URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

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xchrisx

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URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostWed May 05, 2021 6:08 am

In the latest 7.3 update like many of us complaining, the focus peaking became very weak even in High mode. Blackmagic, at least fix this problem please. There are threads about it, you would better to read them.

for better understanding: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=140062&hilit=focus+peaking&start=100#p755802

:evil:
Thanks.
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Eugenia Loli

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostWed May 05, 2021 6:15 am

This is true particularly with vintage lenses, that many filmmakers and hobbyists prefer to use over modern photography lenses. Also a problem with speedboosters, since they tend to soften up the image additionally, so the peaking is less visible.

So BMD, plz post an update to offer us a really strong focus peaking (along the lens fixes for the BMPCC 4k). Thx!
Collage artist, illustrator, filmmaker: https://vimeo.com/eugenia
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dondidnod

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostWed May 05, 2021 6:47 am

I've always had trouble seeing the focus peaking's colored lines on my 1966 Mir-1 37mm f/2.8 "1958 Grand Prix Brussels" lens with it's single purple coating. This is a very low contrast lens that is based on a 1954 Zeiss Flektogon formula. The character of the lens gives images a film-like feel.

The problem got worse when I updated my BMPCC 6K to 7.3. To my surprise, I was able to see them if I chose the anamorphic 3.7K mode. It was just the horizontal component of the lines though, as everything is stretched 2x.
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WahWay

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostWed May 05, 2021 7:29 am

Could this be Gen 5 colour with flatter profile? If so BMD should look into updating the focus peaking to reflect this.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostWed May 05, 2021 8:17 am

Anyway you can go back to 7.2, it’s easy, remove camera software, download and install 7.2 version, connect camera, it see that camera can be downgraded, do it.
Wait until you find a better firmware.


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Kristian Lam

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostWed May 05, 2021 8:48 am

Ok. Thanks for the feedback. We will look into it.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostWed May 05, 2021 2:53 pm

I've rolled back the 7.3 updates on my P6K and will just wait until a stable firmware is available. Firmware 7.3 has nice feature but is so buggy I wouldn't want to have anything near especially during a project that I want to use the P6K with.
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askomiko

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostWed May 05, 2021 5:34 pm

Yes, the new focus peaking is totally invisible and useless.
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Likeable Media

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostFri May 07, 2021 2:23 am

Agreed. Focus peaking on BMPCC4K is not great.
Esspecially for those of us that are colour blind. It would be awesome to have an option to change the focus peaking colour to blue (like Panasonic GH5) which is visible to us colour blind folks.
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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostFri May 07, 2021 5:40 am

Kristian Lam wrote:Ok. Thanks for the feedback. We will look into it.


Thanks Kristian.

I have tested further today. I think the problem is NOT about focus peaking. It is about the LCD display. The LCD of V7.3 is less contrast and much finer and fainter looking than v6.9.6. The LCD of the v6.9.6 is much grainier. This is probably the reason. I do not have an external monitor to test. I have used the same black and white LUT (attached). This might be also related to the color science as well.

I though it was my camera setting was not the same when taking the screen shot. During this time, I have set my camera to manual so that there is no auto adjustment of aperture or shutter.

I took some stills with P4K to see if there is difference: NO

The top one is V6.9.6, The bottom is V7.3
Attachments
01_Black and White LUTs_Classic B and W.zip
BW LUT
(330.36 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
Untitled.jpg
Untitled.jpg (524.78 KiB) Viewed 1621 times
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Tom Roper

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostFri May 07, 2021 8:07 am

I think selecting blue lines is more visible.
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Robert Castiglione

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostFri May 07, 2021 10:13 am

Honestly, I am not seeing such a dramatic difference. Green is very visible particularly on human faces.
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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostFri May 07, 2021 4:29 pm

Shaoyan wrote:
Kristian Lam wrote:Ok. Thanks for the feedback. We will look into it.


Thanks Kristian.

I have tested further today... I have used the same black and white LUT (attached). This might be also related to the color science as well.

I though it was my camera setting was not the same when taking the screen shot. During this time, I have set my camera to manual so that there is no auto adjustment of aperture or shutter…


Just having both images taken with manual settings is only part of the story.

Are you sure both cameras were using the identical Dynamic Range? Best to use Dynamic Range Film in such a comparison. If you used Dynamic Range Video or Extended Video in both, you won’t get identical results in Gen 4 and Gen 5 as they were changed in Gen 5; Dynamic Range Video in Gen 4 seemed harsh to me whereas Dynamic Range Video in Gen 5 is very useful.

Using a third-party LUT still could be the source of your difference as the LUT could have assumed Gen 4 and needs to be redone for Gen 5.
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Shaoyan

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostFri May 07, 2021 6:27 pm

rick.lang wrote:Are you sure both cameras were using the identical Dynamic Range? Best to use Dynamic Range Film in such a comparison. If you used Dynamic Range Video or Extended Video in both, you won’t get identical results in Gen 4 and Gen 5 as they were changed in Gen 5; Dynamic Range Video in Gen 4 seemed harsh to me whereas Dynamic Range Video in Gen 5 is very useful.

Using a third-party LUT still could be the source of your difference as the LUT could have assumed Gen 4 and needs to be redone for Gen 5.


Hi Rick,

The P4K setting was the same as default, and used BRAW, Constant bitrate and FILM, 8:1 for both. Every time after rest/update Firmware, I would just load the LUT and set it as default, and change the intensity to HIGH and LCD to 100% brightness, ISO to 2000 and Aperture @4.0. Everything else is default.

Here is another set with and without LUT. ISO 1250 setting of p4K are the same. Not as scientific, but the difference is obvious. The stills taken by the p4K are the same, just the LCD.

Top is the 6.9.6, and bottom is 7.3.

AND, the autofocus is abysmal, completely useless. I use metabones non-booster and canon 16-35 f4 L lens. With V6.9.6, the p4k tries longer and get to the target. With v7.3, it attemts very briefly and stopped and off off target almost all the times. The attempt of auto focusing is so brief.
Attachments
color.jpg
without third party LUT or any LUT
color.jpg (624.89 KiB) Viewed 1477 times
BW.jpg
with Black and white LUT
BW.jpg (517.17 KiB) Viewed 1477 times
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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostFri May 07, 2021 6:41 pm

This is so strange to hear considering this is one of the items specifically mentioned in the release notes.
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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSat May 08, 2021 12:01 am

Shaoyan wrote:The P4K setting was the same as default, and used BRAW, Constant bitrate and FILM, 8:1 for both. Every time after rest/update Firmware, I would just load the LUT and set it as default

As Rick says, you can't use the exact same LUT for Gen 4 as Gen 5. They need to be modified for the new log curve. If you are using the LUTs that come with the camera that is fine as they are already modified to work with the colour science version on the camera, but Video and Extended Video have also been updated:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=125084
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rick.lang

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSat May 08, 2021 1:01 am

Shaoyan, thanks for the additional requested details showing the consistent settings for Dynamic Range Film. Good.

Is it possible to contact the supplier of the LUT for a LUT based on the new Gen 5? Usually it takes awhile for third-parties to offer items that keep up with vendor changes. However with what you’ve shown us, the supplier may already be preparing an update or a new version for Gen 5.
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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSat May 08, 2021 1:08 am

By the way, in my past experience I have rarely set the strength of focus assist red coloured lines to High. Normally I use the middle setting unless I’m recording a lot of action typically a sports event.

Even then I seldom use High as I don’t think it’s very accurate in that it appears to broaden the definition of what is in focus. Perhaps someone can correct me on my assumption though as I haven’t ‘proven’ it correct. I do rely more on the settings that are less aggressive.

If your subject is close to stationary, focus peaking with white edges is quite accurate and preferred by some such as Denny Smith.
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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSat May 08, 2021 1:18 am

CaptainHook wrote:
Shaoyan wrote:The P4K setting was the same as default, and used BRAW, Constant bitrate and FILM, 8:1 for both. Every time after rest/update Firmware, I would just load the LUT and set it as default

As Rick says, you can't use the exact same LUT for Gen 4 as Gen 5. They need to be modified for the new log curve. If you are using the LUTs that come with the camera that is fine as they are already modified to work with the colour science version on the camera, but Video and Extended Video have also been updated:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=125084


@rick.lang as well

The LUT I used is not a commercially purchased LUT for B4K. It is a free LUT i found online. I found it easier to focus+peaking with B+W. So I can't really go back and ask for modification.

I never use video or extended video.

Disregard the LUT effect, I think the pair of shots without any LUT are by themselves enough to illustrate the point I would like to make: The LCD display on v7.3 is smoother and finer and less contrasty. This may be the reason why the peaking is weaker. I am not capable of discerning the color difference.
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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSat May 08, 2021 4:10 am

I like Shaoyan's logic behind using b&w lut for higher focus peaking visibility, except that by not using video or extended video gamma for viewing, it makes for fewer contrast edges for the colored peaking lines to act upon.

So I wonder about using Resolve+BRAW to create an extended video b&w display lut that could be used as an aid for focusing; that also would make BRAW film mode recordings in full color; in other words usable for full color BRAW film mode recording by not baking the display lut into the recording itself.

1.) Light a 18% gray card and do a custom white balance with the P4K/P6K etc.
2.) Use the false color to expose it @ exactly 18% middle gray.
3.) Shoot a clip of this in BRAW, film mode.
4.) Bring this into Resolve. From the raw tab, desaturate the color and apply the Gen 5 extended video lut.
5.) Create 3D cube lut from the above.

With the viewing lut thusly created and uploaded into the camera, you should have a b&w extended video viewing lut that would make the LCD display black and white imagery with extended video contrast edges for the colored peaking to act upon.

Would this work?
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Shaoyan

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSat May 08, 2021 11:57 am

Tom Roper wrote:I like Shaoyan's logic behind using b&w lut for higher focus peaking visibility, except that by not using video or extended video gamma for viewing, it makes for fewer contrast edges for the colored peaking lines to act upon.

So I wonder about using Resolve+BRAW to create an extended video b&w display lut that could be used as an aid for focusing; that also would make BRAW film mode recordings in full color; in other words usable for full color BRAW film mode recording by not baking the display lut into the recording itself.

1.) Light a 18% gray card and do a custom white balance with the P4K/P6K etc.
2.) Use the false color to expose it @ exactly 18% middle gray.
3.) Shoot a clip of this in BRAW, film mode.
4.) Bring this into Resolve. From the raw tab, desaturate the color and apply the Gen 5 extended video lut.
5.) Create 3D cube lut from the above.

With the viewing lut thusly created and uploaded into the camera, you should have a b&w extended video viewing lut that would make the LCD display black and white imagery with extended video contrast edges for the colored peaking to act upon.

Would this work?


Double LUTs?

I wish BMD could make their own Black and White version of Video or Extended Vidio LUTs. That are 2 additional LUTs.
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Shaoyan

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSat May 08, 2021 12:46 pm

Tom Roper wrote:I like Shaoyan's logic behind using b&w lut for higher focus peaking visibility, except that by not using video or extended video gamma for viewing, it makes for fewer contrast edges for the colored peaking lines to act upon.

So I wonder about using Resolve+BRAW to create an extended video b&w display lut that could be used as an aid for focusing; that also would make BRAW film mode recordings in full color; in other words usable for full color BRAW film mode recording by not baking the display lut into the recording itself.

1.) Light a 18% gray card and do a custom white balance with the P4K/P6K etc.
2.) Use the false color to expose it @ exactly 18% middle gray.
3.) Shoot a clip of this in BRAW, film mode.
4.) Bring this into Resolve. From the raw tab, desaturate the color and apply the Gen 5 extended video lut.
5.) Create 3D cube lut from the above.

With the viewing lut thusly created and uploaded into the camera, you should have a b&w extended video viewing lut that would make the LCD display black and white imagery with extended video contrast edges for the colored peaking to act upon.

Would this work?


For your info: here is a compilation of different setting to compare focus peaking. BW of either BRAW video or BRAW Ext. Video is significantly more helpful than colored ones.

I know the choice of color for the peaking matters, esp, in my testing. It is true either green or blue is better. However, with an overlay of B+W LUT, it does not matter what background you are shooting. All three colors will stand out more on B+W.

So, if BMD can add Video B+W or Ext. Video B+W LUT, it will be awsom!!


P4K BRAW Video, BRAW Ext. Video, and BRAW Film (Top, Middle and bottom)
Focus peaking level set at high
LUT, the same black and white LUT I used before
Attachments
vid-ext_vid-film.jpg
focus peaking
vid-ext_vid-film.jpg (1010.32 KiB) Viewed 1257 times
Last edited by Shaoyan on Sat May 08, 2021 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSat May 08, 2021 1:03 pm

I had the same problem with 6k pro, was testing in the studio wih peaking in flat/film profile and after reviewing footage on the pc monitor i saw that some footages were out of the focus.
I guess problem is that gen5/film profile is too flat, because when i change profile into video, peaking were working great. Hope that they will fix it soon. Besides that i wish that they could add view playback DNG stills in camera as well.
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Pete Tomkies

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSat May 08, 2021 5:05 pm

Likeable Media wrote:Agreed. Focus peaking on BMPCC4K is not great.
Esspecially for those of us that are colour blind. It would be awesome to have an option to change the focus peaking colour to blue (like Panasonic GH5) which is visible to us colour blind folks.

I thought blue was one of the available colours?

Aren't the options red, green blue, white and black?
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Tom Roper

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSat May 08, 2021 7:50 pm

Pete Tomkies wrote:Aren't the options red, green blue, white and black?


Yes. The other poster hasn't found it in the menu. It's sort of hidden behind the monitor page, tab for LCD-HDMI-BOTH.
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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSun May 09, 2021 3:59 am

Pete Tomkies wrote:Aren't the options red, green blue, white and black?

My peaking color was red.
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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSun May 09, 2021 12:39 pm

I find it shows more depth of the area that is in focus but leaves out faces depending on skin color and lighting until the person moves. Weird but useable.
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Pete Tomkies

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSun May 09, 2021 11:01 pm

bmpcc6k wrote:
Pete Tomkies wrote:Aren't the options red, green blue, white and black?

My peaking color was red.

As has been said above, sometimes changing the colour can help to make the peaking more visible.

I usually stay with either with red or green but have used blue at times. I haven't found a time where white or black is the best option yet though.
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Pete Tomkies

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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSun May 09, 2021 11:04 pm

drknsss wrote:I find it shows more depth of the area that is in focus but leaves out faces depending on skin color and lighting until the person moves. Weird but useable.

I have definitely found that some people have faces that it is hard to tell when they are in focus.

Focus peaking needs contrast in an image to work and I guess some people don't have very contrasty faces?

I have always blamed the talent not the camera ;)
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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostMon May 10, 2021 2:53 pm

Just chiming in here to add that some combination of either focus peaking update and/or gen 5 update has caused it to be really hard to see on my standard 6K. I'm using the same settings and lens combo so the update is the only thing that changed. Please add an additional level or two of sensitivity as high is now less visible than the old low was. Thanks.
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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostFri May 14, 2021 12:11 pm

Kristian Lam wrote:Ok. Thanks for the feedback. We will look into it.

any update since?
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Re: URGENT!! 7.3 update focus peaking is TERRIBLE!

PostSat May 15, 2021 2:38 pm

Ok I did a shoot today and I feel guilty for sayingthat the problem is not too bad. Focusing was certainly more difficult.
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