Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

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rick.lang

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Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 3:31 am

Marshall, the Tokina 11-20mm has threads for 86mm screw-on filters so I needed those. From the brief test I did, the ND1.2 looked excellent. I should do another test that includes the Kenko Tokina Cinema IRND 0.6 and 0.9.

I already had a complete set of SLR Magic 82mm IRND for the APO lenses. As I recall they were fairly consistent with some variation with the ND1.6. Nothing that couldn’t be managed. I’d certainly recommend them too as very good value for a ten filter set.

The Kenko Tokina cost more, but that may be attributed to their larger size.

I’m a fan of “bigger is better” because you can always use an 86mm filter on an 82mm thread, but the opposite may not be true. However when I bought the 82mm filters I had no idea I’d be buying a larger threaded lens like the Tokina. The front element isn’t huge in diameter but it’s awfully wide angle so they needed to go with 86mm to use it at 11mm!

If you stack another filter you lose 1 or 2mm of your wide angle if you’re shooting open gate 16:9 on the 4.6K. Or you can get away with shooting 4.6K 2.4:1 or UHD.

Of course when I use the 1.33x-65 Anamorphot, that takes 112mm filters! I don’t think I can afford screw-on filters for that so I’ll use the NiSi 4x5.65” IRND with the matte box.

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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostFri Jan 04, 2019 6:14 am

Good comment Rick. However, the Duclos Tokina 11-6 has a 80mm filter thread, but the 86mm will allow you to stack ore filters there, where the 80mm front only allows for one filter at a time, or two thin mount filters, without vignetting.

Marshall, as for comparing the two sets Rick has, I can only say, Rick gets good performance from both.
However, I have not tested either one, but I have tested the SLR Magic variable ND filter, and this works nicely with a slight warming effect. I mostly use NiSi IRNDs, Tiffen and Heliopan ND and Special Effect filters, like the ProMist and FX filters.
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Marshall Harrington

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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 7:26 pm

Thanks for the info guys. Always appreciate your informed comments and dry sense of humor... or was it wet and that is no reference to the weather both of you share in those wet and wonderful places in the world? Interesting that you went NiSi over Firecrest
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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 7:50 pm

Actually Marshall, I have a set of Firecrest in 77mm screw in, and the NiSi filters are 4x4 formthe matte box. Happy New Year
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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostThu Jan 24, 2019 8:14 pm

B&H Photo’s review of the Tokina Cinema ATX 11-20mm T2.9 PL zoom:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/vi ... 1AEBFE1AFF


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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostFri Jan 25, 2019 11:15 am

Hmm, this line makes me think about the qualification of the reviewer:
"Keep in mind the stills below were captured at T2.9 in a shaded location on an overcast day so, as you stop down in brighter conditions, any distortion will be minimized."
A lot of things improve when stopping down, but I never heard of any improvement of distortion!
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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostFri Jan 25, 2019 2:09 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Hmm, this line makes me think about the qualification of the reviewer:
"Keep in mind the stills below were captured at T2.9 in a shaded location on an overcast day so, as you stop down in brighter conditions, any distortion will be minimized."
A lot of things improve when stopping down, but I never heard of any improvement of distortion!


And the sample shots all look awful - I mean why would you post a screenshot for evaluation of lens performance of the convention center all motion blurred? And the colors... like the reviewer has shot for the first time with a camera and lens like this.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostFri Jan 25, 2019 5:36 pm

Well, the review does show the new Tokina lens will cover the larger MFT sensor without issues, if it can cover APS/C at all focal lengths FF (24x36) at 15-20mm. :roll:
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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostFri Jan 25, 2019 6:22 pm

The thing that bothered me the most was that the review avoids shooting toward bright sunlight. As my posted videos illustrate, the lens will flare more than one might want unless the lens is carefully shaded. So it definitely requires a little more care than my APO primes. When shaded properly, the lens seems to be very good.

Of course there’s some barrel distortion at the wider angles but you’re not likely to select 11mm shooting architecture with a zoom lens on a Super 35 sensor. Using it on the BMPCC4K one will probably have a different impression.


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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostWed Mar 27, 2019 12:50 am

Hi Rick,

I have burning question that i feel you will be able to answer.

I have the BMP4K and I want to purchase a cinema zoom lens.
My question is, should i get the Tokina 11-20mm T2.0 in BMP4K's native MFT or PL mount using Metabones speed booster 0.71x?

What will the native MFT 11-20mm translate to? 22-40mm?
and how will it change with a PL mount using the Speed Booster 0.71x?
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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostWed Mar 27, 2019 5:30 pm

You should not need a Speed Booster with a 11-20 Zoom on a large MFT sensor like the Pocket 4K.
The 11-20 has a projected image circle of 30mm, so just covers APS/C and with the 0.71 SP at 11-14mm you are going to be at the edge of its projected image circle, with poor corner and edge coverage, light drop off will be noticeable.

I would get the lens with the PL mount, and just use a normal PL/MFT adapter (either Metabones or Wooden Camera MFT Pro, both can be shimmed), then if you move up to larger camera like the Ursa Mini Pro or similar, you can still use the lens.
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Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostWed Mar 27, 2019 8:57 pm

Andre (and Denny), the image circle of the Tokina 11-20mm Cinema ATX is 30mm which does (barely) cover the Super 35 URSA Mini 4.6K sensor. So you can use it on Mini’s sensor. For that reason, I purchased the PL mount version, not the mFT version. It can do double duty on the Mini 4.6K and the BMPCC4K.

The maximum field of view (compared to 135 film) you’ll get on the

Mini 4.6K is about 16-28mm
BMPCC4K is about 21-38mm
BMPCC4K + new Metabones SpeedBooster for BMPCC4K 0.71x is 15-27mm but that will vignette at the widest focal lengths.

To have all focal lengths work on the BMPCC4K with the SpeedBooster you must use UHD and your effective focal lengths are about 16-29mm.

I don’t have the SpeedBooster, but it’s good to know all my PL lenses can use it when it’s available. The PL-mFT SpeedBooster for BMPCC4K has not been announced to my knowledge but it may be at NAB / IBC 2019.

I don’t know what your needs and preferences are but I bought the lens to be my go-to wide-angle lens for the BMPCC4K and it meets my criteria without using the SpeedBooster.

I’ll usually be shooting with the SLR Magic 1.33x-65 Anamorphot adapter on the Mini 4.6K and the BMPCC4K. So that gives me a wider horizontal angle of view anyway for my APO primes. My widest APO that is compatible with the Anamorphot is currently 32mm which behaves like a 49mm lens horizontally when recording UHD. That’s okay for ‘normal’ views which is primarily what I’m doing.

When I do want to go wider, I’ll forego using the Anamorphot and use the Tokina 11-20mm with it’s equivalent field of view of 21-38mm shooting BMPCC4K 4096x2160 without the Anamorphot adapter. That’s wide enough for me. If something unusual comes up, I still have the Mini 4.6K and an effective 16-28mm likely for tight interiors.

The Anamorphot requires a minimum 30mm focal length and a front element not exceeding 65mm and it is a screw-on with 82mm threads, so it’s not a match for the 11-20mm and it’s 86mm threads.

Sorry for the long answer. Any comments?


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Darren Scott

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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostSat Apr 20, 2019 7:10 pm

Hey Rick..does this lens match well with the APO set?
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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostSat Apr 20, 2019 8:00 pm

It seems to. I haven’t tested both on the same shoot, but I’ll get around to that as the springtime shoots get going. Tonight’s interior shoot (arranged yesterday) could be done with the Tokina, but at this time I’m planning on using the Anamorphot+APO 32mm recording UHD. I may take the Tokina 11-20mm with me, but I don’t have an assistant tonight, so I already have a lot of gear to tote... haven’t even seen the site so not sure what to do!


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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 5:13 am

Thanks. Considering this lens to go with my APO set but there is very little footage apart from your test. I would use it on my Ursa mini Pro mainly and Pocket with my metabones MTF-PL speedbooster. My p4k always has the speedbooster with my APO lenses on it as its bolted to the smallrig cage I use. Denny mentioned it would vignette from 11-14...so I can use 16-20mm in those cases. I do have normal PL to MTF non speedboosted adapter from C7 adapters (the polish dude)...but I can't switch between that and the speedbooster easy...I'd have to just decide which to use for that shoot. I love using the Speedbooster with the APO lenses though. Makes the FOV of the UMP and P4k basically the same (p4k slightly wider).
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Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 6:03 am

For the time being, I’m going with the simple (non-optical) adapters. Have two so I can independently tune one (Wooden Camera) to the Tokina zoom and one (SLR Magic) to the APO primes. I left the Tokina at home and that was the right decision for this evening’s interior shoot.

I hope to use both APO and Tokina on a two camera shoot next month if the BMPCC4K arrives soon.


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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostSun Apr 21, 2019 6:55 am

Wow you still dont have your p4k? When did you order and from where? If you want it in a couple days (or less) call Kellards. They will get one to you and you can cancel that other one.
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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 3:09 pm

I ordered from Annex Pro in Vancouver, British Columbia. I don’t think they began to receive any BMPCC4K until February and shipments have been very small. Any day now...


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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostMon Apr 22, 2019 5:23 pm

I,would never buy a camera from Kellards in New York, they are less than reputable, will sell you a returned camera as new, and will not give good customer service. They also sell grey market equipment as being normal US imports. Vitec Group has them on their Unauthorized dealer list, and will not give any warranty support for any of their items purchased from Kellards. So buyer beware!
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Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostTue May 11, 2021 10:41 pm

Old thread about pre-ordering lenses at full price, but still another opportunity to break the rules now that the Tokina Cinema 25-75mm T2.9 has been released for preorder in May and shipping in July. Available in PL, EF, mFT, and E mounts. It takes 86mm filters with 95mm outside width. The elements are completely new design for the lens, not a rehousing.

I had been planning on pairing my Tokina 11-20mm with a Fujinon 18-55mm T2.9 with the added advantage that I could use it from 30-55mm with my SLR Magic 1.33x-65 Anamorphot for a widescreen view. However this Tokina 25-75mm might a more useful zoom for both interior and exterior shots. The range is similar to the popular Canon 24-70mm. And the physical placement of gears and other dimensions are identical to the Tokina 11-20mm making a lens switch very quick.

The price is a step up from the Fujinon 18-55mm at $3,790 to Tokina 25-75mm at $4,999USD. Either would be my most expensive lens. CineD and NewsShooter have brief announcements about the new Tokina but the sample promotional footage doesn’t tell me much about how well it really performs. I think I’ll wait until I can find a good lens review even if it means another month or two. How the lens flares is important to me; no one comments on flaring but the other characteristics are decent.

Any opinions about this are most welcome.
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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostTue May 11, 2021 11:19 pm

Image
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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostTue May 11, 2021 11:40 pm

With the PL mount, since the image circle is 36mm, the Tokina could be used on the BMPCC4K with a Metabones Ultra SpeedBooster so that is an advantage over the Fujinon that is MFT mount.
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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostWed May 12, 2021 12:37 am

check it out - interesting ad

I'm interested to see how it handles chromatic aberrations
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Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostWed May 12, 2021 12:46 am

Thanks. Jeffrey. That’s the promotional video that’s included in the CineD and NewsShooter announcements. Waiting to see more science and less art about the lens illustrating all characteristics that are important to know beyond well-controlled studio beauty shots (however they are looking good too). The more I think about it, the 25-75mm on the BMPCC4K with the Metabones Ultra SpeedBooster is a very useful combination for a zoom both in terms of providing a T2.1 equivalent aperture and approximately 33-100mm performance compared to full frame angle of views.

That works well with the Tokina 11-20mm providing 21-38mm full frame angle of views without the SpeedBooster. The image circle of the 11-20mm is only 30mm, but it just might work on the BMPCC4K with the Ultra SpeedBooster too for 15-27mm full frame angle of views. Would be a good combo for interiors. For exterior shots one could remove the SpeedBooster.
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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostWed May 12, 2021 8:56 am

A bit of green-eyed envy prevails. I feel I am luddite holdout by sticking with old Nikon prime lenses accumulated during the 35mm groundglass adaptor times. There is an indulgence, a Laowa 12mm f2.8. There is an old Tamron-for-Nikon 80-250mm zoom which a film-maker friend was quite wrapt in about 10 years ago. I have a 12-24mm zoom which has no manual aperture control except for a bunch of cut match sticks to set the aperture lever inside of the mount. I discovered the hard way that there are such things as lenses designed for APS-C sensors which don't do so well with a larger frame. The Tamron has character, any contrast you like provided it is grey.
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rick.lang

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Re: Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostWed May 12, 2021 5:48 pm

Robert, you’re no Luddite, more like a Magician!
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Rules made to be broken: Tokina Cinema-ATX 11-20mm T2.9

PostWed May 12, 2021 5:52 pm

By the way received some feedback from Duclos Lenses regarding the preorders of the new Tokina 25-75mm:

“So far the lens is in extremely high demand…”.

Based on my experience with the Tokina 11-20mm, one might be fortunate to receive the 25-75mm before the end of this year! That’s how my 11-20mm preorder went down. I need to talk to my Comptroller about this… when she’s feeling generous!
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