The fate of the Ursa Mini 12k

I’m talking about the UMP 12k (OLPF).

With the Pyxis and Cine 12k soon to be shipping (I hope), what will happen to the middle-of-the-pack cameras? Specifically the s35 12k?

Will we see any more updates? Perhaps ONE more go with updated media?
Or do we say “it is what it is.”

I already “own” the Pyxis in the form of a 6k FF.
The Ursa Cine 12k is out of price range.
I keep finding myself wanting just a little more quality out of the image I find with the 6k ff, and I know the s35 12k would offer that. I’ve owned one before but just wished for CFexpress media.

I will venture to say it will have a similar faith that of the UMP 4.6K G2, still on the market but no more firmware updates for a very long while, and no expectations to have any. The UMP G2 is a solid workhorse and definitely has made its mark that it is still a viable camera today even without anymore updates. But that is the story of BM products and we just learn to live with it - or in your words “it is what it is”.

I’m talking about the UMP 12k (OLPF).

With the Pyxis and Cine 12k soon to be shipping (I hope), what will happen to the middle-of-the-pack cameras? Specifically the s35 12k?

Will we see any more updates? Perhaps ONE more go with updated media?
Or do we say “it is what it is.”

I already “own” the Pyxis in the form of a 6k FF.
The Ursa Cine 12k is out of price range.
I keep finding myself wanting just a little more quality out of the image I find with the 6k ff, and I know the s35 12k would offer that. I’ve owned one before but just wished for CFexpress media.

The Ursa Cine sensor is apparently the 2nd generation of the Ursa 12k sensor. It is not the same sensor as the Pyxis, as I'm sure you know. I think if anything the 2nd gen Pyxis will have an iteration of this sensor (too have 8k perhaps) and the Ursa form factor will eventually fade away.

Love my 12k OLPF, it is a bit heavy with my Arles lenses, but with an EasyRig, it's very manageable and I wouldn't trade it. I wouldn't mind it being full frame. I think it's going to die, I asked if the sensor tech was abandoned and John Brawley said absolutely not, but he was referring to the Ursa Cine as confirmation.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=207269&p=1077011&hilit=ursa+12k#p1075935

… The Ursa Cine sensor is apparently the 2nd generation of the Ursa [Mini] 12k sensor. It is not the same sensor as the Pyxis, as I'm sure you know. I think if anything the 2nd gen Pyxis will have an iteration of this sensor (too have 8k perhaps)…

URSA Mini 12K Super 35 RGBW photosite pitch 2.2 microns.

URSA Cine 12K 135 film open gate RGBW photosite pitch 2.9 microns 16 stops.

Theoretical Pyxis 2 8K 135 film open gate RGBW photosite pitch 4.39 microns might reasonably be 17 stops! With a quicker sensor readout than the URSA Cine 12K. This might be branded as the URSA Cine LT.

If true, and it’s due to the 8K configuration retaining the special capabilities of the RGBW evaluation of 6x6 photosites (instead of the limitations of conventional Bayer CFA), then this Pyxis 2 would be impossible to ignore for anyone producing 4K deliverables, regardless of the cost, it would have a market.

I know a “Pyxis Cine” would be a year or more out, though.
BMD moves at their own speed, and since I’m a diehard user, I may go back to the Ursa Mini 12k for the time being. Perhaps a sale will happen in the fall?

I want a 6k URSA 12k sensor camera.

That could provide a photosite pitch of between 5.8-6 microns depending upon their willingness to have a sensor a little larger than 36mm with 6144 horizontal pixels or stay just under 36mm like the current ‘full-frame’ sensors.

Either way if the RGBW exposure math can work with 6K, you might be shooting for about 17.5 stops dynamic range. That’s a big ‘if’ though as a 6K RGBW array might not work the same as the original 12K RGBW array.

That could provide a photosite pitch of between 5.8-6 microns depending upon their willingness to have a sensor a little larger than 36mm with 6144 horizontal pixels or stay just under 36mm like the current ‘full-frame’ sensors.

Either way if the RGBW exposure math can work with 6K, you might be shooting for about 17.5 stops dynamic range. That’s a big ‘if’ though as a 6K RGBW array might not work the same as the original 12K RGBW array.

Rick if they do something to what you're referring to, that camera would definitely be some ways out in terms of coming to market, no?. Unless it's already in development . Either way I think we'll quicker see a price drop on the Ursa cine 12k's faster than we see a Pyxis with a new sensor. I would love a Pyxis with a RGBW sensor as you mentioned above along with internal Nd's in the price range of the Ursa mini G1/G2. One can only wish I guess. Until then I'll be shooting with my 12k's OG model until the wheels fall off.

...
Either way if the RGBW exposure math can work with 6K, you might be shooting for about 17.5 stops dynamic range. That’s a big ‘if’ though as a 6K RGBW array might not work the same as the original 12K RGBW array.

In the original 12K there is a super16 size 6K that works fine. 6K super16 or 12K super35 both work for me... typically using the 6K super16 for long lens wildlife... higher frame rates and shutter speeds.

I still maintain though that there may be some better algorithm for this sensor, especially when getting the 8k and 4K from the 12K.

You may be right about a better algorithm or improved image processing technique being available at some point. Especially as it might apply to shooting in 6K RGBW.

If there is a Pyxis Pro in development, I would think it would be a beneficiary of any image improvements unless the improvements require more computational power than the camera design can support. I suspect there would be a significant price bump for the Pyxis Pro we are imagining in our discussions, putting it in the $5,000 range, while still selling the original Pyxis for those who want a lower price point.

One year in I've been very happy with my 12k OLPF after agonizing about what to do when my 4.6k G2 started to show signs of failure. The legacy media was/is kindof annoying, but since I already had all the accessories from the G2 it was so much cheaper than anything else in my consideration set it made the most sense. Even if I do wind up going to something else in the next year or two (whether from Blackmagic or someone else.)

… I think we'll quicker see a price drop on the Ursa cine 12k's faster than we see a Pyxis with a new sensor. I would love a Pyxis with a RGBW sensor as you mentioned above along with internal Nd's in the price range of the Ursa mini G1/G2. One can only wish I guess. Until then I'll be shooting with my 12k's OG model until the wheels fall off.

Logically I’d buy a Pyxis to replace my BMPCC4K since I don’t own a 6K camera. But I’d still keep the BMPCC4K as a backup or a C Camera. I’d also retain the URSA Mini 4.6K because of that Fujinon B4 zoom that lives on it. A single full frame quality parfocal cine zoom with a decent range at a budget price isn’t available.