New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

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WahWay

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Sep 18, 2021 1:19 am

John Brawley wrote:The rule I’ve heard is four times the production budget before you’re in profit. (The filmmakers - Studios might be making money sooner but get to claim the costs up to a certain threshold usually and P&A doesn’t include other costs like the cinemas cut for example.)

1 million dollar film needs to take 4 million BO to break even.

30 million dollar film is 120 million in BO to break even.

120 million dollar film needs to pull close to 500 million TO BREAK EVEN. (In reality this is probably bit less at this scale)

This is a pretty consistent rule. (It’s basically about the marketing spend the “P&A” costs)

https://marketingmovies.net/2019/pa-top ... tion-cost/

JB


I did'nt know "Ip Man" 1 & 2 was a loss :o
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Sep 18, 2021 6:46 am

the socialmedia generation does not matter what quality is +g*
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drknsss

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Sep 18, 2021 12:54 pm

WahWay wrote:
John Brawley wrote:The rule I’ve heard is four times the production budget before you’re in profit. (The filmmakers - Studios might be making money sooner but get to claim the costs up to a certain threshold usually and P&A doesn’t include other costs like the cinemas cut for example.)

1 million dollar film needs to take 4 million BO to break even.

30 million dollar film is 120 million in BO to break even.

120 million dollar film needs to pull close to 500 million TO BREAK EVEN. (In reality this is probably bit less at this scale)

This is a pretty consistent rule. (It’s basically about the marketing spend the “P&A” costs)

https://marketingmovies.net/2019/pa-top ... tion-cost/

JB


I did'nt know "Ip Man" 1 & 2 was a loss :o


That new iPhone is perfect for solo creators content creators who need a better camera with mostly automatic features..., like a A7sIII with menus designed by Apple! It's the kind of camera I would use as a backup in a remote location...., I had so many travel plans last year that evaporated....., The 5D had its heyday and it had a specific look that is appropriate for the right kind of narrative and this new iPhone may take that place.

As for the studio financial logic, there is a lot of info out there that makes me think the above 4x break-even statements are not very accurate. In particular, there are many documents regarding funding sources, recoupment schedules that paint a very different picture of what is a break-even film is and what they say it is....,
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Sep 18, 2021 1:07 pm

Financial logic is very complex and simple numbers will never tell you much.
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John Brawley

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Sep 18, 2021 1:23 pm

drknsss wrote:
As for the studio financial logic, there is a lot of info out there that makes me think the above 4x break-even statements are not very accurate. In particular, there are many documents regarding funding sources, recoupment schedules that paint a very different picture of what is a break-even film is and what they say it is....,



Part of my MA was in screen business.

I’m also a producer on a mildly successful cult film that seems to grow every year. I haven’t seen a single cent of profit.

The BO number is kind of like a book best seller list or having a gold album. They are as much marketing numbers as real numbers. It’s a highly manipulated number AND don’t forget that right away the cinema venue itself is usually taking a huge chunk right away before the line of people that take the rest. First there’s the “costs” usually called the p&a for prints and advertising. They’ll also amortise other fixed costs to your film because they can. Then they usually have thresholds for profit as well. They get 100% of the profit until it hits say 20 million and then 20% can go to the next tier of the waterfall….

As I recall the former Disney exec’s analogy….

You know those champagne waterfalls with the glasses you see at weddings? Those at the top make always money. The filmmakers are always at the bottom. As opposed to the studios, sales agents and distributors will always make money even when it’s a flop.

The 4x break even rule is for the films financiers or filmmakers themselves. Which is mostly not the studios or the distributors, agents, sales agents, managers, cinema owners…you get the idea.

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Sep 18, 2021 7:28 pm

Regarding the power of iPhone filmmaking: my guesstimate is that those who overthink the technical aspects less and get off their butts and shoot more, will be richly rewarded*.

As in: well, not actually rewarded per se, as JB has already established, but might get some approving nods and street cred.

At the end of the day, in this type of filmmaking and in the general audience, no one gives a flying kucf about the shifting tone mapping and such.

The iPhone, in this case, and BMD cameras in general, can be thought of as 'enablers'. Talent should be easy to recognise.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Sep 18, 2021 8:59 pm

AndreeMarkefors wrote:The iPhone, in this case, and BMD cameras in general, can be thought of as 'enablers'. Talent should be easy to recognise.


But even at its most rudimentary, filmmaking is an industrial process. You need something to shoot, for one thing. A script is an enabler. Money is an enabler. Good actors are enablers. People who will stick by you are enablers. Even great locations are enablers. But a camera? A tool, no? Most people who are serious won't choose one poorly suited to the task, like an iphone. I think that's all it amounts to.

Long before the digital revolution, Francis Coppola famously remarked that one day, some fat girl in the sticks would make a masterpiece with her dad's camcorder. Well, we're still waiting. It just doesn't work that way. When it came time to produce his own kids' movies, they were elaborate, well-funded 35mm movies with stars.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Sep 18, 2021 9:32 pm

AndreeMarkefors wrote:Regarding the power of iPhone filmmaking: my guesstimate is that those who overthink the technical aspects less and get off their butts and shoot more, will be richly rewarded*.

As in: well, not actually rewarded per se, as JB has already established, but might get some approving nods and street cred.

At the end of the day, in this type of filmmaking and in the general audience, no one gives a flying kucf about the shifting tone mapping and such.

The iPhone, in this case, and BMD cameras in general, can be thought of as 'enablers'. Talent should be easy to recognise.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Sep 18, 2021 11:25 pm

If it’s a convoluted, the sound is bad, it’s a bad story, the editing is bad, there’s bad acting, bad lighting - no camera can fix this.

A great story, shot on a phone with good lighting and editing will better than any bad story shot on a cinema camera.

That’s a longer way of saying cameras are a tool. The new IPhone is a tool. Is it ok to use as main camera? Depends on delivery requirements. Instagram? Yes. Theatre? No. Television? No. Streaming (Netflix, Apple (I’m sure they may WANT to do this) Amazon etc. No

Bcam? Maybe. Crash cam? Sure.

I use my IPhone 11pro for Artemis and Helios plus blocking and tests. It works for that but can you imagine shooting anything longer than 5 minutes on it? Pfffft…. That’s silly!!!


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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Sep 18, 2021 11:51 pm

Clever iPhone campaign video with pointers on shooting with a smartphone. (in French).
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 12:47 am

John Paines wrote:But even at its most rudimentary, filmmaking is...


I don't agree with you. But in the realm of online discussion, that's a non-event.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 2:39 am

AndreeMarkefors wrote:Regarding the power of iPhone filmmaking: my guesstimate is that those who overthink the technical aspects less and get off their butts and shoot more, will be richly rewarded*.

As in: well, not actually rewarded per se, as JB has already established, but might get some approving nods and street cred.

At the end of the day, in this type of filmmaking and in the general audience, no one gives a flying kucf about the shifting tone mapping and such.

+1. The general audience does not care how the picture was made… only that it entertained them is how much of it they remember. If we all think of it this way and shoot more and better content, this discussion would have not started and of little value.
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John Brawley

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 2:45 am

I think the audience is smarter than we give them credit for.

They might not know the technicalities of the why and how. But they know what they like.

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 3:25 am

John Brawley wrote:I think the audience is smarter than we give them credit for.

They might not know the technicalities of the why and how. But they know what they like.

JB

+1. My last contribution to this post. :)
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New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 12:21 pm

John Brawley wrote:I think the audience is smarter than we give them credit for.

They might not know the technicalities of the why and how. But they know what they like.

JB
Very true. I completely agree. And, in part the audience knows what feels like a theatrical experience and whether it’s worth seeing a movie in theaters or waiting for it at home based on the advertising and marketing.

As to the box office numbers and distribution of the money made from the theatrical release that has partly changed for cinema owners over the last decade. Disney is particularly hard on what they take of the box office receipts. It’s a number like 90% these days, and the theater is getting less than 10%. Bucks from concessions is now the main source of revenue for theater owners. Disney also forces the theater to give them three weeks on the best screen or not to receive the movie at all for the biggest releases like Star Wars and Marvel.

There’s been many articles written on the subject of breaking down how the analyze box office “profit” and “loss” and Hollywood accounting is notorious for how a movie never makes money so the filmmakers never see a dime of profit.


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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 1:09 pm

I think we're talking about different things here.

Even with the new iPhone's updates, I don't think anyone expects a small mobile device to phase out professional cameras. Who in the right mind would choose the iPhone as a primary device for any well planned project meant for theatrical release, or even film festivals? Although, in the latter case it's more likely, since the reason you WOULD choose it, is for marketing reasons. Maybe for another generation or two you might get slightly more buzz trying to push the "SENSATION of shooting ONLY with an iPhone".

*gasps*
*you cinematic genius, you!*
*ONLY iPhone?? You must be SUPER GREAT! Surely.*

No, when I say filmmaking I mean mobile filmmaking. The new features will allow filming with an iPhone with the language of cinema, such as shallow DoF. The features don't have to be perfect. Just good enough to make the result more similar to "film" and less "home video".
I think these new tools will make more people want to try it out. Many of whom would not otherwise buy a 'cinema camera'. That is what I meant by enabling.

The new wave of mobile filmmaking that is about to wash over us competes with, and compares to, previous mobile filmmaking. Not anything shot on BMD, ARRI, RED... or the rest.

And these are just my thoughts. Not necessarily an argument against anyone else's beliefs.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 4:32 pm

AndreeMarkefors wrote:I think we're talking about different things here.

Even with the new iPhone's updates, I don't think anyone expects a small mobile device to phase out professional cameras.


I dunno. The very first post in this thread AND the thread title asks that question. I've seen the same blow ups on Facebook.

Is it driven by a fear of investment in hardware becoming redundant? Gasp.

I think it's this and also a darker fear. One that works around the idea that equipment is exclusionary, that if "everyone" can shoot with a tool that makes great pictures and does things you used to have to hire "professionals" to do, then a lot of people will be out of jobs and the niche they've created and worked into a business will vanish.

Personally I keep trying to remember that the best thing to work on is myself. If I'm a good storyteller If I keep nurturing my own creative insight, if I can know where to be to tell the best story, if I know the best moments to roll and the great way to execute a shot that someone else wants, then all of this only factors as a discussion of mild interest because it's just another paintbrush in the toolbox.

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 5:28 pm

Just think how much has changed during last 15 years, and how much that change has affected cinematography. The TV's we had at that time, the internet, the YouTube content popularity, the cameras, the gimbals, the drones.

Drones where a business for short time, now only for DJI. It used to require skilled people and still does if something better is needed than DJI, but mostly DJI is good enough, and the aerial video is geting so common it is boring.

And how about computers and video editing.

The cinema cameras where mostly from camera rentals, the expensive ones, and cinema lenses still are, but BMD cameras are owned, by he cinematographer.

And now everyone has not only video camera, but also video editing tool in their pocket, and sound is tolerable with inexpensive add on microphone, even with the phone microphone. And one does not need to know what is ISO, WB, Shutter speed, focusing, it is all automatic and abstracted away.

People go less to movies, not only because the 65" TV at home, but 2 hours is too much for many, the 10 minute youTube clips are more convenient, and while you are watching you can do something else too.

The content creators today often start alone, They watch couple of youtube videos what to get, and it is something with image stabilisation and good auto focus, and preferably less than 1000 euro all included. If new phone comes with that, great, then it can be a bit more.

It is indeed the content that matters, but that has changed a lot too, the popular content is much different that 15 years ago. My taste for the content has not much changed, but that is not exactly true, I have started to like the Daniel Craig Bond films. ;)
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 6:05 pm

Ye... new most popular content is Love Island :lol:
+ Netflix and their series full of pretended 'diversity' even if no way it fits into story.
Sad world.

Ohh..forgotten about product placement. Maybe soon 90% of the content will be just product placements :lol:
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 8:42 pm

I watched the videos released promoting the iPhone as a cinema camera. The footage quality looks pretty good and if you don't have a big budget, you could certainly shoot with it and a lot of people would be impressed. But is it as good as a Blackmagic camera all rigged out? Of course not. Is it getting closer? It certainly is getting better.

The big notes I saw after watching the promotional videos:

1. The sets and props were awesome. That always improves your footage and makes it more cinematic looking.
2. They had good looking actors/models. That always helps, too.
3. Everything was lit well.
4. The sound was definitely not recorded with the phone.
5. The shallow depth of field looked OK, but for us pixel peepers, you'll tell right away that it's not as good as a real lens.
6. They used talented directors, camera ops and editors to shoot the footage and put it together -- of course that makes a difference. Good music as well.

If you shot those same scenes with pretty much any Blackmagic camera, it would look better and you would have more room in post to fix things and modify the look.

So am I impressed with the new iPhone's camera? YES
Would I ever chose it over my Blackmagic camera? NO

If it's the only camera I had, would I use it? YES

Will technology keep improving? Of course. It's also a good time to learn filmmaking because it's much easier to get your hands on affordable gear.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 8:44 pm

Here are some of the videos I watched:



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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 9:00 pm

There is only 1 thing here.
Why do they have to so hard tell you that iPhone is a PRO tool.
It's all one big crap. Just leave it and let it live its own life. Market, people, etc will decide how good it's.
Apple already massively FAILED once with XDR display (not so long) and if they keep pushing again they will do more bad than good.

With the whole setup and people which Apple used to shot it, recording device was about irrelevant :)
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 9:08 pm

I think it's because they know how powerful the dream of wanting to be a filmmaker is. Some of us make a living in the business, even if it's not making big Hollywood movies. We buy gear, but at least we profit off of it. I'm sure there's a bigger market of people that just like the idea that if they own the phone, they can make their dream happen. Some of them may even be able to pull it off. Most probably won't, but the possibility brings in big bucks for companies like apple. Just my guess. That need to want the best keeps the money coming in.
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thefilmaddict

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 9:12 pm

But I wonder if the people in those promos really believe that it's "PRO". They certainly say it, but do they really believe it? It makes you wonder if there's an apple rep off screen saying: Can we try that one more time and this time, can you use the word "PRO"?

LOL
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 9:26 pm

Does a fake dentists in commercial believes what the says ?
At least those directors were not 'fake'.

Lets ask Apple to reveal how much has their short movie cost ?
Maybe it would be enough to shot a 'proper' movie with real cameras :lol:
And then people will be saying:
"Crap I need to spent that much to be able to shoot anything decent on iPhone 13?
I better use proper camera!" :lol:
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 10:21 pm

So true!
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Jack Fairley

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 10:47 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:ets ask Apple to reveal how much has their short movie cost ?

My thought watching the keynote was that the camera may not be expensive, but everything else sure is.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 11:01 pm

Based on that piece, Katheryn Bigelow might as well be a fake dentist. Every claim she makes for the iphone is either ridiculous or unsupportable.

Give her an iphone, no crew and $1.79, and see what kind of movie she makes with it.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 11:16 pm

John I’m sure she’d make an interesting film with those parameters because she’s a talented filmmaker.

It would just be a “different” film to a marketing film for Apple.

JB
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 11:20 pm

Jack Fairley wrote:
Andrew Kolakowski wrote:ets ask Apple to reveal how much has their short movie cost ?

My thought watching the keynote was that the camera may not be expensive, but everything else sure is.
So you agree it’s not about the camera but the story? :D

I see it like this after DSLR, BMD kinda pushed its way in, maybe mobile phone will be the DSLR of Tomorrow?

lol


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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Sep 19, 2021 11:29 pm

They basically already are.
How many people take still camera when going on holidays these days (specially those with good phones)?
It will be going only further.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 12:18 am

John Paines wrote:Based on that piece, Katheryn Bigelow might as well be a fake dentist. Every claim she makes for the iphone is either ridiculous or unsupportable.

Give her an iphone, no crew and $1.79, and see what kind of movie she makes with it.
Seriously?

Kathryn Ann Bigelow: “The iPhone doesn’t require any ancillary pieces of equipment …with so much accessibility, I think all pretension tends to disappear. And so it makes the set and the filming process much less apprehensive…It’s a completely integrated process now”.

Those don't seem to be outrageous claims in the least. In practically every interview of those involved in the making of films shot with iPhones, they say pretty much the identical thing - actors feeling more at ease, being more nimble, the process being liberating, etc.

Compare Joshua Leonard, actor on Unsane:

“I’ve never moved as fast on a production as we did on Unsane,” Leonard says, adding, “I think part of that was due to technology and the lack of lighting. We only had a single LED panel that we used for the entire shoot, and even that panel only got broken out one of every four, five scenes or so. … [Soderbergh] goes into the day knowing exactly the shots that he wants, and then I think the technology, both the speed of the iPhone and its ability to move around the room and get in inaccessible spaces, allows for a profound conflation between impulse and executions for him, so for us actors there’s never any waiting around.”

Or how about Radium Cheung (Billions, The Blacklist), cinematographer on Sean Baker's Tangerine:

One of the great advantages of a minimal camera and lighting package was that passers-by barely gave them a glance. “Nobody realized we were filming or took it seriously,” says Cheung. “After the first two days, we realized this approach really had a benefit!” Although the production obtained permits for all locations, they didn’t have anyone to lock down streets, so life on Santa Monica and Highland cruised through the shots. In this sense, the mobile phones added considerably to the filmmakers' goal of realism. “Trying to make it an entertaining film and a social-realist film was a balancing act that went all the way through production and post,” says Baker. “We found the style slowly.” - asc mag,

Or cinematographer Maxime Héraud, who's worked on several pictures with Claude Lelouch:

“…it’s [the iPhone] really, really good. It can deliver a picture that can transmit an emotion. Really. What is nice is the weight. Because it’s so small and light you can put the camera everywhere, it can move fast, which is really great".

So no, not every claim that Kathryn Bigelow makes is unsupportable or ridiculous.
Last edited by JonPais on Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 12:47 am

Kathryn Bigelow was paid to do an Apple commercial, and probably wouldn't want to offend that company, as a major source of film funding today. And Joshua Leonard was promoting his own movie, as well as his career and future with Steven Soderbergh.

Are these objective and believable sources of information? Did you believe Soderbergh when he insisted that the iphone 7+ look like "velvet" on a 40 foot tall screen? Or Ms. Bigelow when she says the iphone 11 doesn't need any "ancilliary equipment"? Did it look like that production lacked "ancilliary equipment"?

Meanwhile, as the rich and famous promote their products, this thread runs in a circle. We're told on the one hand that the iphone11 is a great cinema camera, and no worries because general audiences aren't discriminating enough to assess its shortcomings. Or it's great cinema camera because whoever buys it won't actually try to make cinema. And on and on.... It's another phone that records video, not the Second Coming.

[EDIT: you added examples after my post, all promoting their own movies. This is not worth addressing. You either want to shoot with a phone or you don't.]
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 12:57 am

John Paines wrote:Kathryn Bigelow was paid to do an Apple commercial, and probably wouldn't want to offend that company, as a major source of film funding today. And Joshua Leonard was promoting his own movie, as well as his career and future with Steven Soderbergh.

Are these objective and believable sources of information? Did you believe Soderbergh when he insisted that the iphone 7+ look like "velvet" on a 40 foot tall screen? Or Ms. Bigelow when she says the iphone 11 doesn't need any "ancilliary equipment"? Did it look like that production lacked "ancilliary equipment"?

Meanwhile, as the rich and famous promote their products, this thread runs in a circle. We're told on the one hand that the iphone11 is a great cinema camera, and no worries because general audiences aren't discriminating enough to assess its shortcomings. Or it's great cinema camera because whoever buys it won't actually try to make cinema. And on and on.... It's another phone that records video, not the Second Coming.
You have not proved that Kathryn Bigelow's perfectly sound and reasonable statements, echoed by nearly every filmmaker who's ever shot with an iPhone, are ridiculous or unsupportable. You don't have to accept bribes to realize that shooting with an iPhone is less cumbersome, puts the crew at ease, and allows you to work quickly and unobtrusively. In all the interviews I've seen, they talk about working with a minimum of gear. No one ever claimed that the iPhone was the Second Coming, that really came out of left field!
Last edited by JonPais on Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 1:10 am

And how many of the endorsees are making movies with iphones today?
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 2:00 am

John Paines wrote:And how many of the endorsees are making movies with iphones today?
Attacking an argument by calling into question the source is a common type of logical fallacy. In other words, insisting that an argument's validity depends entirely upon the source, when in reality, the validity of an argument depends not on who is making the argument, but solely on its merits.

"Kathryn Bigelow was paid to do an Apple commercial, and probably wouldn't want to offend that company, as a major source of film funding today. And Joshua Leonard was promoting his own movie, as well as his career and future with Steven Soderbergh".

Another ploy is to attack a person's credibility by insisting that they have ulterior motives, such as fame, wealth, etc. Because it is impossible to know precisely what anyone is thinking, this is a convenient subterfuge when one runs out of genuine arguments.

A filmmaker can absolutely be a spokesperson for a brand and still be honest about their products. Even if Apple paid Kathryn Bigelow to create five genres with the iPhone, that does not in and of itself make her observations any less factual.

"Let's see what she can do with $1.79". Yet another common fallacy, that of turning a reasonable argument into an absurd one, by taking the argument to ridiculous extremes.

And lastly, a spokesperson not using a product their entire lifetime in no way invalidates their impressions at the time they were made. I can praise Bright Tangerine's Titan Arm to the skies, but it can remain in my closet for a year without in any way nullifying my opinion.
Last edited by JonPais on Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 2:06 am

Titan arms weren’t successful. Bright Tangerine just stopped making them.

John’s question is absolutely relevant.

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 2:12 am

John Brawley wrote:Titan arms weren’t successful. Bright Tangerine stopped making them.

John’s question is absolutely relevant.

JB
All logical fallacies. The Digital Bolex might have been a financial failure, but it was beloved of filmmakers. If Blackmagic loses money on one of their products, that in no way nullifies customers' impressions of it. The Titan Arm has next to nothing to do with what I've written, but good way to try to derail the conversation, though.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 2:24 am

Everyone on this thread understands the argument. Whining about not being a good argument ? Cmon.

Who is making iPhone shot narrative content? Is that going to change with this phone?

Some have done it, I’d argue more as a proof of concept. Just like your HDR utopian dreams.

Has it stuck ? Nope.

JB

(Dude you brought up Bright tangerine titans. I thought it was funny you chose a failed product as an example)
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 2:38 am

John Brawley wrote:(Dude you brought up Bright tangerine titans. I thought it was funny you chose a failed product as an example)
You genuinely fail to understand the notion that someone can enjoy a movie that didn't do well at the box office or a product that has been discontinued? And a hypothetical statement at that... just like, wow.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 2:44 am

JonPais wrote:You genuinely fail to understand the notion that someone can enjoy a movie that didn't do well at the box office or a product that has been discontinued? wow


Most of the movies I enjoy aren't financially successful.

You fail to see the irony of using an example of your own tacit endorsement of a product that has actually failed, which you presumably weren't aware of.

JB
Last edited by John Brawley on Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 2:46 am

John Brawley wrote:
JonPais wrote:You genuinely fail to understand the notion that someone can enjoy a movie that didn't do well at the box office or a product that has been discontinued? wow


Most of the movies I enjoy aren't financially successful.

You fail to see the irony of using an example of own tacit endorsement of a product that has actually failed, which you presumably weren't aware of.

JB
You're just trolling now. I'm out of here.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 2:47 am

JonPais wrote:You're just trolling now. I'm out of here.



GREAT!

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 6:33 am

Are you seriously arguing anyone making a $100 000 + production using iPhone only, unless the point exactly is to make that using iPhone only?
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 9:14 am

JonPais wrote:
John Paines wrote:Based on that piece, Katheryn Bigelow might as well be a fake dentist. Every claim she makes for the iphone is either ridiculous or unsupportable.

Give her an iphone, no crew and $1.79, and see what kind of movie she makes with it.
Seriously?

So no, not every claim that Kathryn Bigelow makes is unsupportable or ridiculous.


How many A/B class movies were shot on iPhone? 5, 50, 100- any stats for it?
I assume all were more like experiments and sort of special projects alike treated?
Of course some of those statements are true: small, you can move fast, go everywhere, etc.
How many scenes in typical movie do require those features? How often holding iPhone while shooting is actually a pain because it’s so small and so easy to ‘move’?

If Apple made a movie where eg. 50% scenes which needed such a small camera were shot on iPhone and rest on Alexa, BM etc and shown that whole thing looks seamlessly then I would be more impressed.
In the same time you should be able to find few other devices with about same features which offer even better quality, yet no one is shooting full movies with them ( only scenes which do need it).
It all feels just ‘to much/to fake’. As I said- if iPhone proves by itself that it’s a useful tool on sets then people will use it. There is really no such a big need for these shows which try to prove fraction of the truths.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 1:09 pm

Am I getting an iPhone 13 Pro? Yes. Am I using it for "Cinematic Video?" No.

I did the base 128 GB model since I don't need more than that. I have had 64 GB for years and been fine. In fact I'm looking forward to having more music on my iPhone than doing more video. Maybe some more Photos storage space as well.

Again, I think this phone could be a great scouting and planning tool. It could be great to help you realize what the vision might be with a given focal range. But then you have true cinema lenses on a real cinema camera to actually shoot the thing.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 4:01 pm

Amazing because the poster here was busy posting about how much product placement there was in Apple TV shows with the inference being that the Apple overlords are forcing Apple TV shows to have apple product in every shot and yet they aren’t forcing anyone to shoot content using iPhone, surely a more likely scenario.

Yes I’ve done Sony shows and YES they want you to shoot Venice if possible or have a good reason why you shouldn’t. I’ve done Apple shows and they are threes stages removed from the creative on-set process and have never dictated what I shoot.

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 4:29 pm

John Brawley wrote:I’ve done Apple shows and they are threes stages removed from the creative on-set process and have never dictated what I shoot.


Well, Siri dictates me all day along what she thinks I said or wanted to type...
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 5:24 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:
John Brawley wrote:I’ve done Apple shows and they are threes stages removed from the creative on-set process and have never dictated what I shoot.


Well, Siri dictates me all day along what she thinks I said or wanted to type...
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 5:33 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:Well, Siri dictates me all day along what she thinks I said or wanted to type...
:D

Ain't that the truth. I asked Siri this morning what cinema camera I should get for my upcoming project and she replied "There's the new IPhone 13 Pro with cinematic mode and features." :lol:
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