Pyxis 12K

Thanx for the detailed explanation, Rick. Yet, I wonder what the readout speed is for conventional 8k, 24 and 30fps. BMD hasn't specified these numbers anywhere that I've seen. The Pyxis 12k works with half the power that the Ursa cine gets. So, the data processor doesn't work as fast. Effective Readout speed may be limited by processing speed. The jello effect on my older BMPCC 6K is quite unpleasant.

edit: I just found these figures for the Ursa Cine:
8K, 16:9, 168, 8192 x 4608, Full Width, 5.81
8K, 17:9, 180, 8192 x 4320, Full Width: 5.44

https://ymcinema.com/2024/09/08/blackma ... k-cameras/
https://ymcinema.com/2025/04/05/blackma ... ne-12k-lf/


The Pixys 12k at half the input power will approx. double these r/o speeds.

Are you looking for this?

yup...got it...thanx

When I get the Pyxis 12K, I think I’ll be busy testing the alternative resolutions that are important to my work against each other to determine which readouts may not be acceptable. I’m fortunate for most of the theatrical and music videos there’s not much movement and no rapid movement of people except possibly the drummers; things do move a short distance very quickly when you’re playing some instruments.

When using zoom I’m forced by economics to shoot 9K, but for primes I’ll likely end up shooting 8K likely as I don’t have the infrastructure to manage 12K storage. I had my 24TB drive delivered today but managing 12K archives would eat that up in no time! I gave my major client a heads-up to prepare for 8K/9K next year.

If I was shooting more fashion shows or dance, it’s important to consider acceptable readout limitations and using HFR to minimize blur.

I’ve done a similar thing Rick, but focusing on rolling shutter

Based on that I’m thinking…

9k 2.4:1 (Super 35) - 11.6

8k/4k 16:9 - 11.6

8k/4k 17:9 - 10.9

8k/4k 2.4:1 - 8.6

Sub 12ms is really pretty great, but especially 2.4:1 9k when you get the increased dynamic range, and 2.4:1 8k/4k when you get ~8ms RS

Those look like they’ll be good. I need to think about how I’m going to test these options in a repeatable fashion. I do know some musicians… and I do know some young dancers who I’ll be recording in early July so I could ask if they’d be willing to help me.

Just read a post that someone talked to perhaps the main Pyxis engineer at Cine gear expo and apparently the rear usbc can power a monitor as well as the front USB c - great to know two monitors can be used at once.

Very nice. I’ve been searching on YouTube, CineD, and Newshooter but haven’t found any videos related to Pyxis 12K at Cine Gear Expo.

I think CineGear just started so it's going to take a bit of time for the content creators t film and edit stuff, but also things are probably getting rather disrupted by... recent events.

Check the news... it's going on in LA County, but I don't know whether or not it's affected Burbank and Hollywood.

Cine Gear ended yesterday, just in time!

I see a few reviews appearing already including LF prime/anamotphic lenses but nothing specifically about Cine 12K/17K and Pyxis 12K. And no new LF zoom lenses so far but some Super35.

Richard is this the post you are referring to? https://www.reddit.com/r/blackmagicdesign/comments/1l619ki/pyxis_12k_usbc_splitter/

Great news if true, but honestly I would prefer if they could get their own monitor working with the correct gamma first.. People have been waiting since March for a fix.

Seems like someone else over at Reddit confirmed with the Blackmagic reps at Cinegear that the whole June 1st ship date from B&H was bollocks and they are still confident about the July timeline they originally gave at NAB (which is good news with all the tariff chaos going on)

Ah, July. That’s been the most popular projected date. That will be an achievement given the possible delays caused by adjusting to the ever-changing US tariffs! I hope it’s true but there are 31 days in July.

Might be better to ship it after the fix for the Pyxis monitor is in place as those two products will be very important to many. But that’s a product management decision for BMD to make.

Personally, I don’t think they’ll delay a July shipment if the Pyxis is good to go and the monitor waits assuming it’s just a question of firmware. If it’s a hardware issue, let the camera wait.

The reason for this is that BMD is entering a new marketplace with the stunning Cine 12K/17K and Cine Immersive cameras drawing a lot of attention after many recent favourable remarks. For those who are singing its praises now and for those who will be drawn into Blackmagic’s ecosystems, first impressions of these new cameras are so important. The Pyxis 12K is definitely able to be a B camera for the Cine 12K most of the time perhaps only limited by frame rate and so must also be reliable and durable from the get-go. Now is the time to seize the opportunity for lasting success after 12 years of playing on the cinematic periphery.

“There is a tide in the affairs of men.
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
On such a full sea are we now afloat,
And we must take the current when it serves,
Or lose our ventures.” - Brutus in Julius Caesar by William Shakespeare

Cine Gear ended yesterday, just in time!

I see a few reviews appearing already including LF prime/anamotphic lenses but nothing specifically about Cine 12K/17K and Pyxis 12K. And no new LF zoom lenses so far but some Super35.

Shows how much I've been paying attention!

The reason for this is that BMD is entering a new marketplace with the stunning Cine 12K/17K and Cine Immersive cameras drawing a lot of attention after many recent favourable remarks. For those who are singing its praises now and for those who will be drawn into Blackmagic’s ecosystems, first impressions of these new cameras are so important. The Pyxis 12K is definitely able to be a B camera for the Cine 12K most of the time perhaps only limited by frame rate and so must also be reliable and durable from the get-go. Now is the time to seize the opportunity for lasting success after 12 years of playing on the cinematic periphery.

IMO for a lot of productions the Pyxis 12K will easily serve as an A camera for a lot of productions. It's quite a capable camera. It's a perfect B camera to team up with an UC 12K though.

This is a good year for indie film.

Agree, it takes time to build up the momentum, but I think you’re right and it will only get better next year. You’re in a better position to know than I, but releasing the camera in July should be time for acquisition budgets to adjust for lower costs in September and October which will start the snowball gathering gravitas.

Getting funding is the biggest challenge right now, but while the economy across the board is down, the demand for content is growing unabated, so it's a matter of finding the market and the investors.

Black Magic will not make a dent in the Alexa/Venice market, but that's irrelevant; it's the indies that will rule the future, and there the competition is the hybrids, Red, Kinefinity, and the upcoming Eterna, none of which can match either 12K camera in terms of features, production readiness, nor price/performance.

The catch is that most indie filmmakers will find a way to make even the 12K look mediocre with their lack of talent, then blame the camera for their lack of talent in typical influencer style, which won't do wonders for BMD's marketing -- that hurt Red for a while also, for the same reason.

However, in the hands of those who know what they're doing and know how to light and frame shots, the 12Ks are going to be extremely liberating, and for those who know both lighting and VFX, it's going to be bind-moggling.

Black Magic has always shaken the industry up, but I don't think anyone is ready for this one. Except the few who are jumping at the 12Ks right, whether the Ursa Cine or the Pyxis.

Until then we should keep complaining about the insane data rates of 12K footage and then smack the entire industry upside the head with indie films that make the Marvel drivel look like amateur hour, which given how thoroughly the Marvel film directors screw up the VFX crews' work won't actually be all that hard.

Getting funding is the biggest challenge right now, but while the economy across the board is down, the demand for content is growing unabated, so it's a matter of finding the market and the investors.

Black Magic will not make a dent in the Alexa/Venice market, but that's irrelevant; it's the indies that will rule the future, and there the competition is the hybrids, Red, Kinefinity, and the upcoming Eterna, none of which can match either 12K camera in terms of features, production readiness, nor price/performance.

The catch is that most indie filmmakers will find a way to make even the 12K look mediocre with their lack of talent, then blame the camera for their lack of talent in typical influencer style, which won't do wonders for BMD's marketing -- that hurt Red for a while also, for the same reason.

However, in the hands of those who know what they're doing and know how to light and frame shots, the 12Ks are going to be extremely liberating, and for those who know both lighting and VFX, it's going to be bind-moggling.

Black Magic has always shaken the industry up, but I don't think anyone is ready for this one. Except the few who are jumping at the 12Ks right, whether the Ursa Cine or the Pyxis.

Until then we should keep complaining about the insane data rates of 12K footage and then smack the entire industry upside the head with indie films that make the Marvel drivel look like amateur hour, which given how thoroughly the Marvel film directors screw up the VFX crews' work won't actually be all that hard.

I mean, I've seen a lot of terribly shot footage from the Arri Alexa and numerous Red cameras. It does come down to the skill of the people behind the camera. And, well even the best camera in the world won't fix bad artistry.

So will we some pretty bad footage shot on the 12K? More than likely. However, we'll also see a ton of amazing footage. It all comes down to the talent behind the camera.

I've been working for the past week plus on a corporate job on the Canon C200s. And, well, I long for my URSA Cine 12K. Or any BMD camera. I have so many complaints about the Canon cameras. But more than anything I've been appreciative of the features Blackmagic put into their cameras.

Blackmagic is poised to make a dent into the indie cinema world for sure. Yet, I'm very curious where they take things for broadcast and corporate with this sensor technology. After all Blackmagic makes a ton of great broadcast gear to support their cameras.

IBC 2025 should be very interesting. And, I'm curious if they could be the first ones to do a proper digital IMAX sensor in the form of an URSA Cine 24K. That may be a NAB 2026 reveal.

That is such an enormous challenge with IMAX corporate controlling IMAX cameras and IMAX theatres.

I’d suggest, if IMAX isn’t talking to BMD about a partnership, BMD might try an end run and find investors to compete with IMAX rather than cooperate with IMAX. Grant Petty eventually will have all the cards here and IMAX isn’t seeing it. The biggest card isn’t the theatres, it’s the creators who will much appreciate shooting with the Cine 17K or Cine 24K and not have to stand in a queue waiting for an access slot.

Always a chance my concerns are misguided and both IMAX and BMD have a binding non-disclosure agreement… in my dreams!

One of the problems of modern-day YouTube algorithms is that it's hard to find reviews and explanations of camera gear/lenses without influencers and trendy people appearing as top hits. (maybe it is just my settings??) And then I'm only given a dozen options and then it spits out other videos I may like, when I KNOW there are more YT videos on the subject out there.

The Pyxis 12k will have a barrage of videos posts from everyone. Find your trusted voices/sources and stick to them, IMO. I remember when a group did a review on a demo set of the Atlas Mercury's and they nearly TANKED the pre-orders of that line for a hot minute. Eventually others came out with raving performance and it stabilized the angst.

But be prepared, someone will get a bad unit and raise hell about it and that will keep people at bay. Others will rejoice over the design and quality and will enjoy it for years to come.

I’ve been looking for the fireside chat interviews CineD liked to do with BMD, not so interested in specs that the webpages can tell us but what the execs have to say about the cameras.

PS
I hate the way YouTube feeds you everything you don’t want to see; I think their algorithm rewards their most popular contributors but not their most erudite and perspicacious commentators.

I mean, I've seen a lot of terribly shot footage from the Arri Alexa and numerous Red cameras. It does come down to the skill of the people behind the camera. And, well even the best camera in the world won't fix bad artistry.

So will we some pretty bad footage shot on the 12K? More than likely. However, we'll also see a ton of amazing footage. It all comes down to the talent behind the camera.

That's the inevitable side effect of BMD's cameras being so affordable as well as so capable; the 12Ks are inexpensive enough that there will definitely be people buying them for the 12K moniker, then saying, "my footage is amazing because it was shot on a 12K camera." Pretty much exactly the same thing happened to Red, and it lead to Red cameras getting a reputation for mediocrity because of how many clueless bozos mistook the Red badge for a Talent Button (tm).

I've been working for the past week plus on a corporate job on the Canon C200s. And, well, I long for my URSA Cine 12K. Or any BMD camera. I have so many complaints about the Canon cameras. But more than anything I've been appreciative of the features Blackmagic put into their cameras.

My condolences. But look at the bright side: you're not a software engineer at AT&T where they charge you for the crappy office coffee.

Blackmagic is poised to make a dent into the indie cinema world for sure. Yet, I'm very curious where they take things for broadcast and corporate with this sensor technology. After all Blackmagic makes a ton of great broadcast gear to support their cameras.

The fact that BMD built a streaming encoder into the UC 12K seems like it's a bit of a hint. I think we're going to see the RGBW sensor in studio cameras, even if the resolution is lower. The in-sensor scaling could actually enable using exactly the same sensor instead of a different cut for a lower-spec camera. And potentially go the extra step of dynamically windowing the sensor.

IBC 2025 should be very interesting. And, I'm curious if they could be the first ones to do a proper digital IMAX sensor in the form of an URSA Cine 24K. That may be a NAB 2026 reveal.

The 17K is specifically targeted to IMAX filmmakers. I think the question is how many filmmakers get on board that one; it's priced high enough to keep it out of the indie market, but no so far out of reach that it's not viable. It's priced right in the mid-level rental market though; that market doesn't actually care that much about resolution, but it's also happily able to absorb the cost of media for storing terabytes of dailies daily.

The 17K EXR files however...

Japan uses 8K broadcast transmissions now and for the 2020 Olympics. So may be very feasible to use BMD’s Cine 12K LF sensor with 8K capture.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/12/01/ ... -in-japan/

One of Japan's requirements was 120fps, which while it rules out the Pyxis but definitely includes the UC 12K. What are the odds that BMD did that by accident?

You’re right, I was forgetting that HFR for sports. I’m thinking of going to 60 fps for the 9K resolution of the Pyxis. Here are the specs:

9K (3:2 Super 35) up to 50 fps
9K (16:9 Super 35) up to 65 fps
9K (17:9 Super 35) up to 65 fps
9K (2.4:1 Super 35) up to 80 fps
9K (6:5 Super 35) up to 50 fps

Most of the time I’d be recording 9K 17:9 or 16:9 with the DXOfilm Tango 18-90mm so 60 fps is good. Higher capture resolution, higher frame rate, higher dynamic range. Still delivering 4K HDR PQ video. So I need to test to see if there’s a visible improvement to warrant the increase in media storage.

Based on my admittedly limited experience with the original 12K, I'm guessing not, compared to 8K.

Barring unforeseen delays though, I should be getting my 12K next week, so I'll be able try some of this out for myself soon with it.

And I'll finally be able to capture what my new lenses project, rather than cropping out half of the image.

I’m just going to clarify true IMAX: 1570 IMAX. Meaning a sensor that is equal in size to 15-Perf 70mm Film.

The UC17K is partially there, but it’s equivalent to 5-Perf 65mm film. So for the true IMAX sensor they have to match the 1570 standard. And, so far no digital sensor has come to match that sensor size.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah -- an InfiniBudget Camera

Ah -- an InfiniBudget Camera

LOL! Sure.

I mean, I watched Sinners and the IMAX footage looked incredible. The 5-Perf 65 film footage looked great as well, but the IMAX shots really popped for me. Part of that may because of the difference in lenses. I think that the 2.76:1 anamorphic footage had more contrast compared to the spherical IMAX footage. Both looked great, but it was interesting.

I think Blackmagic is in a great position with the 17K for 5-Perf 65 replication. They nailed it. And, any of the same lenses can be used. However, 15-Perf 70mm for IMAX is the next hurdle. And, Arri only has ever managed to get to 5-Perf 65 with their digital efforts.

What budget will this camera be? I'm sure it will be a 40K-50K camera. And, the lenses will be just as expensive. But if this brings more big budget filmmakers the opportunity to shoot in that IMAX size then why not make it happen? I'm sure IMAX would be all for more films being done in their format.

I haven't had a chance to see Sinners yet, so I can't comment on that but hopefully I will soon.

$40-50K seems unlikely to me; a camera like that would have a pretty small market, so I have a feeling that it will be more like the Alexa 65 (not the Alexa Mini LF). There were only around a dozen of those worldwide, and they were never available for sale anywhere, only rental.

It would be interesting to try out a 17K with Hasselblad lenses I have to admit, but I'm really looking forward to the 12K LF that's supposed to be arriving next week

[… I'm sure IMAX would be all for more films being done in their format.

I’m not at all sure IMAX wants to give an upstart with their own cameras access to their distribution channel for presenting in IMAX theatres.

Would be nice to hear from someone who has made an IMAX film for theatrical release. If you are not renting your cameras from ARRI or IMAX, you may not gain access to the IMAX theatres.

I’m not at all sure IMAX wants to give an upstart with their own cameras access to their distribution channel for presenting in IMAX theatres.

I think IMAX will be amenable, actually. This is from the IMAX web site:

PRE-PRODUCTION
Before production, filmmakers choose IMAX film or IMAX-certified digital cameras, ensuring sharper, brighter, higher-resolution content.

I don't think that IMAX makes any digital cameras. I'm guessing that the Ursa Cine 17K will be able to get IMAX certification, making it a direct competitor to the Panvision Millenium DXL line.

Would be nice to hear from someone who has made an IMAX film for theatrical release. If you are not renting your cameras from ARRI or IMAX, you may not gain access to the IMAX theatres.

It sounds more like the Netflix approach... your kit has to be certified, but IMAX doesn't rent the digital cameras.

I think that makes sense though; democratizing IMAX production leads to more IMAX presentations, and therefore more ticket sales for IMAX theaters and the IMAX corporation.

Based on the fact that even the Ursa Cine 12K exceeds the performance and resolution of the IMAX certified Panavision Millenium DXL and Arri Alexa 65 though, that could fit the bill also...

We all knew that the 12K was going to make a splash when BMD unveiled the Super35 model a few years ago, but given how big a step it's been from that to the UC and Pyxis 12K, I think we all underestimated the size of the splash.

The meme “we have IMAX at home” or something should be a thing.
I understand the movie theatre experience is “the only way to experience IMAX”, but I wonder what technology will do with allowing home theaters to revolutionize into something that is large format friendly.

I say that as someone who adopted an early 5.1 surround sound setup in my basement, like 30 years ago.

You may be right, Rakesh. The Cine 17K was suggested to IMAX, and they well may be looking at it and waiting for shipments, but they didn’t reply to my message which gives me pause that they’re only looking at Alexa 65.

Adam, although I think Apple Vision Pro might leave me nauseous for days and possibly schizophrenic and delusional as it scrambles my cerebral wiring, Vision Pro might actually be a contender given it can track your eye movements and theoretically could reveal a very large field of view. It’s 8K in BMD’s approach with the Cine Immersive, but there are possible ways of treating the user experience.

You could actually feed it 17K data, but only display 8K when the eyes look straight ahead. When the eyes turn left or right or up or down, new data could emerge on the 8K display gradually moving your visual window around a much larger world view. That could mimic a current IMAX screen and might even go one step further than IMAX in the experience. It might take a few million dollars to research the feasibility of it, but I think we could put a research team together quickly amongst our forum members.

Like I said in my previous post, if IMAX doesn’t want us to play with them, well we can just build our own park and win.

IMAX to their credit is working in the real world effectively. The concept and execution are straightforward. BMD could work in the virtual world with Apple. Apple likes to be a disruptor too.

You may be right, Rakesh. The Cine 17K was suggested to IMAX, and they we’ll be looking at it and waiting for shipments, but they didn’t reply to my message which gives me pause that they’re only looking at Alexa 65.

The Sony Venice and Panavision Millennium DXL are also IMAX certified, so their certification folks are definitely looking at other cameras.

Thanks, I wasn’t aware of that.

well, hopefully July still arrives in a couple weeks, so I'm looking forward to the potential that the Pyxis 12k will arrive, haha.

I'm going all out: Mid49 Cage/Battery solution, Kippertie L/PL Adapter NDs, etc

what I "need" is a decent Full Frame PL zoom so I can ditch the photo zooms I still utilize for small docs.

I assume you want a parfocal zoom that will have a constant aperture and give good results on that 12K sensor. Would be a nice find if it also had a good range so a single zoom could be used in situations where changing zooms normally is not feasible. Do you have a limit to the cost?

A while back I decided for any zoom I could afford (under $10K) that meets those criteria, I’m limited to a 9K Super35 zoom. A used Fujinon Cabrio 19-90mm, a new DZOfilm Tango 18-90mm or Tokina 25-75mm where I would use my existing 11-20mm to go wider (I’d still use the 11-20mm even if I bought the Tango or Cabrio).

Venus Optics Laowa Ranger Lite 28-75mm could work for me at full-frame as a single zoom. It might be wide enough, but I’d feel it wasn’t long enough. Certainly affordable.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1797196-REG

The three lens set would be everything you might need and under $10K:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1852572-REG

Rick I picked up a great condition used DZO Catta ace 35-80 and there's one used at B&H right now for under $2K. AT the same time I had the Ranger 75-180, but returned it as I found it was soft wide open, while the Catta was sharper wide open. Obviously I was comparing a different zoom range, so I can't say how the DZO 28-75 would compare.

Meanwhile I literally haven't used that 35-80 once on a job since buying it! Seems I've just been relying on my SLR APO primes (the 85 and 50) combined with Tokina 11-20. I use that 11-20 so often, even though there is a lot of distortion. Unfortunately I will have to retire that lens once the Pyxis arrives, since it is still version and the electronic iris won't work. I did just buy the Loawa 14mm Zero distortion as sort of a replacement, but it's just sitting here waiting for the Pyxis.

In the future I might consider the Ranger 16-30, but I'd love it if Tokina came out with a full frame wide zoom.

Richard, thanks for that feedback. An ideal full-frame all-purpose lens for me would be 20-120mm T2.9 (6x zoom) or 24-120mm (5x zoom) PL mount.

There’s the Nikon NIKKOR 24-120mm full-frame and cheap Z mount and it’s not a cine lens.

There’s the Fujinon Cabrio XK20-120mm T3.5 but it’s only Super35 and $12,900.

Lest we forget there’s the one-size fits all concept of the Venus Optics OOOM 25-100mm Super35 with 1.4x expander and 1.33x anamorphic adapter!

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1633575-REG

I wonder if next year manufacturers will pay more attention to these ideal ranges in full-frame zooms. Tokina as you suggest might be a very good choice. Just upscale their Super35 25-75mm to 24-120mm full-frame. That’s all. Probably they’ll start designing that tomorrow!