Lens suggestions please!

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John Bernard

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Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 12:06 am

I'm a videographer/documentary film maker. I will be buying the BMPCC 6K Pro to shoot run and gun hand held ONLY films and docs. I will not ever use any kind of gimbal. My rig will be minimal; built in batteries and record to SD cards. I will not use an external screen. I will only add a cage, lens and matbox. I need a lens suggestion. 1. If it is a still lens, it must be parfocal or near parfocal because I don’t have time to refocus everytime I zoom 2. The lens must have image stabilization, unless you think somewhat steady shots can be accomplished with this light rig and a guy not too strong. And I can not afford a cine lens, or handle the extra weight. I would appreciate any personal experiences with a single lens that can do this. Note. I was considering the DZOfilm Pictor lens 20-55(great price) but it's too heavy for me. Thank you.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 5:17 am

SD cards are not going to be reliable. The Pocket 6K is not the ca era I would choose for the project you describe, very limited Canon mount zooms that are parfocal, and the ones that are, are Cine type manual zooms, no image stabilization. You might consider either the Pocket 4K, or the Nikon Z6 (whose zoom lenses can be stabilized and are parfocal in performance. I would use CFast cards with the Pocket cameras, and the CF card in the Nikon, for their data reliability.
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WahWay

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 5:39 am

If you are using the Pocket 6k Pro for handheld run and gun you need to get the viewfinder to add another point of stabalization. The pocket cameras has notoriously bad rolling shutter which does not goes well with the hand held form factor unless you shoot in 2k/1080p crop mode.
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 6:05 am

Denny Smith wrote:SD cards are not going to be reliable. The Pocket 6K is not the ca era I would choose for the project you describe, very limited Canon mount zooms that are parfocal, and the ones that are, are Cine type manual zooms, no image stabilization. You might consider either the Pocket 4K, or the Nikon Z6 (whose zoom lenses can be stabilized and are parfocal in performance. I would use CFast cards with the Pocket cameras, and the CF card in the Nikon, for their data reliability.
Cheers


Thanks for your reply. I really like the color science of the BMPCC 6k pro. I don't like the colors on the canon, sony or nikon cameras, although I know Canons are used by VICE news and other documentary channels like the one I intend to create. I have experience shooting with Super35 film and digital cinema cameras and don't need full frame cameras. Also, I must have built in NDs, since I won't have time to swap filters in a mat box. What other s35 camera do you suggest for around the same price as the BMPCC 6k pro?.

What about a lens like the Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 DG OS HSM ART lens for Canon EF?. I saw a review that says it's parfocal. Or the Canon 17-55 2.8 IS also said to be parfocal? 2.8 is suitable for most situations.

Also BlackMagic says SD cards are reliable but if you had better experience with Cfast I can extend my budget a bit. I need my rig to be supper light. Any other recommendation would be appreciated.
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 6:07 am

WahWay wrote:If you are using the Pocket 6k Pro for handheld run and gun you need to get the viewfinder to add another point of stabalization. The pocket cameras has notoriously bad rolling shutter which does not goes well with the hand held form factor unless you shoot in 2k/1080p crop mode.


Thanks. That is a good point. I intend to shoot 6k on a 4k timeline and deliver in 2k. ANy other suggestions highly appreciated.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 6:18 am

WahWay wrote:If you are using the Pocket 6k Pro for handheld run and gun you need to get the viewfinder to add another point of stabalization. The pocket cameras has notoriously bad rolling shutter which does not goes well with the hand held form factor unless you shoot in 2k/1080p crop mode.


I don’t know why you would say that the pockets are having notoriously bad rolling shutter?
It’s not like you are getting jello footage from them. While the PCC6K has a bit slower readout than the PCC4K, I’ve been shooting handheld with the PCC4K for 3 years and the rolling shutter has never been a problem.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 6:24 am

John Bernard wrote:
Also BlackMagic says SD cards are reliable but if you had better experience with Cfast I can extend my budget a bit. I need my rig to be supper light. Any other recommendation would be appreciated.


CFast cards do have much better write speeds and are cheaper than fast SD cards.
Saying "Thx for help!" is not a crime.
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 7:30 am

Robert Niessner wrote:
WahWay wrote:If you are using the Pocket 6k Pro for handheld run and gun you need to get the viewfinder to add another point of stabalization. The pocket cameras has notoriously bad rolling shutter which does not goes well with the hand held form factor unless you shoot in 2k/1080p crop mode.


I don’t know why you would say that the pockets are having notoriously bad rolling shutter?
It’s not like you are getting jello footage from them. While the PCC6K has a bit slower readout than the PCC4K, I’ve been shooting handheld with the PCC4K for 3 years and the rolling shutter has never been a problem.


While I do move fast due to the nature of my work, I never flash pan (fast panning) so I don't see why any rolling shutter would be too noticeable?. I worked with the Ursa mini 4.6k first gen., and if the rolling shutter is as good I think I should be okay for documentary handheld work? Imagine just BMPCC 6k Pro, light zoom lens(20-55 etc) with image stabilization, internal NP-F570 battery, and CF card, nothing else. What do you think?
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 7:31 am

Robert Niessner wrote:
John Bernard wrote:
Also BlackMagic says SD cards are reliable but if you had better experience with Cfast I can extend my budget a bit. I need my rig to be supper light. Any other recommendation would be appreciated.


CFast cards do have much better write speeds and are cheaper than fast SD cards.


Yes, Thank you!. I didn't know they were cheaper. I did some more research and I will get a CFast card. Looking at the SanDisk 128GB Extreme PRO CFast 2.0 Memory Card. Unless you recommend something else. Thank you.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 8:38 am

The most recommended around here is the Angelbird (I use them too).
But as long as a card is on BM's list, you should be fine.
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
Resolve Studio 17.2.2 and Fusion Studio 17.2.1, macOS 11.5
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Mark Foster

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 8:43 am

cMP 5.1 2x3,46/96GB/2x2TB 860pro/4x4TB HGST/SSD7101A 4x2TB 970evoplus/HP1344/BMD4k/Radeon VII
macOS 11.2.3

BMPCC 6k pro (7.3.1)
BMPCC 4k (7.3)+ MB speedbooster ultra 0.71 (3.60)
resolve studio 17.3.1
desktop video 12.1
intensity pro 4k
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 9:54 am

I’d recommend getting at least a 256Gb card. If you plan to shoot in BRAW (which I’d recommend for your type of work), you will fill up a card in a day.

You can download a calc sheet I made to calculate the data rates and space for your needs.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=118151


For your orientation:
This dealer has the Angelbird 1TB for € 500 before tax
https://www.videodata.de/shop/products/ ... -1-TB.html

or the 256GB card for € 228
https://www.videodata.de/shop/products/ ... 56-GB.html
Saying "Thx for help!" is not a crime.
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Robert Niessner
LAUFBILDkommission
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Frank Engel

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 10:42 am

Just to toss it out there, a larger sensor such as that on the 6K Pro is going to have a shallower depth of field, which means it will be harder to keep in focus than a camera with a smaller sensor, and also the image stabilization is likely to be less effective.

You might want to consider a camera with a smaller sensor, whether the pocket 4K or some other brand. Take a look at the OM-D EM-1 series cameras from Olympus perhaps? They have weather-sealed options with some fairly good lenses in their lineup, and the in-body image stabilization will be more effective than what you can expect from one in the lens; you can also switch to autofocus when you need it. Granted the bit rate will be lower and it certainly won't match against BRAW, but the more practical concerns with the style of shooting you are talking about are likely to go much easier.

In any case I would argue that the larger sensors are best left to shots you have time to set up for.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 2:23 pm

Second this. The larger sensor needs larger and heavier lenses. I doubt that you'll see much of a difference of image quality under hand-held doc conditions.
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
Resolve Studio 17.2.2 and Fusion Studio 17.2.1, macOS 11.5
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 6:43 pm

Uli Plank wrote:The most recommended around here is the Angelbird (I use them too).
But as long as a card is on BM's list, you should be fine.


Thanks I'll take a look much appreciated.
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 6:51 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:I’d recommend getting at least a 256Gb card. If you plan to shoot in BRAW (which I’d recommend for your type of work), you will fill up a card in a day.

You can download a calc sheet I made to calculate the data rates and space for your needs.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=118151


For your orientation:
This dealer has the Angelbird 1TB for € 500 before tax
https://www.videodata.de/shop/products/ ... -1-TB.html

or the 256GB card for € 228
https://www.videodata.de/shop/products/ ... 56-GB.html


This is incredibly helpful. Thank you so much. I will get the Angel bird card too. And the chart is awesome. ANy help I could get with lenses for this camera would be much appreciated. Thanks again.
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 6:52 pm

Mark Foster wrote:the lists

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=95785


Thank you!!!!.
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 6:56 pm

Uli Plank wrote:Second this. The larger sensor needs larger and heavier lenses. I doubt that you'll see much of a difference of image quality under hand-held doc conditions.


Thank you so much. My clients are looking for "filmic" look, I know that is subjective but the shallow depth of field is important. Also the ND filters are important.
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WahWay

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 7:46 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:[

I don’t know why you would say that the pockets are having notoriously bad rolling shutter?
It’s not like you are getting jello footage from them. While the PCC6K has a bit slower readout than the PCC4K, I’ve been shooting handheld with the PCC4K for 3 years and the rolling shutter has never been a problem.


I'm suprise you did'nt know or not experience rolling shutter being an issue. Maybe you got steady hands?
Its an issue with the BMPCC4k and I definately see it more shooting at normal frame rate speed at 4k, its even worse with Pocket 6k at 6k.
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WahWay

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 7:57 pm

John Bernard wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:[

I don’t know why you would say that the pockets are having notoriously bad rolling shutter?
It’s not like you are getting jello footage from them. While the PCC6K has a bit slower readout than the PCC4K, I’ve been shooting handheld with the PCC4K for 3 years and the rolling shutter has never been a problem.


While I do move fast due to the nature of my work, I never flash pan (fast panning) so I don't see why any rolling shutter would be too noticeable?. I worked with the Ursa mini 4.6k first gen., and if the rolling shutter is as good I think I should be okay for documentary handheld work? Imagine just BMPCC 6k Pro, light zoom lens(20-55 etc) with image stabilization, internal NP-F570 battery, and CF card, nothing else. What do you think?


Rolling shutter on Pocket 6k at 6k is noticebly worse than UM4.6k at 4.6k. Also the form factor of the Ursa Mini for me provide better stability than the Pocket cameras and if you are planning to not rig your Pocket camera and go hand held only shooting at 6k you will likely encounter rolling shutter problems. Any minor shakes and focus pulling that moves the camera body need to be careful. Lens with built-in IS being very critical. You need to use the Viewfinder to help steady the amount of movement in the body.
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 9:52 pm

WahWay wrote:
John Bernard wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:[

I don’t know why you would say that the pockets are having notoriously bad rolling shutter?
It’s not like you are getting jello footage from them. While the PCC6K has a bit slower readout than the PCC4K, I’ve been shooting handheld with the PCC4K for 3 years and the rolling shutter has never been a problem.


While I do move fast due to the nature of my work, I never flash pan (fast panning) so I don't see why any rolling shutter would be too noticeable?. I worked with the Ursa mini 4.6k first gen., and if the rolling shutter is as good I think I should be okay for documentary handheld work? Imagine just BMPCC 6k Pro, light zoom lens(20-55 etc) with image stabilization, internal NP-F570 battery, and CF card, nothing else. What do you think?


Rolling shutter on Pocket 6k at 6k is noticebly worse than UM4.6k at 4.6k. Also the form factor of the Ursa Mini for me provide better stability than the Pocket cameras and if you are planning to not rig your Pocket camera and go hand held only shooting at 6k you will likely encounter rolling shutter problems. Any minor shakes and focus pulling that moves the camera body need to be careful. Lens with built-in IS being very critical. You need to use the Viewfinder to help steady the amount of movement in the body.


Thanks for your reply. I'm don't have super steady hands and I hear you. I also heard that shooting 5.7K on the BMPCC 6K pro helps with rolling shutter?. And I will be getting a lens with built in IS. I'm still asking here for any recommendations about a lens if anyone can please help.
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 9:59 pm

I'm surprised people are steering me away from the BMPCC 6k pro. Here is a video that reflects the type of documentary work I'm trying to do. This guy doesn't use a gymbal and a very minimal rig. Please advice.
youtube.com/watch?v=tOGrS3o1EuQ&t=4s
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timbutt2

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostWed Jul 14, 2021 12:32 am

I've been using my DZOFilm Vespids and Pictor 20-55 on my Pocket 6K Pro since I did the Wooden Camera PL Modification. It's a nice combo. Personally I don't find the weight to be that bad with the Pictor 20-55. The Vespid Primes are perfect weight wise.

I'm using the Blackmagic Battery Grip and the Blackmagic EVF. I'll likely be ordering the Tilta P6KPro Cage down the road. I just had to order some replacement parts for my Steadicam so the cage is a Wish List item for now. I have the Tilta Mini Matte Box and the Mini Follow Focus already since I have the Tilta Cage for the Pocket 6K. Those are good. Tilta is a good brand and make good products. My only complaint has to do with the follow focuses and the direction they pull for near or far focus. The follow focuses are not reversible, although the Tilta Nucleus M you can choose which direction you want. I digress from the follow focus...

But as far as rigging the P6KPro with a cage like the Tilta and having rails for a follow focus and having a matte box you'll find that the DZOFilm Pictor 20-55mm isn't that bad on it for weight. And, I really love my DZOFilm lenses. Just a heads up the price is about to go up.
IMG_3376.jpeg
DZOFilm Lenses Price Change
IMG_3376.jpeg (266.76 KiB) Viewed 4853 times
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Cameras: URSA Mini Pro G2, Pocket 6K Pro, Pocket 6K, & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
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Robert Castiglione

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostWed Jul 14, 2021 5:10 am

I have to chime in on the rolling shutter issue on bmpcc 4k. I have used bmpcc 4k extensively on numerous projects shoulder mounted and I just dont see the problem for real world applications. I am not into whip pans so maybe it is an issue for that particular technique. Otherwise, it is just not presenting any kind of problem for me.
Rob Castiglione
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostWed Jul 14, 2021 6:35 am

Robert Castiglione wrote:I have to chime in on the rolling shutter issue on bmpcc 4k. I have used bmpcc 4k extensively on numerous projects shoulder mounted and I just dont see the problem for real world applications. I am not into whip pans so maybe it is an issue for that particular technique. Otherwise, it is just not presenting any kind of problem for me.


Thank you. DO you have a picture of your shoulder mounted rig and parts? I would really appreciate it.
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostWed Jul 14, 2021 6:49 am

timbutt2 wrote:I've been using my DZOFilm Vespids and Pictor 20-55 on my Pocket 6K Pro since I did the Wooden Camera PL Modification. It's a nice combo. Personally I don't find the weight to be that bad with the Pictor 20-55. The Vespid Primes are perfect weight wise.

I'm using the Blackmagic Battery Grip and the Blackmagic EVF. I'll likely be ordering the Tilta P6KPro Cage down the road. I just had to order some replacement parts for my Steadicam so the cage is a Wish List item for now. I have the Tilta Mini Matte Box and the Mini Follow Focus already since I have the Tilta Cage for the Pocket 6K. Those are good. Tilta is a good brand and make good products. My only complaint has to do with the follow focuses and the direction they pull for near or far focus. The follow focuses are not reversible, although the Tilta Nucleus M you can choose which direction you want. I digress from the follow focus...

But as far as rigging the P6KPro with a cage like the Tilta and having rails for a follow focus and having a matte box you'll find that the DZOFilm Pictor 20-55mm isn't that bad on it for weight. And, I really love my DZOFilm lenses. Just a heads up the price is about to go up.
IMG_3376.jpeg


Thanks so much for your input. So you prefer Tilta cage better than SmallRig? I was originally looking into the the DZOFilm Pictor 20-55mm being the least expensive cine zoom I could find, but was worried about the weight and no image stabilization?. The total weight with lens, camera and internal battery, and cage would be about 7.5 pounds in my hands shooting handheld. I tested myself handling a 7.5 pound weight and I lasted about 4-5 minutes shooting holding a similar weight. Maybe the viewfinder will help? And you think rails and follow focus and mat box don't add too much more weight? Do you know when the lens is going up on price? It is already too expensive for me. The DZOFilm Pictor 20-55mm is the perfect focal range for my work, and I only focus manually. I'll like to get it before it goes up. Do you think a lighter IS type near parfocal photo lens like sigma or canon would be better as far as preventing shaking, or the extra weight of the DZOFilm Pictor 20-55mm would help me? Thanks for any feedback.
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostWed Jul 14, 2021 6:55 am

timbutt2 wrote:I've been using my DZOFilm Vespids and Pictor 20-55 on my Pocket 6K Pro since I did the Wooden Camera PL Modification. It's a nice combo. Personally I don't find the weight to be that bad with the Pictor 20-55. The Vespid Primes are perfect weight wise.

I'm using the Blackmagic Battery Grip and the Blackmagic EVF. I'll likely be ordering the Tilta P6KPro Cage down the road. I just had to order some replacement parts for my Steadicam so the cage is a Wish List item for now. I have the Tilta Mini Matte Box and the Mini Follow Focus already since I have the Tilta Cage for the Pocket 6K. Those are good. Tilta is a good brand and make good products. My only complaint has to do with the follow focuses and the direction they pull for near or far focus. The follow focuses are not reversible, although the Tilta Nucleus M you can choose which direction you want. I digress from the follow focus...

But as far as rigging the P6KPro with a cage like the Tilta and having rails for a follow focus and having a matte box you'll find that the DZOFilm Pictor 20-55mm isn't that bad on it for weight. And, I really love my DZOFilm lenses. Just a heads up the price is about to go up.
IMG_3376.jpeg


One more question please. Why did you have to do the Wooden Camera PL Modification? I understand that the
DZOFilm 20-55 Pictor comes with both the EF and PL mounts?
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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostWed Jul 14, 2021 7:13 am

timbutt2 wrote:I've been using my DZOFilm Vespids and Pictor 20-55 on my Pocket 6K Pro since I did the Wooden Camera PL Modification. It's a nice combo. Personally I don't find the weight to be that bad with the Pictor 20-55. The Vespid Primes are perfect weight wise.

I'm using the Blackmagic Battery Grip and the Blackmagic EVF. I'll likely be ordering the Tilta P6KPro Cage down the road. I just had to order some replacement parts for my Steadicam so the cage is a Wish List item for now. I have the Tilta Mini Matte Box and the Mini Follow Focus already since I have the Tilta Cage for the Pocket 6K. Those are good. Tilta is a good brand and make good products. My only complaint has to do with the follow focuses and the direction they pull for near or far focus. The follow focuses are not reversible, although the Tilta Nucleus M you can choose which direction you want. I digress from the follow focus...

But as far as rigging the P6KPro with a cage like the Tilta and having rails for a follow focus and having a matte box you'll find that the DZOFilm Pictor 20-55mm isn't that bad on it for weight. And, I really love my DZOFilm lenses. Just a heads up the price is about to go up.
IMG_3376.jpeg


Sorry for another question. Can you please tell me which size adapter ring I need for the Tilta Mini Matte Box to adapt to the DZOFilm Pictor 20-55? Do the adapter rings screw onto the DZOFilm Pictor lens' 86mm filter thread or clamp on the 95mm front diameter, I'm confused about this? Much appreciated.
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WahWay

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostWed Jul 14, 2021 7:46 pm

Robert Castiglione wrote:I have to chime in on the rolling shutter issue on bmpcc 4k. I have used bmpcc 4k extensively on numerous projects shoulder mounted and I just dont see the problem for real world applications. I am not into whip pans so maybe it is an issue for that particular technique. Otherwise, it is just not presenting any kind of problem for me.


Yes but you have rigged the BMPCC4k to use it as shoulder mounted and provide an element of stability. The poster wanted to use the camera unrigged and hand held only shooting at 6k. Your experience would be different.
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timbutt2

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostWed Jul 14, 2021 7:51 pm

Let me cover each question from your three posts.

1) Tilta over SmallRig? I've been using Tilta products for years. It's more to do with the brand I know and the fact that I already have a lot of their gear so for seamlessness I can swap some parts with the gear. For example the top handle I have for the Pocket 6K cage can be used on the Pocket 6K Pro cage.

2) There is no image stabilization on cinema lenses, and the DZOFilm Pictor Zoom doesn't have image stabilization.

3) Considering I shot handheld with a Super 16mm Film Camera (ARRI SRII with either Canon 8-64mm or Zeiss 12-120) back in the day and have done handheld with my URSA Mini Pro G2 the weight is not an issue for me.

4) The lens goes up in price July 31st, and after that date it will be higher.

5) I've always found weight helps me with stability in handheld work. That's why I do love using my UMPG2 handheld because it balances well on my shoulder. Especially with the DZOFilm Pictor Zooms. I'll share a link to a video that I did a lot of handheld run and gun for an event with that set up.



6) I did the PL Modification because my DZOFilm Vespid Lens Kit was PL. I didn't feel like buying the EF mounts for those lenses and switching the mounts just to use the lenses on my Pockets. I prefer PL, so keep my UMP configured in PL. So going PL was easier on the P6KPro for me. Now I don't have to constantly switch the mounts on the Pictor Zooms either, and they stay in PL. It was more about my preference. PL is better than EF anyways.

7) Sorry, I'm using the Tilta Mini Matte Box with the Vespids Primes since I can use the 77mm ring adapter. The Pictor are 95mm Outer Diameter so I'm using my bigger Tilta Matte Box on the zooms. It's bigger and heavier as a matte box in total, but when I've fitted a cage it doesn't matter much. The Vespids are 80mm Outer Diameter and I use both matte boxes on those. I prefer the bigger 3 filter Tilta one, especially on my UMP.

Hope this answers some of those questions you had.
"I'm well trained in the art of turning **** to gold." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

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John Bernard

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostWed Jul 14, 2021 11:10 pm

timbutt2 wrote:Let me cover each question from your three posts.

1) Tilta over SmallRig? I've been using Tilta products for years. It's more to do with the brand I know and the fact that I already have a lot of their gear so for seamlessness I can swap some parts with the gear. For example the top handle I have for the Pocket 6K cage can be used on the Pocket 6K Pro cage.

2) There is no image stabilization on cinema lenses, and the DZOFilm Pictor Zoom doesn't have image stabilization.

3) Considering I shot handheld with a Super 16mm Film Camera (ARRI SRII with either Canon 8-64mm or Zeiss 12-120) back in the day and have done handheld with my URSA Mini Pro G2 the weight is not an issue for me.

4) The lens goes up in price July 31st, and after that date it will be higher.

5) I've always found weight helps me with stability in handheld work. That's why I do love using my UMPG2 handheld because it balances well on my shoulder. Especially with the DZOFilm Pictor Zooms. I'll share a link to a video that I did a lot of handheld run and gun for an event with that set up.



6) I did the PL Modification because my DZOFilm Vespid Lens Kit was PL. I didn't feel like buying the EF mounts for those lenses and switching the mounts just to use the lenses on my Pockets. I prefer PL, so keep my UMP configured in PL. So going PL was easier on the P6KPro for me. Now I don't have to constantly switch the mounts on the Pictor Zooms either, and they stay in PL. It was more about my preference. PL is better than EF anyways.

7) Sorry, I'm using the Tilta Mini Matte Box with the Vespids Primes since I can use the 77mm ring adapter. The Pictor are 95mm Outer Diameter so I'm using my bigger Tilta Matte Box on the zooms. It's bigger and heavier as a matte box in total, but when I've fitted a cage it doesn't matter much. The Vespids are 80mm Outer Diameter and I use both matte boxes on those. I prefer the bigger 3 filter Tilta one, especially on my UMP.

Hope this answers some of those questions you had.



Thanks so much for taking the time to answer all my questions, Tim. Your handheld video looks very good. This is the style I shoot too. Unfortunately I had the first UM 4.6k and had to sale it because it was too heavy for me for this kind of event and doc videos. Hopefully my back and hands can handle the BMPCC 6k Pro. Getting older doesn't help. Cheers.
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Adam Langdon

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostThu Jul 15, 2021 5:26 pm

I would say, for RnG stuff on a Pocket 6K Pro (which is/would be a great camera):
Canon 17-55mm f2.8 IS
Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 VC

The latter being my go-to for about 3 years now.
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Robert Castiglione

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostFri Jul 16, 2021 4:09 am

In response to the post requesting a picture of the rig. This is one of my shoulder mounted rigs. Well balanced which means that you can film with it comfortably for ages. Here you can see it with an early Nikon 50mm from the 1960s which I used last night on a shoot. I focus straight off the barrel of the lens because I like the physicality and directness. Sound is Sanken short gun CS 1 (now discontinued but you can get them used) with a Fethead preamp which boosts the sound by I think 18 db so that you dont have to rely so heavily on the camera's preamps. The rode wireless Go with a good quality lav is surprisingly good. The evf is a zacuto Kamelion. The whole set up is quite light (compared to cameras I used to shoot with such as Red). Hope that helps.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostFri Jul 16, 2021 8:19 am

But is this really that much lighter than an UMP?
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
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Robert Castiglione

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostSat Jul 17, 2021 3:14 am

Uli that is a good point but I think it may be significally lighter. I haven't weighed but it is surprisingly light. It certainly makes a difference as I get older. Luckily I have not developed back problems like a number of other cinematographers I know.

I have heard that the Ursa is quite dense and heavy but I have never used one. How much does the Ursa with battery viewfinder weigh I wonder?

Rob
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Uli Plank

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostSat Jul 17, 2021 8:52 am

I have back problems. I'd still use our UMP for serious work, where we'd normally use it on sticks and have a team, so I don't need to schlepp it myself. But out in the wild on my own, it's a Sony A7S3. Sometimes I'd take a second body in my bag for landscape stills in high resolution.
If I need good sound, I'd take friend with me, who is focusing on operating a tiny recorder and the microphone.
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
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Robert Castiglione

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostSun Jul 18, 2021 2:33 am

Of course one could always do better but I am satisfied with the image quality of the bmpcc 4k at the moment ( I look forward to future bmpcc 4k offerings). The lightweight convenience factor together with the excellent image quality are a compelling combination and a good balance for me. A bit more dynamic range would be welcome. At present I cant see myself going to a heavier camera.

Is the Sony a good camera for film work? Are you happy with the image quality? I dont know anything about the codecs that these cameras use and am a bit wary of the compression.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostSun Jul 18, 2021 7:43 am

If you have enough time to spend in post, I'd recommend the BM Pockets with their excellent BRAW.
If you need something very compact with excellent autofocus, I dare to see the Sony as an alternative. This is not the first iteration of that camera, but the third, and Sony did it right this time.
You have a choice of several codecs, the best ones are H.265 in 422 and 10 bit, both in GOP or I-frame encoding. They offer decent grading robustness in Slog-2, but you need a computer which can decode these formats in hardware. The cheapest Mac mini M1 can, for example.
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
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David Cherniack

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostSun Jul 18, 2021 1:05 pm

Uli Plank wrote:If you have enough time to spend in post, I'd recommend the BM Pockets with their excellent BRAW.
If you need something very compact with excellent autofocus, I dare to see the Sony as an alternative. This is not the first iteration of that camera, but the third, and Sony did it right this time.
You have a choice of several codecs, the best ones are H.265 in 422 and 10 bit, both in GOP or I-frame encoding. They offer decent grading robustness in Slog-2, but you need a computer which can decode these formats in hardware. The cheapest Mac mini M1 can, for example.


But another thing to be aware of with the Sony DSLRs vs Blackmagic that may impact decisions....they don't shoot video @ c4k (4096Xxxxx) so if you're distributing in that format you have to enlarge a bit.
David
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Uli Plank

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostSun Jul 18, 2021 9:23 pm

True.
Sony Alphas are doing UHD only. They seem to protect their high-end models, the A7S3 has enough photocells.
Don't approach Resolve with your expectations from other NLEs! They are all different.
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cj-adams

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostMon Jul 26, 2021 11:29 pm

is there any preferences for example if I had a choice between two lens sets ...full frame versus super35 lenses for the 6K - im looking at the two sets from Meike T2.1 cine primes.
Last edited by cj-adams on Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostWed Jul 28, 2021 6:13 pm

After reading this thread, here are my suggestions based on experience with lenses and the Pocket 6K, and other commentaries.

Adam Langdon wrote:I would say, for RnG stuff on a Pocket 6K Pro (which is/would be a great camera):
Canon 17-55mm f2.8 IS
Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 VC

John Bernard wrote:What about a lens like the Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 DG OS HSM ART lens for Canon EF?. I saw a review that says it's parfocal. Or the Canon 17-55 2.8 IS also said to be parfocal? 2.8 is suitable for most situations.

John Bernard wrote:Thanks for your reply. I'm don't have super steady hands and I hear you. I also heard that shooting 5.7K on the BMPCC 6K pro helps with rolling shutter?. And I will be getting a lens with built in IS. I'm still asking here for any recommendations about a lens if anyone can please help.

The Canon, Sigma, and even Tamron still photography zoom lenses mentioned above are all nice lenses and provide some visible stabilization to not so steady hands. I owned them and on a BM Pocket 6K camera, do not assume you will get a stable shoot in a RnG situation, particularly if you are having some movements, even little ones. It doesn't cancel out the shakes at all. The lenses are sharp but not as quite sharp as the Sigma ART 18-35mm. Focus is average but not much of a throw. Overall, they are good walk-about lenses - no cinematic qualities but this has more to do with the cinematographer than the equipment.

Robert Niessner wrote:CFast cards do have much better write speeds and are cheaper than fast SD cards.

Gigabyte for Gigabyte, SD Cards are cheaper than CFast cards. I don't know where I can find a 256Gb fast SD cards that is cheaper than a 256Gb CFast card. However, CFast cards have been going down in prices that you can expect to pay between USD$0.97 to USD$1 per gig on CFast these days. That's fairly good pricing. CFast are, well fast - especially those with fast write speed. Angelbird is also my recommendation.

timbutt2 wrote:I've been using my DZOFilm Vespids and Pictor 20-55 on my Pocket 6K Pro since I did the Wooden Camera PL Modification. It's a nice combo. Personally I don't find the weight to be that bad with the Pictor 20-55. The Vespid Primes are perfect weight wise.

I don't own the DZOFilm glasses but I rented and used them on my Pocket 6K and UMP G2. Like Tim said, it is a nice combo and I like the images the produce. I have them on my wish list. They're not heavy and some weight is a good thing - better focus and stable shots.

I still think the Sigma ART 18-35mm is the best all around lens for any Blackmagic cameras. It does not have stabilization but what feature and quality it gives easily takes care for what it lacks.
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cj-adams

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostThu Jul 29, 2021 2:34 am

Does anyone have experience with the new - Meike s35 primes..vs their Fullframe version? in re to the bmpcc6k?
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostThu Jul 29, 2021 4:19 am

cj-adams wrote:Does anyone have experience with the new - Meike s35 primes..vs their Fullframe version? in re to the bmpcc6k?

There's this video on the Meike 35mm from one of our member posters. I like composing and shooting on 35mm prime. It is my go to focal length. The Meike sounds interesting as it seems to be not as soft as the Roki.
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cj-adams

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Re: Lens suggestions please!

PostThu Jul 29, 2021 2:35 pm

I agree they look great but on the 6k i’m trying to choose between the super35 and the Full Frame versions of these. Future-proofing..etc.

Ellory Yu wrote:
cj-adams wrote:Does anyone have experience with the new - Meike s35 primes..vs their Fullframe version? in re to the bmpcc6k?

There's this video on the Meike 35mm from one of our member posters. I like composing and shooting on 35mm prime. It is my go to focal length. The Meike sounds interesting as it seems to be not as soft as the Roki.

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