BMCC6K Facts and Findings

Camera comparison: Blackmagic 6K vs Red Komodo vs Panasonic S5 Mark 2 (Mark Kuczewski, That Camera Nerd, UK)

"In this video, we're putting three top-notch cameras head-to-head to see which one reigns supreme.

First in the ring is the Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K…

Apologies but stopped watching this video on the umpteenth time he refers to the camera as “the Pocket camera.”

40% off price limited offer.

40% off price limited offer.

Yep! Crazy good deal Omar.

40% off price limited offer.

Yep! Crazy good deal Omar.

I should have waited 6 months to get that deal Anyway, I was lucky enough to get EVF for free

40% off price limited offer.

Yep! Crazy good deal Omar.

I should have waited 6 months to get that deal Anyway, I was lucky enough to get EVF for free

How do you like the EVF. Do you find you use it often? I wasn't sure if I would or not?

How do you like the EVF. Do you find you use it often? I wasn't sure if I would or not?

I haven’t tried it, it’s still in the box. I use a gimbal so I don’t need it. Most likely I’ll sell it.

I got the BMCC 6K as part of the sale but I’m probably returning it and going to pass on the Pyxis if it’s the same. Here’s my test footage https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0b2D ... BM_Support
I contacted Blackmagic support on the phone and they told me it’s not going to be comparable to the pocket sensors in terms of noise and low light performance. Not a run and gun, only for carefully lit scenes. After I sent the examples above they wrote this back
“I have looked over the samples and the images.

It would not be fair to the cinema camera to be compared to the pocket cameras (or those models to one another)
as they have different sensors.

From the samples provided, as discussed over the phone, there are no issues with the cinema camera - the noise level is as expected for 3200 and 400 - this is expected from this model.

You will want to light appropriately for this camera.”

This seems to go against the marketing on the Blackmagic site though “Dual Gain ISO for Exceptional Low Light Performance.
In digital film ISO is a measurement of the image sensor’s sensitivity to light. This means the higher the ISO number the more sensitivity to light so it’s possible to shoot using natural light even at night! The Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K features dual native ISO up to 25,600, which means it’s optimized to minimize grain or noise in images, while maintaining the full dynamic range of the sensor. The native ISO of 400 is ideal for scenes with on-set lighting. The secondary high base ISO of 3200 is perfect when shooting in dimly lit environments. The gain is set automatically as you adjust the ISO setting, so it's easy to capture great images when you don’t have time to set up lights.”

Was so excited for this, but the Pockets aren’t exactly low light champs so with this being worse and normal I think it’s going back to B&H. Was really hoping I just had a bad copy and this wasn’t the best it could do. It does pretty good outdoors or in a room with lots of windows or lights! Guess they’re saving me money and I’ll just keep using what I’ve got until whatever comes out after they stop using this sensor. Just wanted to pass it along in case anyone else is having similar results.

I got the BMCC 6K as part of the sale but I’m probably returning it and going to pass on the Pyxis if it’s the same. Here’s my test footage https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0b2D ... BM_Support
I contacted Blackmagic support on the phone and they told me it’s not going to be comparable to the pocket sensors in terms of noise and low light performance. Not a run and gun, only for carefully lit scenes. After I sent the examples above they wrote this back
“I have looked over the samples and the images.

It would not be fair to the cinema camera to be compared to the pocket cameras (or those models to one another)
as they have different sensors.

From the samples provided, as discussed over the phone, there are no issues with the cinema camera - the noise level is as expected for 3200 and 400 - this is expected from this model.

You will want to light appropriately for this camera.”

This seems to go against the marketing on the Blackmagic site though “Dual Gain ISO for Exceptional Low Light Performance.
In digital film ISO is a measurement of the image sensor’s sensitivity to light. This means the higher the ISO number the more sensitivity to light so it’s possible to shoot using natural light even at night! The Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K features dual native ISO up to 25,600, which means it’s optimized to minimize grain or noise in images, while maintaining the full dynamic range of the sensor. The native ISO of 400 is ideal for scenes with on-set lighting. The secondary high base ISO of 3200 is perfect when shooting in dimly lit environments. The gain is set automatically as you adjust the ISO setting, so it's easy to capture great images when you don’t have time to set up lights.”

Was so excited for this, but the Pockets aren’t exactly low light champs so with this being worse and normal I think it’s going back to B&H. Was really hoping I just had a bad copy and this wasn’t the best it could do. It does pretty good outdoors or in a room with lots of windows or lights! Guess they’re saving me money and I’ll just keep using what I’ve got until whatever comes out after they stop using this sensor. Just wanted to pass it along in case anyone else is having similar results.

There is no extreme low-light recording in digital cameras. While optochemical film will just stay unexposed, i.e. blank in case of negative, electronic sensors will show noise. It's inevitable. You can't film at night without any light and expect clean images from a camera that is not trying to conceal the issue by internal noise filtering. This will happen at the cost of detail.

On one end of the range you have BM with very little filtering for BRAW, since they want to leave the decision to you. You can decide on how much filtering you want to do in post, where the NR processing is better anyway.

Then you have the supposedly low-light wonders by Sony, like the A7SIII. It has a large sensor too, so both cameras capture more light than smaller ones, but its resolution is far less and the filtering is more aggressive. Consequently, it shows less noise, but also less detail. Might still be the solution for you if you don't need 6K and want low noise OOC. This is some local detail from a frame at night out of a A7IV, which has more photocells on the same area:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nn7krg4j ... cdo1c&dl=0

Finally, there is the iPhone 15, which seemingly can shoot at night. For stills, it uses a very efficient trick by exposing several times and averaging the photos into one. Impressive. But this doesn't work for video (other than time-lapse). So, it does aggressive noise filtering and looses heaps of detail, which is inevitable on the tiny sensor:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nn7krg4j ... cdo1c&dl=0

Choose your poison, but don't blame BM for leaving the decision to you. Apple and Sony force it at you (at different levels).

I’m not asking for extreme low light, even on par with the cameras that have come before would be fine with me. You won’t hear me complain about the performance of the URSAs or Pockets. I know how to deal with some noise. I’m just disappointed that the performance doesn’t seem to match their examples and marketing. Unless I do just have a bad copy. I haven’t seen a lot of other raw footage to compare with except what they have on the site. Like that NYC subway scene at 3200 ISO. Unless they set up a light or something it looks like available light. From what I was getting I don’t think I’d be able to get that clean of footage at 3200 out of mine.

Camera comparison: Blackmagic 6K vs Red Komodo vs Panasonic S5 Mark 2 (Mark Kuczewski, That Camera Nerd, UK)

"In this video, we're putting three top-notch cameras head-to-head to see which one reigns supreme.

First in the ring is the Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K…

Apologies but stopped watching this video on the umpteenth time he refers to the camera as “the Pocket camera.”

I prefer the "Pocket camera" tag because it looks and work like a Pocket camera it must be a Pocket. BMD made that call first for his type of formfactor so they cant suddenly undoe it because its an image issue. Its the first Pocket camera that cant do Prores.
Unless BMD made this camera do something uniquely different and special with firmware updates its remains a Pocket camera.

I think I solved the issue.

Thanks.

If you have a lack of light you will get a lousy video image, a low-light camera cannot fix that.
You need light to make a scene look good.

In the daytime record in the golden hour to get the best results.
And perhaps ironically you need a lot of strong (spot) lights to make a dark scene look good!

It is as simple as that.

Facebook>BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K/6K/Pro/G2/FF And Pyxis 6K>Anonymous Member 5/26/24

Potential reason why the CC6KFF price is heavily slashed.

Petty's profit tumble

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Article on Grant Petty from the Weekend Australian posted on Facebook.

PettysProfitTumbleA.png (802.88 KiB) Viewed 3697 times

The jump to full frame L mount is big. For years Blackmagic owners with a big MFT and S35 lens locker have been telling themselves they don't need to invest in overpriced full frame lenses. It's a tough sell. How many L mount cine lenses are available?

I'm making the jump though, $1575 is the sweet spot. I can always use the S35 crop with my lenses.

Thanks for posting that Facebook yearend report as I no longer use Facebook. I certainly hope the new cameras and new tech work out for BMD. A 12 month waiting period for hundreds of parts is scary. Full-frame lenses are plentiful, but what a gamble the URSA Cine 65 17K represents!

Perhaps that camera compares to the concept cars various manufacturers develop for a salivating public, but few ever make it to market looking anything like the original concept. Hyundai may be an exception as they will bring a IONIQ N74 all electric concept car to production but have only committed to making 200 units worldwide at a price of at least $350,000 USD.

Could the URSA Cine 65 17K follow that trend line of very production volumes and a low price range of at least 35,000 USD? Will BMD partner with an existing medium format lens manufacturer to ensure full cine medium format lenses will be attainable?

Thanks for the info. I’ve made the jump too and will be receiving a BMCC6K on Tuesday. Must admit I’m concerned about and will test both the “smearing” and nearly unusable onboard mic preamps people have discussed.

My first new BM cam since my purchase of three OG BMPCCs - one of which is still NIB!

Well, at least here in Indonesia the regular Hyundai Ioniq is she car to show off for wealthy people now, not Tesla…

How does the HDMI ouput on this camera work for having a different AR than the recording format? The HDMI output is 16x9, but anything above a 1080p recording isn't 16x9. Is there any way to shoot a high resolution format, but have a crop on the HDMI so that it is full frame? Or is shooting any resolution above 1080p going to have a pillarbox or letterbox on the HDMI output?

The 6KFF camera discount was only 30% in the UK and actual price reduction was something around £520 or $660. That deal was ended in the UK several days ago while the campaign was still running.
BMD's bread and butter is in their broadcast system so I doubt a camera price cut would make much different to profit. What might have happen was dealers placed big orders anticipating demand would be bigger but stocks have not cleared fast enough so the discount help move stocks.

"Comparing the impressive image quality of the affordable new BMCC6K FF against the much more expensive RED V-Raptor 8K VV.

No color corrections were applied, just the factory provided color science. RED V-Raptor was in IPP2 Medium Contrast Very Soft highlight roll-off. BMCC6K was in gen5 color science and no highlight recovery was applied. Both cameras were set to the same exposure settings and white balance. The lenses were set to T2." (Atlanta based Cinematographer Brandon Peterson)

Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K footage.
Lenses used:
Lumix 50mm f1.4 , 85mm f1.8
Sigma 17mm f4 DGDN, 45mm f2.8, 24-70 f2.8

(HAPPY DAYZ PRODUCTIONS, Japan)

Hi All,
Looking at getting my first cinema camera. I like the internal ND’s and internal prores of the 6kpro but like the look and price of the 6k FF. How much of an issue do you find it using external variable ND’s with the FF when using multiple lenses?
Looking to shoot food and drink advertising and underwater stuff.
Thanks for your help.


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Anyone used the cinema camera 6k with the Sigma 16-28? been hearing stories about electronic interference or vignetting on some lenses, so I was wondering if this lens was okay.

Anyone used the cinema camera 6k with the Sigma 16-28? been hearing stories about electronic interference or vignetting on some lenses, so I was wondering if this lens was okay.

I always have attached to Sigma 12-24 f/4, + Sigma MC-21 adapter, no issues whatsoever. Neither in open gate nor in other lower resolutions.

https://www.youtube.com/@falconmarbella

Potential reason why the CC6KFF price is heavily slashed.

Thanks for sharing this interesting information.

Increasing BMCC6K's users base should be beneficial for all. The more users, the more focus it will get from BM, the more firmware updates will come out to improve performance.

My first new BM cam since my purchase of three OG BMPCCs - one of which is still NIB!

Oh man. Should you ever want to sell them, don't. Or at least keep one. I regret selling mine so much.

The timing of the BMCC6Ks sale took the wind out of the sails on the bargain priced $1,499.99 USD Lumix S9 with the same sensor. It was introduced May 22.

This is only a temporary situation, like when the dropped the price of the OG BMPCC from $995 to $495 USD. People are still regretting not buying one as the used prices are still higher 11 years from it's introduction.

I noticed that the BMPCC6K Full Frame on the blackmagicdesign.com site has resumed the $2595 USD price. Some in Europe have noticed the original price is back there too.

Adorama and BH still has them on sale though.

I noticed an uptick of new BMCC6K unboxing videos on youtube the past few days just like when the camera first came out. The bigger retailers in the UK with more in stock did offer a 30% discount while it last but a dealer that I normally use had only one camera in stock and they never offer the discount which fuel my suspicion that dealers with bigger stocks took the opportunity of the discount to move stocks.

That price is enticing but I don’t have any L-mount lenses so that’s going to be some additional cost. I’m sticking with my BMPCC 6K and URSA 4.6K G2 as I have several EF and PL mount glasses. Yes, I know there are adapters for EF and PL but I don’t see any payout going with another camera now. This is a good deal if it’s your first investment in a cinema camera.

That price is enticing but I don’t have any L-mount lenses so that’s going to be some additional cost.

I can't see any advantage to using native L-mount lenses on this camera anyway: the whole point of L mount is that almost any other lens can be adapted to it, as with MFT (or e-mount or z-mount, for that matter). If these cameras had continuous autofocus and IBIS I could see an argument for using native lenses, but they don't.

For photography I use Sony, and of the roughly 25 lenses I use on those cameras only one lens is e-mount and it doesn't have electronic contacts. All the rest of my lenses are adapted; I try not to buy lenses that can't easily be adapted to other mounts because it gives me more flexibility.

The timing of the BMCC6Ks sale took the wind out of the sails on the bargain priced $1,499.99 USD Lumix S9 with the same sensor. It was introduced May 22.

I've heard speculation that BMD timed its sale to compete with the S9, but it seems improbable to me. These are wildly different cameras: few people looking for a dedicated video camera would even consider the S9 due to its 15-minute recording limit.

The S9 is a social media camera: Panasonic's launch event focused almost entirely on how it can be used to shoot photos and video and post them immediately (during an event) to social media with no post-processing required. Its main competition is mobile phones. The S9 is aimed at people who use their phones now to take photos and shoot video during events and while traveling, and post them to social media, but want something with better low-light performance, better image quality, and a wider choice of lenses.

Just received a FF 6K at the discounted price.

If anybody want some test against a 6K Pro that I can do in free time, let me know.


Would love to see anamorphic desqueeze options in all recording format.

Just received a FF 6K at the discounted price.

If anybody want some test against a 6K Pro that I can do in free time, let me know.


Would love to see anamorphic desqueeze options in all recording format.

If you have time to mount aps-c lens and check what crop (resolution) you need to have to cut out vignettes you give me a favor;=D

Ironically I had from 50mm up all ff lenses and three aps-c wide lenses.
I would like to understand at what resolution I should setup this camera to shoot with these wide to avoid vignettes.

I know not all aps-c lenses are the same, but just to see an idea.
I had sigma 18-35 1.8, canon 17-55 2.8, 10-16 4-5.6

I just had an Ursa Mini Pro g1 and pocket6k, I not waste these lenses in rubbish, but just to know if I buy this camera cc6k what I could use. Thanks in advance.


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Carlo, a test is best of course but I can give you an idea of the answer based on the 28.4mm image circle of the Sigma 18-35mm and the size of the sensor photosites.

For the Pyxis and BMCC6K sensor the 4K Super35 sensor crop 4096x3072 may vignette slightly as that sensor area has a diagonal of 30.41mm. The 4K DCI crop has an image circle of 27.51mm so the Sigma lens should be fine.

Carlo, a test is best of course but I can give you an idea of the answer based on the 28.4mm image circle of the Sigma 18-35mm and the size of the sensor photosites.

For the Pyxis and BMCC6K sensor the 4K Super35 sensor crop 4096x3072 may vignette slightly as that sensor area has a diagonal of 30.41mm. The 4K DCI crop has an image circle of 27.51mm so the Sigma lens should be fine.

Thanks Rick, you are very kind

Just received a FF 6K at the discounted price.

If anybody want some test against a 6K Pro that I can do in free time, let me know.


Would love to see anamorphic desqueeze options in all recording format.

If you have time to mount aps-c lens and check what crop (resolution) you need to have to cut out vignettes you give me a favor;=D

Ironically I had from 50mm up all ff lenses and three aps-c wide lenses.
I would like to understand at what resolution I should setup this camera to shoot with these wide to avoid vignettes.

I know not all aps-c lenses are the same, but just to see an idea.
I had sigma 18-35 1.8, canon 17-55 2.8, 10-16 4-5.6

I just had an Ursa Mini Pro g1 and pocket6k, I not waste these lenses in rubbish, but just to know if I buy this camera cc6k what I could use. Thanks in advance.


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I've had the BMCC 6k for a week, and I can confirm that I didn't notice vignetting on the Sigma (Art series) 18-35 in 4:3 s35 or 4k DCI mode while using the Sigma MC-21 adapter. I also tried the 50-100 and the 135mm prime - the same result. My highly unscientific method was to point the camera at the bright, overcast sky. If there was a vignette, I didn't see it.

Shawn

If someone has both the 6K FF and an earlier 6K and/or the umpg2 would they do a bloom/smear test and see how it compares to the others? Especially at the higher native iso? Thanks!

Just putting in my .02 after returning my Cinema 6K that I got from the sale. Coming from a Pocket 4K but have used the 6Ks.

Low light performance is indeed not very good. It’s not just that it gets noisier more easily than previous Pockets (I could live with that) but with CMOS smearing it gets ugly in a way the Pockets never did. I don't understand why people here are defending it-- we're all BMD fans here, we can be honest about the shortcomings.

Even aside from low light, I found it more of step sideways than a step up. Why am I trading in for a camera with the same 13 stops of dynamic range as my 8 year old Pocket 4K? And why am I giving up ProRes? I understand BMD pushing the BRAW workflow but at a certain point it’s user hostile. If Arri and Red can include ProRes, so can BMD.

Ultimately I wouldn’t recommend it unless you really need full frame, which I didn't, or if you never shoot in low light.

On BH Photovideo's website:

Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera 6K (Leica L)
$1,575.00 Save $1,020.00
Offer ends May 31 at 5:15 PM PDT
Limited supply at this price.

Amazon.com shows that Focus Camera LLC has only 1 left in stock at $1575.

I don't understand why people here are defending it...

Maybe it's a flaw for some bodies and not others; maybe it's a "skill issue"; or maybe, if I can be an armchair psychologist for a second, it's because consumers have these deeply unhealthy para-social relationships with brands and consumption. I don't think the users of this forum—corporately owned and operated—are an exception to that. People bend over backwards to defend products because when you buy a good product that makes you a good person, and no one wants to own a "bad" camera because that'd make them a bad artist.

Anyway, I tend to agree about your post generally—couldn't have said it better myself. I know big sensors are all the rage but the BMPCC4K still seems like an incredible value for the money. I really hope the format doesn't completely disappear in the future.

Well, at this point I'm 100% convinced that I'm not going to get the Pyxis 6K, BUT I really hope BMD does release a version with the Pocket 6K Pro sensor and ND filters. An OLPF and better IR filtration would be nice, but not a must.

Last week I shot an event highlight reel on a Pocket 6K Pro and the lighting at the venue ranged from bad to non-existent. In several of the shots I ended up at 6400 ISO, f2.8 and had to push by another stop in post. These shots required HEAVY denoising and may not have been the prettiest, but for a video like this ended up being absolutely usable.

Based on everything I've heard and seen, the Pyxis / BMCC6K would not be able to deal with a situation like this. Which is a shame, because the ergonomics of the Pyxis make it otherwise perfect for how I like to shoot videos like this - rapidly switching between handheld and a shoulder rig.

So... Blackmagic, please mash together the Pyxis and the Pocket 6K Pro and create my perfect camera

We don't even have any normal user experience and footage yet. Jeepers.

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We don't even have any normal user experience and footage yet. Jeepers.

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Well, we kind of do - given that it's the same sensor as in the BMCC6K Full Frame it's unlikely to produce a different image. So it's fair to assume that it will have the exact same issues as that camera.

… given that it's the same sensor as in the BMCC6K Full Frame it's unlikely to produce a different image. So it's fair to assume that it will have the exact same issues as that camera.

The Pyxis body is larger and you can’t fairly assume that the internal image processing is identical. You may be right, but until we have more information about and experience with the Pyxis, best to defer conclusions. We do know BMD is reminding us that this Cinema Camera sensor requires light to get the best results. And for low light, the dual ISO cameras with the name Pocket Cinema Camera may be a better choice.

As for the argument if the BMCC6K looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, then it is a duck: BMD disagrees because they know the two species better than we do.

… given that it's the same sensor as in the BMCC6K Full Frame it's unlikely to produce a different image. So it's fair to assume that it will have the exact same issues as that camera.

The Pyxis body is larger and you can’t fairly assume that the internal image processing is identical. You may be right, but until we have more information about and experience with the Pyxis, best to defer conclusions. We do know BMD is reminding us that this Cinema Camera sensor requires light to get the best results. And for low light, the dual ISO cameras with the name Pocket Cinema Camera may be a better choice.

As for the argument if the BMCC6K looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, then it is a duck: BMD disagrees because they know the two species better than we do.

Oh, don't get me wrong - if the Pyxis delivers low light performance closer to the P6K Pro thanks to better cooling/processing/etc then I will be very glad to be wrong. I just think it's unlikely that the difference will be dramatic. We'll see, though.

The P6K Pro is indeed fantastic for low light - it's just not always great in terms of ergonomics. I can absolutely see both the 6K FF and the Pyxis delivering gorgeous images in controlled or even uncontrolled but not extreme conditions. There's a place for them and I'm far from calling them "bad" cameras.

Thanks for the clarification.

Digital images are *so* dependent on the immediate processing. There are cameras with "the same sensor" that are completely different in use, as in settings and shooting experience, and or rather different results.

The sensor *limits* will be similar, but the hues through the scale, the tonal ramp, may have striking differences.

I've had a hoot over the years when this has shocked people. They were expecting because they liked X, it had Q sensor, Y came out also with Q sensor but half the cost ... therefore it's the same image.

They bought Y without testing and Hoky Ted! It sucks!

Well gee ... whoda thunk?

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Digital images are *so* dependent on the immediate processing. There are cameras with "the same sensor" that are completely different in use, as in settings and shooting experience, and or rather different results.

The sensor *limits* will be similar, but the hues through the scale, the tonal ramp, may have striking differences.

I've had a hoot over the years when this has shocked people. They were expecting because they liked X, it had Q sensor, Y came out also with Q sensor but half the cost ... therefore it's the same image.

They bought Y without testing and Hoky Ted! It sucks!

Well gee ... whoda thunk?

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My post was clearly about the limits, not the general look. So I'm not sure what your point is? Are you expecting the Pyxis to get DRAMATICALLY better performance out of the same sensor as BMCC6K? I'm not. I don't think it's realistic. Could it be slightly better? Sure.

Anyway, I said what I had to say: the ergonomics of the Pyxis line looks great and it would be amazing if BMD also released a camera that's more of a mash-up of that and the P6K Pro as that would be perfect for my (and many other people's, I'd imagine) use case.

the ergonomics of the Pyxis line looks great and it would be amazing if BMD also released a camera that's more of a mash-up of that and the P6K Pro as that would be perfect for my (and many other people's, I'd imagine) use case.

I don't think people are buying on use case or needs, as much as chasing trends like full frame, anamorphic. The P6KPro and P6KG2 are available now with the dual ISO sensor at attractive prices.

The article posted above about Blackmagic's profits reveals some interesting information about the company's workings. Blackmagic buys a big pile of parts then uses them for several products. Their inventory is tied up in sensors and processors not cameras and boxes. We've seen this repeated over the years as the same, or very similar, sensors are used in several different camera bodies.

The Fairchild sensors were iterated in both the UMP and the Micro Cinema enabling higher frame rates over their predecessors. I can see the recent price reductions of the 6KFF as an attempt to sell through stock of a fairly underwhelming sensor to make room for a FF G2 sensor or perhaps a completely different iteration. The Pyxis implementation is likely the 6KFF sensor with the Studio cam's processor as they feature very similar IO.

Assuming the Pyxis, with the same sensor as the 6KFF, would yield a drastically or even discernible difference doesn't jive with reality. It there a difference in IQ between the 3 distinct bodies that use the MFT sensor? The smallest of which is the size of a tennis ball and the largest being the Studio cam. What about the S35 6K sensor? Does the UBG2 image differ in any substantial way over the Pocket 6k Pro? If so I'm not hearing anybody talk about it.

Good Luck