PYXIS 6K

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
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WahWay

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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostTue May 21, 2024 7:53 pm

Chris Cronin wrote:
Alex Mitchell wrote:This camera has been available for less than a year folks. There's no G2 version around the corner; it's not being discontinued; it's just a discount, probably to move units and make warehouse and retail space for the multitude of new products BMD announced at NAB.

We'll see. The Pyxis is the de-facto G2 version, surely.



Its not. Same camera, different formfactor. Pyxis could have easily came first. A G2 or a Pro version would have been based on the same formfactor with added improvements.
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focuspulling

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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostTue May 21, 2024 8:10 pm

Chris Cronin wrote:
Alex Mitchell wrote:This camera has been available for less than a year folks. There's no G2 version around the corner; it's not being discontinued; it's just a discount, probably to move units and make warehouse and retail space for the multitude of new products BMD announced at NAB.

We'll see. The Pyxis is the de-facto G2 version, surely.

-----

As an aside, does anybody have any recommended storage media for the BMCC6K? Mine arrived today a lot sooner than expected, so I'm getting a move on kitting it out. The Angelbird CFexpress Type B cards seem sufficient, but was wondering how they cope with higher frame rates at BRAW Q0?

The Samsung T7 Shield SSD leads its class in categories of reliability, grippy exterior, real-world read/write sustained speeds because of buffering and USB 3.2 Gen. 2 bus for working straight from the drive after shooting, even from an NLE (e.g., faster than an internal SATA SSD). To stay portable and avoid getting caged, I went with a simple top plate (https://amzn.to/4dQKq3R) and SSD dock (https://amzn.to/3ynpu4c). Then, compared to the only available cages from Tilta and 8Sinn, a non-cage bottom plate gives you lens support options: https://www.niceyrig.com/products/nicey ... er-support
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostTue May 21, 2024 8:24 pm

focuspulling wrote:The Samsung T7 Shield SSD leads its class in categories of reliability, grippy exterior, real-world read/write sustained speeds because of buffering and USB 3.2 Gen. 2 bus for working straight from the drive after shooting, even from an NLE (e.g., faster than an internal SATA SSD). To stay portable and avoid getting caged, I went with a simple top plate (https://amzn.to/4dQKq3R) and SSD dock (https://amzn.to/3ynpu4c). Then, compared to the only available cages from Tilta and 8Sinn, a non-cage bottom plate gives you lens support options: https://www.niceyrig.com/products/nicey ... er-support

Thanks, I'll make a note of these. Though generally I'm looking into card media because I want an absolute minimum amount of rigging, and I don't really trust SSD wires without something to screw them in to.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostTue May 21, 2024 8:28 pm

Chris Cronin wrote:
focuspulling wrote:The Samsung T7 Shield SSD leads its class in categories of reliability, grippy exterior, real-world read/write sustained speeds because of buffering and USB 3.2 Gen. 2 bus for working straight from the drive after shooting, even from an NLE (e.g., faster than an internal SATA SSD). To stay portable and avoid getting caged, I went with a simple top plate (https://amzn.to/4dQKq3R) and SSD dock (https://amzn.to/3ynpu4c). Then, compared to the only available cages from Tilta and 8Sinn, a non-cage bottom plate gives you lens support options: https://www.niceyrig.com/products/nicey ... er-support

Thanks, I'll make a note of these. Though generally I'm looking into card media because I want an absolute minimum amount of rigging, and I don't really trust SSD wires without something to screw them in to.

Good point. The Tilta cage offers that security, as they sell a matching proprietary cable that screws down on the port end (much like the PYXIS natively features). But it lacks lens support and makes other port access fiddly with those jammed-up flap-covers. I do still prefer the mobility of taking the acquisition SSD straight into the edit bay, but I envy the encased reliability of using Type B cards -- and at least they aren't the price-gouging yet indistinct Sony Type A, pouting to be different like the legacy of blue chewing gum Memory Sticks.
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Lexicon

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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostWed May 22, 2024 9:28 pm

Uli Plank wrote:
Florent Piovesan wrote:[I think it is a constellation too.

You may be thinking of Pisces.


"Pyxis is a small and faint constellation in the southern sky. Abbreviated from 'Pyxis Nautica', its name is Latin for a mariner's compass (contrasting with Circinus, which represents a draftsman's compasses). Pyxis was introduced by Nicolas-Louis de Lacaille in the 18th century, and is counted among the 88 modern constellations." (Wikipedia)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyxis

"Pisces is a constellation of the zodiac. Its vast bulk – and main asterism viewed in most European cultures per Greco-Roman antiquity as a distant pair of fishes connected by one cord each that join at an apex – are in the Northern celestial hemisphere. Its old astronomical symbol is (♓︎). Its name is Latin for "fishes"." (Wikipedia)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisces_(constellation)
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Pyxis[a] is a small and faint constellation in the southern sky. Abbreviated from 'Pyxis Nautica', its name is Latin for a mariner's compass (contrasting with Circinus,a draftsman's compasses).png
Pyxis[a] is a small and faint constellation in the southern sky. Abbreviated from 'Pyxis Nautica', its name is Latin for a mariner's compass (contrasting with Circinus,a draftsman's compasses).png (186.51 KiB) Viewed 4460 times
Pisces is a constellation of the zodiac in the Northern celestial hemisphere. Viewed since Greco-Roman antiquity as a distant pair of fishes connected by one cord each that join at an apex.png
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Uli Plank

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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 23, 2024 1:35 am

Yeah, thanks for the detailed correction.
With BM being an Australian company, I should have researched more carefully regarding Southern skies :-)
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 23, 2024 3:06 am

Chris Cronin wrote:
focuspulling wrote:The Samsung T7 Shield SSD leads its class in categories of reliability, grippy exterior, real-world read/write sustained speeds because of buffering and USB 3.2 Gen. 2 bus for working straight from the drive after shooting, even from an NLE (e.g., faster than an internal SATA SSD). To stay portable and avoid getting caged, I went with a simple top plate (https://amzn.to/4dQKq3R) and SSD dock (https://amzn.to/3ynpu4c). Then, compared to the only available cages from Tilta and 8Sinn, a non-cage bottom plate gives you lens support options: https://www.niceyrig.com/products/nicey ... er-support

Thanks, I'll make a note of these. Though generally I'm looking into card media because I want an absolute minimum amount of rigging, and I don't really trust SSD wires without something to screw them in to.

Quick update/correction: the plates don't fit properly, I miscalculated, and they arrived today, not a match (but the SSD sled, easily does).
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 23, 2024 3:57 am

As I await arrival of my BMCC Full Frame, quick question to anyone who may know:

If my ambition was to frame for 4k DCI but record the entire 6K open gate for post flexibility, does the camera allow me any sort of viewing options to only see the 4K DCI frame while still recording the full open gate image?
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 23, 2024 4:44 am

I don’t think so, but I use the Safe Area set to a size that approximates my deliverables while letting me see the entire active sensor area.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 23, 2024 5:17 am

CodySolo wrote:As I await arrival of my BMCC Full Frame, quick question to anyone who may know:

If my ambition was to frame for 4k DCI but record the entire 6K open gate for post flexibility, does the camera allow me any sort of viewing options to only see the 4K DCI frame while still recording the full open gate image?

Just used it today for a 6-camera shoot, as the master shot using a 15mm full-frame f/2.8 lens with lots of foreground stage action that benefitted from the extra headroom for panning up/down in post. When shooting 4:3 open gate, when turning on the frame guides, at another menu page you can set the opacity to make the regions outside 16:9 or DCI look practically black (a slider that goes in 25% increments). I used this to compose that master shot for the default stage position.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 23, 2024 7:24 pm

So, yes, Cody could shoot and record 6K open gate while setting the frame guide to 4K with opacity set to 50%. That would provide a bright image in the desired deliverable format while seeing the entire sensor area. That’s basically how I shoot too albeit on my smaller sensors.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 12:23 am

I got the BMCC 6K as part of the sale but I’m probably returning it and going to pass on the Pyxis if it’s the same. Here’s my test footage https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0b2DNOjoR63o64Li4zz9osTCQ#frames_for_BM_Support
I contacted Blackmagic support on the phone and they told me it’s not going to be comparable to the pocket sensors in terms of noise and low light performance. Not a run and gun, only for carefully lit scenes. After I sent the examples above they wrote this back
“I have looked over the samples and the images.

It would not be fair to the cinema camera to be compared to the pocket cameras (or those models to one another)
as they have different sensors.

From the samples provided, as discussed over the phone, there are no issues with the cinema camera - the noise level is as expected for 3200 and 400 - this is expected from this model.

You will want to light appropriately for this camera.”

This seems to go against the marketing on the Blackmagic site though “Dual Gain ISO for Exceptional Low Light Performance.
In digital film ISO is a measurement of the image sensor’s sensitivity to light. This means the higher the ISO number the more sensitivity to light so it’s possible to shoot using natural light even at night! The Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K features dual native ISO up to 25,600, which means it’s optimized to minimize grain or noise in images, while maintaining the full dynamic range of the sensor. The native ISO of 400 is ideal for scenes with on-set lighting. The secondary high base ISO of 3200 is perfect when shooting in dimly lit environments. The gain is set automatically as you adjust the ISO setting, so it's easy to capture great images when you don’t have time to set up lights.”

Was so excited for this, but the Pockets aren’t exactly low light champs so with this being worse and normal I think it’s going back to B&H. Was really hoping I just had a bad copy and this wasn’t the best it could do. It does pretty good outdoors or in a room with lots of windows or lights! Guess they’re saving me money and I’ll just keep using what I’ve got until whatever comes out after they stop using this sensor. Just wanted to pass it along in case anyone else is having similar results.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 12:32 am

brettsmith wrote:I got the BMCC 6K as part of the sale but I’m probably returning it and going to pass on the Pyxis if it’s the same. Here’s my test footage https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0b2DNOjoR63o64Li4zz9osTCQ#frames_for_BM_Support
I contacted Blackmagic support on the phone and they told me it’s not going to be comparable to the pocket sensors in terms of noise and low light performance. Not a run and gun, only for carefully lit scenes. After I sent the examples above they wrote this back
“I have looked over the samples and the images.

It would not be fair to the cinema camera to be compared to the pocket cameras (or those models to one another)
as they have different sensors.

From the samples provided, as discussed over the phone, there are no issues with the cinema camera - the noise level is as expected for 3200 and 400 - this is expected from this model.

You will want to light appropriately for this camera.”

This seems to go against the marketing on the Blackmagic site though “Dual Gain ISO for Exceptional Low Light Performance.
In digital film ISO is a measurement of the image sensor’s sensitivity to light. This means the higher the ISO number the more sensitivity to light so it’s possible to shoot using natural light even at night! The Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K features dual native ISO up to 25,600, which means it’s optimized to minimize grain or noise in images, while maintaining the full dynamic range of the sensor. The native ISO of 400 is ideal for scenes with on-set lighting. The secondary high base ISO of 3200 is perfect when shooting in dimly lit environments. The gain is set automatically as you adjust the ISO setting, so it's easy to capture great images when you don’t have time to set up lights.”

Was so excited for this, but the Pockets aren’t exactly low light champs so with this being worse and normal I think it’s going back to B&H. Was really hoping I just had a bad copy and this wasn’t the best it could do. It does pretty good outdoors or in a room with lots of windows or lights! Guess they’re saving me money and I’ll just keep using what I’ve got until whatever comes out after they stop using this sensor. Just wanted to pass it along in case anyone else is having similar results.

Even just light research (e.g., reading reviews such as the CineD lab tests) would have saved the waste of buying and returning. It's universally known and understood that the numerical ISO value of one sensor is totally irrelevant to that of another sensor (i.e., apples to oranges). The benefits of the full frame sensor range from control over depth of field (and the related value of lens focal lengths meaning what they say), to open gate's options for reframing along with ideal anamorphic capture -- even if the light-gathering capabilities are largely similar.

Blackmagic's response was consistent and sensible, because the dual base ISO feature is a positive evolution across the industry that optimizes the grain profile after a threshold exposure for relative consistency -- so long as users pay close attention to the changeover ISO value at 1000 into 1250. It improves light sensitivity on the Pocket cameras, and the 6K full-frame cameras, on the same basis.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 2:45 am

I’m not saying the ISO values should line up. I’m just saying I feel like I wasn’t getting what was advertised. I read and watched a lot of reviews and it seemed like they said low light wasn’t quite on par with the Pocket 6K Pro and I figured I could just use the noise reduction to fix it if I was ever up that high. I just wouldn’t say it’s exceptional or from their response that it lets you get “great images” when you don’t have time to set up lights. I’m not a stranger to Blackmagic cameras low light capabilities or lack thereof. I only use Blackmagic cameras. I’m just saying my real world experience was worse than what the marketing was and what most of the reviews led me to believe. There were a few reviews that gave feedback like what I had but I thought since they were in the minority maybe they just got dealt a lemon. The only other time I saw noise like this was with my original URSA mini 4.6K but they said it was abnormal noise and the replacement they sent worked great and I still use it today! I just thought with the price drop a lot of other people might be excited like I was and be let down. I just didn’t want them holding out hope thinking they had a bad copy if it’s considered normal.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 2:58 am

brettsmith wrote:I’m not saying the ISO values should line up. I’m just saying I feel like I wasn’t getting what was advertised. I read and watched a lot of reviews and it seemed like they said low light wasn’t quite on par with the Pocket 6K Pro and I figured I could just use the noise reduction to fix it if I was ever up that high. I just wouldn’t say it’s exceptional or from their response that it lets you get “great images” when you don’t have time to set up lights. I’m not a stranger to Blackmagic cameras low light capabilities or lack thereof. I only use Blackmagic cameras. I’m just saying my real world experience was worse than what the marketing was and what most of the reviews led me to believe. There were a few reviews that gave feedback like what I had but I thought since they were in the minority maybe they just got dealt a lemon. The only other time I saw noise like this was with my original URSA mini 4.6K but they said it was abnormal noise and the replacement they sent worked great and I still use it today! I just thought with the price drop a lot of other people might be excited like I was and be let down. I just didn’t want them holding out hope thinking they had a bad copy if it’s considered normal.

Another factor long-familiar to RAW shooters is that the higher quality and post-adjustment flexibility, comes with the absence of in-camera/on-the-fly sensor processing (e.g., Sony's "EXMOR" and Canon's "DIGIC") that estimates/compromises the image quality in real time for cleaning up implicit sensor noise. Much like audiophiles who prefer the highest quality delivery system with no intervention, Blackmagic leaves the sensor data (nearly) RAW for us to clean up if necessary -- but hopefully, if properly planned, to light things up correctly so that de-bayering compromises aren't affecting footage that never needed compromising cleanup using inferior real-time calculations.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 3:07 am

There is no extreme low-light recording in digital cameras. While optochemical film will just stay unexposed, i.e. blank in case of negative, electronic sensors will show noise. It's inevitable. You can't film at night without any light and expect clean images from a camera that is not trying to conceal the issue by internal noise filtering. This will happen at the cost of detail.

On one end of the range you have BM with very little filtering for BRAW, since they want to leave the decision to you. You can decide on how much filtering you want to do in post, where the NR processing is better anyway.

Two extreme examples are the Sony A7S cameras and the iPhones.

On one side you have the supposedly low-light wonders by Sony, like the A7SIII. It has a large sensor too, so both cameras capture more light than smaller ones, but its resolution is far less and the filtering is more aggressive. Consequently, it shows less noise, but also less detail. Might still be the solution for you if you don't need 6K and want low noise OOC. This is some local detail from a frame at night out of a A7IV, which has more photocells on the same area:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nn7krg4j ... cdo1c&dl=0

Finally, there is the iPhone 15, which seemingly can shoot at night. For stills, it uses a very efficient trick by exposing several times and averaging the photos into one. Impressive. But this doesn't work for video (other than time-lapse). So, it does aggressive noise filtering and looses heaps of detail, which is inevitable on the tiny sensor:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nn7krg4j ... cdo1c&dl=0

Choose your poison, but don't blame BM for leaving the decision to you. Apple and Sony force it at you (at different levels).
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 3:23 am

Uli Plank wrote:There is no extreme low-light recording in digital cameras. While optochemical film will just stay unexposed, i.e. blank in case of negative, electronic sensors will show noise. It's inevitable. You can't film at night without any light and expect clean images from a camera that is not trying to conceal the issue by internal noise filtering. This will happen at the cost of detail.

On one end of the range you have BM with very little filtering for BRAW, since they want to leave the decision to you. You can decide on how much filtering you want to do in post, where the NR processing is better anyway.

Two extreme examples are the Sony A7S cameras and the iPhones.

On one side you have the supposedly low-light wonders by Sony, like the A7SIII. It has a large sensor too, so both cameras capture more light than smaller ones, but its resolution is far less and the filtering is more aggressive. Consequently, it shows less noise, but also less detail. Might still be the solution for you if you don't need 6K and want low noise OOC. This is some local detail from a frame at night out of a A7IV, which has more photocells on the same area:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nn7krg4j ... cdo1c&dl=0

Finally, there is the iPhone 15, which seemingly can shoot at night. For stills, it uses a very efficient trick by exposing several times and averaging the photos into one. Impressive. But this doesn't work for video (other than time-lapse). So, it does aggressive noise filtering and looses heaps of detail, which is inevitable on the tiny sensor:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nn7krg4j ... cdo1c&dl=0

Choose your poison, but don't blame BM for leaving the decision to you. Apple and Sony force it at you (at different levels).

As I wrote in the post above yours...
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 3:35 am

Yeah, all good, I just wanted to show examples.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 5:07 am

Hi Uli
Tried your links but they both seem to be broken. They don't quite look right in the text so not surprised. Hope you fix them.

I see what you're saying - some cameras clean up the noise but the noise is always there. What's NOT clear to me is if the 6K FF inherently has more noise than the previous BMPC cameras or than, say, an A7SIII before Sony's in-camera denoising. Not sure how that's determined but I'd think the testing labs have some way to suss it out. Or alternatively one might take the noisy low-light 6K FF image and show how to denoise it so it's both as clean as, say, the A7SIII but with more detail or in general as good an apparent PQ. Or same for an Alexa or RED. I think people need more than "BM just does it differently but they're probably about the same."

Cheers!
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 5:55 am

Joe Shapiro wrote:Hi Uli
Tried your links but they both seem to be broken. They don't quite look right in the text so not surprised. Hope you fix them.

I see what you're saying - some cameras clean up the noise but the noise is always there. What's NOT clear to me is if the 6K FF inherently has more noise than the previous BMPC cameras or than, say, an A7SIII before Sony's in-camera denoising. Not sure how that's determined but I'd think the testing labs have some way to suss it out. Or alternatively one might take the noisy low-light 6K FF image and show how to denoise it so it's both as clean as, say, the A7SIII but with more detail or in general as good an apparent PQ. Or same for an Alexa or RED. I think people need more than "BM just does it differently but they're probably about the same."

Cheers!
Joe
https://www.cined.com/blackmagic-cinema-camera-6k-lab-test-rolling-shutter-dynamic-range-and-latitude/
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 6:17 am

Sorry, my DropBox seems to be broken. I'll switch to some other cloud service for the future.
Now that the cat #19 is out of the bag, test it as much as you can and use the subforum.

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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 7:36 am

brettsmith wrote:I got the BMCC 6K as part of the sale but I’m probably returning it and going to pass on the Pyxis if it’s the same. Here’s my test footage https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0b2DNOjoR63o64Li4zz9osTCQ#frames_for_BM_Support


Hi Brett. I downloaded your footage and to me it sure looks like the blinds are smearing into the shadows. That can't be right, can it? I hope the more expert camera folks here download your footage and take a look at that. It's very evident at 3200 but is visible at 400 as well.

Thanks for sharing your tests.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 7:38 am

BMCC 6K has a noise issue, let's not pretend it's not there. Will be interesting to see if the Pyxis performs the same.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 8:15 am

focusandshadow wrote:I'm very excited for the PYXIS! Just a heads up for those who are looking at the Sigma 24-70 for your new camera. It looks like they are going to release a version 2 on May 16th. I'm hoping for lighter, internal zoom, and mechanical focus. Looks like it for sure has an aperture ring. PS: I'd still like to know the distance between the two front/top quarter twenties if anyone at Blackmagic wants to let us know that info.



Looking forward to this new Sigma lens.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 8:40 am

brettsmith wrote:I’m not saying the ISO values should line up.


Why shouldn’t they? ISO is the International Organization of Standards. Film (or digital) speed is literally called ISO for this reason. 18% grey is properly exposed at ISO 100 with 1/100th shutter at F1.0 and 25 footcandles. This is the same for photochemical and digital devices. If not there’s a compliance issue and it should be reported…to the ISO.

Good Luck
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 9:13 am

Michel Rabe wrote:BMCC 6K has a noise issue, let's not pretend it's not there. Will be interesting to see if the Pyxis performs the same.


JB mentioned he was not given a Pyxis to test so we can assume the IQ and other core feature performance are going to be exactly the same as the BMCC6K. What we can hope for is camera firmware updates to address this problem.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 12:33 pm

I often think the ad copy writers run wild on the BM camera product web pages. They need to have an editor that keeps them honest. Just throwing in the occasional addition of two words here and there will help describe the correct workflow to great images “in post.” Five words even better “apply noise reduction in post.”
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 12:54 pm

Joe Shapiro wrote:
brettsmith wrote:I got the BMCC 6K as part of the sale but I’m probably returning it and going to pass on the Pyxis if it’s the same. Here’s my test footage https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0b2DNOjoR63o64Li4zz9osTCQ#frames_for_BM_Support


Hi Brett. I downloaded your footage and to me it sure looks like the blinds are smearing into the shadows. That can't be right, can it? I hope the more expert camera folks here download your footage and take a look at that. It's very evident at 3200 but is visible at 400 as well.

Thanks for sharing your tests.


Thanks for taking a look Joe and not just dismissing it! I thought the same thing. It can’t be right, right? But the quote I have in the original post was from the support rep. Said it wasn’t smearing but blooming and banding and was normal for both ISOs. That’s why I was so shocked. After downloading their gallery braw files for the camera, the 3200 ISO examples(there were only 2), I thought they looked much cleaner. I even tested it against an older RED Dragon 5K, URSA Mini 4.6K, URSA Mini Pro 4.6, pocket 6K Pro, pocket 6K, and Pocket 4K in the same light and they all looked better. If my experience is really the best that full frame sensor can do then I’m glad I found out now and not after spending twice as much on the Pyxis. Maybe that’s why they’re all on sale? I was really hoping they’d say “oh ya, sorry! Our bad that’s not how it should look. Here’s the right one.” Instead of “oh ya… sorry. You’ll always need to pull out a lighting kit when you use it.”
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 3:31 pm

rick.lang wrote: “apply noise reduction in post.”

When to apply noise reduction is an interesting question.

True noise can't be compressed and often gets mistaken for part of the actual image, which reduces image quality and introduces compression artifacts that are hard to remove later in the pipeline.

The most effective noise reduction happens at the Bayer level, where the image data is still raw and uncompressed. At this stage, noise can be more accurately identified and removed. By doing this before the demosaicing process, the final image is cleaner and of higher quality.

A good camera should have a setting that allows you to adjust the aggressiveness of the noise reduction.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 24, 2024 5:28 pm

rick.lang wrote:I often think the ad copy writers run wild on the BM camera product web pages. They need to have an editor that keeps them honest. Just throwing in the occasional addition of two words here and there will help describe the correct workflow to great images "in post." Five words even better "apply noise reduction in post."


Yeah, I don't pretend to know BMD's organizational structure. But in my experience, marketing departments (usually) have broad leeway to represent products in the most marketable way - even when technically inaccurate. Your proposed changes seem reasonable, but they might not align with BMD's corporate voice, style, or strategy. I'm not saying I know this for a fact... but I suspect there aren't any oversights or innocent mistakes in BMD's marketing copy. Then again, it might be copy generated by an overworked junior copywriter using AI and approved by an overworked manager. You never know. :-)

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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostMon May 27, 2024 5:16 am

brettsmith wrote:Thanks for taking a look Joe and not just dismissing it! I thought the same thing. It can’t be right, right? But the quote I have in the original post was from the support rep. Said it wasn’t smearing but blooming and banding and was normal for both ISOs.


Hi Brett
I found this post about blooming/smearing on the 6K Pro. Seems like that's what's happening to you with the 6K FF. I wonder how the blooming/smearing compares between the 6K Pro and the 6K FF?

Anyway, here's the post. It contains a YouTube video that goes into some depth on why this happens, how it affects all CMOS cameras, and that some cameras deal with it much better than others.
viewtopic.php?t=166276&p=877267
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostWed May 29, 2024 8:37 pm

Duclos Lenses has a preorder for the new DZOfilm Arles Cine Primes T1.4 aperture and 16 blade iris. Several early reviews are available. The advantage of ordering from Duclos is usually an additional year warranty. These cover full-frame and VistaVision with 46mm image circle:

https://www.ducloslenses.com/products/a ... 5-lens-kit
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostWed May 29, 2024 8:46 pm

rick.lang wrote:Duclos Lenses has a preorder for the new DZOfilm Arles Cine Primes T1.4 aperture and 16 blade iris. Several early reviews are available. The advantage of ordering from Duclos is usually an additional year warranty. These cover full-frame and VistaVision with 46mm image circle:

https://www.ducloslenses.com/products/a ... 5-lens-kit


These look REALLY REALLY nice. Like near Zeiss Superspeed look. I hope they release more focal lengths! Though larger and heavier, they give an incredible pop.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostWed May 29, 2024 8:58 pm

At $9,699 for the 5 lens (standard PL mount) set including hard case, it is a very attractive package especially for new Pyxis and BMCC6K shooters. Optional EF mount is available.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostWed May 29, 2024 9:07 pm

Yeah, I'm very excited by the DZOFilm Arles Primes. I may hold out for /i Technology versions in the PL option. I've been in communication with DZOFilm about this for years, and the last communication I had said:
DZOFilm Rep wrote:We hope we could fasten the communication with Cooke so that we can catch up the trend of the metadata.

But these lenses impress me nonetheless and they are a great upgrade from the Vespid Primes. And, I have loved my Vespid set for the last 3.5-years.

The official word is there will be 10 lenses total in the Arles set. So, I suspect a 16, 21, 40, and 125 are on the way. Similar to those options available for the Vespids. Although, it is possible the 125 is replaced by a 135. As for the 5th lens option I'm not 100% what it could end up being. Maybe we'll see a 200mm option. Or they end up going 12mm like they did with Vespid. I could check with my DZOFilm contact.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 30, 2024 1:03 am

timbutt2 wrote:Yeah, I'm very excited by the DZOFilm Arles Primes. I may hold out for /i Technology versions in the PL option. I've been in communication with DZOFilm about this for years, and the last communication I had said:
DZOFilm Rep wrote:We hope we could fasten the communication with Cooke so that we can catch up the trend of the metadata.

But these lenses impress me nonetheless and they are a great upgrade from the Vespid Primes. And, I have loved my Vespid set for the last 3.5-years.

The official word is there will be 10 lenses total in the Arles set. So, I suspect a 16, 21, 40, and 125 are on the way. Similar to those options available for the Vespids. Although, it is possible the 125 is replaced by a 135. As for the 5th lens option I'm not 100% what it could end up being. Maybe we'll see a 200mm option. Or they end up going 12mm like they did with Vespid. I could check with my DZOFilm contact.




Hi Tim, for some reason when I watched the Arles videos on YouTube, most of them to my eyes seem to have a greenish cast I'm not particularly a fan of. Maybe that's the character of the lens. I'm just not as impressed as I was with the Vespids. I won't be upgrading. I would love to see what you guys do with them when in hand. Maybe i'l change my mind after you guys post some shots of your Arles in the field. Until then... Vespids still rule for me.
Vespid prime 40mm on pocket 6k pro.png
Vespid 40mm
Vespid prime 40mm on pocket 6k pro.png (977.59 KiB) Viewed 1605 times
Last edited by Donnell Henry on Thu May 30, 2024 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 30, 2024 1:06 am

Donnell Henry wrote:Hi Tim, for some reason when I watched the Arles videos on YouTube, most of them to my eyes seem to have a greenish cast I'm not particularly a fan of. Maybe that's the character of the lens. I'm just not as impressed as I was with the Vespids.
Vespid prime 40mm on pocket 6k pro.png

So far I've only really seen one video. It looked fine for me. But I'll make a decision after I see more footage. It was also a video shot on the RED Raptor, so that green cast could also be from the camera.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 30, 2024 1:09 am

timbutt2 wrote:
Donnell Henry wrote:Hi Tim, for some reason when I watched the Arles videos on YouTube, most of them to my eyes seem to have a greenish cast I'm not particularly a fan of. Maybe that's the character of the lens. I'm just not as impressed as I was with the Vespids.
Vespid prime 40mm on pocket 6k pro.png

So far I've only really seen one video. It looked fine for me. But I'll make a decision after I see more footage. It was also a video shot on the RED Raptor, so that green cast could also be from the camera.

yea I saw that.. here's another one I found. look at the skin at the 1:20, 1:34 and 1:40 mark..maybe its the grade on some of the shots, or the color temp. I'm seeing on both this and the raptor footage on warmer color temps or grade. this video description was shot on a Panasonic S5
Last edited by Donnell Henry on Thu May 30, 2024 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 30, 2024 1:18 am

That video appears to be lacking in proper colour balance to compensate for a lot of sunlit greenery in some of the daytime shots and likely inferior lighting of the ugly looking nighttime shots at the end of the video. My guess is the video is poorly shot and/or poorly graded.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 30, 2024 1:23 am

rick.lang wrote:That video appears to be lacking in proper colour balance to compensate for a lot of sunlit greenery in some of the daytime shots and likely inferior lighting of the ugly looking nighttime shots at the end of the video. My guess is the video is poorly shot and/or poorly graded.


Hey Rick long time my brother... :D I'm trying to save Tim some money on buying those Arles..kidding :D I guess the color temps on both videos may have not been adjusted properly. Like Tim said we'll have to wait to see more videos out there. At this moment in time I'm not particularly impressed with these.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 30, 2024 2:09 am

Dunk and Thai 8k are the same guy and none of the stuff they’ve posted is very impressive.

Good Luck
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 30, 2024 2:39 am

I do like the 16 blades in the iris and T1.4 can be very helpful at times so I expect there will be more controlled tests that reveal the lens character rather than the ‘real world’ beauty video treatment in some challenging scenes that requires having a polished grade and at least correct colour temperature and tint.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 30, 2024 1:57 pm

Donnell Henry wrote:
rick.lang wrote:That video appears to be lacking in proper colour balance to compensate for a lot of sunlit greenery in some of the daytime shots and likely inferior lighting of the ugly looking nighttime shots at the end of the video. My guess is the video is poorly shot and/or poorly graded.


Hey Rick long time my brother... :D I'm trying to save Tim some money... Like Tim said we'll have to wait to see more videos out there. At this moment in time I'm not particularly impressed with these.


Always thinking of others first, admirable kindness!

I see other videos are being posted of the new sensor which BMD has advised is not a low light wunderkind. I should take a look at several other mini-reviews regarding the Laowa Arles primes.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 30, 2024 3:03 pm

It's absolutely impossible to judge color rendition of a lens off YouTube videos like these.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 30, 2024 4:46 pm

First time seeing the video from Thai 8K HDR Variety. Um, yeah their color grade isn't that great. I'm not going to judge color of the lenses from those videos. However, I can still judge bokeh, focus breathing, and other attributes.

When it comes to the Bokeh I really love how the Arles renders it. I'm guessing they shot wide open, and that bokeh looks wonderful wide open. But also, the lens looked plenty sharp wide open. I usually like to close down a little. But if I can shoot T2 or T2.8 then I like for it to be sharp enough and have really nice bokeh.

I try to avoid T1.4 oftentimes. Especially with a moving subject. That's where it starts to look like a VDSLR or 35mm Film Adapter on a Video Camcorder with the overly shallow depth of field and the subject who can't be kept in focus while moving because there's the misconception that shallow depth of field means cinematic. If I want to shoot T1.4 it is for a subject that is sitting still and when I want to to be a focused conversation.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostThu May 30, 2024 5:47 pm

Completely agree.
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Re: PYXIS 6K

PostFri May 31, 2024 1:28 am

Image
Still shooting the film. But this was f2 at 1/60 sec shutter speed. Fuji Acros 100 was my film stock and this is the Sony with the same lens so I could show the model how the film can look before we get it developed. But I only shot f2 because of the lack of light with that slower speed film.

Even though this lens opens up to f/1.4 I try to avoid shooting that f stop. Not only because it is softer wide open, but also because is that much more difficult to nail on the film. Sadly with digital and autofocus I would easily go to f/1.4 on a modern lens because it would be sharp and I’d nail focus on the eye. But should I?

The fundamental issue is that the images we grew up on were never fully wide open and shallow. Professionals shot at 4 and 5.6 no worry. I even shot a shot on the film at f/11 for deep focus.

So, in conclusion, T1.4 is only there for an option and not as the default aperture value.


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