Affordable Cine Zoom Lenses for Blackmagic Cameras

Thank you for that feedback and endorsement of the Tokina -1.6x expander. Sounds like I should consider that in the future after all.

Rick after a lot of research I am considering of going the way of a used Cabrio - they can be had for under the price of a new Tango and are slightly lighter and shorter. The only thing holding me back right now unfortunately is incompatibility with the Kippertie Revolva - the Cabrio's flange depth is too high it seems (haven't been able to measure it myself yet unfortunately).

Ouch! Take a look at the Tango as well for compatibility of it with the Kippertie. Since there isn’t a Kippertie to go from PL mount to L-mount camera, maybe Kippertie can modify their design to make sure it fits both Tango and Cabrio. Those are both very good and unique zoom lenses that would help sell more Revolvas! Can you get back to Kippertie on that?

We’re trying to build a Pyxis 12K rig made in heaven with a great zoom and integrated ND filters. Can’t have a few millimeters ruin this!

A Revolva L-PL was actually just released as a pre-order, its up on their website https://store.kippertie.com/product/revolva-l-pl/ - it has the same flange distance depth as their other Revolvas unfortunately. I have reached out to them about the possibility of making a PL lens mount Revolva (that would bolt directly onto the Pyxis), since third party mounts for the Pyxis exist (notably from C7) and Kippertie has made camera mounts for both RED and Freefly, but they didnt seem to keen on it, since it would be a Pyxis specific product that would not be applicable to other L-Mount cameras that their current adapter might appeal to.

Eyeballing the Tango it does seem to fit, but of course would need proper measurement. Just a bit worried about resale value of that lens if I should one day decide to part with it again. And I honestly prefer the look of the Cabrio from what I have seen of the Tango so far. Plus the weight difference might seem small, but might make all the difference.

Yes the Cabrio is a true Fujinon and I’m
confident it’s the better zoom lens compared to the copycat Tango. So don’t worry about the Kippertie. I’ve always liked the Cabrio so be happy!

Thanks for letting me know the Kippertie will work with the Tango as that’s the upper limit of my budget and I’m not shooting anything you’ll see in your local theatre.

The only thing holding me back right now unfortunately is incompatibility with the Kippertie Revolva - the Cabrio's flange depth is too high it seems (haven't been able to measure it myself yet unfortunately).

After finally getting around to measure it, it seems the Cabrio is indeed compatible with the Revolva, so I stand corrected!

¡Excelente!

Be sure and tell us what you think after you’ve had a chance to shoot with the Cabrio.

Does anyone have experience with the Laowa Ranger 16-30 full frame, perhaps also compared with the DZO catta ace 18-35? My plan is to use on the Pyxis 12K.

I already own the DZO catta ace 35-80, but I feel perhaps on the wide end loawa 16 would be helpful compared to the 18 on the catta. I don’t mind a color shift between the manufacturers.

BTW I had a used Ranger 75-180 which I returned. I found it very soft at certain points when wide open, compared to my Catta ace which which was not nearly as soft wide open. I liked that it went to 180 compared to the DZO’s 130.

These would be to complement my SLR Magic APO hyperprimes (25,32,50,85) which I’m curious to see how they perform with the Pyxis 12k I have on order.

… I already own the DZO catta ace 35-80, but I feel perhaps on the wide end loawa 16 would be helpful compared to the 18 on the catta...

I’d recommend staying with the Catta. It’s not just about possible colour variations mixing Catta with Ranger, it’s the character of the image and the convenience of consistent operation and gear placement.

These would be to complement my SLR Magic APO hyperprimes (25,32,50,85) which I’m curious to see how they perform with the Pyxis 12k I have on order.

Yes, please with ketchup on top! Since I have those original APO primes, I’m eager to hear what you think of them on the Pyxis. My favourite of those is the 32mm shooting 4K. I hope you can include tests at 12K and 8K and 9K windowed with as low a compression as your CFexpress cards can manage Q3 or Q1 at 24/30fps! That would be so good of you, Richard. Merci.

Rick I’ll try once I get the 12K. Thing is I have to ship my 85 and one other lens back to SLR for a floating issue when rack focusing. Have you seen that problem before? I should have shipped them the lenses already but there’s are some lingering and new projects showing up (then get postponed) so I can’t send the 85 in until I finish these projects. Not sure how long it willl take round trip but Hopefully they will return in time when the Pyxis arrives. Also I have to pay the the repairs and honestly it was like that from day one, it just don’t affect me since I wasn’t rack focusing on the sit down interviews I mostly shoot, and use other lenses for Broll.

Now hoping to shoot a feature with them and possibly fill in with some Arles. Any opinion of the SLR vs Arles?

Richard, I haven’t noticed a floating effect when changing focus but that sounds like some internal wear. When you mention you’ve always had some issues, then wear isn’t the problem and lens repair by a lens technician should correct the issue.

The SLR Magic APO set was developed over time and never fulfilled its original goal of including 18 and 135mm focal lengths. I only have the first generation of the 50mm lens; a second generation of the 50mm replaced it but I am not sure what changed. I rely heavily on the 32mm as my favourite lens of the set.

I appreciate that the lens design uses all spherical elements like old vintage designs to give a good bokeh for items that are out of focus further distant from the point of focus. There are no aspherical elements that occur in modern smaller designs which can contribute to onion ring bokeh.

On my first lens test shoot, I discovered that blurred areas significantly in front of the area of focus looked strangely broken. I was shooting through an iron rail fence focusing in the distance and the iron rails behaved oddly

The Arles are a stop faster lenses and would be considered a step up in image quality but I have not used them. Others here in the forum would have a more informed opinion. My impression is they are popular for a reason as they’re very good value for money.

The Arles do have a floating element or group for adjusting lens characteristics such as breathing I believe, but I don’t know how easy or effective that is.

Thanks for the great explanation.

Great explanation indeed Rick!

Just out of curiosity what do you mean by “strangely broken”

Great explanation indeed Rick!

Just out of curiosity what do you mean by “strangely broken”

Instead of a single vertical bar just in front of the camera looking blurry, it seemed to breakup into more than one vertical bar; looked different than you would expect. So I avoided shooting like that in the future. Just testing to see how it behaved and it failed.



Otherwise good bokeh. But the Arles bokeh likely is better with 16 blades forming the iris.

I'm going to have to put some camera packages together for a docuseries I'm gonna be working on soon. The director specifically wants Blackmagic Design cameras, which is great for me, haha.

But doc work is very uncertain in terms of what the day and shooting environment will be. We start shooting in July, which HOPEFULLY we'll have our hands on the new Pyxis 12k by then. If not, we'll probably stick with renting some UMP12k's or Cine 12k's. We'd like the highest quality possible, but need to stay lean.

But for lensing, I was thinking of using s35 zooms to remain faster and having a little better depth of field to contain the moment in. My person experience has only been with the Pictor Zooms and photo lens zooms. We will most likely be utilizing Easy Rigs as well, but any recommendations?

My recommendations, if you are on a lean budget, are the DZOfilm Tango 18-90mm T2.9 5x PL zoom with 31.5mm image circle (which doesn’t quite cover 9K 3:2 but good for the traditional cinema aspect ratios) and the Tokina Cinema ATX 25-75mm T2.9 3x PL zoom only because its 36mm image circle easily covers 9K 3:2.

You might also look at the Fujinon XK20-120mm T3.5 6x PL zoom 31.5mm image circle, if you need the extra reach.

There are higher quality zooms such as the venerable Fujinon ZK19-90mm Cabrio T2.9 at higher cost.

Having a zoom with modest telephoto and wide angle focal lengths in a single lens might be a necessity depending upon the documentary. But if the shooting requirements allow time to swap lenses, there are choices compatible with the look of the above wide-to-telephoto choices. If you will need longer reach, there is the DZOfilm Tango 65-280mm T2.9-T4 or the Tokina Cinema ATX 50-135mm T2.9. If you need to go wider, there’s the Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9 which can be very versatile for close interviews. These are all available in PL mount.

My recommendations, if you are on a lean budget, are the DZOfilm Tango 18-90mm T2.9 5x PL zoom with 31.5mm image circle (which doesn’t quite cover 9K 3:2 but good for the traditional cinema aspect ratios) and the Tokina Cinema ATX 25-75mm T2.9 3x PL zoom only because its 36mm image circle easily covers 9K 3:2.

You might also look at the Fujinon XK20-120mm T3.5 6x PL zoom 31.5mm image circle, if you need the extra reach.

There are higher quality zooms such as the venerable Fujinon ZK19-90mm Cabrio T2.9 at higher cost.

Having a zoom with modest telephoto and wide angle focal lengths in a single lens might be a necessity depending upon the documentary. But if the shooting requirements allow time to swap lenses, there are choices compatible with the look of the above wide-to-telephoto choices. If you will need longer reach, there is the DZOfilm Tango 65-280mm T2.9-T4 or the Tokina Cinema ATX 50-135mm T2.9. If you need to go wider, there’s the Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9 which can be very versatile for close interviews. These are all available in PL mount.

great advice, Rick! I know there was one cinematographer that utilizes a single zoom with the UMP12k for all his work... which is stunning.

I agree with everything in that video about that T3.5 lens, except one little point:
I wouldn’t call that lens “heavy” for what it can do. And it’s lighter than the T2.9 19-90mm Cabrio that is a step higher optical quality.

I should see if anyone compares these lenses to a DZOfilm Tango 18-90mm. The Fujinon 20-120mm is twice the cost of the Tango when the Tango goes on sale. And the 20-120mm 6x zoom is Fujinon’s budget class lens whereas the 19-90mm is very good. I haven’t seen the Fujinon 24-300mm but that’s almost 3 Kg and out of my price range.

And I want a wider focal length than a 24mm because the shorter focal lengths can be a creative asset as well as required in tight confines. The minimum focal length capability is something I’m going to have to decide on looking at these three lenses, 18, 19. and 20mm. Tango is till my frontrunner and the least costly.

When I shoot with my Tokina 11-20mm, I generally am in the 14-18mm range, and that’s shooting Super35 and mirrorless. Shooting 9K is very close to Super35 which favours the Tango at 18mm. I’d want to buy the Tango and pair it with the Tokina 11-20mm when needed, but obviously I need to do the lens comparisons in a detailed test as the pairing may be fine. And the Tokina 11-20mm is a good match to the Fujinon 20-120mm in terms of seamless focal lengths. I think my life just got more complicated. Realistically I can eliminate the 19-90mm Cabrio but I’m adding the 20-120mm, greater range is nice. When the 20-120mm was released, Fujinon took pains to explain that it’s an alternative zoom but doesn’t match the optical performance of the 19-90mm to give mere mortals a less costly alternative. The 20-120mm looked fine to me, but you folks have a better eye for detail than I.

Any guidance welcome! Tango 18-90mm T2.9 on sale (one kidney) or Fujinon 20-120mm T3.5 (at twice the kidneys).

I just noticed the image circle of the Fujinon 20-120mm T3.5 is 28.5mm according to one of the lens reviews on YouTube. Since I want a zoom lens for 9K windowed recording on the Pyxis 12K, Fujinon’s standard 31.5 image circle is better. B&H Photo describes the IC as 31.5mm. I think maybe B&H is using AI sometimes. Matt Allard confirms an image circle of 28.5mm (if you do the calculations using the physical dimensions he cites) and shows vignetting on some ARRI models. Matt actually preferred the 20-120mm over the 19-90mm for shoulder mounting.

This 20-120mm zoom will vignette at
9K 3:2,
9K 17:9,
9K 2.4:1,
9K 6:5, and
9K 16:9

https://www.newsshooter.com/2016/07/08/ ... 0mm-t2-95/

Rick I highly recommend using the CVP coverage tool https://cvp.com/tools/cameralens. While they haven't listed the Pyxis 12K yet, I simply selected the Ursa Cine 12K to verify coverage for various lenses.

Thanks! It’s good showing you a shaded grey image which is more graphic than the LensToolkit f8 app I use. I also build my own database that includes aspect ratios such as 2.39:1 that one can crop to in Resolve. The Fujinon 20-120mm Cabrio does cover a cropped 9K 2.39:1 image, but doesn’t cover any ‘native’ 9K aspect ratios selectable on camera for recording.

The DZOfilm Tango 18-90mm remains my recommendation for a single useful budget zoom on the Pyxis 12J LF shooting 9K Super35 but not 3:2. However given its cost, currently $8,599 USD, I don’t think I’ll be able to buy it at the same time I get the Pyxis 12K. I may need to resign myself to shooting with the 25mm, 32mm, 50mm, and 85mm SLR Magic APO primes for some time, perhaps another year.

The 50mm on Pyxis at 9K has a similar FOV as the 32mm on the BMPCC4K at 4K. Perhaps 32mm or 50mm to start a performance and then switch to 85mm for medium close shots when there’s an intermission. That could work well for music videos where the group may only use a small portion of the stage.

The Tokina 25-75mm is much less cost while on sale for $2,999, but I don’t think I’d be satisfied with its range in the long run. It can shoot 9K 3:2 though!

Why doesn’t money grow on trees, eh?