Black magic needs to fix their advertisement

I recently just watched a video from matteo bertoli about the ursa mini pro 12k. and that video made me fall in love with my 12k again, and made me angry. He's right blackmagic did a terrible job advertising this camera. This camera is amazing, and it's on par with an alexa mini LF. If you look at the product page they hyped up the G2 pro, but the 12k is dull and boring. Blackmagic you made a sensor that has equal green, red, and blue, not to mention this is an in house sensor your first in house sensor! That's huge! Forget the 12k for a second, you can do 8K at 120fps! 120 FRAMES PER SECOND, and then 12k at 60fps. The 8K 120 is mentioned in the beginning. But it's in regular text, something like that needs to be in a heading, so it can grab people's attention. The way you advertised the 12k and G2 is weird. You make it seem like the 12k doesn't have nd filters, or is not capable of 120fps, especially by looking at the price difference. Yea people can click on the products and view more. But you want to grab people's attention. Yall focus a lot on the 12k but there are other things that make this camera amazing. I downloaded John Brawley's footage and those are amazing to color grade. Yall need to take a page from aputure's way of advertising, their videos always get me hyped. Yall have amazing products, yall need to start pushing the hype.

matteo video:

Alexa Mini LF vs Ursa 12K Pro

Maybe it should sell better than it does, but the 12K is not a consumer camera (buyers of a $6500 camera body will likely perform due diligence), the genius who came up with "buttery LUTs" doesn't sound like a marketing expert, and BMD probably doesn't want to run an advertising campaign based on "Looks just like an Alexa! You can see it on some guy's youtube channel!"

I've got more complaints than Carter has little liver pills about marketing. (Are you old enough to get that?)

I don't even know where to start.

It does this and this!!! Ya, but only in this mode and with this turned off and... and... and.

YouTube: Look at these specs! Look at these buttons! Look at my face! Subscribe!

YouTube: Here are direct tests! But they all look the same after YouTube mashes the video.

It will work with any lens! It has auto fucus, follow focus, auto iris! But only with these two lenses.

It's new! It has features! Give us your money!

You get the drift.

The BM 12K is a nice sub 10k camera but it’s no Alexa Mini LF. Certainly, in the right hands, the camera can make impressive pictures. That goes as well with the UMP4.6K G2, and the Pocket series of cameras. And that goes too with the Sony FX series, the Canon C series, and so on. Again, in the right hands. No amount of advertising will make the picture any better.

Biased opinion....

There is no question that the camera on image quality can be considered very close to the top echelons of cinema cameras.

Yeah. The 12K shouldn't have 12K in the name as he says. It turns people off. The most common thing I hear is "I don't need 12K" and "the files are too large"

People say this from a position of ignorance. If you say this then you don't really know what you're talking about.

I've had major studio's complain that they won't be able to deal with the massive file sizes.

My standard answer to this is compare to Arriraw which they're all used to dealing with.

Arriraw is 1TB per hour.

12K BRAW in Q3 is also about 1TB per hour.

None of them have usually actually even bothered to test or try to compare. They just assume because there's 12K in the name that files are massive. They really aren't.

The camera is in an awkward niche. A little too expensive for most of the users on these forums. And not quite functional enough for the users who are working on higher profile higher budget shows to be a primary camera.

On top of that the main barrier I think is that issue of service. Higher tier cameras come with an expectation of after service that goes beyond the stock 1 year warranty. The expectation that even user caused issues can be fixed for a fee.

JB

* I really don't understand the hate for Matteo and his buttery Luts. I think his images look great, and in a thread about marketing, I guess he does too good of a job selling his creative taste in the form of a LUT?

I make my own LUTs. I would never buy his luts. But great that he can package those lots and make money from them. I'm not sure why he gets so much derision for it.

When I got a 12K for reviewing, most of my colleagues around looked at that prominent number on the side and said “who needs that?”
I kept telling them to look at the colors, not the number. When I asked a very experienced DoP among my friends to try it for a day, I even taped the numbers over and told him it’s a prototype. He loved the image!
So, yes, I think you got a point there.
But John also made an important point about the availability of parts and service. I think BM should offer an additional, paid option to guarantee service for a certain number of years. The 12K is in a difficult market niche without that. I’d hate to see it end up as a collector’s item based on its innovative sensor for rich amateurs.
But let’s see if the sensor technology will trickle down to cheaper models.

Everything I've seen from this camera, admittedly mostly on YT, demonstrates terrific picture quality on a par with some of the very best imaging available. But I don't think it's just a marketing issue, this camera is a 1st generation of quite a novel and very innovative solution to both some of proprietary wars surrounding digital cinema acquisition and designed very specifically around it's codec eco system. It's a 12K camera because in order to get actual 12K you have to shoot in 12K, there is no Prores 4444 XQ, notwithstanding the huge merits of shooting in 8K, with it. Whilst as John says, the file sizes can compete favourably with even the mildly 'compressed' Arriraw HDE, the perception, perhaps mistakenly, through to post of 12K media, can be quite alarming - 6K Braw can be quite hard for post to accept even.

Added to which, I echo the concerns about service and support, in high end production, although it's cheap enough to have a spare or two on hand.

I think given the technology as it stands, it would be very difficult for BMD to market it in another way, i.e as a production Cinema camera for 4K, that has a superb 12K sensor. Resolution is not necessarily it's quality, since beyond a certain point these days I feel we are chasing rainbows, and most good cameras now have more than enough. It's the fabulous colour and unique sensor/codec combination. I imagine as new generations of this technology appear BMD will address these perceptions.

12K absolutely scared people away. It’s such an intimidating number when people are already intimidated by 8K. I see people freaking over the idea that lenses aren’t sharp enough for 12K.

I think that Blackmagic needs to stop naming their cameras based on resolution, and they should start selling resolution as a choice. Not say that it’s a 12K camera, but say loudly that it’s whatever resolution you need or want. You want an 8K camera, you got it, full sensor RAW! You want a 4K camera, you got it, full sensor RAW! It’s three cameras in one!

I actually was a good target consumer for the 12k because I understood and appreciated it's strengths, have brand loyalty to Blackmagic as a company, and really was very interested in the color advancements. Additionally, when they did the price drop, it put it into a range that was not unreasonable for the commercial work I do.

One thing that WAS a bit hard to understand from a marketing perspective was how it's dynamic range worked. It seems like the answer was "it's complicated to explain, but it's good"? haha. I say that tongue in cheek to some degree, but perhaps others felt that too.

But to beat a dead horse, what kept me from buying it was simply the form factor. I have owned a G1 Ursa and currently own a G2. It's just too dang hard to balance on gimbals and things of that sort. One may argue that I'm trying to use the wrong tool for the job, but I cannot really afford a "gimbal only" camera. So I need an all-rounder. I love my G2, and my pocket 6k kind of works for gimbal. But it's just been a very frustrating journey with form factor for all of the BM cameras I've owned. Everything else, I have enjoyed.

So, for my .02 cents, I would probably still be interested in the 12k camera with the exact same specs today, if only it were in a more functional form factor. That's really what I need from BM to upgrade a camera at this point.

Cheers!

Biased opinion....

There is no question that the camera on image quality can be considered very close to the top echelons of cinema cameras.

Yeah. The 12K shouldn't have 12K in the name as he says. It turns people off. The most common thing I hear is "I don't need 12K" and "the files are too large"

People say this from a position of ignorance. If you say this then you don't really know what you're talking about.

I've had major studio's complain that they won't be able to deal with the massive file sizes.

My standard answer to this is compare to Arriraw which they're all used to dealing with.

Arriraw is 1TB per hour.

12K BRAW in Q3 is also about 1TB per hour.

None of them have usually actually even bothered to test or try to compare. They just assume because there's 12K in the name that files are massive. They really aren't.

The camera is in an awkward niche. A little too expensive for most of the users on these forums. And not quite functional enough for the users who are working on higher profile higher budget shows to be a primary camera.

On top of that the main barrier I think is that issue of service. Higher tier cameras come with an expectation of after service that goes beyond the stock 1 year warranty. The expectation that even user caused issues can be fixed for a fee. I found an informative article about ad exchanges on the SmartyAds blog. The article explained what is an ad exchange https://smartyads.com/blog/what-is-an-ad-exchange is and how it functions as a digital marketplace where advertisers and publishers can buy and sell ad inventory in real-time. It detailed the benefits of using ad exchanges, such as improved efficiency and broader reach. This comprehensive overview helped me understand the importance of ad exchanges in the digital advertising ecosystem. I highly recommend reading it for anyone interested in digital marketing.

JB

* I really don't understand the hate for Matteo and his buttery Luts. I think his images look great, and in a thread about marketing, I guess he does too good of a job selling his creative taste in the form of a LUT?

I make my own LUTs. I would never buy his luts. But great that he can package those lots and make money from them. I'm not sure why he gets so much derision for it.

But still, no matter how it's done, it can always be done better. There's no limit to perfection.

On top of that the main barrier I think is that issue of service. Higher tier cameras come with an expectation of after service that goes beyond the stock 1 year warranty. The expectation that even user caused issues can be fixed for a fee.

JB

John you got the point, whenever I have mentioned bmd cameras in larger jobs they have always challenged me on reliability and in case of problems the possibility of repair.
ironically them are the only ones that have never left me stranded, but a few problems with cameras of every single other brand, a few hiccups I have found (and obviously overcome).
bmd should create an extended warranty, and availability of parts to repair machines beyond three years.
myself to avoid generating electronic junk would be willing to pay up to 40% of the value of the machine for an official repair.

… ironically BMD cameras] are the only ones that have never left me stranded, but a few problems with cameras of every single other brand...

In my very limited experience, you make your reputation very early in the game and there are no level playing fields when producers are calling the shots as they are more likely to continue old relationships with existing manufacturers rather than risk their reputations on another new player (BMD). RED was the exception to the rule but they built their cult over a period of several years before delivering their first cameras that never met their marketing price/performance goals.

BMD didn’t follow that model by stunning everyone in 2012/13, by simply delivering amazing value, without nurturing their own cult. So it will take a teutonic shift in support and marketing which is not the same as writing exaggerated ad copy on their website. That new approach though is difficult given their financial structure. I’m not saying that BMD has to change as they continue to deliver great technology, that we appreciate, but surely the URSA Cine 65 17K client base must be nurtured differently than the BMPCC4K. Perhaps, unknown to us, that new client base is already being cultivated.

RED was the exception to the rule but they built their cult over a period of several years before delivering their first cameras that never met their marketing price/performance goals.

We got ridiculed all around when showing up with a Red One in its early times.

Guess they didn’t like the Drink Milk promotional short?

RED was the exception to the rule but they built their cult over a period of several years before delivering their first cameras that never met their marketing price/performance goals.

you had used the right word "their cult".
they did good cameras, but often they not met what they promise, time of shipping, reability of first cameras, their forced ecosystem where you are inglobed...

And a user forum where you were not allowed to follow any other cult!
I really appreciate the open atmosphere here, where all that's needed is simple netiquette.

I bought a RED in 2011 and was on REDUser for some years. It was a 'unique' environment. Every announcement from Jim was cheered on. Critical questions were quickly fend off by members. I can't quite recall but I think years before Jinni Tech proved that REDmags were made with cheap Chinese components, someone on REDUser raised concerns about that and got aggressively shut down. It was one of several incidents where I realized the nature of the 'community'.
This forum is so much better.