Great URSA 12K: but do not dismiss super 16

Great URSA 12K: but do not dismiss super 16

I wanted to compare the various resolutions of the URSA Mini Pro 12K as to what comes from the camera and no downsizing or down-sampling in Resolve. To do this I chose to make several time laps clips at full framing, 6 frames per second and Q0. (Exposures were all constant.) These comparisons concerned mostly the resolution as that is what was varied. Other aspects of image quality did not really show differences. I have also ignored any concern that that super16 mode has a big crop factor.

I first checked two lenses: Zeiss Otus 28mm and Canon 100-400 L IS II USM. The Otus clearly showed differences with 12K the most, then 8K, then 4K the least. Then Canon showed the 12K and 8K to be about the same and the 4K less. So I eliminated the Canon and only used the Otus for the comparison.

I then made clips as above at 12K, 8K, 4K, 6K super16 and 4K super16.

The clips were compared in Resolve at 1:1 using a 4K timeline and image scaling of center crop with no resizing. This was also done with a 12K timeline. No downsizing of anything except what the camera may have done.

The results showed the 12K clips to be the "best". The 8K and 6K super16 clips were next and very, very close to each other but clearly lesser than the 12K. The 4K and 4K super16 clips were the least and very close to each other.

What surprised me were the results of the super16 clips. I expected the 8K to show some real difference to the 6K super16. I also expected the 4K down-sampled off the whole sensor to be better than the 4K super16, but not so. I have yet to try down-sampling using resolve, but I now suspect that it may prove better then what the camera is giving. I also what to find if with a 4K deliverable what down-sampling might provide. At this point I don't see the camera doing this with it's down-sampling. The other image quality aspects like the great color may just be from the great sensor design alone. Might something be missing in the way this camera is down-sampling?

In seems though that super16 clips from the URSA 12K can hold their own quality wise and save some of that that precious file space. (or use it for 4K 240fps)

As another interest I have found that for a 4K deliverable the Otus can be zoomed 3X in Resolve without any loss when shot at 12K. (The Canon can be zoomed 2X.)

Do you have video or frames you can share to help demonstrate these findings?

Tim, yes, I will put something together... and try to do so without compression.

Following are crops of images in order: 12K, 8K, 4K, 6Ksuper16, 4Ksuper16.
The crops are about 2000x2000 pixels from the 80 mega pix of each.

Note: cannot get images to appear so here are links:

http://jeffreydmathias.com/photos/12K.tif

http://jeffreydmathias.com/photos/8K.tif

http://jeffreydmathias.com/photos/4K.tif

http://jeffreydmathias.com/photos/6KS16.tif

http://jeffreydmathias.com/photos/4KS16.tif

Hi Jeffrey,

Thank you for the links.

Have you used the internal ND or external?

Do you remember the OTUS F-stop setting?

Can you share one 12K Frame?

Resolve has a button in the RAW tab to export just one frame in BRAW file format.

Ted,
I checked and the ND filter 2 was used (0.6 ND) Also the shutter speed was 1/1586 so the aperture was open, but not all the way. (unfortunately not recorded.) Nothing in front of the Otus except lens shade.
I could not find a RAW tab one frame button, but I used the media manager to output a one frame clip.


http://jeffreydmathias.com/photos/12Kbraw.braw

Edit: did not realize the Braw files would be so small so here are the others:

http://jeffreydmathias.com/photos/8Kbraw.braw

http://jeffreydmathias.com/photos/4Kbraw.braw

http://jeffreydmathias.com/photos/6KS16braw.braw

http://jeffreydmathias.com/photos/4KS16braw.braw

It's here, Jeffrey (scroll down):

Bildschirmfoto 2021-12-19 um 07.38.35.png (130.7 KiB) Viewed 2307 times

And then, I second your observations. I tried some old Arri/Zeiss S-16 Super Speeds in the S-16 mode of the 12K. While they are no match for an Otus resolution wise, they are fast and have nice character.

I repeated the above after updating to 7.7 firmware. The results are similar. 12K the best; super16 6K a bit better than 8K both next; and 4K and super16 4K about the same and lowest.

Do you notice any differences in quality overall with the new update?

Sean, yes, please read in other post on 7.7 update

Thanks for the update:)

12k-->4K in Resolve vs 4K in-camera will be much better.

You have to remember that with doing scaling in-camera, you're essentially changing the actual way the sensor works and using less photo sites.

If you do it from Resolve, then you're getting all the photo sites (assuming you're shooting 12K) so there's a lot more information.

6K mode is also the same photo site density as the 12K mode, just windowed (to Super 16 size) Whereas the 4K in-camera is fewer pixels spread over a larger area that are mathematically generated. There are larger gaps between the pixels that are interpolated.

I've personally found that 4K on the 12K isn't really great, whereas 8K and 12k do perform as the numbers would lead you to expect.

JB

That’s a good option. Start capturing in 6K mode and to produce your post deliverables in great 4K colour.

Thank you so much !

I was looking for something like this for a long time. I intend to buy this camera. But nobody test the performance of the S16 mode ! But in fact, old S16 super qualitativ lenses are on the market and make the price totally worth it !

Like that, high end cinema glasses for commercial and those precious S16 for documentary !

What do you think about this idea ?