4K ProRes more detail vs 6k on BMCC6KPro

I’ve seen many articles and tests on the subject, but now i own a BMPCC 6K pro myself, i am amazed by the fact that in every test, any resolution, 4k prores is always the clear winner regarding fine detail.
6K braw Q0 is still lacking detail compared to 4k prores. Sharpen in post does not bring back detail that is not recorded so sharpening the braw 6K footage in Resolve will NOT get it even close.

Question 1:
So, someone please explain to me why i’d use low-detail 6K on this camera. I really don’t get it.
If 4K is superior to 6K, aren’t we looking at a design flaw?

Question 2:
Will 6k ProRes be a future option?

(And yes, after 35 years behind the camera I can distinguish electronic sharpening from true detail, so that’s not the issue.)

Martin.

Do you mean absolutely more detail or on a 4K timeline monitoring 4K?

Troll post.

6K from a Bayer-pattern downsampled to 4K will always look better than a 4K window.
The number of photocells (aka sensels) doesn’t equal resolution.

Troll post.

I beg your pardon? Show some respect please.

Assuming you are viewing both on a 4k monitor on a 4k timeline what is your resize filter setting ( i.e the subsampling algorithm), what is your decode quality resolution for the BRAW set to and in the user playback settings what's your performance mode set to?
I'm also assuming you changed lenses or zoom settings to reframe between the 6k BRAW full sensor area and 4k ProRes crop?
Never used mine in ProRes / 4k crop and never knew there was no 6k Pro Res option until now.....

Hello John.

Your assumptions are correct. I've done a few extra tests, using FCP with the same results.
The BRAW was set to Q0 6144 x 3456.
Performance modes in FCP and Resolve to max quality.
I did indeed reframe.
Also tried putting both in a timeline of their native resolution and exported it to a 4K master with the same results: lack of detail in the 6K version even when compared to the 4K prores version.

I also saw similar tests with a Red Komodo 6K, where there was absolutely more visible detail in the 6K source files than in the 4K prores, as expected.

I will test with an external Prores recorder later today.

I am really not posting here to troll, but because I'm worried that maybe there's something wrong with my camera or sensor. I use the Zeiss compact primes.



Martin.

Assuming you are viewing both on a 4k monitor on a 4k timeline what is your resize filter setting ( i.e the subsampling algorithm), what is your decode quality resolution for the BRAW set to and in the user playback settings what's your performance mode set to?
I'm also assuming you changed lenses or zoom settings to reframe between the 6k BRAW full sensor area and 4k ProRes crop?
Never used mine in ProRes / 4k crop and never knew there was no 6k Pro Res option until now.....

At what level of magnification is the difference apparent? Can't speak to FCP, but in Resolve you need to turn off "Performance mode" entirely, ensure you're debayering at highest quality (raw tab) and select "sharper" for the scaling option (project preferences).

I can't recall ever seeing a resolution test of the BMPCC 6K. Does it achieve true 6K? Assuming the usual 20% loss of resolution over the rated resolution of the sensor, that would give us 4.8K. If the contest is really between 4.8K braw image and a Prores image down-sampled from 4.8K to 4K, disparities in compression/noise could account for what you're seeing.

But unless someone else with access to the camera can comment, am not sure we'll get anywhere. Seeing your tests wouldn't be decisive, given all the potential sources of error, but not seeing them is even less helpful.

Also tried putting both in a timeline of their native resolution and exported it to a 4K master with the same results: lack of detail in the 6K version even when compared to the 4K prores version.

I also saw similar tests with a Red Komodo 6K, where there was absolutely more visible detail in the 6K source files than in the 4K prores, as expected.

If you can upload the source files someplace to download and try out that would be helpful to see what you are looking at.

I am really not posting here to troll, but because I'm worried that maybe there's something wrong with my camera or sensor. I use the Zeiss compact primes.

Which Zeiss CP and what was the aperture set to in each shot?

I can't recall ever seeing a resolution test of the BMPCC 6K. Does it achieve true 6K? Assuming the usual 20% loss of resolution over the rated resolution of the sensor, that would give us 4.8K. If the contest is really between 4.8K braw image and a Prores image down-sampled from 4.8K to 4K, disparities in compression/noise could account for what you're seeing.

But unless someone else with access to the camera can comment, am not sure we'll get anywhere. Seeing your tests wouldn't be decisive, given all the potential sources of error, but not seeing them is even less helpful.

^^^This 100%^^^

I beg your pardon? Show some respect please.

Earn it!