P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

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JimmyBeveridge

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P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostSat Apr 25, 2020 6:28 pm

For the BMPCC4K what is the best CFast 2.0 card in terms of reliability, speed, and best bang for the buck?
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Denny Smith

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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 8:03 pm

I am using both a San Disk and Sony card that aremin the BMD list, no issues with either one. Their 128GB cards seem the best cost wise for capacity and initial cost.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 8:22 pm

JimmyBeveridge wrote:For the BMPCC4K what is the best CFast 2.0 card in terms of reliability, speed, and best bang for the buck?


You might find it useful to read this thread from last month entitled “What’s the argument for CFast 2.0 cards?” viewtopic.php?f=2&t=109790

Re your question about “bang for the buck”, you will see that even before Covid-19 prices were dropping substantially. As of today, B&H shows significant discounting on some cards. I would be inclined to watch pricing over the next month or so rather than purchase now.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 8:42 pm

I haven't tested many but this is what I've used for more than a year and never had any issues.

Normally, I record Q5 with DCI 24/60 and 2K/120 but have also tested 90s of Q0 at DCI 60 with no issues.

Silicon Power 256GB CFast 2.0:
https://amzn.to/2yQhRo4

As an ex-Samsung T5 guy, I dig that I don't have to deal with a drive and cable to troubleshoot, if there are issues. Plus, the cards are not really that expensive.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostMon Apr 27, 2020 11:42 pm

I think, among the cards officially recommended, the Cinediskpro cards offer the best bang for the buck. A 256GB Cfast 2.0 card sells for 199 GBP ($247.00 USD).

https://cinediskpro.com/cfast-card-256gb
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rick.lang

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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostTue Apr 28, 2020 12:10 am

Jimmy, you might also consider compatibility with the BMPCC4K and card readers. Value is a little different than “bang for the buck” and I use only Wise Advanced cards and card readers for my BMPCC4K (CFast2, SDXC, and SSD cards and drives). Their media are tested on two BMPCC4K cameras they own. They haven’t failed me and come in small and large capacities and they have a Dual card reader with a slot for SDXC and a slot for CFast2.

Another card manufacturer that has performed well and actual now also tests on their BMPCC4K I believe are the Angelbird cards.

The essential problem with bang for the buck is if you use rated speeds on the card as your performance criteria then you are drawn to the lowest cost card. As you know the cards that BMD have approved is the best guideline, but that’s not the whole story as I have tried to indicate.

Glad to see reliability included as a criteria as no cost ‘saving’ is justified if your card fails on a client shoot.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostTue Apr 28, 2020 12:30 am

Excellent point Rick, Wise and Angelbird are the top cards in the reliability category. That said, I have not had the SanDisk Extreme Pro cards fail on me either.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostTue Apr 28, 2020 1:07 am

I would like to think that Blackmagic tests the cards that it recommends. Beyond that, as far as I know there is no objective testing of these cards available. By objective, I mean the kind of professional, transparent testing that AnandTech does and that is discussed in the thread linked earlier.

What we actually have is individuals who believe that their personal experience with the particular cards that they have purchased by a given brand is indicative of reliability. That belief may or may not be well-founded.

My personal view is that some people on this forum (I am not talking about the last two posters) make claims about CFast card reliability that do not jive with what we know about storage media failure generally or with complaints about CFast failure across the internet.

In any event, the pricing trend for all CFast cards is down. As the previous thread shows, the price of Angelbird cards, to which Rick refers, has dropped about 30% in the last 16 months, quite possibly less than 16 months. Current B&H prices show discounting by a number of brands. With Covid-19, and the emergence of more efficient media, there is in my view only one plausible direction for CFast prices over the next few months.
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rick.lang

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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostTue Apr 28, 2020 11:29 am

Quite awhile back, BMD advises that testing takes about 37 hours so they are doing a fair assessment of the cards that make the list. But no matter how reliable a card has been anecdotally, it is possible any card will fail over time.

The other source of ‘failure’ can be an incompatibility that is introduced when a vendor (or BMD potentially) makes a change to the card’s data controller so that the newer cards don’t work as well as they did; BMD continues to test cards but normally it’s the anecdotal feedback we hear about first in that situation. Vendors are usually responsive about correcting those issues with a subsequent firmware update.
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Chris Leutger

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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostTue Apr 28, 2020 9:56 pm

rick.lang wrote:But no matter how reliable a card has been anecdotally, it is possible any card will fail over time.


Everything fails over time! Eventually, that is. Good thread and timely as I start more seriously figuring out what I'm going to need for my Pocket 6K. I can tell you this, I have no desire to add a SSD drive and a cable onto my setup, that's for sure. If I hadn't found a follow-focus to be a useful tool, I wouldn't use rods at all. But I'm trying to keep my setup simple. Screw in SLR Magic variable ND with Hoya IR Cut. Must...resist...mattbox. Those other threads people linked above are good information to read. Seems to me that the CFast cards seem to be the way to go. Would agree that I would be more likely to buy something better (though the prices are painful to look at compared to SD cards) than not.

Rick, if you're recording to the VA 12G are you still recording internally to Cfast?
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostTue Apr 28, 2020 11:08 pm

More new discounting on CFast cards on B&H today, this time Angelbird cards.

Two-pack of 256GB cards: US$430 or $215 each (down from $500/$250 each).
The Angelbird card reader is regular price ($65), a bit pricey but metal construction, USB-C 3.1 Gen. 2.

Unlike some of the discounts, this one is not expressed as time-limited.

Just checked CamelCamel. Looks like the price of this pack fell off a cliff last fall, then from $550 to $510 overnight in March, which is when the reality of Covid-19 hit hit home.

Now in late April, it's down to $430 :)

This is a bit like watching the prices of computer graphics cards when data mining ended.

The question is, just how low are CFast prices going?
Last edited by robedge on Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostTue Apr 28, 2020 11:41 pm

Chris Leutger wrote:...
Rick, if you're recording to the VA 12G are you still recording internally to Cfast?


Hey, Chris! Yes, I would recommend one record in both places for client shoots, if you have the resources, in the BMPCC4K and on the BMVA12G7 for example if your SDXC card supports the resolutions and frame rate. I view it as insurance in the event you have unexpected issues.

Although I understand your reluctance to use the external port to an SSD, that’s my current configuration. The BMPCC4K has my 1TB Wise CFast2 card and the monitor uses the 1TB Wise Portable SSD. If I had a larger 512GB SDXC card that would be the better choice for sure!
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 12:33 am

rick.lang wrote: If I had a larger 512GB SDXC card that would be the better choice for sure!


The SD cards that Blackmagic recommends are all over the place on price. The SanDisk card that you appear to be talking about (as far as I can tell, SanDisk's is the only 512GB SD card that Blackmagic recommends), has also just dropped in price, to US$165. However, some of the SD cards actually cost more per GB than the emerging prices of CFast cards.

Do you know if anyone has tested recommended SD cards for codecs and/or frame rates different than the ones Blackmagic specifies, or is it necessary to extrapolate and play it by ear? I'd be interested in ProRes 422 at UHD, 24-30fps in particular, which Blackmagic does not appear to recommend SD cards for. The SanDisk 512GB, if it worked, would be interesting.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 1:30 am

Well I had the Wise SDXC 512GB card in mind but I’ll wait for it to be certified. Wise I believe has tested it on the BMPCC4K but I’m in no rush on that as I can make do when necessary on short projects with my Wise SDXC 128GB that is certified. It doesn’t look like I’ll be recording any two hour plus events until October as BC is loathe to authorize large gatherings due to COVID-19. My 12 hour June event has been cancelled for 2020 and that’s where I’d need the 512GB card.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 2:00 am

rick.lang wrote:... I can make do when necessary on short projects with my Wise SDXC 128GB that is certified.


This is an example of what’s starting to get interesting. The B&H price for that Wise 128GB SD card is US$200. As discussed four posts up, the new B&H price for an Angelbird 256GB CFast card, when purchased as a 2-pack, is $215, down from $275 in early March and after a major drop in price in the fall.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 4:24 am

That is a $64 savings over the single price. :D
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rick.lang

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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 2:01 pm

Definitely Angelbird has been aggressive in their pricing and may be the better value option. I can’t speak for Wise Advanced, but hopefully their pricing will fall when the disruption from COVID-19 has passed.

Sometimes I think the west coast has better access to Asian gear than European gear although I have European items in my kit. In my case, the ‘company’ comptroller here won’t authorize any significant purchases after I just emptied the bank account to pay for my Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR so given all my cancelled and deferred work, I’m in the sidelines for the rest of the year I fear!

I am enjoying window shopping though as I humbly consider my next priorities.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 3:27 pm

rick.lang wrote:Definitely Angelbird has been aggressive in their pricing and may be the better value option. I can’t speak for Wise Advanced, but hopefully their pricing will fall when the disruption from COVID-19 has passed.


Wise’s prices are also coming down. The current price for a Wise 256GB, also purchased as a 2-pack, is $290 per card, which is $40 above the Angelbird price in early March, just before Covid-19 bit. This suggests that Wise prices, like Angelbird prices, must also have dropped a lot in the fall.

I think that it’s highly probable that weak demand due to Covid-19 is the reason why CFast prices generally are being discounted further at the moment, and that it’s just a matter of time before the current Wise price drops to close to $200. The question is, how low will CFast prices go?

It looks like there’s also pressure on SD prices, but there’s also a much larger market for SD cards. In any event, what we’re beginning to see is CFast prices that are attractive compared to prices for the higher-end SD cards. For this use case, it makes no sense to pay $200 for a Wise 128GB SD card when you can get a 256GB CFast card for $215, although at the moment one has to buy two Angelbird cards to get that price. It also makes no sense to pay $580, or $75 per card more, for a Wise 256GB CFast 2-pack.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 3:56 pm

I think the sales this year that coincide with the American Thanksgiving holiday in late November may be a record sales volume as companies try their best to recover sales volumes from the current downturn in sales related to the dramatic decrease in activity in the film and video sectors.

These sales began with the Friday after Thanksgiving across all retail sectors. Then the computer sector added special sales for the Cyber Monday following Thanksgiving. The last few years these sales have expanded to include the entire week of Thanksgiving. I foresee vendors cutting prices to the bone so they can maintain their sales counts which are often very important to the wholesale prices they pay to manufactures.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 7:59 pm

rick.lang wrote:I think the sales this year that coincide with the American Thanksgiving holiday in late November may be a record sales volume as companies try their best to recover sales volumes from the current downturn in sales related to the dramatic decrease in activity in the film and video sectors.


I don’t think that there are a lot of companies that can afford to maintain their current pricing until late November, especially companies whose sales depend on discretionary spending, which is most of the camera and camera accessory market. Our economies are experiencing serious economic damage. The number of people who have lost their jobs is staggering. Assuming that I’m typical of people who are reasonably comfortable financially, those people are thinking twice about spending money on things that they don’t actually need.

On Monday, DJI launched the Mavic Air 2 and hired just about every warm body on social media to do it. DJI is highly dominant in the drone market, and presumably flush, so maybe it can weather weak sales, but I won’t be surprised if we see discounting on the launch prices sooner rather than later. Of the camera makers, Leica is probably in the best position to weather this, but only because it’s a niche player with a relatively well-off clientele. Still, I suspect that the waitlist for the new SL2 is going to clear fairly quickly. I think that most camera makers, as well as accessory makers, are facing a choice, cut production and sales or cut margins, if not both.

If there’s light at the end of the tunnel by U.S. Thanksgiving, which interestingly will be just after the Presidential and Congressional elections, I agree that there could be healthy pre-Christmas sales volume in the U.S.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostWed Apr 29, 2020 11:40 pm

You’re right the pressure is on vendors and manufacturers already, but I’m sure there is still more to come as understandably companies may defer any large purchases until their business picks up.

To me October looks like a safe bet for the ‘new normal’ world, but it could slip if people think life is back to the ‘normal’ they were used to and no longer feel a need to be cautious.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostThu Apr 30, 2020 1:27 am

Rick, I think the new watch word is going to be cautious from today forward. Once this “bug” disappears, their is always the threat of a new one. We should get back to “normal” business as usual, but with our guard up, and remaining cautious.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostThu Apr 30, 2020 4:58 pm

Hi Rick;
H
Thought I had posted this but I guess not. Have you found a good source of CFast cards in Canada? I like your idea of backing up and I need to expand my options. Right now I have using a couple of SD cards for short stuff and then a Lacie 1T SSD for longer shots. But, yesterday I was almost maxed out by shooting slo-mo of birds. Us exchange is no high right now that I will need to purchase in Canada. Thoughts?
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rick.lang

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P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostThu Apr 30, 2020 5:32 pm

It’s been awhile since I last purchased cards and thankfully that was with a more favourable exchange rate. I bought Wise from Annex Pro. I can also purchase in US dollars from Annex Pro in Canada or Core Micro in the US (I think they are a distributor for Wise Advanced in the States). Fortunately I have US income. So I always use USD with Annex Pro—don’t know any other Canadian company that accepts US dollars for US prices too.

Edit
If you can wait to purchase until August 1st, you may save Canadian duty on goods you buy in the States. Right now, items up to $80 Canadian are duty free under NAFTA, but August 1st, I believe duty free is up to $800 for CUSMA ( NAFTA 2)! The duty isn’t onerous anyway but “a penny saved is a penny earned.”

Edit 2
Several of the video equipment retailers in Canada are really focused on the big players in the booming TV and film production business here. Some I think will totally ignore the little guy; some are good to us though it takes a bit of patience sometimes as their priority is still the big players. Life is short so good to be patient and enjoy whatever the experience.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostThu Apr 30, 2020 9:14 pm

rick.lang wrote:If you can wait to purchase until August 1st, you may save Canadian duty on goods you buy in the States. Right now, items up to $80 Canadian are duty free under NAFTA, but August 1st, I believe duty free is up to $800 for CUSMA ( NAFTA 2)! The duty isn’t onerous anyway but “a penny saved is a penny earned.”


Hi Rick,

The NAFTA/USMCA applies to goods made in Canada, Mexico and the U.S., none of which make CFast cards.

According to Canada Customs, there are already duty and tax exemptions of CA$800 if one is out of the country for 48hrs or more and $200 if away for 24-48 hours. This applies regardless of where you're returning from or where the goods were made: https://travel.gc.ca/returning/customs/ ... -to-canada

Is there a pending change about taxation of online orders from the U.S. that I'm not aware of? As far as I know, larger U.S. retailers charge Canadian sales tax at the time of purchase and remit the tax to the Canadian Government.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostThu Apr 30, 2020 9:53 pm

No change to the Canadian sales tax rules for foreign purchases. That sales tax is either included with the purchase by US vendors such as B&H Photo or it is added to the fees at the time the broker seeks release of the item from Canada Customs.

The $80/$800 duty exemption I mentioned may not be related to the duty free spending limits when a Canadian is out of country and returning home. As I understood it, this was duty related to items shipped to Canada.

I recall the issue while CUSMA was being negotiated. It was a sticking point for The President as the Canadian limit was so low compared to the US limit and the argument was the low limit was unfair to the US as it was seen has a hindrance to the free flow of goods. I think the US wanted Canada to raise the duty free limit to $2,000 to match the US, but Canada only agreed to raise it to $800.

With any of these things, my memory of the details discussed last year could be at fault here of course!
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostThu Apr 30, 2020 10:20 pm

rick.lang wrote:No change to the Canadian sales tax rules for foreign purchases. That sales tax is either included with the purchase by US vendors such as B&H Photo or it is added to the fees at the time the broker seeks release of the item from Canada Customs.

The $80/$800 duty exemption I mentioned may not be related to the duty free spending limits when a Canadian is out of country and returning home. As I understood it, this was duty related to items shipped to Canada.

I recall the issue while CUSMA was being negotiated. It was a sticking point for The President as the Canadian limit was so low compared to the US limit and the argument was the low limit was unfair to the US as it was seen has a hindrance to the free flow of goods. I think the US wanted Canada to raise the duty free limit to $2,000 to match the US, but Canada only agreed to raise it to $800.

With any of these things, my memory of the details discussed last year could be at fault here of course!
.

This was just another U.S. demand that went nowhere. The Retail Council of Canada has a page that explains the negotiating history and the result: https://www.retailcouncil.org/advocacy/ ... agreement/

For online orders by post, the tax-free exemption remains at CA$20. For orders by courier, it goes to $40. There will also be a duty exemption of $150, but in most cases this will be meaningless. The Retail Council says that the net effect is a reduction of $3 on a $150 item.

The difference in the U.S. is that the federal and state governments make no effort to collect sales tax or duty on imports. If there's a point where they do, I've never experienced it, even on purchases for many hundreds of dollars. On the other hand, the ability to avoid sales tax by ordering out of state is rapidly disappearing.
Last edited by robedge on Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostThu Apr 30, 2020 10:30 pm

Thank you for that update on the duty and tax thresholds. Interesting that I read about the $800 limit in CBC News but didn’t see an update for the impact on retail shipments from the US in the final CUSMA. Merci beaucoup!

And I wasn’t even aware of the $20 threshold. I wish that’s $20 US as I await a $24 CAN purchase from Walmart CA where the vendor is in the US with shipment from USPS in Illinois. Counting pennies, eh! It’s so close I suspect that will go through Customs without any further charge.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostFri May 01, 2020 7:13 pm

I just read a post on the forum from summer 2018 that says that a Sandisk Extreme Pro 512GB CFast card was US$1,000. A check with CamelCamel shows that the Amazon price dropped 35% last summer, almost overnight, to $650, about $50 higher at B&H. I saw the same kind of percentage drop, same timing, for the Angelbird 256GB 2-pack.

Post-Covid, the Angelbird 2-pack has dropped again while the Sandisk remains steady. The current situation is that a Sandisk 512GB is $650-$700 and a pair of Angelbird 256GB cards costs $430. ProGrade, which entered the market relatively recently as a "premium" storage card vendor, has also started discounting, but at prices higher than Angelbird, with current sale prices ending tonight. I think that ProGrade is testing the market.

I figure that pricing of CFast cards is likely to be quite volatile over the next few weeks, and that it's going to be a buyers' market. The Angelbird 2-pack price works out to US 0.84 cents per GB, significantly lower than eight months ago, and a lot better than Sandisk’s ~ $1.32, but probably not the bottom. Meanwhile, a Samsung 500GB T5 is $110, or 0.22 cents per GB, and doesn’t require a special card reader.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostWed May 13, 2020 3:29 am

robedge wrote:I figure that pricing of CFast cards is likely to be quite volatile over the next few weeks, and that it's going to be a buyers' market. The Angelbird 2-pack price works out to US 84 cents per GB, significantly lower than eight months ago, and a lot better than Sandisk’s ~ $1.32, but probably not the bottom. Meanwhile, a Samsung 500GB T5 is $110, or 22 cents per GB, and doesn’t require a special card reader.


Pricing of CFast cards continues to be volatile.

During NAB Express, at least one major US retailer is selling Wise's 1TB card for US$639 or 63.9 cents per GB.

This is shaping up to be an amusing case of vendors trying to sell high-margin products, only to discover that people have other priorities :)
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostWed May 13, 2020 4:46 am

It’s a good 1TB drive, never an issue so far for me.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostWed May 13, 2020 4:54 am

rick.lang wrote:It’s a good 1TB drive, never an issue so far for me.


Yes, I know that you like Wise cards. ProAv seems to like Wise storage too. I’m considering this, but would like to see 512GB at that price per GB. I think that there’s a good chance that we will.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostWed May 13, 2020 1:19 pm

I think that is feasible this year.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostSat May 30, 2020 4:48 pm

dondidnod wrote:I think, among the cards officially recommended, the Cinediskpro cards offer the best bang for the buck. A 256GB Cfast 2.0 card sells for 199 GBP ($247.00 USD).

https://cinediskpro.com/cfast-card-256gb

They just dropped the price to 175 GBP US $216, and they throw in a Cfast 2 card reader.
Add the FREE532997 code at check out.

https://www.cinegearpro.co.uk/products/ ... 9725988877
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostSat May 30, 2020 7:27 pm

I just got a Angelbird Match pack, two 256GB c-fast and a card reader and shipping from Angelbird for $487.80. Price on Match Pack alone was $399.90. (That's 200 USD per 256GB card which is actually a bit less than 256GB as with all cards.)

Now for my 2 cents worth... I have a feeling that C-fast is going to go the way of eight-track. There is faster tech like CFexpress likely going into new cameras and such.
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P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostSat May 30, 2020 7:31 pm

The new Komodo and newest Kinefinity are using...

In the long term, you’re right; but as long as the current cameras are in common usage, CFast2 is a good choice.
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostSat Aug 01, 2020 8:54 pm

The free Cfast 2 card reader sale is back. This offer won't last long. A single Cinediskpro 256GB Cfast 2 card is 175 GBP (approx. $229 USD):

https://www.cinegearpro.co.uk/products/ ... e=omnisend
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Re: P4K - Best CFast 2.0 card $

PostSat Aug 01, 2020 11:10 pm

Gotta speak up in favour of Angelbird.

My friends at BMD say the 256Gb CFAST cards test as the fastest of any CFAST card. As of a month ago and with whatever jigs they use anyway.

I bought six of them for my 12K shoot and they worked great. I've got some OG sandisk ones and they're just getting a bit old now.

I've since dealt with Angelbird direct and ended up getting a CFAST card reader as well. It's very clever too. It has a regular cable, but they make it optionally captive. If you buy direct from Angelbird they will also engrave them for you at no cost. (I got mine from BH photo cause I was in a hurry)

Anyway they seem like a great company, and they make media sexy somehow.

JB

*not sponsored, paid for all my media, just like them.
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