BMCC6K Angelbird AV PRO SE vs AV PRO MK2

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Odnamra

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BMCC6K Angelbird AV PRO SE vs AV PRO MK2

PostSat Nov 25, 2023 6:44 pm

Greetings, I am trying to understand if there is any technical reason for someone to choose the AV PRO MK2 over the AV PRO SE for the new full frame 6K cinema camera.

The AV PRO SE is much cheaper:
-- $200 for 1TB
-- Maximum: 1550 MB/s
-- Sustained: 1300 MB/s

Compared to the AV PRO MK2:
-- $550 for only 660GB
-- Maximum: 1600 MB/s
-- Minimum: 1480 MB/s

Based on the technical specifications, it seems like the max write speed needed, even at Q0, is 555 MB/s
6048 x 4032 (6K Open Gate 3:2)
Blackmagic RAW 3:1 - 370 MB/s
Blackmagic RAW 5:1 - 223 MB/s
Blackmagic RAW 8:1 - 140 MB/s
Blackmagic RAW 12:1 - 94 MB/s
Blackmagic RAW Q0 - 278 to 555 MB/s

Why would anyone opt for the MK2. Is there something I don't understand? Thank you in advance for any clarifications!
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rick.lang

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Re: BMCC6K Angelbird AV PRO SE vs AV PRO MK2

PostWed Nov 29, 2023 3:19 pm

BMD undergoes a rigorous testing protocol for all cards/drives to which they have access. BMD publishes their most recent results for those cards/drives that pass their testing. They rarely comment on cards/drives that fail their testing. One exception is the sticky note that explains why some Angelbird cards were removed from a list of previously approved cards since they’re a very popular vendor of very reliable cards.

In the past other popular vendors have had approvals withdrawn. This is often caused by the vendor making ‘improvements’ to the data controller that has an unfortunate result that affects the card’s performance when used in a BMD camera. Usually the vendor then corrects the data controller so that it performs well for our purposes.

There are often cards that work for individual shooters but they do not appear on the BMD list. This can simply be that BMD could not source the cards yet, but it could also be that the cards fail the rigorous BMD tests, but the card performs adequately for some of the shooters’ using them in BMD cameras. A simple example might be the card works well at 60 fps which the shooter uses, but fails at 120 fps which the shooter never shoots. In time we learn to trust BMD’s recommendations but may still happily use a card not on the approved list.

Few vendors test their cards on BMD cameras. I know Wise Advanced owns BMD cameras to test their cards. Other vendors may do the same, but not all do. These cards/drives are often designed around achieving high rated performance targets, but that is very misleading as they may not be able to achieve that performance recording video with a single clip that is hours long. Or they may not tolerate having several hundred small clips.

When the card is designed for high burst performance in a computer, the card inevitably will rarely be formatted as the users typically simply delete files they no longer need. But that resulting fragmentation can adversely affect the sustained performance writing ‘unlimited’ video in BMD cameras.

All cards have a limited life cycle just like rechargeable lithium ion batteries. I would think BMD’s testing includes a heavy application of reformatting the card as well. Original cards were designed in a very simple single layer cell; they were very reliable using SLC technology and the circuit sizes were large. Presently a SLC card, if you could find it, would cost much more than the various forms of MLC and similar technologies designed to use much smaller circuits, less power, enormous capacity, and so on. Although it might be counter-intuitive, a modern design with a higher price tag is likely going to be worth it in the long run compared to the entry level card that may not prove to be reliable in another year or two.

So the cheaper card may work today but may fail in a few years; I’m still using all my cards form 2016 but they cost an arm and a leg compared to today’s prices. Even if you’re just asking for short term performance, you can’t predict when your time is up. The few hundred dollars you save may be trivial if you’re faced with a reshoot due to card failure. You may well also lose a client. Add it up and BMD is providing us with a free service for which we are the beneficiaries.

I’m not saying “don’t use a less expensive card!” We all want to economize when it makes sense. But possibly you are taking a greater risk than is warranted. Spend your money to save them money… and your reputation.

For many years I have continued to bring mics and recording equipment when it isn’t ’needed’ because someone else is taking care of that. I do it anyway, just in case. Monday the shoot involved working with someone new to me responsible for audio recording and effects, using their own (more expensive) gear. Well Monday finally proved fortuitous as the other guy’s equipment unfortunately hard failed but we rerouted their four vocal and instrument audio XLR cables to my modest MixPre-6 II. That meant I couldn’t use my own mics of course as they suddenly became ‘redundant.’ This was an expensive shoot for the producer and it would have been a failure without having redundant reliable gear.
Rick Lang
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Odnamra

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Re: BMCC6K Angelbird AV PRO SE vs AV PRO MK2

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 5:42 pm

Thank you for the detailed reply, Rick. I ended up going with the SE versions for now, but I noticed that the cards get super hot in the camera. Is that a known issue?
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rick.lang

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Re: BMCC6K Angelbird AV PRO SE vs AV PRO MK2

PostThu Nov 30, 2023 6:06 pm

That’s fine and can be expected. I’m not an expert on measuring the temperature of cards under heavy use, but they do heat up. Your card might be hotter than some based on your description. Did you buy two cards to have a backup in case of premature failure (or just to reduce the workload per card)? If you bought one card, I’d be interested to hear how it performs under heavy use.

Congratulations on your camera choice!
Rick Lang
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Odnamra

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Re: BMCC6K Angelbird AV PRO SE vs AV PRO MK2

PostFri Dec 01, 2023 5:50 pm

I bought two so that I can swap between them while shooting.

I'll report back if I have any issues!

Thanks again for your notes.
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Omar Mohammad

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Re: BMCC6K Angelbird AV PRO SE vs AV PRO MK2

PostThu Dec 07, 2023 11:17 am

I'm using Angelbird Pro SE 512GB, so far so good, no issues whatsoever even at highest codec and resolution.
MacBook M3 Pro 16”, 18 GPU, 36GB RAM, 1TB | Sonoma 14.5
BMCC6K | Sigma 12-24 f4 | Canon 50 f1.8 | Sigma MC-21 | DJI RS4 Pro
DaVinci Resolve Studio 19 beta 3
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Dan Cotreau

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Re: BMCC6K Angelbird AV PRO SE vs AV PRO MK2

PostSat May 25, 2024 5:28 pm

So I grabbed an AV Pro SE for the BMCC6k and is working fine so far. Only to find out that Angelbird cards have or maybe require updates to their cards. And said update must be done with and Angelbird Card reader. So of course I don't have an Angelbird card reader. My bad on not deep diving into this before I grabbed the card. I didn't expect a memory card to require an update.

How important are these updates? And is everyone just doing this with an Angelbird reader?

Thnx.
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rick.lang

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Re: BMCC6K Angelbird AV PRO SE vs AV PRO MK2

PostSat May 25, 2024 6:25 pm

If your card is working with your camera, you don’t need to update the data controller on the card. If it has problems, then you may need to update the card.
Rick Lang
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Omar Mohammad

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Re: BMCC6K Angelbird AV PRO SE vs AV PRO MK2

PostSat May 25, 2024 7:33 pm

I second Rick.
MacBook M3 Pro 16”, 18 GPU, 36GB RAM, 1TB | Sonoma 14.5
BMCC6K | Sigma 12-24 f4 | Canon 50 f1.8 | Sigma MC-21 | DJI RS4 Pro
DaVinci Resolve Studio 19 beta 3
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Dan Cotreau

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Re: BMCC6K Angelbird AV PRO SE vs AV PRO MK2

PostSat May 25, 2024 7:46 pm

rick.lang wrote:If your card is working with your camera, you don’t need to update the data controller on the card. If it has problems, then you may need to update the card.


Ok. So it sounds like it may be prudent for me to have the Angelbird reader just in case. I suppose better to know that now than when there is a problem.

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