New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostMon Sep 27, 2021 10:46 pm

Kays Alatrakchi wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:With FiLMiC Pro you can get other frame rates (at least on my SE II).


My main question is, does Filmic Pro actually record true 24p, or does it do an on-the-fly conversion from 30p?


Based on this:
https://www.dxomark.com/apple-iphone-13 ... ing-video/

you can choose fps, but not in cinematic mode.
Big applause for Apple. Cinematic modes shapes to be an amazing feature- just exactly opposite to what Apple tried to advertise it as :lol:
Bottle of Polish vodka for someone who can explain me why Apple advertising is so 'strange'?
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Kim Janson

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostTue Sep 28, 2021 2:49 am

A true pro cinematographer would know not to post 24 fps on youtube, as there is nothing cinematic on 24 fps on 60 hz monitor, that is what most youtube watchers use.

Apple knows the iPhone Videos will be watched mostly on 60 Hz monitors.

Someone should make a test with two groups recognised cinematographers, and wannabe cinematographers to show videos shot with two same camera and lens next to each other, but one 24 fps 180 degree shutter angle and other 30 fps 225 degree, but other-ways exactly same camera settings, edited exactly the same, but 24 fps on 24 fps timeline and 30 fps on 30 fps timeline.

First show those on 120 Hz display and ask which one is 24 fps. If this test was done correctly, alternating the left and right camera between shots and making many shots and not shooting on artificial 50 Hz or 60 Hz light, I bet not many if any could tell.

Then show the same on 60 Hz monitor and ask which one is better. A true cinematographer would of course recognise 24 fps judder on 60 Hz, and hopefully tell 30 fps is better on this monitor, but I am afraid many would think the 24 fps on 60 Hz is the cinematographic look as that is what they have learned.

Ps. the monitors we have these days do not blank between screen updates, or do that very fast at least. The 24 FPS projectors had shutter to blank the screen when next frame was moved on its place. On 120 Hz monitor a single 24 FPS frame is shown 5 times, so to mimic the cinematic experience maybe one or 2 of these frames should be black, but is that experience really what we want?

Edit: looking a bit deeper to the 24 FPS projector operation, it seems actually 96 Hz display would be ideal to mimic it and every second image black. So maybe this should be the reference for the above test with the question is this what we really want instead of the 30fps on 60 Hz.

Screenshot 2021-09-28 at 7.26.36.jpg
Screenshot 2021-09-28 at 7.26.36.jpg (206.2 KiB) Viewed 1923 times



Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
Kim Janson wrote:
So kudos for Apple for making 30 fps only.


You don't get it- they made it for pro cinematographers no average iPhone users :lol:
Last edited by Kim Janson on Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:46 am, edited 6 times in total.
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JonPais

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostTue Sep 28, 2021 3:17 am

Low light capability has been making steady progress, too, especially now with larger sensor and faster lens.

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Kim Janson

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostTue Sep 28, 2021 3:29 am

Lowlight is also much about the calculation power, through how many images they can iterate the pixels and collect more light, but probably also the AI, to recognise it is a car side and should look somewhat even colour slowly sliding to different shades etc. This can cause some strange effects and those can be only seen looking the video.

especially these days comparing videos based on a steady shot does not tell much so link to the video would be good.
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Curtis Campsall

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Sep 29, 2021 4:47 pm

I don’t care how good the new iPhone is, it’s not going to replace a real camera for me. iPhone indies have always been about getting hype, not about proving that the phone is a pro media. I remember last year when Mythic Quest did their pandemic lockdown episode they had to convince Apple that iPhone was good enough, and they were just using it for webcam look. Apple won’t be mandating their big budget shows shooting on the phone any time soon.
Dop16mm on the other forum
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Tim Franks

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Sep 29, 2021 4:49 pm

Curtis Campsall wrote:I don’t care how good the new iPhone is, it’s not going to replace a real camera for me. iPhone indies have always been about getting hype, not about proving that the phone is a pro media. I remember last year when Mythic Quest did their pandemic lockdown episode they had to convince Apple that iPhone was good enough, and they were just using it for webcam look. Apple won’t be mandating their big budget shows shooting on the phone any time soon.
I hear you! I also remember when people have said the same about Blackmagic cameras


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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Sep 29, 2021 10:29 pm

Kim Janson wrote:A true pro cinematographer would know not to post 24 fps on youtube, as there is nothing cinematic on 24 fps on 60 hz monitor, that is what most youtube watchers use.

Apple knows the iPhone Videos will be watched mostly on 60 Hz monitors.

Someone should make a test with two groups recognised cinematographers, and wannabe cinematographers to show videos shot with two same camera and lens next to each other, but one 24 fps 180 degree shutter angle and other 30 fps 225 degree, but other-ways exactly same camera settings, edited exactly the same, but 24 fps on 24 fps timeline and 30 fps on 30 fps timeline.

First show those on 120 Hz display and ask which one is 24 fps. If this test was done correctly, alternating the left and right camera between shots and making many shots and not shooting on artificial 50 Hz or 60 Hz light, I bet not many if any could tell.

Then show the same on 60 Hz monitor and ask which one is better. A true cinematographer would of course recognise 24 fps judder on 60 Hz, and hopefully tell 30 fps is better on this monitor, but I am afraid many would think the 24 fps on 60 Hz is the cinematographic look as that is what they have learned.

Ps. the monitors we have these days do not blank between screen updates, or do that very fast at least. The 24 FPS projectors had shutter to blank the screen when next frame was moved on its place. On 120 Hz monitor a single 24 FPS frame is shown 5 times, so to mimic the cinematic experience maybe one or 2 of these frames should be black, but is that experience really what we want?

Edit: looking a bit deeper to the 24 FPS projector operation, it seems actually 96 Hz display would be ideal to mimic it and every second image black. So maybe this should be the reference for the above test with the question is this what we really want instead of the 30fps on 60 Hz.

Screenshot 2021-09-28 at 7.26.36.jpg



Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
Kim Janson wrote:
So kudos for Apple for making 30 fps only.


You don't get it- they made it for pro cinematographers no average iPhone users :lol:
24fps and the seven second panning rule were fine for 48-nit theatrical presentation; when it comes to today’s brighter, more contrasty, high resolution displays, not so much.
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Kim Janson

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostThu Sep 30, 2021 7:22 am

"24fps and the seven second panning rule were fine for 48-nit theatrical presentation; when it comes to today’s brighter, more contrasty, high resolution displays, not so much."

I guess it would be totally fine to swap red and green channels if one is totally colour blind, well that was not totally fair to say, but just saying maybe people see the 24 fps on 60 Hz differently, and I see no cinematic reason to do that as explained above.

I will say this still about the file management. It was yesterday on news that some universities have noted the students have problems to understand what is a file, directory and over all file management, and they are arranging courses on that. :D Sorry but I do find that funny, but thinking more of it, of-course, these days it is more and more difficult to know where the files go, they just go somewhere and only way to find them is by searching and possibly using a dedicated aplication like Photo and searching on it.

Searching has got really fast and handy compared to what it used to be.

iPhone abstracts the file structures away, on normal camera videos are on the memory card, and need to be downloaded to computer and organised somehow on directory to find them later. I do prefer the later, especially for files I want to be sure are backed up.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostFri Oct 01, 2021 12:41 pm

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Kim Janson

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostFri Oct 01, 2021 2:25 pm

And they put it on 24 fps timeline and post on youtube 24 fps, because they are cinematographers...

Not impressive the artificial blur, but maybe if used mildly ok.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostFri Oct 01, 2021 4:03 pm

It's what it's- an artificial blur done in realtime one chip. It's far from perfect and it may never be perfect as creating perfect mask is crazy difficult.
There are case where it looks okish, but on average it's faaaar from been acceptable for pro cinematographers.
Add fact it's only for HD. Even youtubers want today UHD :)
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 02, 2021 3:15 am

John Brawley wrote:I worked on the second season of the morning show.


Ironically, I snapped the attached photo of JB's "The Morning Show" credit with my old iPhone 6, so sue me. :-)

The show looks great (of course), John!

Cheers.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Oct 03, 2021 3:59 am

Some interesting info on Cinematic Mode over at Twitter.

https://twitter.com/jankais3r/status/14 ... 3697489923

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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSun Oct 03, 2021 9:45 am

You have your map so now can do what you want with it in any tool.
It’s just low resolution as Handrick predicted.
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New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostTue Oct 05, 2021 5:00 pm

Filmic Pro ProRes 422 HQ 10bit UHD, on an iPhone Pro Max with 1TB storage. ProRes Proxy, ProRes LT, ProRes 422, and ProRes HQ available.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2021/10/05/ ... mpressive/
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostTue Oct 05, 2021 5:06 pm

ProRes or not iPhone video is so "processed". What one would like from Filmic Pro is to be able to disable at least some of this "auto" processing, but this may not be possible at all.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostTue Oct 05, 2021 11:17 pm

Not for every shooting situation, but certainly may not be fair to say “not for any shot.”
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 2:52 am

Some user shot ProRes clips from iPhone finally being posted online. The gamut clipping is crazy ugly. The auto tone mapping is still undefeatable, and getting the footage off has been reported to be exactly the kind of slow pain it was expected to be. So, when a used 4K Pocket can be found for under $1K, why would anyone ever bother with shooting anything that matters on an iPhone that will cost even more?
I don't see how ProRes on iPhone as currently implemented is progress in any useful way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 3:09 am

Jamie LeJeune wrote:Some user shot ProRes clips from iPhone finally being posted online. The gamut clipping is crazy ugly. The auto tone mapping is still undefeatable, and getting the footage off has been reported to be exactly the kind of slow pain it was expected to be. So, when a used 4K Pocket can be found for under $1K, why would anyone ever bother with shooting anything that matters on an iPhone that will cost even more?
I don't see how ProRes on iPhone as currently implemented is progress in any useful way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's the reason why an army of YouTubers, Twitchers and podcasters are driving sales of the Pocket 4K. Blackmagic has met their goals by wisely choosing the pricing strategy for the target market.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 9:18 am

Jamie LeJeune wrote:Some user shot ProRes clips from iPhone finally being posted online. The gamut clipping is crazy ugly. The auto tone mapping is still undefeatable, and getting the footage off has been reported to be exactly the kind of slow pain it was expected to be. So, when a used 4K Pocket can be found for under $1K, why would anyone ever bother with shooting anything that matters on an iPhone that will cost even more?
I don't see how ProRes on iPhone as currently implemented is progress in any useful way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I don’t believe Apple improves cameras in iPhone with goal of making it a “pro” camera. They perfectly know it never will be.
They just use this as marketing strategy. Big words, more buzz, but I don’t really see it’s working and driving iPhone sales much further. They could easily use other strategy ( real iPhone buyers orientated ). You could easily present cinematic mode in more optimal way than trying to pretend it’s for pro world. At least for me it has very opposite effect. Whole thing is about meaningless because when it come to core sales reasons this feature represent about no meaning. Better cameras overall for sure, but cinematic mode itself is a gimmick for average iPhone user ( same as pretending it’s pro feature).
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 10:28 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
Jamie LeJeune wrote:Some user shot ProRes clips from iPhone finally being posted online. The gamut clipping is crazy ugly. The auto tone mapping is still undefeatable, and getting the footage off has been reported to be exactly the kind of slow pain it was expected to be. So, when a used 4K Pocket can be found for under $1K, why would anyone ever bother with shooting anything that matters on an iPhone that will cost even more?
I don't see how ProRes on iPhone as currently implemented is progress in any useful way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I don’t believe Apple improves cameras in iPhone with goal of making it a “pro” camera. They perfectly know it never will be.
They just use this as marketing strategy. Big words, more buzz, but I don’t really see it’s working and driving iPhone sales much further. They could easily use other strategy ( real iPhone buyers orientated ). You could easily present cinematic mode in more optimal way than trying to pretend it’s for pro world. At least for me it has very opposite effect. Whole thing is about meaningless because when it come to core sales reasons this feature represent about no meaning. Better cameras overall for sure, but cinematic mode itself is a gimmick for average iPhone user ( same as pretending it’s pro feature).
By next year, experts say video viewing will account for 88% of all internet traffic. Companies that track such things have seen an explosion in the creation of short form video content creation and consumption (including Google) since the pandemic. We see videos uploaded to YT Shorts, just one of many such apps, raking in tens of millions of views. Surveys also show that the camera is a key feature consumers consider when purchasing a smartphone. Offering better low light capabilities, more faithful color reproduction, stabilized video and the ability to blur the background differentiate phones in a highly competitive market. Over 90% of purchasers are looking for a good camera. Six years ago, 62% of smartphone buyers were reported to have been influenced by the review videos on YouTube. That number has since exploded. And what are influencers talking about? For sure, cinematic mode! Several of the ones I myself watched showed how much better the iPhone 13 was at capturing photo and video of their children and spouses over competing brands. Apparently demand for the new iPhone 13 range has even seen Taiwan-based camera component suppliers give priority to Apple over Samsung, and Chinese phone companies. Sales of the iPhone 13 in China are through the roof.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 10:37 am

Yes, but all of this is outside from pro film industry, yet Apple's idea of selling it is by inviting pro cinematographers etc. For me it's not the best marketing (you could do something which would speak to more average iPhone users), but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe iPhone users believe they can become pro cinematographers :lol: So many of them buy new model even if the absolutely don't need it anyway, so...

Btw..answering original thread question. Of course iPhone is better than BM camera. It can do calls and tons of other things :lol:
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 10:42 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Yes, but all of this is outside from pro film industry, yet Apple's idea of selling it is by inviting pro cinematographers etc. For me it's not the best marketing (you could do something which would speak to more average iPhone users), but maybe I'm wrong.
Not sure what ads you watched, but the YouTube ads have been watched and shared tens of millions of times for sure. If you really think the appeal of those ads is strictly to pro filmmakers, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 10:48 am

None of it apples to pro cinematographers- this is exactly the point.
And for audience which it meant to appeal there could be better way of advertising it, I think.

Today's marketing campaigns are based on massive research and science, so maybe Apple done their homework and they feed their audience with things which trigger them the most. Very often in such a studies you get big surprises how people react on certain things, so I may be very wrong.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 11:00 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:None of it apples to pro cinematographers- this is exactly the point.
And for audience which it meant to appeal there could be better way of advertising it, I think.

Todays marketing campaigns are based on massive research and science, so maybe Apple done their homework and they feed their audience with things which trigger them the most. Very often in such a studies you get big surprises how people react on certain things.
You tell me. Here are a few snippets from a Google search:

"As of September 24, the first day of the iPhone 13 series on the market, the sales on JD Daojia, an e-commerce platform, increased by 470 percent, compared to the iPhone 12 on the first day sales, exceeding 800 units in one hour...", "Hot demand for iPhone 13 in China crashes Apple website", "survey data cited by the Information indicates that Apple is expected to gain more market share in the United States as Android manufacturers are hit harder by ongoing chip shortages", "Apple remains in the midst of its strongest overall product cycle in roughly a decade", "Apple reports a 50% year-over-year jump in iPhone sales".
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 11:16 am

And you think this is due to fake blur called "cinematic mode" and its amazing video which presented it?

I think it's because iPhone is simply a good phone and because huge part of Apple audience will replace a phone regardless if they need it or not. It's not necessarily telling a good thing about Apple fans though :lol:
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 11:29 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:And you think this is due to fake blur called "cinematic mode" and its amazing video which presented it?

I think it's because iPhone is simply a good phone and because huge part of Apple audience will replace a phone regardless if they need it or not. It's not necessarily telling a good thing about Apple fans though :lol:
Apple, Samsung and Google have all made the camera the centerpiece of their marketing, dude.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 11:34 am

Because about rest of the phones is good enough (been good enough for few years already).
They have to feed people with something new to sell more.
Cameras are better in new iPhone which is cool, but is cinematic mode a key selling point? Doubt it. If you read net opinions about it they are actually not so great (specially coming from those who it was most likely designed for).

As for you selling numbers. It's mainly an initial euphoria, as surveys are not so optimistic:

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/10/05/us ... e-watch-7/

also key reason to update are: 120Hz screen and battery life (things which actually matter and give real benefits).
If Apple made battery life 50% better and had no cinematic mode at all it would sell 1000s time more.
Cinematic mode in about meaningless in bigger picture. Simple USB-C port inclusion would crush cinematic mode feature.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 11:48 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Because about rest of the phones is good enough (been good enough for few years already).
They have to feed people with something new to sell more.
Cameras are better in new iPhone which is cool, but is cinematic mode a key selling point? Doubt it. If you read net opinions about it they are actually not so great (specially coming from those who it was most likely designed for).

As for you selling numbers. It's mainly an initial euphoria, as surveys are not so optimistic:

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/10/05/us ... e-watch-7/
The iPhone 13 has the best smartphone camera of any manufacturer according to practically every single tech website. SellCell comes out with a new survey every week. In August, they were writing that as many as 44 percent of iPhone users intend to upgrade to an iPhone 13. LOL
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostWed Oct 06, 2021 1:23 pm

All down to initial buzz.
Best bits are probably 120Hz and new cameras (and bit better batter life).
It just shows you that all what Apple really needs is to release phone with eg. 50% better battery life and it will be already huge sales push. No gimmicks needed.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 6:06 am

An episode of Apple TV+ comedy Mythic Quest - which received extraordinarily high audience approval ratings and was hailed by some critics as among the smartest workplace comedies on television - was shot remotely using dozens of iPhones, apparently to great success.

Creator and star Rob McElhenney spoke with co-creator Megan Ganz and executive producer and co-star David Hornsby about trying to shoot something in quarantine, but only if they could do it without lowering their standards.

“We wanted make sure we didn’t have to apologize for the quality,” McElhenney said, both in terms of coming up with story lines that felt both funny and emotionally honest enough to be “respectful” to the suffering that people are going through, and in terms of the actual audio and video quality. “We want people to look back to this on the platform in five years and think that they made this in the studio,” he said.

"If you’re making a show for Apple TV+, there’s the added benefit of getting all the Apple tech you want. On a conference call with “the people in Cupertino,” McElhenney said, he suggested that each member of the cast would need three iPhones each to film their scenes. They’d shoot with one phone, then sterilize it and put it in a secure area outside their apartment or home, where it’d be picked up by a courier, brought to an editor, sterilized again, uploaded to Avid editing software, and then sent back to the actor. By cycling through cameras continuously, while also editing the episode together, the work could be done much faster. “I said, ‘If it’s possible to get 40 iPhones and 20 sets of AirPods, could you have them to us by the end of the week?’” McElhenney said. “There was a rep on the phone, and she said she’d already tracked them down, and would have them sent to my house by 5 o’clock.”

Reviewers went so far as to proclaim the show a huge technical achievement, setting the bar for remotely filmed sitcoms. Sounds like Apple does work very closely with the producers of their shows after all, which should come as no surprise. What would be shocking would be if they didn't.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 11:26 am

Director, actor, stuntman, writer, producer, and stunt coordinator David Leitch, co-director of John Wick, director of Atomic Blonde, Deadpool 2 and Hobbs and Shaw, shows how to direct action for a shoot with an iPhone.

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 12:05 pm

Rolling shutter of iPhone 13 Pro: the main camera comes to a very good 6.8ms, the ultra-wide angle and the telephoto camera even create excellent 5ms. Pocket 6K 19.8 ms.

Comparison: Debayering

Screen Shot 2021-10-09 at 6.56.46 PM.jpg
iPhone 13
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Screen Shot 2021-10-09 at 6.57.02 PM.jpg
Blackmagic Pocket 6K
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John Paines

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 12:12 pm

JonPais wrote:An episode of Apple TV+ comedy Mythic Quest - which received extraordinarily high audience approval ratings and was hailed by some critics as among the smartest workplace comedies on television -
...

Reviewers went so far as to proclaim the show a huge technical achievement, setting the bar for remotely filmed sitcoms.


The entire post sounds like a publicity release, verbatim. "Extraordinarly high approval" or "huge technical achievement"? Says who?

What exactly are you selling here? How many "remotely filmed sitcoms" are there, who wants to make them, and you really need an iphone do it?

A phone can shoot nice footage, under some circumstances. What's so important about all this?
Last edited by John Paines on Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 12:19 pm

That episode stands out from others and not not as a better one for sure.
I don't really get why iPhone here is so important bit either. You could shot it with other phone with good cameras as well. All just pr buzz, not that much more.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 12:23 pm

JonPais wrote:Rolling shutter of iPhone 13 Pro: the main camera comes to a very good 6.8ms, the ultra-wide angle and the telephoto camera even create excellent 5ms. Pocket 6K 19.8 ms.

Comparison: Debayering

Screen Shot 2021-10-09 at 6.56.46 PM.jpg

Screen Shot 2021-10-09 at 6.57.02 PM.jpg


This shows you that RAW our of phones would solve a lot of issues and make footage from them a way better.
You also have more processing power left for other fancy bits (like cinematic mode etc.). Those should be saved as dynamic metadata and used later. Unfortunately a lot of industry keeps so outdated way of thinking.
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JonPais

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 3:22 pm

TechCrunch talks with Apple VP Kaiann Drance and Human Interface Team designer Johnnie Manzari about the genesis of cinematic mode.

"The first thing that the team did was go speak to some of the best cinematographers and camera operators in the world. They also went to movies and watched examples of films through time.

“In doing this, certain trends emerge,” says Manzari. “It was obvious that focus and focus changes were fundamental storytelling tools, and that we as a cross-functional team needed to understand precisely how and when they were used.”

They then worked closely with directors of photography, camera operators and 1st ACs, whose responsibilities include focus pulling. Observing them on set and asking questions."

“We’re on set and we have all these amazing people and they’re really the best of the best. And one of the engineers noticed that the focus puller has this focus control wheel, and he’s just studying the way that this person does this. Just like when you look at like someone who’s really good at playing the piano, and it looks so easy, and yet you know it’s impossible. There’s no way you’re going to be able to do this,” says Manzari.

“This person is an artist, this person is so good at what they do and the craft they put into it. And so we spent a lot of time trying to model the analog feel of a focus wheel turning.”

The entire interview can be found here: https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/23/how-a ... atic-mode/
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 6:19 pm

Yes, a lot of pr talk. A lot... Give me a break.

What is so great about their approach to this subject in iPhone 13 as I don't see anything very good there at all ?
What came out of this Apple intensive analysis? Gimmicky feature which works in auto mode mainly, without much of any detailed manual control (which cinematographer word like)? Did they really need so much research to come up with such a cinematic mode (operationally wise)? Wow- I assume Apple has money so they can waste as much as they want.

Take good techie guy, seat it with focus puller and some cinematographer (show well chosen sample scenes) for a day and subject covered.

Corpos love their pr crap.
I work with XXX tools which are very expensive and reading their announcements etc in most cases makes me laugh :)
With good enough pr you can make people think poo is a gold these days. A lot would believe.
Last edited by Andrew Kolakowski on Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 6:49 pm

JonPais wrote:Director, actor, stuntman, writer, producer, and stunt coordinator David Leitch, co-director of John Wick, director of Atomic Blonde, Deadpool 2 and Hobbs and Shaw, shows how to direct action for a shoot with an iPhone.



What I think after watching it.
Industry needs a PROPER small camera (not an iPhone or GoPro) which could be used in the way how they used iPhone. Well designed, film grade (of course with all the limitations) 'action' camera. That's it.

Still have no idea what someone is trying to tell me ? That an iPhone can shoot a video? That an iPhone can shoot a video which is good enough to make money on it? That amount of money spent on this promo videos is insane (same with this year one)?
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JonPais

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 10:30 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:
JonPais wrote:Director, actor, stuntman, writer, producer, and stunt coordinator David Leitch, co-director of John Wick, director of Atomic Blonde, Deadpool 2 and Hobbs and Shaw, shows how to direct action for a shoot with an iPhone.



What I think after watching it.
Industry needs a PROPER small camera (not an iPhone or GoPro) which could be used in the way how they used iPhone. Well designed, film grade (of course with all the limitations) 'action' camera. That's it.

Still have no idea what someone is trying to tell me ? That an iPhone can shoot a video? That an iPhone can shoot a video which is good enough to make money on it? That amount of money spent on this promo videos is insane (same with this year one)?
It’s called parody, dude.
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John Paines

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 11:04 pm

JonPais wrote:t’s called parody, dude.


This guy in the video is trying to sell the iphone, with all the conviction money from Apple can buy, to would-be filmmakers. Or, at least, to people who love their phones. No parody there at all. Forget the small army of crew and stunt persons he's hired, and what the insurance premium must have cost, with all these kids involved.

And then there's the laughable claim that all you need to make an action movie (parodic or serious) is a [small] camera. But even in that case, there are dozens of other small cameras better suited to controlled shooting and post-production. Time to retire this thread?
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JonPais

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 11:09 pm

John Paines wrote:
JonPais wrote:t’s called parody, dude.


This guy in the video is trying to sell the iphone, with all the conviction money from Apple can buy, to would-be filmmakers. Or, at least, to people who love their phones. No parody there at all. Forget the small army of crew and stunt persons he's hired, and what the insurance premium must have cost, with all these kids involved.

And then there's the laughable claim that all you need to make an action movie (parodic or serious) is a [small] camera. But even in that case, there are dozens of other small cameras better suited to controlled shooting and post-production. Time to retire this thread?
It’s parody, dude. Please do not spread misinformation.
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JonPais

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 11:09 pm

John Paines wrote:
JonPais wrote:t’s called parody, dude.


This guy in the video is trying to sell the iphone, with all the conviction money from Apple can buy, to would-be filmmakers. Or, at least, to people who love their phones. No parody there at all. Forget the small army of crew and stunt persons he's hired, and what the insurance premium must have cost, with all these kids involved.

And then there's the laughable claim that all you need to make an action movie (parodic or serious) is a [small] camera. But even in that case, there are dozens of other small cameras better suited to controlled shooting and post-production. Time to retire this thread?
It’s parody, dude. Please do not spread misinformation. Anybody at all familiar with Leitch and his work instantly recognizes his trademark deadpan delivery and sense of humor.
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John Paines

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 11:24 pm

So, in that case, you agree the whole iphone promotion is nonsense? You're engaged in parody as well? And go easy on the dude, thing, bro. It's not as cool as you think.
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JonPais

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 11:29 pm

John Paines wrote:So, in that case, you agree the whole iphone promotion is nonsense? You're engaged in parody as well? And go easy on the dude, thing, bro. It's not as cool as you think.
Apparently, Apple did commission Leitch to shoot the ad, after all.
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John Paines

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Re: New iPhone. Better than a BM Camera?

PostSat Oct 09, 2021 11:32 pm

Of course they did. You can find that Apple commercial listed right on his imdb page.
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