Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

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Egami_1

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Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostFri May 14, 2021 8:05 pm

Hello dears
My background is photography and I exclusively shoot with Nikon gears, recently I got interested in video shooting , mainly product videography, I’m also interested in color grading and I started to learn that in Davinci Resolve, I find myself in a great confusion because I cannot decide and I’m really torn between Blackmajic Pocket 4k and 6k, I want to use make us of my Nikon lenses and I do not want starting over with different lenses brand , very difficult for me to sell my Nikon lenses and buy other brand lenses, this option is not practical in my case since I live in Africa , if I pick 4K I have to get speed-booster ( expensive) and I’m getting more light and wider perspective especially with 0.64 x , as you know for both camera I still need extra budget for accessories such cage, SDD card, gimbal ect.. , with 6k I can buy cheap Nikon F/G lenses to Ef mount adapter which I have not any idea how they work or what compromise I will face , this represent my biggest concern and fear, I do not want to get shocked by unforeseen bad surprise going this route , as you know I have no chance to return it back easily , I know with 6k I have to deal with bigger file sizes if I want to shoot in raw and I do not think this is a problem for me, it is the price I’m willing to pay to master color grading in Davinci, beside I heard if I shoot raw in 6k and down-scaled it to 4k I will get nicer and sharper image than when shooting in 4k raw in pocket 4k ( correct me if I’m wrong ). You can sense from my post I’m more inclined to 6k  but still your advice is so important to me, you are the guys who I can trust
I’m sorry if this question being raised before in the forum
My current Gear as follows
Prime lenses
• Carl Zeiss 21m. F2.8 Zf
• Nikon 50mm f1.4 D
• Nikon 85mm, f1.8 G
• Nikon 135mm, 1.2 D
• Sigma 150mm, f2.8
Zoom lenses
• Nikon 16-35mm, f2.8 G
• Nikon 24-70mm, f2.8 G
Camera Nikon D810
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Eugenia Loli

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostFri May 14, 2021 9:20 pm

Get the 4k, with the Viltrox speedbooster, not the Metabones. Costs just $150, and it brings the crop factor to 1.35x, which is aplenty. Quality is good enough for video. Remember, film was much, much softer, and no one complained. What matters is how good your film is, not how sharp the video is. And if you're only going to do product videography, then you don't need a speedbooster at all. Just use your lenses with an adapter.
Collage artist, illustrator, filmmaker: https://vimeo.com/eugenia
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rick.lang

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostFri May 14, 2021 9:46 pm

Will you be primarily delivering 4K or 2K/HD to your clients? Since you are willing to shoot 6K, that could produce a better quality 4K deliverable. But if you are delivering 2K/HD, the BMPCC4K is more than adequate in my opinion. I own the BMPCC4K so I have a bias toward that, especially when you add a focal reducer such as the Metabones SpeedBooster or similar adapter as then your angle of view will be wider than shooting 6K. The BMPCC4K costs less than the BMPCC6K so that savings can go to fund the focal reducer.

The BMPCC6K Pro of course has additional features such as the EVF and built-in ND, but shooting products in a studio might make those features unnecessary compared to if you were shooting run’n’gun.

In terms of image quality both are good choices.
Rick Lang
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drknsss

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 2:14 am

I have the 4K and the 6K and have some Nikon glass mixed in with everything else, not as great as your collection so I understand your concern. The adapter does not talk to the camera so the aperture settings adjusted by eye for some modern lenses but that's just the way it is.

If you get the 4k you would get maybe one Panasonic lens for a compact setup that makes you look more touist-like.

My experience using the 4K with the Viltrox Nikon Speedbooster and Nikon glass (old and new) is they are an excellent choice, so keep them all! . I see so many people choosing certain Canon lenses (Sigma 18-35) . If you want photo-quality sharpness then go for for that Sigma but its not for me). I think Nikon glass is the better value for your specific situation as switching over is costly.

Keep that Nikon glass! I'm planning on getting a few Canon lenses for the 6k but the Adapters are doing the job for now.

If not then any of those primes will work fantastic with either 4K or 6K with dumb adpaters.

For example, I have the Nikon 50mm 1.8 so why would I buy the 50mm Canon version? No reason to. Since autofocus is not that great with either camera. I have a $500 EVF I can use on both cameras from PortKeys to insure critical focus.
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Robert Castiglione

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 4:40 am

Hi,

I have a large collection of Nikon glass, all manual, and I would say go with the 4k.

Reasons:

1. Eugenia is spot on. The images from the 4k are still quite natural looking with plenty of resolution - enough for any human being I would say.
2. Paired with a speedbooster the 4k camera is a delight to use and you can continue using all of your nikon glass. The speedbooster is one of those amplifying technologies which truly creates new possibilities. There is no discernible difference in quality shooting with a speedbooster. Speedboosters with different mounts provide endless possibilities for experimentation and play with different vintage lenes. The 6k is quite limiting in lens possibilities. I have both the viltrox and the metabones. Sure, the metabones is "better" but I would not bother. The viltrox is excellent.
3. The nikon glass is, as you probably know, really really good and produces excellent images. The pre ai and ai lenses have a nice throw. I also have a good collection of Leica R and they are of course superb. A different look from Nikons.
4. The 4k is almost totally silent with no fan noise. This is important to me for various reasons but it might not be a consideration for you.

Good luck with your decision.
Rob Castiglione
rob.castiglione.com
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John Griffin

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 5:28 am

I’m not sure you can get a G to EF adapter that will enable electronic aperture control so you only option may be the P4K with an adapter if you want to use all your lenses.
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robert Hart

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 9:16 am

Egami_1. - When using Nikon lenses with a focal reducer/speedbooster or EF-Mount to Nikon F-Mount adaptors, my personal preference is to mask the EF-Mount lens control pins with thin adhesive tape.

I do this so there can be no possible shorting of the pins and damage caused to the electronics of the camera. Make sure that there is no free overhanging edge of the tape not stuck down. It may pick up and roll off the pins as the lens tail rotates in the mount.

Robert Castigione. - Do your Nikon lenses date back to the times of 35mm groundglass adaptors like mine? I have sometimes been tempted to swap them for fewer modern geared cine lenses but then think about for what real purpose when the range of lenses would necessarily be much smaller.

I have a patched up Ursa Mini 4.6K and original "big" URSA 4K. How does your present BM camera stack up in practical usability. The "big" URSA is rather brutal but the smaller 4.6K less so. With both of them being rebuilds from several casualties, they could lay down for the count.

A single newer smaller 4K or 6K might turn out to be the least unaffordable choice in the future when putting dollar value upon one's own free labour.
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ttakala

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 10:27 am

I use old manual focus Nikon glass with the 4K with Metabones 0.64 XL. I bought the Viltrox speedbooster first, it was sharp enough for me, maybe a little softer edges than the Metabones but I had some ugly flaring with the Viltrox so decided to lay the money down for the Metabones which does perform much better in that regard.

Since you're aiming for product videography sharpness and a certain sterileness of image might be more important than for narrative work. In that case the 6K will deliver better downsampled 4K. Arguably less glass in front of the sensor is also better. With no speedbooster required, you're getting the image that Nikon designed in the lenses. Your 16-35 would still cover the wide angles quite well with the 6K.

I understand that the F/G to EF adapters are quite thin and a bit fiddly to remove and people use one adapter for each lens instead of leaving the adapter on the camera body.

Maybe you know this, but since your lenses are mostly AF or newer it's important to know that neither 4K or 6K has autofocus with Nikon lenses. Autofocus lenses are not very nice to focus manually, compared to older fully manual lenses. If autofocus is important to you, maybe consider the Nikon Z6 with the Nikon's own F adapter.

Not to hijack the thread, but since it's relevant: Can anyone with both 4K and 6K comment on the fan noise between the two? Is there a big difference? I'm considering the 6K/Pro. I shoot a lot of craft, hands working, otherwise silent, often close ups, sometimes I can hear the 4K fan in the audio recording. So my biggest fear is the fan noise... and the data rates. :lol:
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Egami_1

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 12:24 pm

thank you all guys
I'm glad with your replies , much valuable brainstorming feedback indeed , i can see from the replies most of you guy have recommended the Pocket 4k except Mr ttakala who also has a good solid point as you guys

best regard
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Egami_1

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 12:25 pm

Eugenia Loli wrote: Remember, film was much, much softer, and no one complained. What matters is how good your film is, not how sharp the video is.


yeah may be i have to change my photography background mind setup where sharpness is very important

Eugenia Loli wrote: And if you're only going to do product videography, then you don't need a speedbooster at all. Just use your lenses with an adapter.

do you mean in light control environment like studio i do not have to worry about losing that extra stop gain when using speedbooster? what about the reduced field of view with dummy adapter? or the camera distance will compensate for that.
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Egami_1

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 1:06 pm

rick.lang wrote:Will you be primarily delivering 4K or 2K/HD to your clients?


Yes Rick i primarily will be delivering in 4k to my client .
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Egami_1

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 1:33 pm

drknsss wrote:I have the 4K and the 6K and have some Nikon glass mixed in with everything else, not as great as your collection so I understand your concern.


darknsss as a Nikon user I feel we have left behind with Blackmajic, I understand why Blackmajic have picked Ef mount on their 6k , but I wished if they could produce even small number with F mount, I do not know , may be this stupid idea lol

[quote"] The adapter does not talk to the camera so the aperture settings adjusted by eye for some modern lenses but that's just the way it is. [/quote]

Yes I’m not used to shoot with manual focus, it will be will be a challenge to me, I hope with practice I will nail it

[quote"] Keep that Nikon glass! I'm planning on getting a few Canon lenses for the 6k but the Adapters are doing the job for now. [/quote]

Yes down the road may be I will get other lenses, may be cine type of lenses

[quote"] For example, I have the Nikon 50mm 1.8 so why would I buy the 50mm Canon version? No reason to. [/quote]

This makes sense

[quote"] Since autofocus is not that great with either camera. I have a $500 EVF I can use on both cameras from PortKeys to insure critical focus.[/quote]

Is not the build in monitor sufficient enough to monitor the focus ?
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drknsss

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 1:42 pm

ttakala wrote:Not to hijack the thread, but since it's relevant: Can anyone with both 4K and 6K comment on the fan noise between the two? Is there a big difference? I'm considering the 6K/Pro. I shoot a lot of craft, hands working, otherwise silent, often close ups, sometimes I can hear the 4K fan in the audio recording. So my biggest fear is the fan noise... and the data rates. :lol:


I have both.

I shoot on location 99% of the time and use a mix of lav mics and a cardio mic/boom plugged into a separate field recorder and hear nothing that doesn't mix with ambient / room tone. I guess in your case you are so close to the subject/object that the fan sound is reflecting off the close surfaces back to the mic, especially if its right above the camera. After a 1/2 meter away the fan sound drops off dramatically on my mics.

Have NOT used it outside on a sunny day thou.....,

As for data rates I have used the 6K on two narrative short film shoots and I don't notice any massive difference in file sizes. It's not like the files are double the size, especially with the new options for recordings with the 7.3 update.
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Frank Engel

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 1:56 pm

One of the benefits of using manual focus lenses designed for a larger format and attaching with adapters is that you can use a small number of different adapters to make your lens collection stretch a bit further.

For example, there are adapters for M42 mount lenses for micro 4/3 that turn them into tilt/shift lenses, adjustable macro lenses (by moving the lenses further away from the sensor), which change the focal length ("speed boosters") and at the same time allow more light to hit the sensor (by concentrating it into a smaller area), providing improved exposure / less noise in darker situations...

Thus a small number of lenses paired with a small number of adapters can give quite a bit of versatility, as long as you are willing to manually focus.

For situations where autofocus is needed, you can then use native lenses instead.

From a quick search, it looks like a similar range of adaptors is available from manually focused Nikon glass as well...
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Egami_1

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 2:04 pm

Robert Castiglione wrote:2. Paired with a speedbooster the 4k camera is a delight to use and you can continue using all of your nikon glass. The speedbooster is one of those amplifying technologies which truly creates new possibilities. There is no discernible difference in quality shooting with a speedbooster. Speedboosters with different mounts provide endless possibilities for experimentation and play with different vintage lenes.


Hi rogert , Yes I agree with you, increasing the field of view and gaining extra stop without losing the quality is big advantage and to be honest I'm not sure about the quality of the dummy adapters (Nikon F/G to EF mount) some are complaining they are not fit properly and their risk of falling lenses or difficulty on removing them.

3. The Nikon glass is, as you probably know, really really good and produces excellent images. The pre ai and ai lenses have a nice throw. I also have a good collection of Leica R and they are of course superb. A different look from Nikons.


Yes they are darn good on my Nikon D810 for my photography work, I never tried them for filing I hope they have the same elegance

4. The 4k is almost totally silent with no fan noise. This is important to me for various reasons but it might not be a consideration for you.


Good to know the fan noise difference , thanks a lot
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Egami_1

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 2:16 pm

John Griffin wrote:I’m not sure you can get a G to EF adapter that will enable electronic aperture control so you only option may be the P4K with an adapter if you want to use all your lenses.

yes there is no adapter allow electronic aperture control but there is some kind of adapters to control it manually (with Aperture Control Dial) on amazon any many other cheaper option in aliexpress but I'm not sure about their quality
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Egami_1

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 2:20 pm

robert Hart wrote:Egami_1. - When using Nikon lenses with a focal reducer/speedbooster or EF-Mount to Nikon F-Mount adaptors, my personal preference is to mask the EF-Mount lens control pins with thin adhesive tape.
I do this so there can be no possible shorting of the pins and damage caused to the electronics of the camera. Make sure that there is no free overhanging edge of the tape not stuck down. It may pick up and roll off the pins as the lens tail rotates in the mount.


thanks Robert for this valuable advice , sure i will take it
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Egami_1

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 3:04 pm

ttakala wrote: Since you're aiming for product videography sharpness and a certain sterileness of image might be more important than for narrative work. In that case the 6K will deliver better downsampled 4K.


Dang ..Now you are awakening my sleeping photorpahy giant again (sharpness ) :D :D , you have strong argument here regarding my product filming , do not you think it is better to get a sharper image and then softening to get that film looking if i need it in post (Davinci ) than the other way round ??[/quote].

With no speedbooster required, you're getting the image that Nikon designed in the lenses. Your 16-35 would still cover the wide angles quite well with the 6K.


You are absolutely right,
Is P6k has a shallower depth of field than 4K and hence more bokeh can be achieved? Or this just misconception found around?

I understand that the F/G to EF adapters are quite thin and a bit fiddly to remove and people use one adapter for each lens instead of leaving the adapter on the camera body.


And quit cheap especially in aliexpress, but how their quality I have no idea

Autofocus lenses are not very nice to focus manually, compared to older fully manual lenses. If autofocus is important to you, maybe consider the Nikon Z6 with the Nikon's own F adapter.


Man I feel I’m doomed , how to solve this problem :D , I love to have Blackmajic Braw and their color science and how easy to handle that in Davinci resolve, I have no idea about Nikon video capabilities and their color science . maybe I need to look into Nikon video raw file and how it is compared to Braw
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John Brawley

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostSat May 15, 2021 4:11 pm

Get a 4k. Use your Nikon lenses.

Radical idea.

Screw the speedbooster. Why do you need it ? The format size isn’t THAT big of a difference. It’s more elegant to simply use your Nikon lenses with a mechanical mount adaptor.

You will notice you need something wider, SO get some native m43 wider lenses. There’s a lot of good options in both manual and af lenses. Your 16-35 will still be a great lens on the 4k without a speedbooster.

Another option is to look at recording to BRAW using the Z series Nikon bodies.

I use the pocket 4k only with native lenses. Its liberating. Trust me, the sooner you stop worrying about crop factors the better your work will be :-)

You can do the same, except use your Nikon for longer focal lengths and for super wide, augment with others. And of course keep the Nikon for stills.

JB
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ttakala

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostMon May 17, 2021 11:49 am

drknsss wrote:I have both.

I shoot on location 99% of the time and use a mix of lav mics and a cardio mic/boom plugged into a separate field recorder and hear nothing that doesn't mix with ambient / room tone. I guess in your case you are so close to the subject/object that the fan sound is reflecting off the close surfaces back to the mic, especially if its right above the camera. After a 1/2 meter away the fan sound drops off dramatically on my mics.

Have NOT used it outside on a sunny day thou.....,

Thanks for the input, Gordon.

Yes, mine is kind of a special use case. The camera is sometimes less than half a meter away, so no matter how I try to place the mics, they end up picking up the fan noise. So far, RX de-hum has taken care of the noise when needed, though. I consider the actual sounds of the work to be important so foley is not really feasible either. I guess I'll need to rent or borrow a 6K to do my own tests before committing. Or just grow out of gear acquisition syndrome. :roll:

Outside fan noise has never been an issue since there's always more ambient noise anyway.
drknsss wrote:As for data rates I have used the 6K on two narrative short film shoots and I don't notice any massive difference in file sizes. It's not like the files are double the size, especially with the new options for recordings with the 7.3 update.

With the extra resolution you can probably get away with more compression to even out the data rate difference a bit. Still, a 6K frame has 2.4 times the pixels of 4K...
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostTue May 18, 2021 7:33 pm

Egami_1 wrote:yeah may be i have to change my photography background mind setup where sharpness is very important


Sharpness is still important, and always will be, because it's a tool that you can use to guide the viewer's eye. It's not the same as depth of field, but then a large depth of field isn't always the goal in a photograph, either.

Also don't confuse sharpness and resolution. They aren't linked. You can get razor sharp images with a BMPC 2K and and emit perfectly usable 4K images... and in fact, after up-rezzing SkyFall to 4K from a 2K master, Roger Deakins still thought it was too sharp.
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TurboTechNerd

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostThu Jun 03, 2021 2:17 pm

Fan noise is typically a line/mic issue
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Denny Smith

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Re: Nikon guy torn beween Blackmajic 4k and 6k

PostThu Jun 03, 2021 10:40 pm

Egami, I am also a,long time Nikon user, going back to the original Nikon F days. I have tried other cameras through the years, but keep coming back to Nikon, for its IQ, build,quality and grand lenses. I also use Zeiss ZF glass, and the new Nikon Z S lenses are as good or better than the Zeiss. So I picked up a Z6 when they came out, best decision I have made in a while. Now that it can shoot BRaw on an external Video Assist recorder (you need the monitor anyway), you can have your cake and eat it it too.

I have shot both the Z6 and Pocket 4 K, each has their unique features and advantages, but both will do what you want, shoot excellent film quality video. With the recent release,of the Z6II, you can pick up a lightly used Z6 for a good price. The Pocket 4K is also an excellent value.

But I agree with John B, usingmthenPocket,4K,with native lenses, and the Nikon glass on the Z6, is a,better,overall experience. I used my ZF lenses (all manual) on the Pocket 4K, and it worked well also.
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