Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pockets?

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Steve Golding

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Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pockets?

PostThu Jun 17, 2021 11:43 am

Is it just me? Probably, but I really loved the original BMPCC. Yes the 6K Pro is great and it has the viewfinder we have all been asking for since day one! It is though the size of a small car. Could we please have a simple small Pocket camera that can be carried around with a minimum for fuss. If I am working with a crew (very rare these days) I don't care how big and heavy the camera is, but just me wandering around. Well.

I guess it would have to be 4K, up to 30fps (slow mo eats batteries), Prores, no BRAW since I believe that is processor intensive, and a passable set of onboard mics. Better screen (slightly bigger?), and it could use the 6K Pro's Viewfinder if required.

Not much to ask is it?

Steve
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Eugenia Loli

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostThu Jun 17, 2021 12:07 pm

Except 10bit prores, all other features you mention are part of any small camera today. Back in 2012, these features that the original bmpcc packed, didn't exist in most cameras. But now, a lot of them have them, and as time goes by, even cheaper cameras will get 10bit codecs. So, it's not sensible for BMD to try to compete on a similar cheap product (where profit is tight) with Canon, Fuji, or Sony, especially since BMD lacks IBIS and AF. There's no money to be made in that market space, competing with these other companies that are more consumer-oriented. So it's best to keep itself into a more cinema-oriented, larger camera market, where it still has an advantage, and it can pack more pro features on the larger body -- something that competitors won't do for the same price.

If you want something like that today, the Panasonic G9 cost just $900 and it does 10bit 4:2:2 internally with V-Log L, and it has the added benefits of IBIS, and better AF than before (new firmware released last May). And if you want a really tiny camera, the Sony ZV-1 is a good camera for what it is (8bit).
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Nick Heydon

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostThu Jun 17, 2021 12:15 pm

Have you looked at the Sigma FP? Basically exactly what you're asking for. Add a Video Assist and you even have braw.
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Steve Golding

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostThu Jun 17, 2021 11:35 pm

Thanks for the replies.

Eugenia Loli wrote:If you want something like that today, the Panasonic G9 cost just $900 and it does 10bit 4:2:2 internally with V-Log L, and it has the added benefits of IBIS, and better AF than before (new firmware released last May). And if you want a really tiny camera, the Sony ZV-1 is a good camera for what it is (8bit).


I understand exactly what you are saying Eugenia. The Panasonic G9 looks good, so does the G100, and the Sony ZV-1. Some research to be done I think.

Nick Heydon wrote:Have you looked at the Sigma FP? Basically exactly what you're asking for. Add a Video Assist and you even have braw.


I have followed the Sigma fp with interest since it was announced, but feel that it does not live up to it's price point. the new one, the fp L seems even worse for video. Still I will continue on my quest.

Steve.
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Brad Hurley

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostThu Jun 17, 2021 11:52 pm

Of course, if you don't actually need 4K you can go back to the original Pocket. Plenty of people are still shooting with it and demand is pretty hot on the used market. You can use a viewfinder (like the Zacuto one) or an external monitor instead of the LCD.

Someone recently posted this short commercial last week, shot on the original BMPCC with the little Panasonic 14mm pancake lens and a vintage zoom:

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Steve Golding

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostFri Jun 18, 2021 12:27 am

Yes Brad, I agree, and I do use my original Pocket all the time. I just feel it's getting a little long in the tooth and a bit frustrating with its faults, at some point a replacement will be required. Modern electronics do not last forever!

Steve
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Kim Janson

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostFri Jun 18, 2021 6:09 am

The micro cameras are more an unique area where BMD excels. Just make them with body that does not need gage and conducts the heat to the bottom and top of the camera, with full camera control with simple serial interface and it will find many uses. ..and it fits much better pocket than the pocket camera :)
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Frank2021

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostFri Jun 18, 2021 12:03 pm

After buying a BMPCC4k, I wanted to sell my Canon XC10. But I didn't do that, because the usability of the XC10 is high and the usability of the BMPCC4k is low. To get a proper camera from the BMPCC4k you have to add a large battery, a bright monitor and neutral density filters for each lens. Now you have a monster with cables in your hand or on the gimbal. The XC10 doesn't need any of that. Well the 4k quality is not very good and you cannot change lenses. For this you have a 10x zoom lens that surpasses all of the 10x MFT lenses that have been tested with.
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AlwaysWritePat

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostFri Jun 18, 2021 1:17 pm

realistically anything with swappable lenses arent going to fit in your pocket. But it sounds like you want a sigma fp or fx3
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drknsss

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostFri Jun 18, 2021 7:20 pm

AN OG Pocket camera the same size with braw as the only recording option would be a no-brainer for lots of people who want a 2-3rd Camera, a backup camera, or a crash cam. I love hearing people saying how Netflix asked Red to make a replacement for GoPros so they made the Komodo :D :D :D !!!!

A updated raw camera the size of the OG Pocket with a waterproof cover is THE gorpo replacement for me !!!!
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Patrick Spectra

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 12:03 pm

Get a GoPro 9. 5k and fits in your pocket lol


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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 3:56 pm

Steve Golding wrote:Could we please have a simple small Pocket camera that can be carried around with a minimum for fuss.


We already do, and it can also make calls, play games, give us driving directions, even pay for stuff!

Seriously, what are you asking for exactly? I assume you're not happy with your phone camera because of the size of the sensor? Guess what, large sensors (at least m4/3 I assume) take up space, require appropriate lens flange distance and consume way more power.

People seem to have this weird selective memory about the original Blackmagic Pocket, well I worked with it pretty extensively and here's what I remember: Battery lasted maybe 20 minutes on a good day, ISO range was pretty limited, connectors were flimsy and the micro HDMI output would break just by looking at it, mics were crap, you really had to rig it or put it on a tripod if you wanted to shoot anything since there was no way to hold it steadily. I also was never crazy about the color science and image quality, I know there are people who seem to think it was amazing but I don't get it. By comparison the original Blackmagic 2.5K Cinema Camera's color science was much better IMHO (still not as good as what we have today).

As people have pointed out already, buy a Sigma fp if you want a smaller form factor. You can find one on eBay slightly used for around $1200 nowadays. However be warned -- it still won't fit in your pocket!
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John Brawley

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 4:20 pm

What decent camera fits in a pocket ?

Unless you go for a tiny sensor and fixed lenses, nothing will. The micro cinema camera with the right lens could fit in a pocket I guess? But it won't have screen.

I mean we have pocket battleships. Do they fit in pockets? Pocket rockets aren't cars that fit in pockets. Pocket doors don't fit in your pocket either.


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carlomacchiavello

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Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pockets?

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 5:45 pm

Change your jacket with larger pocket

I remember a very nice picture of Robert Rodriguez with large trousers with large pockets where put battery, accessory and more on his book “a rebel without a crew”.

I keep my pocket4k with Panasonic 14-42 powerX pancake in my pouch, but obviously with the limit of internal battery, sd card recording, small zoom factor. When I want a bit more I had large backpack with lenses, pocket6k, xt4 and more… it’s a matter of your desire.


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GalinMcMahon

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostSun Jun 20, 2021 11:50 pm

BM needs a Komodo competitor. I love the pockets but the form factor is amateurish and clunky. Ursas are nice but they're as big as a Volkswagen and unless you get the 12k overkill machine, you're still stuck with a rolling shutter. I really want to stay in the BM family so when it is time to buy, I really hope I can get a cube.
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Steve Golding

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostWed Jun 23, 2021 10:05 am

Looking at the alternatives suggested in this thread has been a real eyeopener. All of these tackle what the BMPCC does badly (Sound, Screen, Batteries, etc), but don't really make a dent on what it does well (10 bit Prores, CDNGRaw recorded internally at a $1000 price point.). The Sigma FP comes closest at its AU$2500 price as long as you stay with HD, but it has a different lens ecosystem to buy into.

If I had to replace it tomorrow I would probably look at a second hand one (AU$1000) I guess. It was ground breaking when launched, and it is still good. Lucky I don't have to make that decision at the moment. Quite like the little SONY though.

Steve
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Brad Hurley

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostWed Jun 23, 2021 10:53 am

Steve Golding wrote:The Sigma FP comes closest at its AU$2500 price as long as you stay with HD, but it has a different lens ecosystem to buy into.


Not necessarily. L-mount is similar to e-mount in the sense that almost every lens can be adapted to it, and there are adapters readily available (even for PL mount cinema lenses). There are likely many Sigma fp shooters who don't own any native L-mount lenses. Same goes for e-mount: I use a Sony A7iii for stills but only own one native e-mount lens; all my other lenses (Minolta SR mount, Nikon F/G mount, and Leica M mount) are adapted.
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Steve Golding

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Re: Please can we have a Pocket camera that fits in our pock

PostWed Jun 23, 2021 12:09 pm

Most of my lenses at the moment are M4/3 and there is no converter to L Mount, so for me that's a new lens ecosystem. For others less of a problem I agree.

Steve

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