Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

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Texaco87

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Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostMon May 16, 2022 9:51 pm

I'm trying to put together a prime lens kit for my BMMCC and am getting a little overwhelmed in my research. If anyone has any insight/recs based on what I've been looking at that would be amazing, thanks!


6/7.5 mm Lenses


Venus Optics Laowa Cine 6mm T2.1

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _t2_1.html


Venus Optics Laowa 7.5mm T2.1

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _t2_1.html



10-12 mm Lenses


SLR Magic 10mm T2.1 HyperPrime

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _lens.html


Voigtlander Nokton 10.5mm f/0.95

https://www.ducloslenses.com/collection ... /nokton105


Meike 12mm T2.2 Wide Angle Cinema Lens

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... focus.html



16/17 mm Lenses


Meike 16mm T2.2 Wide Angle Cinema Lens

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... ength=12mm


Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm f/0.95

https://www.ducloslenses.com/collection ... /nokton175


Mitakon Zhongyi 17mm T1 Speedmaster

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _lens.html



25 mm Lenses


Meike 25mm T2.2 Wide Angle Cinema Lens

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... ength=16mm


Voigtlander Nokton 25mm f/0.95 V2

https://www.ducloslenses.com/collection ... s/nokton25


Mitakon Zhongyi 25mm T1 Speedmaster

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... A514&smp=y


SLR Magic 25mm T0.95 HyperPrime

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _cine.html



35 mm Lenses


Mitakon Zhongyi 35mm T1 Speedmaster

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _lens.html


SLR Magic Cine 35mm T0.95 Mark II

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _ii_m.html


Meike 35mm T2.2 Wide Angle Cinema Lens

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... ength=25mm
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rick.lang

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostMon May 16, 2022 10:43 pm

You might consider the SLR Magic MicroPrimes since there are a variety of matched lenses for micro four-thirds (and other mounts). Although not necessarily matched to the MicroPrimes, SLR Magic 10mm has met with good reviews and could be a replacement for the MicroPrime 12mm.
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Texaco87

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostMon May 16, 2022 11:18 pm

Ya know I was looking at those but got turned off by the CA, focus breathing, and baked in halation/diffusion…that was after falling madly in love with them based on some footage I saw with a BMPCC4K haha
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Jeffrey D Mathias

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostTue May 17, 2022 12:25 am

If you really want to take care of CA and focus breathing Tokina makes a nice set of cinema primes at a competitive price to others similar ($6,000 to $7,500 range.) However, for a lot less money Irix currently has 6 cinema primes ($1,200) which can be better than any of those you mentioned for the concerns you mentioned. Also if looking for a set to use together it may be wise to keep them all a similar brand.
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Texaco87

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostTue May 17, 2022 12:44 am

Thanks so much for the reply, those IRIX certainly look like a good option. Do you think T4.3 would be too slow with a 3x crop factor though?

Edit: wait sorry it looks like that’s just for the 11mm, the 15mm is a T2.6

One of the reasons I was looking the T1.0 and 0.95 was for the extra stop or two of light but maybe that is unnecessary?
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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostTue May 17, 2022 5:57 am

I used to have a set of the older SLR Magic Hyperprimes, they were nice but a little mismatched (in every way) amongst the set.

Now I'd probably go for the Meikes because they fairly well matched (albeit slower) and readily available.

If money is of slight concern then pick up a set of Optars or MK1 Superspeeds.

Good Luck
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Texaco87

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostTue May 17, 2022 10:10 am

Yeah I'm thinking Meike 8, 12, 16, 25, 35 is the move...

I was just looking at the Optars/Super Speed MKIs yesterday and saw them referred to as relatively affordable, but everything I found was SUPER expensive. Can you maybe point me in the right direction? I'm totally willing to spend $1,000 a lens, I just couldn't find them at that price. Thanks!
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Jeffrey D Mathias

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostTue May 17, 2022 12:26 pm

The Irix 21mm, 30mm and 45mm are T1.5 and the 150mm macro (1:1) is T3.0.
To get some info and comparisons with other lenses grouped with these check out what Matthew Duclose says:
Spoiler: His favorite of the group is Irix.
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Brad Hurley

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostTue May 17, 2022 12:41 pm

Jeffrey D Mathias wrote:The Irix 21mm, 30mm and 45mm are T1.5


The problem is that on the BMMCC these become 63mm, 90mm, and 135mm due to the tiny Super 16 sensor. A group of primes for this camera needs something reasonably fast at the ultrawide end to make for a practical set; the longer focal lengths will have limited use.
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Brad Hurley

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostTue May 17, 2022 12:57 pm

Texaco87 wrote:One of the reasons I was looking the T1.0 and 0.95 was for the extra stop or two of light but maybe that is unnecessary?


It really depends on what you plan to shoot and under what conditions. The BMMCC and original Pocket perform best with a lot of light; noise becomes an issue very quickly with lower light levels. If you're planning to shoot mostly outdoors in daytime, or indoors with adequate controlled lighting, no worries. If you need more flexibility you may want something faster.

The Meikes are a practical enough choice: small, light, native MFT mount, standard filter size and consistent position of focus and iris rings, decent image quality and sharpness. If you are getting the Nikon Speedbooster, another option is the Zeiss ZF primes, which probably have the closest look to the old Superspeeds (minus the triangular OOF highlights), but they're stills lenses and you might find them a bit limiting for video. Duclos used to do cinemods on them which made them more practical.

For example Tiago Pimentel (aka "David Evans") has been using a Zeiss ZF2 21mm on the original BMPCC to nice effect; you can see an example here (with just a regular Nikon F/G adapter, no Speedbooster):
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Texaco87

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostTue May 17, 2022 3:32 pm

Yeah I’m thinking cinema lenses will be what I want just based on our experience using still lenses for our last shoot. If only voigtlander / mitakon / slr magic made complete kits at T1…

The kern Switar lenses are also some of the nicest I’ve seen paired with the BMPCC / BMMCC sensor but I’m not sure how practical they would be

It seems like the optar illuminas we’re budget s16 cinema lenses at one point, is that correct? If so I’m truly bummed those days seem to be gone. If anyone can point me in the direction of some s16 cinema lenses around 1,000 per lens I would be eternally grateful

Edit: I love the switars because of how sharp they are. Do people find the meikes to be flat? Two separate thoughts I guess haha
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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostWed May 18, 2022 12:01 am

I shoot the original bmpcc, so same sensor basically, and treat it as a super16 camera, but with micro 4/3 primes. I have the Meike 16mm t2.2 and really like it as my normal. I’ve never needed brighter than, but do light, don’t expect to see in available dark. I don’t have the rest of the set but if you want a mechanically consistent full set it is probably your best bet. They have recently launched a 10mm as well, which I really want, their 8 is a 2.8 and a bigger filter so kind of a bummer.

If you want ultra wides, the Venus are really your only option, but they now have a 10 and a 17 which look cool, haven’t tried, but would give you a matched set from wide to normal, they are tiny which might fit well on the micro.

I rarely use long lenses, so have the small Meike 25, 35, 50 made for stills and under $100 each but fully manual and declicked aperture. Cut fine with the 16, don’t take up much room in the bag. My 12 is the little Rokinon t2.2 which was available long before the Meike, no need to replace it. All the Chinese lenses seem fairly neutral without obvious differences, they cut together fine.
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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostWed May 18, 2022 3:59 am

Here is some information on s16 cinema lenses:

RESOURCES - OPTICS FOR SUPER 16 - FILM AND DIGITAL

http://cinematechnic.com/resources/optics_for_super-16/
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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostWed May 18, 2022 11:45 am

Texaco87 wrote:Yeah I’m thinking cinema lenses will be what I want just based on our experience using still lenses for our last shoot. If only voigtlander / mitakon / slr magic made complete kits at T1…

The kern Switar lenses are also some of the nicest I’ve seen paired with the BMPCC / BMMCC sensor but I’m not sure how practical they would be

It seems like the optar illuminas we’re budget s16 cinema lenses at one point, is that correct? If so I’m truly bummed those days seem to be gone. If anyone can point me in the direction of some s16 cinema lenses around 1,000 per lens I would be eternally grateful

Edit: I love the switars because of how sharp they are. Do people find the meikes to be flat? Two separate thoughts I guess haha


i own a part of the meike set (12, 16, 25, 35 and 50) and a p4k. im not sure what the definition of a flat lens is tbh, but theyre very sharp, inoffensive and transparent, if that makes sense. sort of like the zeiss cp or sigma cines but for a smaller format. i think it makes sense to own them since they work for everything, and they take filters well if you would want a slightly different look. i think the 8, the newly released 10, 12, 16, 25 and 35 would be a good set for you.
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Texaco87

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostMon May 23, 2022 4:48 pm

“The Meikes are a practical enough choice: small, light, native MFT mount, standard filter size and consistent position of focus and iris rings, decent image quality and sharpness.”

What makes you say decent image quality? What are they lacking? I’m finding myself coming back to them as the best option give my choices and budget (8, 10, 12, 16, 25, 50)
Last edited by Texaco87 on Mon May 23, 2022 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostMon May 23, 2022 4:57 pm

Texaco87 wrote:What makes you say decent image quality? What are they lacking? I’m finding myself coming back to them as the best option give my choices and budget (8, 10, 12, 16, 25, 50)


Sorry if that sounded like faint praise. I would only say they are lacking in "character." They have everything else going for them; I have one (actually their predecessor, a Veydra, in 50mm), and it's a really nice lens. It is not as "clinical" as the Sigma 18-35 but is closer to the Sigma's look than to a vintage Super 16 prime. I put "character" and "clinical" in quotes because these are slippery terms that mean different things to different people, and not everyone looks for the same qualities in a lens.
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Texaco87

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostMon May 23, 2022 5:03 pm

Got it, thanks so much!

Follow up, do you have any idea why they made/offered 50mm with S16 lenses (optar, zeiss)? It seems like it becomes crazy long with the sensor, 150, whereas a 35mm would seem to make more sense at 105.

Appreciate insight and all the help!
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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostMon May 23, 2022 5:10 pm

Texaco87 wrote:Follow up, do you have any idea why they made/offered 50mm with S16 lenses (optar, zeiss)? It seems like it becomes crazy long with the sensor, 150, whereas a 35mm would seem to make more sense at 105.


I assume there was demand for longer lenses; as long as you have a very steady tripod it's not a problem. I mostly use my Veydra 50mm for shooting stationary objects that are some distance away; e.g., this one, which I took with the Veydra 50mm on BMMCC a few years ago:

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostMon May 23, 2022 10:59 pm

Guess you need to look at your future system from mechanical and optical point of view.
Mechanical:
1. Lens mount type. MFT and other non-locking mount systems usually wobble and rotate a little bit during focusing. For some situations it is critical.
PL mount or positive locking Canon mount adapter connected to camera cage or to rods will be 100% stable and will perfectly hold the lens. But there are not too many PL lenses. PL lenses rear side is extended and easier to scratch when you change lenses.
2. Another very personal mechanical taste for anyone is placement of iris/focus ring, ring diameter, ring rotation amount, left/right direction of rotation. distance marks in feet vs meters may be critical. Using too random lenses that have makes things not too comfortable, especially if you have photo camera that use other lenses.
3. Size of the front ring, filter thread/no filter thread. If you don't use mattebox, filter thread in front may be very critical. some cine lenses sets don't have filter threads.
4. Build in focus gears. For my opinion not too important. Currently there are large amount of companies that produce very nice seamless custom sized PU plastic gears, so you can fit them to any lens size. Plastic gears feels more friendly than metal ones, weight less and also provide additional external size that increases focusing precision.
5. Iris blades amount. Some prefer 9-12 blades that give more rounded look, some prefer 5-6 edges shaped bokeh. Blades amount and lens design also affect to flares. Some lenses may produce beautiful looking stars and flares in the dark, some lenses may produce ugly looking flares.

Optical:
Formally vintage "softer" and more "cinematic" look vs crisp transparent modern "commercial" look. Modern lenses that use aspherical vs legacy lenses that use non aspherical elements will give very different bokeh look (google "onion bokeh"). Partially you may emulate lens look (but not bokeh look) by grading or VFX (there are plenty of beautiful looking examples done with BMPCC+basic Panasonic zoom lens+some film emulation).

Some personal experience:
Yashica ML 50mm 1:1.7 I really like semi-vintage Yashica photo lenses. They are not too perfect and same time not too vintage. Very nice looking image for rather low cost. (i use 50mm, 28mm and 35-105 zoom)
SLR Magic 12mm T1.6 HyperPrime I also like SLR magic lenses, but depending of luck some models may look too soft. Build quality is OK. Lens is heavier than any other similar sized ones. 12 or so blades - perfectly circle bokeh. I hear some rumors that they don't use aspherical elements.
Venus Optics Laowa 7.5mm f/2 MFT. Nice lens. tiny sized, build quality is very nice and accurate. Image look is also nice but on the modern looking side.
Meike 6.5mm F2.0 Fisheye got it for sort of VFX lens because it fully covers BMMCC sensor without black corners. Low cost lens, Build quality is so-so. Image center moves during focusing, seems thread is not well aligned. Meike provide modern and sharp look with hard looking chromatic abberations.
Veydra was nice looking kit as i remember

I also got once 16mm Optar Illumina lens. Sort of complicated thing. Image was a little bit off centered but crisp and interesting. Mechanically it was problematic. Very heavy weight. Grease was too old and focusing was too stiff. I figured how to disassemble it and replace grease, so it became better. Inside i found few holes frilled by mistake and one screw thread on the lens mount was broken. Not too critical, but feels like people on factory didn't care about it at all. 16mm lens has very tiny soft vignette on BMMCC camera. Wider lenses will vignette even more. Those lenses are no more manufactured long time ago and so currently remaining examples may be too overpriced. As i know it was another factory in that manufactured variation of Optar Illumina with better quality control and in slightly different enclosure, but with 3x increased price.

More high end Cooke or Zeiss PL cinema lenses may magically provide crisp and soft look at the same time. They also perfectly adjusted, calibrated and greased. But difference in price is too extreme.

P.S. Instead of huge amount of lenses in set i personally may recommend invest into Rawlite OLPF/IR filter for BMMCC. This is must have part for this tiny camera that will give you totally different look and feel https://rawlite.com/product/rawlite-olp ... era-1080p/
Last edited by Dmytro Shijan on Tue May 24, 2022 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostMon May 23, 2022 11:22 pm

Texaco87 wrote:Got it, thanks so much!

Follow up, do you have any idea why they made/offered 50mm with S16 lenses (optar, zeiss)? It seems like it becomes crazy long with the sensor, 150, whereas a 35mm would seem to make more sense at 105.


Appreciate insight and all the help!


Panther Cinar commisioned 7mm, 8mm, and 35mm lenses to augment the Zeiss Mk1-2-3 lineup.

Optar/Elite had an 8 lens lineup with the Mk3s and the Mk4 lineup consists of 12 lenses, both include a 35mm.

The Zeiss Ultra 16 set also includes a 35mm as well as a 6mm and 8mm.

Good Luck
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Texaco87

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostThu May 26, 2022 4:00 pm

Dmytro Shijan wrote:Guess you need to look at your future system from mechanical and optical point of view.
Mechanical:
1. Lens mount type. MFT and other non-locking mount systems usually wobble and rotate a little bit during focusing. For some situations it is critical.
PL mount or positive locking Canon mount adapter connected to camera cage or to rods will be 100% stable and will perfectly hold the lens. But there are not too many PL lenses. PL lenses rear side is extended and easier to scratch when you change lenses.
2. Another very personal mechanical taste for anyone is placement of iris/focus ring, ring diameter, ring rotation amount, left/right direction of rotation. distance marks in feet vs meters may be critical. Using too random lenses that have makes things not too comfortable, especially if you have photo camera that use other lenses.
3. Size of the front ring, filter thread/no filter thread. If you don't use mattebox, filter thread in front may be very critical. some cine lenses sets don't have filter threads.
4. Build in focus gears. For my opinion not too important. Currently there are large amount of companies that produce very nice seamless custom sized PU plastic gears, so you can fit them to any lens size. Plastic gears feels more friendly than metal ones, weight less and also provide additional external size that increases focusing precision.
5. Iris blades amount. Some prefer 9-12 blades that give more rounded look, some prefer 5-6 edges shaped bokeh. Blades amount and lens design also affect to flares. Some lenses may produce beautiful looking stars and flares in the dark, some lenses may produce ugly looking flares.

Optical:
Formally vintage "softer" and more "cinematic" look vs crisp transparent modern "commercial" look. Modern lenses that use aspherical vs legacy lenses that use non aspherical elements will give very different bokeh look (google "onion bokeh"). Partially you may emulate lens look (but not bokeh look) by grading or VFX (there are plenty of beautiful looking examples done with BMPCC+basic Panasonic zoom lens+some film emulation).

Some personal experience:
Yashica ML 50mm 1:1.7 I really like semi-vintage Yashica photo lenses. They are not too perfect and same time not too vintage. Very nice looking image for rather low cost. (i use 50mm, 28mm and 35-105 zoom)
SLR Magic 12mm T1.6 HyperPrime I also like SLR magic lenses, but depending of luck some models may look too soft. Build quality is OK. Lens is heavier than any other similar sized ones. 12 or so blades - perfectly circle bokeh. I hear some rumors that they don't use aspherical elements.
Venus Optics Laowa 7.5mm f/2 MFT. Nice lens. tiny sized, build quality is very nice and accurate. Image look is also nice but on the modern looking side.
Meike 6.5mm F2.0 Fisheye got it for sort of VFX lens because it fully covers BMMCC sensor without black corners. Low cost lens, Build quality is so-so. Image center moves during focusing, seems thread is not well aligned. Meike provide modern and sharp look with hard looking chromatic abberations.
Veydra was nice looking kit as i remember

I also got once 16mm Optar Illumina lens. Sort of complicated thing. Image was a little bit off centered but crisp and interesting. Mechanically it was problematic. Very heavy weight. Grease was too old and focusing was too stiff. I figured how to disassemble it and replace grease, so it became better. Inside i found few holes frilled by mistake and one screw thread on the lens mount was broken. Not too critical, but feels like people on factory didn't care about it at all. 16mm lens has very tiny soft vignette on BMMCC camera. Wider lenses will vignette even more. Those lenses are no more manufactured long time ago and so currently remaining examples may be too overpriced. As i know it was another factory in that manufactured variation of Optar Illumina with better quality control and in slightly different enclosure, but with 3x increased price.

More high end Cooke or Zeiss PL cinema lenses may magically provide crisp and soft look at the same time. They also perfectly adjusted, calibrated and greased. But difference in price is too extreme.

P.S. Instead of huge amount of lenses in set i personally may recommend invest into Rawlite OLPF/IR filter for BMMCC. This is must have part for this tiny camera that will give you totally different look and feel https://rawlite.com/product/rawlite-olp ... era-1080p/


Thank you so much for the detailed reply! The Rawlite OLPF filter is actually the first thing I bought for the camera. I'm not sure which route I will pursue at this point to be honest, I was hoping to find a native mft mount lens set that checked all the boxes, but we shall see. I'm not in a big rush, just hoping (as I'm sure we all are) to get it right on the first try :-)

Thank you sincerely to everyone for all the help and input!

Edit: As I keep saying, I think the Meike's are probably the best option all things considered...I know I want to pick up the 16 and 25, but can't decide between the 8, 10, or 12

Either that or duclos cine mod 10.5, 17.5, and 25, I'm just afraid of them being too soft with BMMCC's sensor
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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostFri May 27, 2022 3:35 am

Any thoughts or real life tests about SLR Magic MicroPrime Cine compare to Meike Cinema Lenses kit?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _t2_8.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... focus.html
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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostFri May 27, 2022 9:03 am

I have a pair of the Meike MFT cines (25mm and 50mm), use them on my Micro. They're very sharp, have lots of contrast, really nothing to complain about--except the flaring. Stray light hitting the glass will render your footage will compress blacks and turn the entire image hazy. This seems to be a trend with the Meike cine brand; if I recall correctly the Super35 cines exhibited it too. A good matte box with barn doors is a must.
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Dmytro Shijan

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Re: Prime Lens Kit for BMMCC

PostFri May 27, 2022 10:00 am

Ok, so Meike is sharp by default and it is not my imagination. Also seems Meike primes don't have front filter thread at all?

From YouTube videos seems SLR Magic MicroPrime looks near same as older SLR Magic HyperPrime. Sort of modern-vintage lens for those who like soft look with a lot of character, but same time want modern and mechanically well made enclosure. 82mm front filter thread allow to attach filter. (Sort of compromise, because i guess many people would prefer more popular and low cost 77mm filters instead of 82mm)

Anyway, it is really nice to see two different lens "looks" for rather low cost prime lenses.
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