BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

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Another Perspective Pictures

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BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostMon Sep 16, 2019 11:31 am

I have received some informations from the IBC 2019 regarding the fact that the new Video Assist will be able to record a BRAW file using the 5.7K RAW signal coming from the Panasonic EVA 1.
Apparently it's also confirmed by Panasonic but I can't find any official information about it.
Can anybody confirm it or deny it?
Thank you very much!

Anthony
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostMon Sep 16, 2019 8:22 pm

the reports coming from BMD at IBC indicates this is the case, but the new Video Assist 12G has not been released yet, so you will have to wait and see how this pans out.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Sep 17, 2019 7:18 am

Thank you Denny.
My info are coming from the IBC too, so the reliability is not 100%.
Hopefully, if everybody understood the same, it's probably what they actually meant :D
It would be smashing to finally have a usable RAW for the EVA recording the whole sensor.
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Sep 17, 2019 3:46 pm

Blackmagic had a demo if the EVA1 setup with the new VA12G recording BRaw from the camera. So just sit tight and see what gets released. ;)
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Sep 17, 2019 4:57 pm

Another Perspective Pictures wrote:Thank you Denny.
My info are coming from the IBC too, so the reliability is not 100%.
Hopefully, if everybody understood the same, it's probably what they actually meant :D
It would be smashing to finally have a usable RAW for the EVA recording the whole sensor.


Or have a look at the official website:
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... ideoassist

The quality of RAW and the speed of video!
Blackmagic RAW is a revolutionary new format designed to capture and preserve the quality of the sensor data from cameras. Video Assist supports Blackmagic RAW recording from popular cameras such as Panasonic EVA1 and Canon C300 MK II. This eliminates the problems with popular camera formats such as H.264, which are highly compressed resulting in noise and processing artifacts. Blackmagic RAW eliminates this problem and gives you stunning images with incredible detail and color throughout the production pipeline from camera to edit, color and mastering. It also saves camera settings as metadata so you can set ISO, white balance and exposure, then override them later while editing, all without any loss of quality! Only Blackmagic RAW gives you the highest quality, smallest files and fastest performance!
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Sep 17, 2019 5:29 pm

This is the take from Marketing Robert. However, how much do you trust BMD Marketing speak.... :roll:
Remember the VA changing the menu options on the Micro Camera Marketing blurb that created al lot of confusion?
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Sep 17, 2019 11:37 pm

Denny Smith wrote:This is the take from Marketing Robert. However, how much do you trust BMD Marketing speak.... :roll:
Remember the VA changing the menu options on the Micro Camera Marketing blurb that created al lot of confusion?


I have a feeling that it already works
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostWed Sep 18, 2019 2:30 am

Another Perspective Pictures wrote:Thank you Denny.
My info are coming from the IBC too, so the reliability is not 100%.
Hopefully, if everybody understood the same, it's probably what they actually meant :D
It would be smashing to finally have a usable RAW for the EVA recording the whole sensor.

BMD literally have a video posted about this, and the people at bmd told you this at IBC lol how’s the info not reliable
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostWed Sep 18, 2019 4:40 am

That was my point also ;)
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostSat Sep 21, 2019 10:19 am

Just to be more specific, I'm not talking about supporting the Eva1 in general. Obviously I've seen everything is online and the site (where they always talk about 4K, am I wrong?) is where I started.
I'm an talking specifically about the 5.7k output, because as you probably know the Eva outputs also 4K and 2K. I will check the video you shared and see if it confirms out specifically.
Thank you everybody for tea asking part to the conversation!
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostSat Sep 21, 2019 10:37 am

Checked the shared video and well... that's quite explicit. :D
The problem with this kind of information is that they could be easily misunderstood. Luckily at this point this is not the case, unless BMD marketing is blatantly lying 8-) :lol:
Thank you again everybody. (And thanks BMD)
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostMon Jan 20, 2020 3:26 pm

I can confirm that it doesn't work as advertised. I'm running the latest firmware on the 7". The raw signal from the EVA1 is not recognized by the VA and the BRAW recording option is greyed out in the menu.

I'm sure a future firmware update will address this issue, but I don't like Black Magic putting out false information like this. The product page still reads:
"Video Assist supports Blackmagic RAW recording from popular cameras such as Panasonic EVA1 and Canon C300 MK II."
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BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 6:49 am

Iskandar wrote:I can confirm that it doesn't work as advertised. I'm running the latest firmware on the 7". The raw signal from the EVA1 is not recognized by the VA and the BRAW recording option is greyed out in the menu.

I'm sure a future firmware update will address this issue, but I don't like Black Magic putting out false information like this. The product page still reads:
"Video Assist supports Blackmagic RAW recording from popular cameras such as Panasonic EVA1 and Canon C300 MK II."


May be Eva1 need a firmware update?
Braw is half debayered by camera half debayered by computer. May be Eva1 default send it’s generic raw not correct signal for braw.
Advertise is not false, it’s only about a future feature developed but actually probably not clean and ready for users.


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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 11:13 am

Thanks for your response Carlo.

However, I'm pretty sure the EVA1 doesn't need an upgrade. Panasonic's EVA1 team members are quite active and transparant about it in the Facebook group.

In any case, I don't agree with your opinion that it's not false advertising. A company shouldn't advertise with product features they don't actually ship, unless they make it very obvious that it requires a future update.

In about every video made during IBC, Blackmagic's team speaks about BRAW for EVA1 and C300 MKII as a current product feature; not as something to be added in the unknown future. Over here for example:


For many people owning these cameras, the BRAW support was what convinced them to order the VA in the first place.

P.s. Here's a comment I just found on Cinema5d while writing this reply. Hate to admit he was right.
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Screen Shot 2020-01-21 at 12.07.59.png
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 11:30 am

Iskandar wrote:Thanks for your response Carlo.

However, I'm pretty sure the EVA1 doesn't need an upgrade. Panasonic's EVA1 team members are quite active and transparant about it in the Facebook group.

In any case, I don't agree with your opinion that it's not false advertising. A company shouldn't advertise with product features they don't actually ship, unless they make it very obvious that it requires a future update.

In about every video made during IBC, Blackmagic's team speaks about BRAW for EVA1 and C300 MKII as a current product feature; not as something to be added in the unknown future. Over here for example:


For many people owning these cameras, the BRAW support was what convinced them to order the VA in the first place.

P.s. Here's a comment I just found on Cinema5d while writing this reply. Hate to admit he was right.


Do you think is Bmd Only?
my experience with first Alexa was this :
i connect xlr, i not see signal, i check menu... and no audio menu. Arri answer that they will enable it later
i want to record full sensor signal, Arri tell me that at that time i can record a FHD, later disable downscaling... but they are Arri, they can...
My experience with RedOne? Or do you prefer with Thompson VIper?
just to tell that bmd is not the unique that talk about feature that will add in future. Also first production camera was advised for raw recording, but for months after releasing i could record prores only.

BMD not lie, before to buy a tool i ever check manual, be cause often tools are released before their developing are finished or advertising could have wrong datas.

i understand that you bought exactly for that feature, and is an irritating not found it, but is signed in the manual...
Screenshot 2020-01-21 at 12.29.32.png
Screenshot 2020-01-21 at 12.29.32.png (47.17 KiB) Viewed 1157 times


ps. i learn to read manuals from bad surprice founded with many tools from many brand, from video to computer and more :oops:
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 11:43 am

Another example the new Canon XF705 camera was announced in late 2018, only available in small amounts in early 2019 and the last firmware update is dated March 2019. They announced several features like h.264 codecs in an future firmware release, but non has been out so far. So until now you are stuck with their h.265 codec version which still got no support in Premiere Pro...
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 12:25 pm

But I have to say the information that BRAW isn't enabled yet, is quite hidden.

On the product page everything hints and advertises that BRAW is already active, only in the specs it lists:

Supported Codecs
ProRes 422 HQ, ProRes 422, ProRes 422 LT, DNxHD 220x, DNxHD 145, DNxHD 45, DNxHD 220x MXF, DNxHD 145 MXF, DNxHD 45 MXF, DNxHR HQX MXF, DNxHR HQX, DNxHR SQ, DNxHR LB, DNxHR SQ MXF, DNxHR LB MXF.


And in the user manual it says that BRAW will be enabled later.
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 1:21 pm

Always good to read the manual and certainly the Specifications on the product webpages. It’s true the ad copy can be infuriating at times with their forward thinking language about items not yet realized or implemented or even technically feasible or practically speaking very unlikely.

Every URSA purchase was made with the intent to upgrade the ‘turret sensor’ with new sensors and/or new mounts. Caused a bag of hurt when that never happened. And that was a future intention that reading the manual or spec page couldn’t protect you from. Every time the ad copy claims any feature that isn’t available it should in good conscience be written in a way that makes it clear that it is planned but not implemented today.

BMD is not alone in this practice and it is commendable that they often add features that were never described or promised. Also commendable how long they support their cameras with updates unlike some players that quickly drop updates as they release products that replace earlier products. Doesn’t change the reality that their ad copy policy needs to be rethought.
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 2:18 pm

I agree, Rick.

The fact that a company also does a lot of good stuff, doesn't give them a free pass to sell hot air. I understand that Blackmagic isn't the only company that does these things, but that doesn't mean we should accept this kind of practice.
Also you can't blame a customer for trusting the claims made on the official product page. After reading this (screenshot below) there shouldn't be a reason for anyone to doubt.
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 2:41 pm

we all right that BMD should write "VA12 will support raw recording in the near future"
but is against the rules of adv (sigh).
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 7:20 pm

carlomacchiavello wrote:we all right that BMD should write "VA12 will support raw recording in the near future"
but is against the rules of adv (sigh).

Actually the opposite is true.
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostWed Jan 22, 2020 6:55 pm

That said, like most future updates, it will come — sometime sooner or later...
The Pocket 4K had BRaw added after the camera shipped, and the original Pocket needed an update after release to record Raw. Al, came in time, so be patient. Yes BMD should have made it clear, this was not upon initial release.
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostThu Jan 23, 2020 7:57 am

Software update 3.0.2 was just released. Unfortunately no BRAW.
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BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostThu Jan 23, 2020 5:24 pm

If BRAW is added to the BMVA12G7/5 for the URSA Mini 4.6K, it will be a big deal like firmware release 4.0! Suddenly sales of the BMVA12G7/5 will spike. Belief in that happening at NAB2020 (or IBC2020) is part of the rationale in my purchase of the BMVA12G7!

It has struck me strange that BMD is bringing this BRAW feature to select cameras from other manufacturers. Anytime is a good time to add one more firmware update to the URSA Mini 4.6K as required to permit the BMVF12Gx to save BRAW from the URSA Mini 4.6K 12G SDI feed.
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostThu Jan 23, 2020 6:53 pm

Does BMD need permission to profile sensors from other manufacturers?

Is this something that BMD can do on their own?


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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostThu Jan 23, 2020 7:38 pm

Might be less expensive for them to get the cooperation of a vendor than buy a new camera. It can only help promote the other vendors’ cameras.

BMD has profiled the URSA Mini 4.6K sensor as I believe it was Stuart Ashton who confirmed that.
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostFri Jan 24, 2020 9:02 am

Iskandar wrote:Software update 3.0.2 was just released. Unfortunately no BRAW.


This update just adds BMD system support for the new VAs, and is the first step to set them up to add additional upFW updates with added features.

A EVA1 can output a “Raw” signal via its SDI output, the UM4.6 can not, so I would not expect to see BRaw added to support the Ursa Mini 4.6.
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostFri Jan 24, 2020 3:57 pm

Denny Smith wrote:
Iskandar wrote:A EVA1 can output a “Raw” signal via its SDI output, the UM4.6 can not, so I would not expect to see BRaw added to support the Ursa Mini 4.6.
Cheers


This is easy to find out. Has anyone used an atomos inferno or Odessy with the UM4.6? If yes then we know if it outputs sdi raw.

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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostFri Jan 24, 2020 5:02 pm

Those products don't work with the G2, does it ouput raw? The Odyssey doesn't work with any BM camera because it's not worth their time to develop it. Raw over SDI was enabled for the OG Ursa mini in Camera Update 4.8.

Raw over SDI isn't some great mystery, it's serialized data on coax. You need a decoder on the other end that can unpack what the encoder is laying down, then de-bayer it if you want a picture. Here's a screenshot from BM's Studio camera manual where they describe how raw data is packed on an SDI stream.

Good Luck

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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostFri Jan 24, 2020 5:20 pm

Thanks, Howard. I don’t think BMD would have profiled the URSA Mini 4.6K sensor already if they weren’t thinking of supporting their own original Mini 4.6K.
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostFri Jan 24, 2020 10:21 pm

ricardo marty wrote:
Denny Smith wrote:
Iskandar wrote:A EVA1 can output a “Raw” signal via its SDI output, the UM4.6 can not, so I would not expect to see BRaw added to support the Ursa Mini 4.6.
Cheers


This is easy to find out. Has anyone used an atomos inferno or Odessy with the UM4.6? If yes then we know if it outputs sdi raw.

Ricardo Marty

as far as i know BM cameras dont offer raw externally. Look at canon the c300mkii and c500 they can do raw externally but not internally. However, the c200 c500 mkii can do raw internally but not externally. So i'm guessing if the camera can do raw internally there's no need for external raw
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostSat Jan 25, 2020 1:29 am

Take a look at the description for camera firmware 4.8:

“New features for URSA Mini 4.6K

Added support for URSA Mini SSD Recorder on URSA Mini 4.6K.”

That SSD gets its signal via 12G SDI. Doesn’t the SSD record raw and ProRes just as if the SSD was a CFast2 card? Ergo it’s receiving raw over SDI. Ergo it could use that capability to write to the BMVA12G series I should think.
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostSat Jan 25, 2020 3:36 am

rick.lang wrote:Take a look at the description for camera firmware 4.8:

“New features for URSA Mini 4.6K

Added support for URSA Mini SSD Recorder on URSA Mini 4.6K.”

That SSD gets its signal via 12G SDI. Doesn’t the SSD record raw and ProRes just as if the SSD was a CFast2 card? Ergo it’s receiving raw over SDI. Ergo it could use that capability to write to the BMVA12G series I should think.

I don’t think that’s how it works. Think about it, they would be sending a 12bit 4:4:4 signal for external use. I don’t think the ssd is sending a signal like that. If that was the case they would say they have support for external raw, and can output 12bit pro res. If you was to take the oddesy could you record raw with? I think the oddesy can record raw lol. Nothing in their manual states that they can output a raw signal
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostSat Jan 25, 2020 6:14 pm

Denny Smith wrote:
Iskandar wrote:Software update 3.0.2 was just released. Unfortunately no BRAW.


This update just adds BMD system support for the new VAs, and is the first step to set them up to add additional upFW updates with added features.

A EVA1 can output a “Raw” signal via its SDI output, the UM4.6 can not, so I would not expect to see BRaw added to support the Ursa Mini 4.6.
Cheers


Um4.6k output raw from sdi to record on ssd recorder of Blackmagic Design ;-)
May be not the right raw for va12g
Today :-)


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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostSat Feb 08, 2020 10:56 pm

Does anyone know the situation with recording blackmagic raw on the video assist 12g with the canon c300 mk2? Bought the new 7 inch video assist yesterday, spent 3 hours trying to get Blackmagic Raw working using an sdi cable (it’s currently greyed out). Couldn’t get it working on the c300 mk2 on a shoot today that we desperately wanted to shoot in this new format. I’ve read a few comments that people are suspicious that they may have released the V.A. 12g implying that it can already record raw out of a c300 mk2 - they state this on their website and in all their marketing - but that in reality it might be in a future firmware upgrade. I hope this isn’t correct as this would be really unprofessional if this is indeed the case. Has anyone worked out how to get raw working with the new video assist? Would hugely appreciate any thoughts?
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Re: BRAW for Video Assist 12G and Panasonic EVA 5.7K

PostWed Feb 12, 2020 9:48 am

Mindset comms wrote:Does anyone know the situation with recording blackmagic raw on the video assist 12g with the canon c300 mk2? Bought the new 7 inch video assist yesterday, spent 3 hours trying to get Blackmagic Raw working using an sdi cable (it’s currently greyed out). Couldn’t get it working on the c300 mk2 on a shoot today that we desperately wanted to shoot in this new format. I’ve read a few comments that people are suspicious that they may have released the V.A. 12g implying that it can already record raw out of a c300 mk2 - they state this on their website and in all their marketing - but that in reality it might be in a future firmware upgrade. I hope this isn’t correct as this would be really unprofessional if this is indeed the case. Has anyone worked out how to get raw working with the new video assist? Would hugely appreciate any thoughts?
[quote="Mindset comms"]Does anyone know the situation with recording blackmagic raw on the video assist 12g with the canon c300 mk2? Bought the new 7 inch video assist yesterday, spent 3 hours trying to get Blackmagic Raw working using an sdi cable (it’s currently greyed out). Couldn’t get it working on the c300 mk2 on a shoot today that we desperately wanted to shoot in this new format. I’ve read a few comments that people are suspicious that they may have released the V.A. 12g implying that it can already record raw out of a c300 mk2 - they state this on their website and in all their marketing - but that in reality it might be in a future firmware upgrade. I hope this isn’t correct as this would be really unprofessional if this is indeed the case. Has anyone worked out how to get raw working with the new video assist? Would hugely appreciate any thought

Braw is not available the VA yet, They said it would be added in the future.

Richard Marty
Resolve 16, Abelton, Focusrite,
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