Digital Bolex D16 & Blackmagic

So Digital Bolex have started shipping their first cameras to the initial Kickstarter Backers and will be taking pre-orders in the next couple of days. When I first heard of this camera a year or so ago I quite liked the look of it on paper (global shutter, XLRs etc…) despite it needing a lot of data storage. I sort of lost a bit of interest when the BMPCC was announced. Now that it's almost here does anyone see this being a serious competitor to BMD? Interested to here your opinions.

I think it's a super weird form factor. I haven't seen much footage from it though. Can't imagine it being any better than the bmcc.


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I think it's another serious tool filmmakers can use to achieve a richer, organic, cinema-like look, similar to the Ikonoskop, but cheaper. The team designing and building the D16 seem to be doing everything right – they've partnered with Pomfort for raw imaging software and Hot Rod Cameras for a PL mount, and they have an online community of potential buyers they regularly listen to and speak with on their website. I plan to get one.

If anything I think it will help the bottom line of BM and other companies trying to bring better, affordable filmmaking cameras to the market. I really wanted to back the kickstarter but it was a bit out of my price range - especially for someone new to higher res cameras. The BMPCC is a lot more obtainable and seems less risky if you're nervous about upgrading - even though they are two different cams.

I think it's another serious tool filmmakers can use to achieve a richer, organic, cinema-like look, similar to the Ikonoskop, but cheaper.

I would love to see another camera from Ikonoskop - maybe at a lower price point... those cameras look slick

For me it's a Novelty camera, But that's not to say it's not viable for professional use, I don't think they have the software engineering needed yet, like Lossless compressed raw, and many other things.

I could be completely wrong since I have not kept myself up to date with the "Digital Bolex".

WOW Instant update!!!
I just had a glance at the Specs http://www.digitalbolex.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/d16specsheet-2013.pdf looking pretty good, I'm liking the 60fps, Dual CF card slots, Internal 400GB Enterprise SSD, and lets not forget the 12 bit 4:4:4.

The weight is heavy!!!.. Weight 5lbs

I think it's great that they finally released it, though I still very much prefer the BMCC just because of ProRes and more dynamic range.

I think it's a super weird form factor.

You clearly have never lived have you? Most cameras from 40 years ago had that "form factor".

I think it's a super weird form factor.

You clearly have never lived have you? Most cameras from 40 years ago had that "form factor".

Well, I'm only 30 sooo...I do appreciate that they chose that look as a throw back to those old cameras but don't you think they moved away from that design over the years for a reason?

I think it's a super weird form factor.

You clearly have never lived have you? Most cameras from 40 years ago had that "form factor".

Well, I'm only 30 sooo...I do appreciate that they chose that look as a throw back to those old cameras but don't you think they moved away from that design over the years for a reason?

Personally I don't think it's anymore odd than the current BMD cameras or even the NEX video cameras.

I think it's a super weird form factor.

Well, I'm only 30 sooo...

You already gave away your age from your first comment!

from the footage ive seen it seems a little to much like 16mm for my liking. The nice thing about the bmcc is that you can get it pin sharp, looking like red digital footage or you can get a nice super 16/35mm look. its pretty good like that. Anyone know the price of the bolex and the DR cause I couldnt find either on there site?

I would love to see another camera from Ikonoskop - maybe at a lower price point... those cameras look slick

They've gone out of business. I do believe they share the same sensor.

jb

that you can get it pin sharp, looking like red digital footage or you can get a nice super 16/35mm look.

My question may sound stupid: but what's the difference? How to achive one of those? Only DoF?

Looks like it will need the speedbooster

from the footage ive seen it seems a little to much like 16mm for my liking. The nice thing about the bmcc is that you can get it pin sharp, looking like red digital footage or you can get a nice super 16/35mm look. its pretty good like that. Anyone know the price of the bolex and the DR cause I couldnt find either on there site?

I believe the DR is 12 stops, and the price is $3300 for a 256GB version and $3600 for the 512GB version. It has an internal Enterprise Class SSD. You can also put two CF cards in it if you want to dump footage to them instead of connecting the camera directly to a computer.

And it is actually meant to be a Super 16mm camera.

from the footage ive seen it seems a little to much like 16mm for my liking. The nice thing about the bmcc is that you can get it pin sharp, looking like red digital footage or you can get a nice super 16/35mm look. its pretty good like that. Anyone know the price of the bolex and the DR cause I couldnt find either on there site?

I believe the DR is 12 stops, and the price is $3300 for a 256GB version and $3600 for the 512GB version. It has an internal Enterprise Class SSD. You can also put two CF cards in it if you want to dump footage to them instead of connecting the camera directly to a computer.

And it is actually meant to be a Super 16mm camera.

ok cool cheers man. Specs seem pretty sweet for the price. Yer i got that they are going for the super 16 thing I just personally don't like it all the time. the image looks nice but personally i like the fact that you can achieve both a digital and film look from the bmcc. Although obviously i haven't even touched the bolex, just from the footage ive seen it seems as though it might be tough getting a clean digital red type look from it. The bmcc seems more like a nice 35mm to me rather than the 16mm look the bolex puts out. but the specs do seem v cool for that price range i have to say

that you can get it pin sharp, looking like red digital footage or you can get a nice super 16/35mm look.

My question may sound stupid: but what's the difference? How to achive one of those? Only DoF?

If i have a project that demands a more digital feel (say for instance a sci fi futuristic film) i'll try to use new very sharp lens and try to stick to a 200 iso in camera. that tends to give me a nice clean sharp as hell digital look (much like you tend to see from the red one camera) if i'm doing a film that is more lets say "indie" or "innocent" that may demand a more film like texture to complement it. I'll tend to use old lens that are a bit softer and more worn in, i'll also stick to 800 iso to introduce the nice grain the bmcc has. I'm talking specifically about the look of the footage, does it look like it was shot on film stock or was it shot digital. I think what you mean about DOF is making it look "filmic" i.e like a high budget film you might see in Hollywood as opposed to a budget film shot on a camcorder. Its just my opinion but I like how the bmcc can do both looks easily straight from the camera.

I would feel pretty awkward showing up to a professional job with the digital bolex. That's all I'm saying.

They've gone out of business. I do believe they share the same sensor.
jb
John Brawley

They're back in business...with new owners.

I would feel pretty awkward showing up to a professional job with the digital bolex. That's all I'm saying.

joechiazza:

You're hired for your videography expertise, right? So, if you're a good shooter who's getting beautiful footage with the Digital Bolex, your client should be fine with it (unless he's some kind of control freak who's been told that a pro always uses Red).

I would feel pretty awkward showing up to a professional job with the digital bolex. That's all I'm saying.

joechiazza:

You're hired for your videography expertise, right? So, if you're a good shooter who's getting beautiful footage with the Digital Bolex, your client should be fine with it (unless he's some kind of control freak who's been told that a pro always uses Red).

I'm just saying having a professional looking rig adds to the perception of production value to the customer. Customers don't know what a Red camera is vs BMCC. They don't know the tech specs, unless you've been hired to shoot specifically on a chosen camera for a film or something. but with that being said, I guess you can rig up the bolex...Still though.

I guess you can rig up the bolex...Still though.

This conversation is starting to take on the snarky tone of one of those farmer's daughter jokes with a punchline at the end about the "ugliest" one. Yeah, we get it, you think the D16 is weird looking.

It was an aesthetic choice they made to go with a retro industrial design. They probably wanted to make a clear statement that this camera is an homage to small gauge motion picture cameras from decades back.

Retro product design always makes a sacrifice: it alienates those who believe that progress marches inexorably forward, but it appeals to others who know that "progress" isn't all it's cracked up to be, that good things like the look of 16mm film can be lost.

I would feel pretty awkward showing up to a professional job with the digital bolex. That's all I'm saying.

I'm sure you are right in some situations, but if you are doing commercials or even some narrative work, it does make an eye-catching prop for your talent to be using!

Congratulations to the team on the camera. It has a lot of good things going for it with a few things better than the BMCC and a few things worse. As we know cameras are a story of trade offs and using the right camera for the right situation. I think it will do well now it's finally approaching the time when they'll ship to new customers (i.e. After the Kickstarters). Would like to see more footage from it. The last samples I saw were so garishly coloured, I couldn't get a feel for what the camera's image will be in common use.

By the way, I own and have used a hand-cranked film Bolex from the 40s. It can be very pleasing.

Rick Lang
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They've gone out of business. I do believe they share the same sensor.
jb
John Brawley

They're back in business...with new owners.

Well there you go. I missed that.

They'd need to change things significantly to make it an on-going concern. The cost is one thing. But the VF was terrible as well and not adjustable. It ONLY worked for hand held style shooting. It also, from memory, used the same sensor as the about to be shipping D Bolex, which is now significantly similar and will appeal to the same users....

jb

Dito @ Ikonoskop VF ... it was really horrible, I thought I was looking at a magnified GameBoy or something similar .. but the rest of the thing was really nicely machined and well built, felt really nice handheld without any "cages" and stuff..

The Ikonoskop wins in terms of formfactor ower the Digital Bolex and the Blackmagic.
I think Digital Bolex D16 and Ikonoskop A-cam DII could be comparable in terms of immage in RAW.
Digital Bolex can record ProRes, Ikonoskop only with a KiPro or similar atached.

The Downsides of Ikonoskop and Digital Bolex are the smears the ccd will generate when pointed to strong sources of light, but ccds make great images...

by the way, personally I find the viewfinder of the ikonoskop very usable, anyhow, its meant for when you want to keep everything small, most of the time you will use an atached monitor.

daniel

Digital Bolex can record ProRes...

Daniel:

The Digital Bolex D16 only records in raw Adobe CinemaDNG.

How can anyone complain about the D16 form factor is beyond me. It has been perfected to be that way for hand held videographers decades back so why reinvent the wheel? If anything the BMCC has weird form factor and only fit for the task when it is rigged. The least professional in terms of look has to be the BMPC pocket camera. In a recent video shoot with a model she looked at it with disappointment and suspicion that I'm just recording her on a camera phone so I can show her video to my mates I had to email her BMD's website hours after the shoot to convince her that I'm professional about the project.