Ursa mini G2 or Pocket 6K Pro?

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Sean van Berlo

  • Posts: 374
  • Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:33 am
  • Location: The Netherlands

Ursa mini G2 or Pocket 6K Pro?

PostTue Jun 22, 2021 12:27 pm

I'm looking for an upgrade to my Pocket 4K (which I love and which has served me very well). The lack of updates for the G2 seriously makes me hold off on buying one because it makes it feel like an end-of-life product. It also feels like the 6K Pro approaches 99% of the G2 its features (and bests it in some way) for less than half the price currently. What are you guys thought on this?
Offline
User avatar

timbutt2

  • Posts: 1874
  • Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:32 am

Re: Ursa mini G2 or Pocket 6K Pro?

PostTue Jun 22, 2021 12:44 pm

I have both. I will reach for my G2 more. It has more of the features I desire with the slightly larger sensor, higher frame rates, faster sensor readout for reduced rolling shutter, interchangeable lens mount, SDI Outputs and Inputs, amazing EVF, and a battery mount for either V-Mount or Gold Mount Batteries with a P-Tap. It also has the regular sized XLR inputs, but that might not necessarily be a selling point. It definitely has a nicer EVF.

Now, it is a two year old camera with an older sensor. So the 12K definitely shows the limited life left. It also has been neglected with updates. Hopefully it gets some updates soon including Gen 5 Color Science and the expanded frame guides including custom frame guides. But it still has been a very solid update for me.

The EVF is also now a 5+ year old design. It could use a bit of an update probably. I feel like the next generation UMP design update will also see an update to the URSA Viewfinder in both design and features. This will likely be a Gen 2 12K sensor with these updates. I've previously stated elsewhere what updates I want to see in the body of the UMP and what features I would like to see.

So, my preference is for the UMP. But the Pocket Pro is very nice. I did the Wooden Camera PL Modification so it can be a nice little B-Cam to my UMP. I will use the right tool for the job. And, in general the UMP is a better ergonomic design for me.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, Pocket 6K Pro, Pocket 6K, & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Mid 2020) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
Offline

John Brawley

  • Posts: 3074
  • Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:57 am
  • Location: Los Angeles California

Re: Ursa mini G2 or Pocket 6K Pro?

PostTue Jun 22, 2021 4:05 pm

Are you buying a camera based on "updates" or what it can do ?

They aren't even close as far as cameras in my view.

The biggest difference is the sensor itself. The dual gain sensor has a VERY fast rolling shutter compared to the 6KPro. It's hard to describe how much faster it is in comparison.

It's faster than your 4K currently is. Your 4K is ALSO faster than the 6K Pro. So the 6K Pro is slower, more noticeable rolling shutter compared to your current camera.

I think this is the biggest reason to choose the G2. If you do a lot of handheld or movement, then you will see a difference.

The G2 of course is also a very different form factor and also has higher maximum frame rates too.

Obviously the Pocket has a different form factor and is smaller. Really the best thing might be to have both because they both do different jobs well.

JB
John Brawley ACS
Cinematographer
Currently - Los Angeles
Offline
User avatar

Adam Langdon

  • Posts: 492
  • Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:15 pm
  • Location: Ohio USA

Re: Ursa mini G2 or Pocket 6K Pro?

PostTue Jun 22, 2021 4:33 pm

if my UMP G2 broke, I'd go replace it.
if my P6K Pro broke, i'd buy a used UMP G2, haha.

Both have excellent image quality, but the G2 is something special: almost no rolling shutter, 15 stops of Dynamic Range, 120fps in 2:4:1 (which i haven't found a need for yet).

The P6KPro does have better low-light performance. It makes a great B-cam when shooting interviews and such.
Ursa Mini Pro G2 - Pocket 6K Pro - Vintage Russian Glass - Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 - SLR Magic APO Microprimes (w/ Tokina 17mm f3.5 RMC)
Offline

Sean van Berlo

  • Posts: 374
  • Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:33 am
  • Location: The Netherlands

Re: Ursa mini G2 or Pocket 6K Pro?

PostWed Jun 23, 2021 8:18 am

Appreciate the feedback very much! It's more that the lack of updates make me worry that there's a G3 in the pipeline, and I would very much not like spending 10k on camera gear only for it to be redundant six months later.
Offline
User avatar

timbutt2

  • Posts: 1874
  • Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:32 am

Re: Ursa mini G2 or Pocket 6K Pro?

PostWed Jun 23, 2021 5:27 pm

Sean van Berlo wrote:Appreciate the feedback very much! It's more that the lack of updates make me worry that there's a G3 in the pipeline, and I would very much not like spending 10k on camera gear only for it to be redundant six months later.

The G3 is out. It's the UMP12K. And, I think it's safe to say that the 12K is the definitive UMP sensor from here on out, So the the next generation URSA Mini Pro will be the G4. That G4 will likely see UMP body changes while keeping the 12K, but it might be a generation two 12K sensor.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, Pocket 6K Pro, Pocket 6K, & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Mid 2020) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Mid 2018)
Offline

AlwaysWritePat

  • Posts: 20
  • Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:03 pm
  • Real Name: Patrick Bradley

Re: Ursa mini G2 or Pocket 6K Pro?

PostWed Jun 23, 2021 8:03 pm

Realistically, it depends on your type of work and workflow. I currently have 2 G2s so I'm sure you can guess my choice but I also have a 4k and a 6k. Non BM I have a RED Gemini as well as an FX3 (just got yesterday to replace my a7s2). Each one is specific to a different form of work I do, and for specific reasons.

G2 strictly narrative A&B Cams. P4K/P6K is for branded work and local commercial ads. RED for those bigger branded commercials and clients who insist on it. The A7S2/FX3 I use for the autofocus on one-man band/gimbal only music videos.

Personally though, I think the G2 is the best camera under 15k on the market. The "old sensor" and "no updates" don't really concern me, the only thing that always concerns me about BMD is the lack of extended warranty. Especially from a company known to have QC issues. The image is second to an Alexa, again IMO and that's an old sensor. The updates are just an addition. If they come with issues like the P4K no thanks. If that concerns you though, the 6kPro is probably your best bet, or wait to see what the next Pocket or G4 will look like.
Offline

WahWay

  • Posts: 440
  • Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:54 am
  • Real Name: Simon Chan

Re: Ursa mini G2 or Pocket 6K Pro?

PostSat Jun 26, 2021 9:24 pm

John Brawley wrote:Are you buying a camera based on "updates" or what it can do ?

They aren't even close as far as cameras in my view.

The biggest difference is the sensor itself. The dual gain sensor has a VERY fast rolling shutter compared to the 6KPro. It's hard to describe how much faster it is in comparison.

It's faster than your 4K currently is. Your 4K is ALSO faster than the 6K Pro. So the 6K Pro is slower, more noticeable rolling shutter compared to your current camera.

I think this is the biggest reason to choose the G2. If you do a lot of handheld or movement, then you will see a difference.

The G2 of course is also a very different form factor and also has higher maximum frame rates too.

Obviously the Pocket has a different form factor and is smaller. Really the best thing might be to have both because they both do different jobs well.

JB


Pocket 6k Pro full sensor rolling shutter is about 19.7ms but at 5.7k crop is about 16.7ms which is about the same as the Pocket 4k.

What about DR difference, do you really see the difference between the UMP G2 and Pocket 6k?

Also latitude? There was a test that compare the Pocket 6k with the 4k and there were about a couple of stops difference in the ability to recover from underexposure in favour of the 6k. How does the latitude of the UMP G2 compare with the Pocket 6k?
Offline

John Brawley

  • Posts: 3074
  • Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:57 am
  • Location: Los Angeles California

Re: Ursa mini G2 or Pocket 6K Pro?

PostSat Jun 26, 2021 9:50 pm

G2 at 4k is about 6ms.

That’s a whole different league.

JB
John Brawley ACS
Cinematographer
Currently - Los Angeles
Offline

WahWay

  • Posts: 440
  • Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:54 am
  • Real Name: Simon Chan

Re: Ursa mini G2 or Pocket 6K Pro?

PostSun Jun 27, 2021 7:53 am

So what are the latitude of the UMP G2? Is it 5.5 stops over and 2.5 stops under?
Offline

WahWay

  • Posts: 440
  • Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:54 am
  • Real Name: Simon Chan

Re: Ursa mini G2 or Pocket 6K Pro?

PostSun Jul 18, 2021 7:42 am

I now have the UM G2. Not done much with it yet but I previousely own the original UM4.6k which bit the dust a few months ago. Image quality wise it looks very similar to the UM4.6k so is this the same sensor with different processor? There is now an ISO 3200 up from ISO 1600 from the old camera. What is noticeably different in the G2 is the reduction of fixed pattern noise in the shadow or darker area that was a real issue with the older camera. Obviousely much lower rolling shutter and feel more confident about using it hand held than the Pocket cameras. The Pocket 6k Pro has a nicer display with Gen5 colour giving it a wider DR profile which I think would benefit the G2 more as it is not a low light camera. As with the original UM4.6k and the old BMCC and BMPCC the tonality in the highlight is much better handled than the current Pocket 6k and 4k.

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Feedfetcher, jerrygladh, Johannes Hoffmann and 26 guests