Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

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Ellory Yu

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Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostMon Jul 12, 2021 6:08 pm

I've been using the RED Komodo on a couple of film shoot and I really like it, let alone the global shutter. Renting a rigged up Komodo was fine but to own one it can get rather pricy quickly. Also, I'm not sure I like to have the RF mount. It has its pros and cons. Besides a few pluses like the global shutter, I think Blackmagic can actually market something in line and compete with it, keeping the cost down by utilizing the technology and guts of the Pocket 6K Pro. Maybe call it the Micro URSA or just a Micro Cine 6K. The nice thing about the Komodo is the form factor where it was easy to rig or use in different configuration, including on a gimbal and a drone. Brand it as a Micro URSA or a Micro Pocket Cine 6K at around $1995 and it will definitely be a nice addition and a lower priced Komodo alternative.
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Travis Hodgkinson

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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostTue Jul 13, 2021 5:34 am

+1

This is a great suggestion! I'd love to see that box look in something like an URSA MICRO. Makes the camera so much more user friendly. It might cannibalise the Pocket cameras though. I'm sure BMD wouldn't want that.
The KOMODO really grabbed peoples attention hey!
Also Global Shutter would be an incredible addition.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostThu Jul 15, 2021 5:20 am

For starters, take all the features of the pocket 6K pro and shove it into the same form factor as the Komodo and sell it from $1995. It’s that form factor that makes the Komodo so usable and gets attention, albeit overpriced.
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Travis Hodgkinson

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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostThu Jul 15, 2021 5:44 am

Ellory Yu wrote:For starters, take all the features of the pocket 6K pro and shove it into the same form factor as the Komodo and sell it from $1995. It’s that form factor that makes the Komodo so usable and gets attention, albeit overpriced.


Would sell like hotcakes for sure!
Would buy at least 3 to use as great multi-cam options.

Can someone just modify the current 6K Pro? hahaha
Custom camera bodies anyone?
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostThu Jul 15, 2021 3:55 pm

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:Can someone just modify the current 6K Pro? hahaha
Custom camera bodies anyone?


How much would you be willing to pay for that customization? A friend of mine was looking into doing just that, but his research found that most people were unwilling to pay for the modification at a cost that made sense.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostThu Jul 15, 2021 5:05 pm

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:Would sell like hotcakes for sure!
Would buy at least 3 to use as great multi-cam options.

I think so too. I'll definitely get a couple myself for the same reason.

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:
Travis Hodgkinson wrote:Can someone just modify the current 6K Pro? hahaha
Custom camera bodies anyone?


How much would you be willing to pay for that customization? A friend of mine was looking into doing just that, but his research found that most people were unwilling to pay for the modification at a cost that made sense.

Unless you really really want it to be a BM 6K Pro custom but it will be really expensive. Instead, you're better off getting a couple of Komodo.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostThu Jul 15, 2021 10:22 pm

Not sure why BMD haven't jumped on "BOX" train yet. Certainly the amount of requests is through the roof? Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.

I personally can't stand the ergonomics of a DSLR and so tend to avoid the Pockets for that reason. Not that I'm blown away with the ergonomics of the URSA either.

The Komodo just makes sense. Panasonic have done it too.

Hell even if they just used filler material to fill out the space of a square design it would work. Might be a pretty big block though haha!
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Kays Alatrakchi

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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostFri Jul 16, 2021 1:26 am

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:Not sure why BMD haven't jumped on "BOX" train yet. Certainly the amount of requests is through the roof?


I don't think so. Just because some filmmakers seem to like the cube form factor, it doesn't necessarily mean that there's a large enough audience asking for it. I think that wedding and corporate videographers far outnumber the filmmaker customer base for Blackmagic. I think those guys very much like the DSLR form factor.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostFri Jul 16, 2021 3:27 am

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:I think that wedding and corporate videographers far outnumber the filmmaker customer base for Blackmagic. I think those guys very much like the DSLR form factor.


And there lies the problem. BMD should only make cameras for serious filmmakers. Let the DSLR manufacturers make cameras for wedding, corporate videographers, and bloggers. Most of that part of the industry loves their Canons and Sony’s anyway.

I hope we see a price right box form factor from BMD soon.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostFri Jul 16, 2021 8:30 am

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:Not sure why BMD haven't jumped on "BOX" train yet. Certainly the amount of requests is through the roof? Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.

I personally can't stand the ergonomics of a DSLR and so tend to avoid the Pockets for that reason. Not that I'm blown away with the ergonomics of the URSA either.

The Komodo just makes sense. Panasonic have done it too.

Hell even if they just used filler material to fill out the space of a square design it would work. Might be a pretty big block though haha!

The reason why their cameras are shaped like that is Bc the size of their screens. For the pockets it’s like 5in. That’s why it’s so oblong. Ditch the 5in screen then they probably could make it smaller
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostFri Jul 16, 2021 12:56 pm

That makes sense Chris,

I reckon ditch the screens completely and allow users to adapt their own monitors. They're so affordable and would allow the user choice. Even a built in wireless transmission.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostFri Jul 16, 2021 2:47 pm

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:That makes sense Chris,

I reckon ditch the screens completely and allow users to adapt their own monitors. They're so affordable and would allow the user choice. Even a built in wireless transmission.


Totally agree. However the Komodo has a small screen, and so does the Z-Cams. They can do the same.
As I said, just take everything the BMPCC 6K Pro has, except the screen, and pack it in a box form factor body. Without that big screen, they can even save on cost and bring the price down a bit. Just make sure there is an SDI port and XLR port. Enough with the HDMI and 3.5mm audio jack. If someone wants a BMD display, they can buy the Video Assist for it. That way BMD can leverage selling more VA if they want to.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostSat Jul 17, 2021 5:42 pm

Yes please, new micro cameras :D

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Reuben Hustler

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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostSat Jul 17, 2021 10:21 pm

Kim Janson wrote:Yes please, new micro cameras :D



What’s the back you have on the micro? Not seen that before.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostSat Jul 17, 2021 11:29 pm

Whatever it is, I just hope Blackmagic's 2022 camera features a global shutter, continuous autofocus, high frame rates and a good screen. All that under $3.000. Amen.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostSun Jul 18, 2021 2:32 am

Reuben Hustler wrote:
What’s the back you have on the micro? Not seen that before.


It is our interfasing box for the micro cameras. We use 5 pin connector for all the cameras and gimbal.
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The connector provides power and two way communication and has one pin for synchronisation purposes.

The box is also for interfacing, on the video it has a B4 lens connected via the box, to power and control the lens, using the same incoming cable that controls the camera via SBUS in case of Micro Cinema. Micro Studio we control via SDI.

The 3rd connector is for additional stuff like distance finder.

But in sort it is someting we provide for custom builds to do the interfacing.

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Ellory Yu

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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostTue Jul 20, 2021 6:50 am

How many is interested in seeing Blackmagic come up with a box form factor 6K pro? I am.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostTue Jul 20, 2021 7:14 am

Ellory Yu wrote:How many is interested in seeing Blackmagic come up with a box form factor 6K pro? I am.


I'm keen as!
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostFri Jul 23, 2021 2:27 pm

It feels like they could meet the demand for an upgrade to the Micro cameras as the same time.
Obviously would be bigger than the current MSC and MCC but I'm looking for something like that to use as remote cameras for sports filming.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostFri Jul 23, 2021 3:01 pm

How about a body size of 4" x 4" x 4" or somewhere around there? I'm okay with the same DR as the BMPCC 6K Pro, maybe add another stop or 2. If the price can still be maintained, a nice thing to bring back (from the big URSA days) to it is global shutter.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostFri Jul 23, 2021 5:48 pm

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:Not sure why BMD haven't jumped on "BOX" train yet. Certainly the amount of requests is through the roof? Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.


You know they kind of had this box thing BEFORE Komodo and BEFORE ZCAM copied them right ?
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... nemacamera

Sure it would be a nice option to have a 4K+ BRAW version of that camera.

Personally, those that want this form factor should go make a survey / poll. I look at this thread and see it has the 800 views and posts created around the same date have 4000 views.

Those that want this box design are very vocal, but in TOTAL MARKET I'm not sure it's transferring.

Box's SUCK for most things other than gimbal users.

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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostFri Jul 23, 2021 6:31 pm

Many build something like this anyway, I think box form factor would be pretty ideal also for this.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostFri Jul 23, 2021 7:23 pm

Kim Janson wrote:Many build something like this anyway, I think box form factor would be pretty ideal also for this.



Kim you help me make my point thank you !

That’s a pretty awful way to run a camera, no matter if there is a BOX or a DSLR form factor in there.

They bought the wrong form factor.

And why they should get something more like this

https://www.flickr.com/gp/johnbrawley/K828Z1

Or this

https://flic.kr/p/2mcQfR4

When I use a 6k Pro I use it more “naked” like this and it works great for those scenarios.

https://flic.kr/p/2mcXGRU

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Travis Hodgkinson

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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostSat Jul 24, 2021 2:00 am

Sure it would be a nice option to have a 4K+ BRAW version of that camera.


Yeah I'd be happy with that.

I think a lot of BMD users that aren't making big moves in the feature film world, or shooting high end commercials/music videos, want their "RIGS" to look the part. It might help them instil confidence in themselves as well as the customers they do have. When you "RIG" out a pocket cam or something similar in that form factor it very quickly becomes difficult to use. I mean I've seen people use a matte box on set purely because the client is in the same room...When there was no need for it at all. I digress.

I think a box form like the micro would sell like crazy. Sure if it's because of a fad, does BMD even care? I wouldn't. Give the people what they want? I mean sure it might just cost too much in RND. http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pn4i0
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostSat Jul 24, 2021 4:46 am

If the box form was doable at a profit, then BM likely would have already gone there.

In the box form, there would be required significant redesign of the circuit board layout and indwelling ribbon cables that BM uses with permanently connected ancilliaries like switches and sockets.

Then there is the technical issue of the global shutter which BM examined for the 4.6K sensor and abandoned.

Adding one more product similarly specced to the 6K pocket may cannibalise sales of the existing 6K. It could boil down to one or the other but not both.

When it all boils down, the 6K DLSR and box form factors when built out both end up being frankenrigs with all manner of bits and pieces hanging off to get caught on the rose bushes.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostSat Jul 24, 2021 12:48 pm

I thought this was interesting from the 'media' page.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/ ... 0210628-01

At least in the above scenario you don't have to buy a dozen extra monitors to frame up.

I've personally stuck to using the 6K Pro without a cage most of the time. If you aren't prepared to buy the URSA then you can take the rig or leave it behind.

In 2016 when they released the Blackmagic Micro I did use a Wooden Camera handle, external monitor/evf mount, cage, rails and v-mount battery slide. With a matte box on the front and v-mount battery on the back it actually balanced well and was lighter than the URSA Mini with battery, handle etc. With a rig it became much more usable as a super16 primary camera and didn't really look like a total mess IMHO.

You could set it up to use external filters or use a follow focus and put it on your shoulder for a few thousand less than the URSA Mini at that time.

I think that's more or less the draw to the Komodo. It's not the form factor itself, but the cost of the box plus the rigging can be done much lower than ever before in that eco system.

When I tried the Komodo I used most of the Wooden Camera parts I have from the Blackmagic Micro to get it going right away.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostSat Jul 24, 2021 11:28 pm

Ryan Earl wrote:I think that's more or less the draw to the Komodo. It's not the form factor itself, but the cost of the box plus the rigging can be done much lower than ever before in that eco system.

When I tried the Komodo I used most of the Wooden Camera parts I have from the Blackmagic Micro to get it going right away.

Same here Ryan. As a narrative filmmaker, I pretty much have many of the rigging add ons - from monitors, EVF, magic arms, handles, you name it. And I used it on my different cameras, from the URSA to the pocket 6K. I can assure everyone that most if not all the filmmakers I know in Southern California who does this for a living have pretty much the same stash. So when I rented the Komodo for the project, I was using all the rigging attachments that I already owned. That is the draw to the box form factor, be it the Komodo, the mini Alexa (although I will put this in a different category), the Z-cam, the kinefinity, or the Panasonic bg1. I really think this is the way to go for narrative filmmaking and filmmakers. I’m not including the Youtubers as audiences for such cameras. They can all use DSLRs for all I care and there’s so many to choose from. But I am talking about pro filmmakers and I assume that is majority whom Blackmagic is or was appealing to. If not, then we’ll have to do our business with RED, Kini, and others who cater to narrative filmmaking.

robert Hart wrote:If the box form was doable at a profit, then BM likely would have already gone there.

In the box form, there would be required significant redesign of the circuit board layout and indwelling ribbon cables that BM uses with permanently connected ancilliaries like switches and sockets.

Then there is the technical issue of the global shutter which BM examined for the 4.6K sensor and abandoned.

Adding one more product similarly specced to the 6K pocket may cannibalise sales of the existing 6K. It could boil down to one or the other but not both.

When it all boils down, the 6K DLSR and box form factors when built out both end up being frankenrigs with all manner of bits and pieces hanging off to get caught on the rose bushes.

The global shutter and more DR will be a nice touch but it’s more of a want. They don’t need to have that. The pocket design, I think, was a big flaw in the first place so it is about time to cannibalize it. Just like the 6K pro has superseded the 6K, I don’t know if that cannibalize the sales of the P4K an P6K in particular but it doesn’t seem to bother BMD when they decided to make the pro version. I think having different options covers the spectrum of users and needs. The box form factor not only gives the flexibility to build out rigs depending on the use case, but also provides for configurations that the Pocket is an oddity to be used for - one clear and common example is on gimbals.

I don’t know what a frankenrig is when it comes to a box form factor because that is what it is meant for. frankenrig is more apparent for cameras that are not meant to be rig with odd cages - like DSLRs and of course the pocket. My 2 cents and expert opinion of course, from the perspective of a narrative filmmaker who only use these cameras for narrative filmmaking. Everything else, I use my IPhone’s camera. :p
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostSat Jul 31, 2021 6:08 am

Instead of giving us a new cinema camera, they came up with another studio camera. Yikes! Is BMD soon to be no longer a cinematographer's option? Should cinematographers who relied on BMD cameras for narrative and documentary work now jump ship and start looking at other vendors? It feels to be like this. Maybe going to a RED Komodo, Canon C series, or even the Sony F series is the way to go. Hoping I am wrong so I don't have to sell my BMD cameras and get a Komodo in the coming months if their focusing more on broadcast.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostSat Jul 31, 2021 5:45 pm

BM will do what it needs to do in order to stay in business.

If that means getting out of the larger production cameras like the URSAs, then BM will do so. If betting the bank on a new design to go up against the Komodo and others is likely to pay off, then BM will do so.

A customer wishlist will always be subordinate to the company's objectives as it must be. History has shown us that attempts to please everybody often end up with a camel of a product as demonstrated by some horrendous mis-steps in military procurement.

There may have been in the business plan a fixed inventory of 4Ks and 6Ks to be made and no more instead of waiting for a model's sales to decline before halting production.

Whatever next BM comes up with in the future may depend critically on what electronic hardware remains available to manufacturers.

There is a world shortage of some critical electronic bits and pieces. If it goes on too long there may be a leapfrog directly into a next generation of parts and a new R and D required of BM to match them into a new camera.

A significant population of Ford vehicle production is apparently parked outdoors deteriorating in the weather awaiting a critical electronic part which became no longer just-in-time.
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Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostSat Jul 31, 2021 9:07 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:Instead of giving us a new cinema camera, they came up with another studio camera. Yikes! Is BMD soon to be no longer a cinematographer's option? Should cinematographers who relied on BMD cameras for narrative and documentary work now jump ship and start looking at other vendors? It feels to be like this. Maybe going to a RED Komodo, Canon C series, or even the Sony F series is the way to go. Hoping I am wrong so I don't have to sell my BMD cameras and get a Komodo in the coming months if their focusing more on broadcast.

Blackmagic is a diverse company with a range of products for various sectors of the industry. They have a broadcast division, and have been making products for broadcast for a long time. Look no farther than the ATEM.

Just because they focused this large announcement on their new MultiDecks and Studio Cameras does not mean they are abandoning their cinema line of cameras. They worked on this update and needed to announce it. It facilitates a section of business that they also work in.

If the announcement had been all DaVinci Resolve 18 with a bunch of new post-production hardware would you still be posting "Is BMD soon to be no longer a cinematographer's option?" Patience. When Blackmagic is ready to announce new updates to their camera line with new cameras they will do so. This time it was Studio Cameras for Broadcast, next time it might be all Cinema Cameras with updates to the UMP design and updates to the 12K sensor. Or it could next time be a new URSA designed camera that has a 65mm Sensor at 24K resolution.

Now as far as a Micro Camera goes, I like what they did with the original Micro 5-years ago. That needs an update. As for the Komodo. It's fine, but I'm not racing out to buy it.
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Ahmed Ghaffar

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  • Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:29 pm
  • Real Name: Ahmed Ghaffar

Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostSat Aug 14, 2021 5:38 am

Honestly I wish Blackmagic Design would create a middle ground between the URSA line and the Pocket line. A new product that doesn't necessarily follow the ethos of the Pocket cameras by being the cheapest cinema cameras that shoot RAW, as that always comes at a price.

Some of the things I would like to see incorporated in an URSA Micro or New Pocket Cameras would be as follows:

- Much improved dynamic range
- Global Shutter or extremely fast rolling shutter
- A similar interchangeable mount system such as that of the Kinefinity cameras
- Variable Electronic Internal ND system similar to that of the Sony FX6
- Higher frame rates
- Modular form factor

I understand that such features would definitely add to the price of the camera, but some people here wouldn't mind paying a bit more for said features to be incorporated, instead of jumping ship to Red, Sony, or Canon cinema cameras.

It is great what they did with the Pocket cameras, giving us such image quality for such a low price. The Pocket 4K caused such a stir when it was first introduced. However, I believe that now is the time for Blackmagic to step-up to a slightly more high end direction with their cinema cameras.
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Tyler Edwards

  • Posts: 243
  • Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:24 pm

Re: Will there be a Micro URSA in the future?

PostSat Aug 14, 2021 2:04 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:How many is interested in seeing Blackmagic come up with a box form factor 6K pro? I am.


Honestly, if they don't improve rolling shutter, I would pass. The 6K Pro is a fine camera with a great image but the rolling shutter is really bad and I wouldn't invest in another camera system with that limitation.
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