Re-release an updated BMD Pocket OG?

Hello,

Was watching this video and thinking about the new Lumix S9. I really want a good EDC camera, something small and simple, but is fully competent in a filmmaking environment. The OG was that. The BMPCC 4k got way too big. If BMD would re-release this camera with some processor updates, keep the same sensor and size of the camera, as well as simple menus, you'd sell them like hotcakes. Bet.

What you're asking for—a super portable camera with a small format sensor and a combination of decent codec and log gamma—is an iPhone. I know that this guy makes the argument that you won't receive text messages on a BMPCC but, like... turn on Do Not Disturb; turn on Airplane mode; create a Focus preset that activates when you open the BMD Camera App; etc.

I own an original BMPCC and you can't change the most annoying things about it without turning it in to a BMPCC4K. This kind of camera—ultra portable cinema camera—does not and will not sell because it just doesn't offer anything beyond what most people will get from using the cellphone they already own. It just is what it is.

The closest thing is the Sigma FP.

You'd lose the bet. It was a great cinema camera for entertaining the thought of making movies -- as long as you weren't faced with the difficulty of actually trying to shoot one with it. That ownership fantasy used to cost 10s of thousands, and BMD offered it for a mere $999.

These days, the iphone is selling that fantasy.

And the big companies do "EDC" better, it would be hard for BMD to compete on features.

How about a CinePI?

It's a project I've been developing for a number of years now and we're just starting to see the potential as new sensor modules are being developed and made to work with Raspberry Pi's.

The IMX585 which I recently began testing, is a very compelling sensor ( 1/1.2" , 4K, 60p and has dual gain function similar to those legendary fairchild sensors ) and we can capture it all in TRUE CinemaDNG RAW and record direct to CFExpress cards.

And it's open source, so modify / edit and customize to your heart's content.

The closest thing is the Sigma FP.

I had no idea that camera was so small. Damn. I need to put my Cinema 6K on a diet.

Its great if you pair it with a small pancake lens, once you put on a cage and use bigger lens you might as well use a bigger camera, at least for better balance. The battery sucks anyway so you end up attaching a big external battery which make it no longer a small camera. I don't miss it.

What you're asking for—a super portable camera with a small format sensor and a combination of decent codec and log gamma—is an iPhone. I know that this guy makes the argument that you won't receive text messages on a BMPCC but, like... turn on Do Not Disturb; turn on Airplane mode; create a Focus preset that activates when you open the BMD Camera App; etc.

I own an original BMPCC and you can't change the most annoying things about it without turning it in to a BMPCC4K. This kind of camera—ultra portable cinema camera—does not and will not sell because it just doesn't offer anything beyond what most people will get from using the cellphone they already own. It just is what it is.

and Iphone doesn't have a lens mount for one unless you want to rig it out. And it's not simple in the fact that if you want to use a filmmaking app you have to boot that up. Plus the BMD OG footage looks better. Also, Iphone doesn't take SD cards, you'd need to transfer that footage through the internet, and depending where you're at that can be an issue. Sometimes you need more than just the internal storage. So, not simpler in my opinion

Its great if you pair it with a small pancake lens, once you put on a cage and use bigger lens you might as well use a bigger camera, at least for better balance. The battery sucks anyway so you end up attaching a big external battery which make it no longer a small camera. I don't miss it.

I'm hoping they can increase the battery life in 2024 with a more powerful and efficient processor.

The closest thing is the Sigma FP.

The FP is great. Wish they didn't raise the price on it. Also wish they'd add compressed flavors of CDNG. Maybe they do now, I'm out of the loop on that.

How about a CinePI?

It's a project I've been developing for a number of years now and we're just starting to see the potential as new sensor modules are being developed and made to work with Raspberry Pi's.

The IMX585 which I recently began testing, is a very compelling sensor ( 1/1.2" , 4K, 60p and has dual gain function similar to those legendary fairchild sensors ) and we can capture it all in TRUE CinemaDNG RAW and record direct to CFExpress cards.

And it's open source, so modify / edit and customize to your heart's content.

It's cool, but not exactly an EDC camera haha.

and Iphone doesn't have a lens mount for one unless you want to rig it out. And it's not simple in the fact that if you want to use a filmmaking app you have to boot that up. Plus the BMD OG footage looks better. Also, Iphone doesn't take SD cards, you'd need to transfer that footage through the internet, and depending where you're at that can be an issue. Sometimes you need more than just the internal storage. So, not simpler in my opinion

iPhone had more lens adapter, latest IPad spot was done in this way, read a post on Prolost blog.

iPhone had a battery that work for more time, and during the work you can charge by induction.

iPhone had usb-c to use directly external ssd, in the mean time if had a simple 256gb you had a lots of space to record. And you can use the same usb-c to transfer at speed of light shooting.

I had both, original Bmpcc and iPhone, and I understand that camera was amazing at that time, but not today with actual standard of computation shooting of phone.

Don’t forget limit of bmpcc :
Crop 3x, ridiculous battery time, not autofocus, need to external monitor to check focus, and more…

Remember good thing ok, don’t forget the bad point

Ps I had also an Ursa, a p6k, a Fuji x-h2, I can have many different point of view, and original bmpcc today not have reason to be used.


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

and Iphone doesn't have a lens mount for one unless you want to rig it out. And it's not simple in the fact that if you want to use a filmmaking app you have to boot that up. Plus the BMD OG footage looks better. Also, Iphone doesn't take SD cards, you'd need to transfer that footage through the internet, and depending where you're at that can be an issue. Sometimes you need more than just the internal storage. So, not simpler in my opinion

iPhone had more lens adapter, latest IPad spot was done in this way, read a post on Prolost blog.

iPhone had a battery that work for more time, and during the work you can charge by induction.

iPhone had usb-c to use directly external ssd, in the mean time if had a simple 256gb you had a lots of space to record. And you can use the same usb-c to transfer at speed of light shooting.

I had both, original Bmpcc and iPhone, and I understand that camera was amazing at that time, but not today with actual standard of computation shooting of phone.

Don’t forget limit of bmpcc :
Crop 3x, ridiculous battery time, not autofocus, need to external monitor to check focus, and more…

Remember good thing ok, don’t forget the bad point

Ps I had also an Ursa, a p6k, a Fuji x-h2, I can have many different point of view, and original bmpcc today not have reason to be used.


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

I have considered using a smart phone for video, but if I did it would likely be an android bc apple is so stingy about having removable storage. Nothing against people who use smart phones, and I like that anamorphic options are so cheap. And sensor sizes are getting better.

All of the negatives you mentioned would be lessened by a better processor, which wasn't available when the original camera was released. People like the look of the original sensor, it definitely looks pretty great. And when I use BMPCC OG setting on cinematch it definitely shows.

There's a cult following with the BMPCC OG camera, and even if BMD made a special edition release they'd sell quite a few.

It's cool, but not exactly an EDC camera haha.

The original Pocket isn't an EDC camera either, though, mainly due to lack of internal stabilization. Sure, you can use stabilized lenses for static shots, but optical image stabilization on lenses doesn't work well for panning, tilting, etc. because the stabilization is always playing catch-up and trying to correct your moves. With that small, light camera and tiny sensor, handheld footage is very jittery and stabilization in post usually ends up looking like jello.

The smallest reliable handheld rig I've used for the original Pocket is a pistol grip plus the Zacuto viewfinder, so you can press the viewfinder to your eye for one point of stabilization and use the hand grip for another, with your other hand on the lens to adjust focus. That works reasonably well, although the viewfinder tends to fog up and you can't see anything at that point.

With its size and form factor , the OG BMPCC was a nice little tool .. Rodney Charters used it extensively and discovered that the colour space was very close to the Alexa .. And reliable , I own three of them and they all work , no problem . Even better with a Speed Booster ..

BM could very well use the same Philosophy , and rectify the weak points of the OG .. Micro Hdmi and Power Connector replaced with something more robust ..

A better battery .. and a well designed housing , with some Threaded Holes around , so there would be no need to use a Cage .. Let's say , a more Professional Housing ..

A CFexpress Memory Card ..

A sensor , more or less of the same size , but with a RGBW design .. Full Hd is , maybe , a bit low , so just a bit more , something like 2.5 k , same resolution .. as on the BMCC .. and the ability to save in Prores and Braw ..

The advantage for BM could be to touch a huge crowd of possible Customers .. who cannot afford , or do not want to spend too much money , but are interested in Cine Quality .. like Students , or young people .. That could very well attract many towards the BM Ecosystem ..

Just my Two Euros ...

Regards from France / MIKE ..

They've done that with the Micro Cinema Camera OG and now the 4k version.

They've done that with the Micro Cinema Camera OG and now the 4k version.

Sort of, but the need to use an external monitor (and deal with those infernal little buttons to navigate the menu) makes these cameras bulkier and harder to use than the original Pocket.

I think the new Panasonic S9 could be considered a successor to the OG Pocket in terms of being an everyday carry camera; its main limitation is short recording times (15 minutes max) but it's small, has internal stabilization and decent low-light performance, and can work with thousands of lenses via adapters. If someone came out with a camera with that form factor and those features, but with BMD's image quality and color science, it could be a winner.

They've done that with the Micro Cinema Camera OG and now the 4k version.

Sort of, but the need to use an external monitor (and deal with those infernal little buttons to navigate the menu) makes these cameras bulkier and harder to use than the original Pocket.

I think the new Panasonic S9 could be considered a successor to the OG Pocket in terms of being an everyday carry camera; its main limitation is short recording times (15 minutes max) but it's small, has internal stabilization and decent low-light performance, and can work with thousands of lenses via adapters. If someone came out with a camera with that form factor and those features, but with BMD's image quality and color science, it could be a winner.

The internal monitor was'nt good enough to judge focus. A better monitor will need even more power and likely would need a cooling fan that would result in a bigger form factor.

What you're asking for—a super portable camera with a small format sensor and a combination of decent codec and log gamma—is an iPhone. I know that this guy makes the argument that you won't receive text messages on a BMPCC but, like... turn on Do Not Disturb; turn on Airplane mode; create a Focus preset that activates when you open the BMD Camera App; etc.

I own an original BMPCC and you can't change the most annoying things about it without turning it in to a BMPCC4K. This kind of camera—ultra portable cinema camera—does not and will not sell because it just doesn't offer anything beyond what most people will get from using the cellphone they already own. It just is what it is.

As an owner of an iPhone 15 Pro Max, I can safely say that we’re not “there” yet, where an iPhone can replace even a 10-year old camera like the OG Pocket. The reasons are many…

1. Aperture is fixed
2. The sensor is miniscule, which creates field-of-view problems, etc.
3. No RAW video
4. Lowlight is a terrible mess, even worse than the OG Pocket
5. Lens options and quality. Add-on iPhone lenses are a workaround with major visual degradation
6. No variable shutter angle


There are more reasons, but these are already massive. Now, don’t get me wrong, an iPhone Pro takes amazing phone video. And the computational DOF lens blur is pretty amazing. But my dreams of replacing my Blackmagic cameras for travel videos, etc. are still pipe dreams.

And, to respond to the original question… YES, I would buy an updated OG Pocket in an INSTANT.

I believe that the Size and the Form Factor of the OG Bmpcc , by Themselves , were already a key to Success .. The General Philosophy of the Cam .. and the MFT Mount ..

Ten Years later , all Components have been much improved , sensors , image processors , Memory Cards , screens ..

The Philosophy would be to recreate a BMPCC , with the latest components , RGBW Sensor , Colour Science gen 5 , and with a more Professionnal Housing . For monitoring , beside the Hdmi connector , a " Micro-SDI " Connector is possible ( an SMA Coax connector for instance .. )

There is also always a need for that kind of cams , as " Action Cams " , to put on a Vehicle .. on a Drone , on a Gimbal , many uses are possible .. A Cam you also can have in Hand , any Time , anyWhere , for just " Point and Shoot " , travelling ..

Anyway .. I do not pretend to know everything .. but those are my Two Euros ..

Have a nice Day , take it Easy .. with my Regards from France ..

Mike ..

I still believe the OG Pocket was the best cinema camera offer ever when looking at price/performance ratio.

I would buy a true successor in a heart beat but that would need to include a dual gain output Fairchild sensor and I doubt they'll ever go back to those.

The internal monitor was'nt good enough to judge focus. A better monitor will need even more power and likely would need a cooling fan that would result in a bigger form factor.

Pretty certain the monitor isn’t the thing that requires cooling. My iPhone sure doesn’t need a fan and it’s got a huge display. And its battery isn’t all that big.

The internal monitor was'nt good enough to judge focus. A better monitor will need even more power and likely would need a cooling fan that would result in a bigger form factor.

Pretty certain the monitor isn’t the thing that requires cooling. My iPhone sure doesn’t need a fan and it’s got a huge display. And its battery isn’t all that big.

The Xilinx Spartan 6 is a Commodore 64 compared to Apple’s ARM processors. Blackmagic has traditionally used FPGA processors over more efficient ASICs. An ASIC needs to be purpose built whereas an FPGA has a more flexible architecture. If a new Pocket could feature an ASIC or better yet an ARM processor then battery life would be greatly increased. With the OG Pocket you were lucky to get 45 minutes of recording with the tiny Nikon batteries. A more efficient processor or a larger battery would be necessary if the status quo is maintained.

Good Luck

The internal monitor was'nt good enough to judge focus. A better monitor will need even more power and likely would need a cooling fan that would result in a bigger form factor.

Pretty certain the monitor isn’t the thing that requires cooling. My iPhone sure doesn’t need a fan and it’s got a huge display. And its battery isn’t all that big.

This is Blackmagic with RAW codec. 1080p won't cut it so it will need to be 4k RAW.

If they were to release an updated version of the OG Pocket they should just use the Sony IMX585 sensor like the Pi camera above. They are not too expensive (certainly if you buy in quantities like BM). They have 4K resolution, 16bit output, DGO etc. That would be a true successor to the OG in my opinion.

The internal monitor was'nt good enough to judge focus. A better monitor will need even more power and likely would need a cooling fan that would result in a bigger form factor.

Pretty certain the monitor isn’t the thing that requires cooling. My iPhone sure doesn’t need a fan and it’s got a huge display. And its battery isn’t all that big.

This is Blackmagic with RAW codec. 1080p won't cut it so it will need to be 4k RAW.

I think you guys are missing the point. The sensor, even at 1080p had a 'look' to it. That's why the camera has a cult following.

It's that Fairchild sensor.

I think you guys are missing the point. The sensor, even at 1080p had a 'look' to it. That's why the camera has a cult following.

Too many variables in that youtube test to reveal any useful conclusions. The sensor on the original BMPCC is tiny, Super 16 size; the sensor on the Sigma fp is full-frame. To achieve the same framing as the BMPCC, the Sigma needs to be closer to the subject and the depth of field for any given aperture will be smaller. To achieve a similar depth of field to that in the footage from the BMPCC, the lens on the Sigma needs to be stopped down more. Stopping down changes the lens's character. To top it off, the person doing these tests used different lenses on the two cameras. That makes this video as much of a comparison between two lenses as it is between two cameras/sensors.

To do a comparison I'd suggest the best approach is to use the same lens on a BMPCC 4K in Super 16 crop mode and on the original BMPCC, color-match them, and see how they compare. You could also do it with an Ursa 12K in Super 16 crop mode, or the new BMCC 6K in Super 16 crop. But you need to use the same lens.

I don't think this was meant to be a scientific comparison

I don't think this was meant to be a scientific comparison

It wasn't, for sure, but it doesn't support any claims of an intrinsic "look" to the BMMCC or original Pocket's sensor. Every difference you see compared with the Sigma could be due to the different sensor size plus the different lenses.

I still use the OG Pocket and BMMCC; I don't use anything else for video; I love those cameras. But I'm still not convinced that the sensor itself (apart from its size) is the main contributor to that look. The only argument I've seen that makes sense is that the dual gain made for more pleasant rolloff, but I'd love to see a controlled comparison with another camera in Super 16 crop to see how much of the look can be attributed to sensor size alone, although the number of pixels might be different and that would introduce another variable.

I think you guys are missing the point. The sensor, even at 1080p had a 'look' to it. That's why the camera has a cult following.

This "cult".... How many members does it have? What movies have they made? Do they have basic coloring skills or is this mostly "point and shoot"?

How many would survive a blind test with (say) the BMPCC 4K graded/reduced to look like the BMPCC?

I feel like I’m having Deja vu a bit but what camera do you like John?

We’re currently using the BMMCC OG bit I’m always open to suggestions and a lively debate/discussion

To do a comparison I'd suggest the best approach is to use the same lens on a BMPCC 4K in Super 16 crop mode and on the original BMPCC, color-match them, and see how they compare. You could also do it with an Ursa 12K in Super 16 crop mode, or the new BMCC 6K in Super 16 crop. But you need to use the same lens.

If this approach is used, It will unfairly bias the larger sensor camera when using a lens with vintage cinematic character. They would only be equivalent if you used lenses that are equally sharp at the edges.

Les Zellan wrote:

"Part of the Cooke Look is the focus fall-off at the edges. Our lenses are not “flat” meaning that we do not try to make the corners and the center equally sharp.

If you draw a vertical line through the center axis and you spin that around and make a circle, that’s what we call the picture height area. Obviously, that’s a larger circle in Full Frame than it is in Super35. This area on a Cooke lens, the sweet spot, is where we pay a lot of attention. Outside that circle, we let the image fall off to the corners. The center is as sharp as can be, and as we move to the edges of frame, it gets slightly softer. We do that because most of the time you are filming people or things where the area of interest is towards the center, and the edge fall-off adds a pleasing dimensionality to the image and brings the viewer’s attention toward the center.

Now, if you think about a Full Frame lens, keep in mind that the picture height circle is bigger. It is usually 24mm high instead of 18mm. So, if you put a Full Frame lens on a Super35 camera, the image is going to be cleaner because all that pleasing fall-off area is outside of frame."

From Les Zellan, legendary chairman of Cooke Optics
101-FDTimes-4.07-300-Cooke-Tour-2020.pdf

https://www.fdtimes.com/2020/04/07/cooke-tour-2020/

Here is a comparison:

r/bmpcc OG BMPCC VS BMPCC 6K Pro | Image Comparison between the oldest and Newest Blackmagic Pocket Cameras (Gen 1 4 & 5)
Of Two Lands

Shot on an OG BMPCC, this trailer, (Don't Stop Running) uses a good selection of MFT lenses for a cinematic look:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72506&p=516229&hilit=kenrockwell#p516229

The more modern pocket cameras and the BMCC6K FF use a dual ISO sensor, not a dual gain sensor, like the OG BMPCC has. A dual ISO sensor has 1 active signal amplifier, a dual gain one has 2.

A dual gain sensor increases dynamic range, and is a rare feature. Fairchild, subsidiary of ON, used to charge Blackmagic $2,600 for the dual gain sensor on the URSA Mini Pro G2, they also supply sensors for the Arri Alexa. The organic look of the dual gain sensor is also available on the Canon C70 and the OG BMPCC.

…On the BMPCC 4K, the analog gain is the same from 1250 to 6400 ISO, the digital gain advances from 1250 up. This ramping up of digital gain is the most apparent at ISO 1000.

This explains the dual gain sensor:

Regarding the ARRI Alexa:

"...The sensor’s 3.4K horizontal photosite count (28.17 x 18.13mm) delivered unusually large photosites for an optimal balance between image sharpness on the one hand and high dynamic range, high sensitivity, and a low noise floor on the other.

...By employing unusually large photosites (in today’s world of tiny cell phone sensors), ALEXA’s sensor exhibits high dynamic range, high sensitivity, and low crosstalk. The larger a photosite is, the more light it can capture, and the lower the noise.

...The ALEXA used the ALEV III CMOS sensor (3392×2200 effective pixels) and could shoot in resolutions up to 2880×2160 (4:3).

...Variations of the ALEXA were used by cinematographers who won the award for Best Cinematography at the Oscars every year since 2012 except for 2017."

The ARRI ALEXA is 10 years old

https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/05/27/ ... years-old/

u/wtfisrobin wrote:

“Just looking for people's opinions, as I casually look at ebay listings for cameras that, on paper, have lower spec in almost every regard lol... thinking for the cost of a kitted out Micro i could probably get a really good lens…

Is there really a reason to own both a Pocket 4K and a Pocket OG or Micro Cinema? Can you really not get the same vibe shooting cropped 1080 BRAW on the pocket 4K? Should I bite the bullet and buy and rig out a whole other kit for the "vibe"? Or do you think it's all hype, and it's silly to buy a camera chasing an enigmatic look?”

It's not just hype. Although the BMPCC 4K is way easier to get a good shot out of, within it's exposure limits the image from a Fairchild dual gain sensor, like in the OG BMPCC, URSA Mini Pro 4.6K, Canon C70 or Arri Alexa can be sexy as hell.

Re: Official "Look what I shot!" Thread

Gary Collins wrote:

"Shot this with the BMPCC OG and the BMPC 4K."



viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4848&p=968908&hilit=+Shot+this+with+the+BMPCC+#p968908

texaco87 wrote:

“Personally, I want to say the answer is a definitive yes. Part of that has to do with the DGO sensor, part of it has to do with cDNG files, and part of it has to do with the earlier color science and the nature of the color space.

On the other hand, people like to say that those differences come from a less sophisticated sensor that is desaturated in lower exposure, and that the 4K, and by extension 6k, have more information, and should therefore be able to be molded into whatever you want.

But in my opinion, there is some magic to those older Fairchild sensors. I’ve totally drank the kool-aid, I think Sony sensors, while technically great, can be boring and flat.”

r/bmpcc Is there really any 'magic' in the BMMCC or BMPCC OG that I couldn't get by shooting cropped 1080 BRAW on my Pocket 4K? Real or Hype?

https://www.reddit.com/r/bmpcc/comments ... _or_bmpcc/

u/idoperokungfu wrote:

“This camera is 10 years old and shoots 720p. When i compare the two footages the BM has a much better cinematic quality. The iphone seems to sharp and over saturated.”

donttakeawaymymango wrote:

“A lot goes into a nice image.

Shooting in LOG to have more control over colors, larger sensor than an iPhone are two that come to mind.

Like the Alexa's, the Original Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Cameras use a dual gain sensor, with very large photosites. This helps it to record 12 bit raw images with 13 stops of dynamic range. The size of these photosites means that it shoots in 1080P only. It is still prized for it's organic look that is more filmlike than many later higher resolution cameras.”

This is the sensor used in the OG BMPCC:

"The sensor has two ADC channels per column with one optimized for low light levels and the other optimized for high light levels, enabling intra-scene high dynamic range of over 88dB."

The Fairchild Imaging CIS1910A

For a narrative film, this trailer (Don't. Stop. Running) uses a good selection of lenses on the OG BMPCC:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72506&p=516229&hilit=kenrockwell#p516229

Portrait of Rome shot on the BMPCC
Of Two Lands

r/bmpcc Why does the OG BMPCC shoot better video than the Iphone 14?

https://www.reddit.com/r/bmpcc/comments ... _than_the/