Blackmagic Ursa Cine 12K LF

So, apparently there are some in the wild.

Also this one with downloadable footage.

Yes, I went to the shop that shot the second link you posted.

Had to see the camera in flesh. EVF is gorgeous.
My questions regarding power consuption, and what powering the camera in 14V with a regular Vmount would means to the camera were not answered unfortunatly.

Great camera, waiting for a mini version

Regarding the latitude test, it looks like the latitude range may be +5 to -6 stops depending somewhat on the scene and perhaps the skill of the colourist. Definitely looks very good +4 to -5 stops. Still will be better to see the CineD tests as those are in a repeatable and well-controlled environment and allow for easy comparison to other cameras.

The Cine 12K footage looks great. It’s a shame the camera is so heavy. I already own an Arri Amira where I find the image to be gorgeous, as everyone knows, the Alev III sensor was the best before the Alexa 35. I hate using the Amira because of how heavy it is to lug around. So I shoot with an FX6 most of the time. I wish that new 12K would’ve been carbon fiber. Heck, maybe they’ll come out with a Cini 12K mini version of it that’s carbon fiber in the future.

I have been really enjoying the Ursa Cine. I have only used the pocket cameras before this and the difference is very apparent. The biggest thing I notice is how much heat the Cine puts off. It can get pretty hot while offloading media through USB-C. Ive come to understand that heat is common for the URSA body or cinema cameras in general.

More footage,

More footage,

Nice, it has this magic Blackmagic 3D-pop.

I'm particularly impressed how well it holds the red taillights of the car. Not many cameras do that.

How do you guys embed the videos?

I understand if embedding from youtube, you just click embed & copy the code, but when bringing it into this forum to post, what are the other steps?

The Cine 12K footage looks great. It’s a shame the camera is so heavy. I already own an Arri Amira where I find the image to be gorgeous, as everyone knows, the Alev III sensor was the best before the Alexa 35. I hate using the Amira because of how heavy it is to lug around. So I shoot with an FX6 most of the time. I wish that new 12K would’ve been carbon fiber. Heck, maybe they’ll come out with a Cini 12K mini version of it that’s carbon fiber in the future.

For a solo owner/operator it is a bit on the heavy side, but if for a crewed production, it's pretty svelte. It's clearly designed around crewed productions rather than solo, given the layout, physical controls, etc.

The 12K is in the same size and weight range as the Alexa Super 35 and Venice 2, so I don't think its weight is going to be an issue for most of the folks considering it.

I have been really enjoying the Ursa Cine. I have only used the pocket cameras before this and the difference is very apparent. The biggest thing I notice is how much heat the Cine puts off. It can get pretty hot while offloading media through USB-C. Ive come to understand that heat is common for the URSA body or cinema cameras in general.

It's also a tradeoff for the insane resolution. They're very sensitive to noise and have a lot of processors and I/O in them, so they produce a lot of heat in a small volume, which means that they need very efficient thermal solutions. The BMD reps told me when I was discussing my experience reviewing the original 12K with them that the main obstacle BMD has in making the body smaller is heat.

It's a tradeoff... if BMD skimped on the thermal solution the sensor would be noisy and lose a lot of dynamic range.

BMD could have opted for lower resolution and larger photo sites, but there's probably some collection of esoteric engineering decisions that lead to it being a 12K camera and marketing just ran with it.

Me thinks it's stupid marketing to express 12K in huge letters. No esoteric engineering, but bold enough to try something new: those cameras are all about color!
Regarding heat: Anybody around here ever tried to work with an older Red, documenting in a live theatre performance? You got either noisy footage or kicked out because its fan sounded like a vacuum cleaner!

Me thinks it's stupid marketing to express 12K in huge letters. No esoteric engineering, but bold enough to try something new: those cameras are all about color!
…

Agree, just wonder if they’re ever going to sit down for a fireside chat like CineD used to conduct in which there would be some discussions of interest. Nowadays all media seems to be driven as if they are sales agents touting the strengths of a vendor’s product without any inquiry into the pros and cons and the decision process that must have gone on within BMD. Why are we left with only patent documents and product specs? It’s human nature to want a conversation and to learn more rather than only be told repeatedly what we already know.

I'm particularly impressed how well it holds the red taillights of the car. Not many cameras do that.

Remember that this is shot during daylight, might be a different story during nighttime when you let a lot more light in.

I tested the first incarnation of the 12K at night with a red Neon sign, and it was already impressive.
Modern LED taillights can be really nasty, even with enough light around.

Interestingly I shot some CineStill 800T earlier this year of neon signs and shot digital copies on my Sony as well to compare. There's an interesting difference between how film and digital handle the red neon signs. I think Blackmagic has definitely found a special sauce for the replication. The RGBW sensor they have made is truly something special.

Don't forget that Black Magic has some of the world's best color scientists on its staff...

If Phase One made cinema cameras they'd be like the BMD 12K.

But they'd cost $420,000.

the NEW Blackmagic URSA Cine 12k with Panavision and Cooke Lenses (Ben Saffer, London, UK)

"We recently tested the new Blackmagic URSA Cine 12k with some of the best lenses in the world, from Panavision and Cooke Optics - I haven't seen many tests of this camera yet with top class optics so hopefully this gives a good sense of how it looks compared to other top level cinema cameras - spoiler - its pretty good!"

Blackmagic URSA Cine 12k x Panavision and Cooke lenses - UNCUT (Ben Saffer, London, UK)

"The long and nerdy version of our recent lens tests with the Blackmagic URSA Cine 12k at Panavision and Cooke Optics in London"

ProAV

03:00

ProAV

03:00

I think this camera is going to truly surprise people. Especially how given the massive amount of flexibility/power it has.

ProAV

03:00

I think this camera is going to truly surprise people. Especially how given the massive amount of flexibility/power it has.

Agreed! All the footage excites me. Wish I could afford one right now. But sadly still dealing with aftermath of Hurricanes. Got FEMA money to clean and put furniture into storage. So, still need to figure out where I'm moving.

Hopefully next year I'm back on my feet and get the funds together to buy an URSA Cine 12K. It's everything I've asked for over the last 4-years.

Ursa Cine 12K at 8K 8192x3408 (2.40:1) aspect ratio to get 224fps

New old info:

has anyone learned about support for the URSA Cine 12k?
I know it has been a concern for some potential buyers, spending $15k on a camera, that want/need fairly immediate support if a problem should occur. Is the warranty the same or can you extend it?
I'm just asking as a (possible) potential buyer.

I don't know yet, but if you find out please let us know

In the mean time, I'm still in line for a review copy... sigh. It's probably a long line.

This camera is going to shake the industry at different levels, including the high end.

Full-Frame (12K, 8K, 4K) and super35 (9K) in one powerhouse of camera.

And Black Magic has a bit of color science expertise in house.

If Arri made this it would cost $250,000 for just the body and there would only be 5-6 of them ever made

Well the URSA Cine 12K did a great job on that football footage, but hat’s off to the camera operator who was amazing.

Razor thin depth of field.

seems like a sensor issue maybe....

This camera is going to shake the industry at different levels, including the high end.

Full-Frame (12K, 8K, 4K) and super35 (9K) in one powerhouse of camera.

I expected to appreciate the colors and motion in this video—and they were fantastic—but what really surprised me was the compression ratio. Shooting something like this, with lots of motion and high-frequency detail, at 18:1 compression wouldn’t have even crossed my mind. Yet, the result looks amazing, even on YouTube! There’s definitely something special about the sensor and codec combination in this camera. I’ve been more than happy with low-motion, moderate-detail narrative work on the UMP12K at 12:1, but now I’m inspired to push the codec harder and revisit 18:1.

Shawn

Is there a Pre-Record function?

A combination of sensor design, high resolution, very high frame rates options, color science, powerful processing in camera, and Davinci post processing enables this special 'Blackmagic 3D-Pop'. It brings video images to a new level, enhancing our ways of seeing.

"Following on from our first look at the exciting new URSA Cine 12K. We sit down to test its performance, discuss the sensor design, detail, dynamic range, data rates and more." (Carl Yates, ProAV TV, UK)

"Following on from our first look at the exciting new URSA Cine 12K. We sit down to test its performance, discuss the sensor design, detail, dynamic range, data rates and more." (Carl Yates, ProAV TV, UK)

Yeah ProAV TV has been a wonderful job with these videos. I watched this one last night before going to sleep.

But they are not the only ones who have spoken about the weight. It is definitely a beefy camera.

That ProAV TV review is deserving of an Emmy or whatever the UK has an equivalent to an Emmy. Best short review I’ve seen including fair comparisons to some other cameras from BMD and other manufacturers.

It’s not a perfect review but so close. Only suggestion is the model should be playing with my energetic puppy!

Maybe I should figure out a way to make this camera purchase happen. It is so well engineered. It may not be considered a modern lightweight camera but the heft and use of metal is all about heat dissipation and durability. Perhaps a decade from now there will be a graphene version, but in a decade I may not be doing this anyway. I hope the enthusiasm of ProAV TV inspires some high-end productions to give it a go.

Yeah, the ProAV TV review footage definitely makes me wish I could rent this camera for the short film I'll be shooting next weekend. But I'll simply use my UMPG2 because it is in hand. But I really would love to use this camera. However, it will be a fully handheld short from what the director is asking from me. So, not too sure how my back would feel at the end of that full day. Haha. Still the images would be worth it with the new 12K VistaVision sensor and that incredible dynamic range.

... So, not too sure how my back would feel at the end of that full day. Haha...

You probably could make it through the day with the adrenaline flowing, but at the end of the day and the next day it’s probably going to hurt. Be sure to keep up the electrolytes (just water isn’t enough). At my age just lugging equipment is an effort even though I’m operating on a tripod that struggles with the load. But it’s worth it.

I wish there was less noise in the image but it seems to clean up really well.
Gah, I wish there was a smaller version. I just can’t justify the cost and size right now.

I appreciated the review video above showed the comparison of the Cine 12K sensor and the Pyxis at 3200 ISO. With noise reduction applied in post, the footage from the 12K looked better.

With both my cameras I apply noise reduction after everything else is complete. Yes, it’s an additional time-consuming step in videos that exceed two hours, but it is nothing really in my workflow.

I know I’m not typical because I’m not under any time constraints. It’s done when I say it’s done. I feel the same after an evening shoot. The next day it takes me most of the day to copy my uncompressed or lightly compressed recordings to the RAID5. Sure it would be a lot quicker if I recorded highly compressed files, but I’m striving for a quality deliverable. As Mick Jagger sings, “time is on my side.”

I see sharpening outlines on the C12K in the 600% 4K for 4K comparison, just before Carl made the same comment.

I actually don't mind some mild sharpening under the right circumstances but to be perfectly fair when you're trying to make a point about superior resolution, the Pyxis did not look sharpened, the C12K did.

Cine 12k is on another level, does not even try to compete with ALEXA, it has its own unique look that Alexa cannot even touch, even if it wanted to, something with the highlights and deep blacks is just something totally different...I am following ...

One thing, I wish they really changed is the name, bit like Toyota how it rebranded Lexus, different league all together.

Of course, it's use in the field and overall reliability, this is something that time Cine 12k will need to earn, time will tell, but footage is just insane.

I see sharpening outlines on the C12K in the 600% 4K for 4K comparison, just before Carl made the same comment.

I actually don't mind some mild sharpening under the right circumstances...

Totally agree, using a 600% view in editing to judge an image is simply stupid. That may be harsh, but you’re not doing anything valid with that degree of pixel peeking. 200% okay for a peek, but sitting back and viewing the image you deliver is best. You’ll know when it looks right: when it feels right, when it makes a good (emotional) impression.

I keep my sharpening very mild to non-existent. DaVinci Resolve makes it too easy to over-sharpen, but nothing looks worse than being able to see that you’ve applied sharpening.

When it comes to deliverables, demonstrating superior ‘resolution’ is not the goal; the goal is keeping your visual cortex happy and that’s creating a seamless boundary that your brain knows how to discern as ‘reality.’

Cine 12k is on another level, does not even try to compete with ALEXA, it has its own unique look that Alexa cannot even touch… One thing, I wish they really changed is the name.. different league all together.

Of course, it's use in the field and overall reliability, this is something that time Cine 12k will need to earn, time will tell, but footage is just insane.

Interesting observation, Darko. I noticed what you did in that post and I think it’s valid and may point to a new direction. Just in the last day or so, I’ve also stopped with my normal anal adherence to full and accurate camera names.

This transition was aided by the camera name Pyxis. No longer long and cumbersome names like the Pocket Cinema Camera 6K Pro Gen X. Just Pyxis, that says it all.

Well I used to say URSA Cine 12K, but now I find that URSA has baggage. It began with the original URSA to describe that ‘bear’ of a camera that weighed 16.5 pounds (even though it was lighter than the popular ARRI I believe), it was clearly a beast compared to the original svelte Pocket and the odd original 2.5K crushed box camera.

So there it is, hiding in plain sight as the expression goes. The new brand for the new high resolution cameras is Cine (or should it be Ciné?). URSA doesn’t need to be there with its old connotations. Give it up BMD, time to move on with a brand that’s like a coup with its elegant conceptual revolution. Yes, yes, we know the Venice is a terrific brand for a great product. But Cine is our new brand for these new cameras Cine 12K, Cine 17K, (and Cine Immersive?). And I vote for inclusion of the accent, Ciné.

Start registering your Ciné trademarks boys and girls, before it’s hijacked by Nikon Red. You have been warned.

The highlight recovery against the Sony Venice 2 was something crazy. I know HR doesn't ALWAYS work the way you want it to, but in certain cases it is VERY useful.

I REALLY wish someone would do a side by side comparison between the Ursa Mini 12k and the Cine 12k. I know that the Cine 12k is a much more refined version of the same sensor type, but I want to see how much milage the UMP12k still has.

I'm looking for another (larger, higher quality) BMD camera and I've narrowed it down to either the URSA Mini Pro G2 or the Ursa Mini 12k OLPF. I've been swamped this quarter (in a good way!) with work and I'm finding my single camera setup needs a step up.

As badly as I want an Cine 12k (which is now financially within my grasp!) I need to figure out budget stuff for next year/1st quarter. A used UMP will do the trick and keep my going for a while.

The highlight recovery against the Sony Venice 2 was something crazy. I know HR doesn't ALWAYS work…

I try it and for the times it works on a clip, use it. But I don’t turn it on for the project, just clips where it helps.

I've been swamped this quarter (in a good way!) with work and I'm finding my single camera setup needs a step up.

Once I did dual camera, I was hooked. Every shoot for me is dual camera now from two angles, view from the left and view from the right. The advantages are enormous and always ensures you use the best footage for each moment of your video. If I had a third camera, I’d make it work too but getting another operator would be best although adding a static centre view might work.

As badly as I want an Cine 12k (which is now financially within my grasp!) I need to figure out budget stuff...

Adam. what a blessing this is within your reach. I’d encourage you to go for it as I know you won’t regret it. The Ciné 12K is close to perfection for most use cases.

I was hung up on the paucity of affordable large format zooms but shooting 9K Super35 when using a zoom removes that hesitation. I’ll be doing my annual budget projections next month and I have many conflicting priorities to consider. Pyxis makes sense but… you know what I mean!

Does anyone know if you can access the lens data readout on the operator’s side flipout screen?

Yikes, this post refers to the right screen not the left screen:
Absolutely everything is there in the assistant screen subject to the lens supporting the standard protocols. Details would be in the manual.

The best thing about that is the assistant screen can be used as a follow focus including setting the focus range A/B. Like I said, the camera nears perfection. So flexible. If your lens has good witness marks, you will enjoy having the feature without the cost and clutter of a traditional follow focus or external motorized drives like I use.