The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

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Simon Reichel

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The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 8:17 am

Hey guys,
I've been doing some research and there is an appaling lack of truly objective, comparative reviews of shoe-mount microphones. Yeah, there's the MKE 400 and the Videomic Pro+, but let's be honest, in a professional capacity those sound garbage. There is a German one, the Ambient Sound TinyMike that has amazing sound but it's very old and still ridic expensive for what it is.

Plus with the XLR port on the 4K and 6K, the pro grade, longer shotguns become feasible. But I'm not finding anything online about higher grade XLR mics being used as top-mics. Like which for example have shock absorbant shoe-mounts, etc.?

Is there anybody out there using a higher grade mic as a top-mount and can share their experience or point me towards a really good review somewhere?

Oh and just prophylactically, please miss me with the 'get a sound guy' talk ;) If my shooting environment allowed for one, I wouldn't be asking this :)

Thanks!
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Robert Niessner

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Re: The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 8:37 am

I have used several Rode NTG-3s and the Schoeps Collette with my BMD cameras. But I don’t use them mounted onto the PCC4K, that just doesn’t work out size wise.
For ambient recordings I have the Rode VideoMic NTG on the PCC4K and it does this job very well.

For interviews I either use a lavalier set like the Sennheiser EW100 G3 with their better gold mic (not the cheaper standard lav) or the NTG3 or the Schoeps (depending on the location).

BTW the YouTube Channel of Curtis Judd provides a wealth of mic tests from a very competent sound guy.
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Simon Reichel

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Re: The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 8:50 am

Thanks Robert! Funny, I just found Curtis's channel right after posting this :)

You're saying the NTG3 and MKH 416 don't work out sizewise on the BMPCC, why is that? Are they too long? If using the BMPCC with proper cine lenses, aren't you coming out at pretty much the same lenght? Or are they that much longer?

Thank you!
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Robert Niessner

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Re: The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostMon Sep 20, 2021 10:17 am

Simon Reichel wrote:Thanks Robert! Funny, I just found Curtis's channel right after posting this :)

You're saying the NTG3 and MKH 416 don't work out sizewise on the BMPCC, why is that? Are they too long? If using the BMPCC with proper cine lenses, aren't you coming out at pretty much the same lenght? Or are they that much longer?

Thank you!


I've no problem to put the NTG3 or similar sized mics onto my Ursa Mini 4.6k where it's size does not get in my way. But I found those shotgun mics too clunky for the Pocket - especially when outfitted with a dead cat. Also the extra weight makes it less convenient during handheld shots or transportation outside a bag. The smaller footprint of the VideoMic NTG makes it ideal for me.
Saying "Thx for help!" is not a crime.
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Read the blog in English via Google Translate:
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Adam Silver

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Re: The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostTue Sep 21, 2021 12:05 am

I mount the MKE 600 onto the top of the camera cage. Works great. Excellent sound. You can go direct to the camera, but I prefer to pass it through a MixPre III first and then into the camera.

Adam
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Howard Roll

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Re: The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostTue Sep 21, 2021 1:26 am

It really depends on the subject. The 416 is great for high SPLs and works well in loud environments but it's not that selective. If I were trying to trying to record dialog from an on camera mic I'd probably pick something a little longer than a short shotgun like the NTG3 or the 416.

To be frank I've (probably) never used an on-camera mic but I can say from experience that from about 6 feet away a 416 or NTG3 is not going yield results worth the price of admission where dialog is concerned.

Good Luck
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Robert Castiglione

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Re: The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostTue Sep 21, 2021 11:46 am

I use a sanken cs 1 (short shotgun) with very good results but you are essentially limited to using a wide angle lens to get close enough eg 35 or 28mm. Sanken have excellent off axis rejection - particularly the longer shot gun version.
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Peter Selbie

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Re: The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostTue Sep 21, 2021 12:10 pm

There is no mic that can operate on top of the 6k camera the fan is too noisy for that.
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dondidnod

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Re: The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostTue Sep 21, 2021 12:46 pm

Peter Selbie wrote:There is no mic that can operate on top of the 6k camera the fan is too noisy for that.

I've found that at less than 65 degrees F, and at HD ProRes 422 on my BMPCC 4K, the fan does not come on, and does not interfere with my Sennheiser MKE 600 mounted on top. When I have had fan noise issues, it was when using 4K in either BRAW or ProRes HQ on a warmer day.

Here is a sample of that audio:

Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=106094&p=586425&hilit=angry+guy+using+a+bullhorn#p586425

Here is another sample with a Sennheiser MKE 600 mounted on top:

Re: Best microphones that work with the BMPCC 6K?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=106094&p=594727&hilit=GH5+dual+recorded+using+a+Lectrosonics#p594727
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Peter Selbie

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Re: The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostTue Sep 21, 2021 5:58 pm

I'm not talking about bmpcc 4k whose fan makes remarkably less noise than 6k's.
Those examples are from 4k camera.
I have tried with different microphones and the fan is very noticeable disturbing the dialogue with the bmpcc 6k.
An external microphone on a boom is better, but then even longer than 1 meter distance, that's where the problems start.
that's the same for every shotgun mic they are made for close range in terms of dialogue
Best way is something like wireless go
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Uli Plank

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Re: The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostWed Sep 22, 2021 7:04 am

The fan noise from BM's cameras seems to vary a lot.
I've seen (or rather, heard) 4Ks that were noisier than the 6K Pro.
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John Griffin

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Re: The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostWed Sep 22, 2021 7:20 am

Simon Reichel wrote:Hey guys,
I've been doing some research and there is an appaling lack of truly objective, comparative reviews of shoe-mount microphones. Yeah, there's the MKE 400 and the Videomic Pro+, but let's be honest, in a professional capacity those sound garbage. There is a German one, the Ambient Sound TinyMike that has amazing sound but it's very old and still ridic expensive for what it is.

Plus with the XLR port on the 4K and 6K, the pro grade, longer shotguns become feasible. But I'm not finding anything online about higher grade XLR mics being used as top-mics. Like which for example have shock absorbant shoe-mounts, etc.?

Is there anybody out there using a higher grade mic as a top-mount and can share their experience or point me towards a really good review somewhere?

Oh and just prophylactically, please miss me with the 'get a sound guy' talk ;) If my shooting environment allowed for one, I wouldn't be asking this :)

Thanks!

Mic 'sound quality' when mounted on the camera is not too important as it's compromised ( ie your recordings are unusable) by too many things such as distance from the sound source, handling noise and as mentioned fan noise. The very best sounding small shotgun mics also require very good shock mounts and wind protection which makes them impractical for all but very controlled situations where you would use a seperate recording setup anyway. They also require quite large amounts of pre amp gain which the BM pockets can't provide sou you need to add a seperate recorder / preamp anyway.
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Videobegin

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Re: The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostWed Sep 22, 2021 11:30 am

AT is one my favorite brands for shotgun:
https://www.audio-technica.com/en-gb/mi ... pe/shotgun

I learned from old radio broadcast job that you don't have A solution. It's an equation with many variables:
- the take : ambiant, group, individual
- outside contraints : noise, reflexions, distance
- intrinsec contraints : fan, power supply, shock
...and the mood, taste and experience of sound engineer :lol:

And if you can't do it with mike on rig, you can use wireless link !
hyperdeck 12G - Teranex HDMI to SDI 12G - Teranex hdmi<>optical - ATEM Television Studio Pro 4K - Web presenter HD - BMPCC 4K - Studio Camera 4K Pro
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Robert Castiglione

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Re: The truly best top mic for the BMPCC 4K/6K

PostWed Sep 22, 2021 11:12 pm

It is possible to get excellent sound with an an onboard mic. As mentioned you need the right shock mount, the right mic, the right lens, the right wind protection and ideally a tiny preamp you can add to your mic which boosts your signal to the camera so you are not relying too much on cam preamps. I have all these these conditions and the sound quality is really good. Bmpcc 4k has no fan noise to speak of.
Rob Castiglione
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