors, and indoors only with light. The manufacturer urgently needs to solve the problem, at least with noise.

Otherwise, the camera becomes useless and is only suitable for studio photography. When buying it, I expected that it would be no worse than previous models, but in the end it turned out the opposite. I don’t know how to draw the company’s attention so that they solve this problem with new firmware. At the moment I’m ready to part with this camera, but I’m still waiting. Thanks to everyone who read to the end.

Files for comparison.

Examples for ISO 3200 BMCC6K FF:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Examples with ISO 3200 BMPCC4K:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
Last edited by Vitaly on Thu Feb 22, 2024 7:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
BMCC6K FF and BMPCC4K. Lens: Canon 50mm L 1.2, Canon 16-35mm L 4, Canon 24-105mm L 4, Canon 100mm L 2.8, Carl Zeiss 50 mm 1.4, Sigma 10-18mm 2.8.
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scorsesefan

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Re: BMCC6K FF has serious noise problems!

PostThu Feb 22, 2024 3:25 am

Vitaly,

Put simply, this camera is just noisy. I returned two units and picked up a 6K g2 which is fine. If you shoot at 400 or 1250 it's workable if you are outside or have absolutely ideal lighting conditions indoors. 3200 suffers from unusable noise IMO and Cined's https://www.cined.com/blackmagic-cinema ... -latitude/ and drastically reduced DR. As for a firmware fix I wouldn't hold your breath, as BM won't even acknowledge this issue.
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kevin_p

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Re: BMCC6K FF has serious noise problems!

PostThu Feb 22, 2024 6:36 am

Jesus the noise is really bad on the new BMCC6K FF. I am really hope that this is an issue that can be resolved via firmware. It looks like a bad sensor batch or perhaps the dual gain of the ISO is not being initialised. Hopefully this is something that can be fixed in the future.
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ShaheedMalik

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Re: BMCC6K FF has serious noise problems!

PostThu Feb 22, 2024 3:13 pm

To reduce noise in darker images, you need to use lower ISO values that provide greater dynamic range in the shadows of the image, such as 1250, 400, or lower.

- If the image is too dark at this stage, you will need to add light using light sources or open the aperture as wide as possible to allow as much light as possible to reach the sensor.

- If you're using ISO3200 to make a dark image bright it may not give the best results, ISO3200 provides more dynamic range in the highlights than in the shadows, meaning you'll get more detail in a bright sky or when looking at a subject. who is in front of the sun, for example.


Where did you source this from?

If your image is too dark, you need more light. Increasing the ISO to 3200 will only proximity to the noise.
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Vitaly

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Re: BMCC6K FF has serious noise problems!

PostThu Feb 22, 2024 4:29 pm

ShaheedMalik wrote:
To reduce noise in darker images, you need to use lower ISO values that provide greater dynamic range in the shadows of the image, such as 1250, 400, or lower.

- If the image is too dark at this stage, you will need to add light using light sources or open the aperture as wide as possible to allow as much light as possible to reach the sensor.

- If you're using ISO3200 to make a dark image bright it may not give the best results, ISO3200 provides more dynamic range in the highlights than in the shadows, meaning you'll get more detail in a bright sky or when looking at a subject. who is in front of the sun, for example.


Where did you source this from?

If your image is too dark, you need more light. Increasing the ISO to 3200 will only proximity to the noise.


This information is from the BM support service. I indicated in my message all the point-by-point information that the support service wrote to me about noise.
BMCC6K FF and BMPCC4K. Lens: Canon 50mm L 1.2, Canon 16-35mm L 4, Canon 24-105mm L 4, Canon 100mm L 2.8, Carl Zeiss 50 mm 1.4, Sigma 10-18mm 2.8.
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Vitaly

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Re: BMCC6K FF has serious noise problems!

PostThu Feb 22, 2024 4:37 pm

scorsesefan wrote:Vitaly,

Put simply, this camera is just noisy. I returned two units and picked up a 6K g2 which is fine. If you shoot at 400 or 1250 it's workable if you are outside or have absolutely ideal lighting conditions indoors. 3200 suffers from unusable noise IMO and Cined's https://www.cined.com/blackmagic-cinema ... -latitude/ and drastically reduced DR. As for a firmware fix I wouldn't hold your breath, as BM won't even acknowledge this issue.


Thanks for the message. I agree with you.
After all, BM positions this camera not only for shooting short films or documentaries, but also for event videography: weddings, interviews, for shooting internet content. They even show wedding footage on their website. But in fact, the use of the second ISO sensor has been limited and the camera is only suitable for shooting video on the street or in a studio with light. But these characteristics are also not suitable for shooting short films and documentaries. That is, the camera actually cannot shoot in natural room lighting. If they don't fix this bug in the new firmware, they will have to change the system. There are already many complaints about this camera besides noise.
BMCC6K FF and BMPCC4K. Lens: Canon 50mm L 1.2, Canon 16-35mm L 4, Canon 24-105mm L 4, Canon 100mm L 2.8, Carl Zeiss 50 mm 1.4, Sigma 10-18mm 2.8.
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Omar Mohammad

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Re: BMCC6K FF has serious noise problems!

PostFri Feb 23, 2024 10:15 am

Vitaly wrote:- If you're using ISO3200 to make a dark image bright it may not give the best results, ISO3200 provides more dynamic range in the highlights than in the shadows, meaning you'll get more detail in a bright sky or when looking at a subject. who is in front of the sun, for example.


Counterintuitive, isn't? I got bad results when used 3200 shooting interiors, I found 1250 better for shadows with NR postproduction.

Vitaly wrote:- If the image is too dark at this stage, you will need to add light using light sources or open the aperture as wide as possible to allow as much light as possible to reach the sensor.


And then you will need to nail the focus. The wider the aperture, the narrower the area in focus will become.

I like the camera, I hope noise issue gets fixed soon.
MacBook M3 Pro 16”, 18 GPU cores, 36GB RAM, 1TB | Sonoma 14.4
BMCC6K-FF | Sigma 12-24 f4 | Canon 50 f1.8 | Sigma MC-21 Adaptor
DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.6.6

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