So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

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Robert Niessner

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So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 8:05 am

What do you guys think?

This release makes me hope for a PCC4k Pro with the better screen and ND filters.
And I so wish for a locking mount...
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 8:09 am

Personally, I don’t understand this release. You basically take a 6K pro, remove the internal NDs and call it the 6K G2!!!
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 8:33 am

I guess the 6k G2 is for all users do not like the internal ND filters of the 6k pro and need the tilt monitor a better battery life. It is a 6k 2nd generation with the same dynamic range. I am waiting for a further pocket upgrade.

I would rather take down the 6k because the 6k pro has all in one the better options and would upgrade the 6k pro with an 8k sensor or upgrade the 4k with all pro options of the 6k pro. IMO this makes more sense for the whole pocket family.

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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 8:35 am

Who’s in charge of new products? Ya fired!

My guess is they’re getting rid of parts. Not sure who this camera is aimed at.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 9:05 am

I wonder if the screen is as bright as on the Pro, the nits are only specified on the Pro.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 9:34 am

Yeah, this is basically the Pocket 6K Pro without internal ND. I mean cool, but I not enough to get me to buy one. The firmware update gives me a lot of the features I need for my Pocket 6K Pro and Pocket 6K.

Still wish a firmware update for my UMPG2 could make it have some of the features being put in the Pockets. Even the 12K doesn't have some of these updates.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 10:26 am

timbutt2 wrote:Yeah, this is basically the Pocket 6K Pro without internal ND. I mean cool, but I not enough to get me to buy one. The firmware update gives me a lot of the features I need for my Pocket 6K Pro and Pocket 6K.

Still wish a firmware update for my UMPG2 could make it have some of the features being put in the Pockets. Even the 12K doesn't have some of these updates.



Hey everyone,
Here are my initials thoughts on it as a BMPCC6K and 6K Pro user.


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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 10:34 am

I think the biggest bit of news with the Firmware 7.9 is that Gyro Data for Resolve Stabilization. 1-Minute mark is when Grant talks about it.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 10:45 am

Florent Piovesan wrote:Hey everyone,
Here are my initials thoughts on it as a BMPCC6K and 6K Pro user.



There is an error in your video - changing the colors of the peaking lines has been an option for a very long time.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 10:53 am

nicowieditz wrote:I guess the 6k G2 is for all users do not like the internal ND filters of the 6k pro and need the tilt monitor a better battery life.

With the regular screen, maybe the production cost is low enough that they can reduce the price later to take market share away from competitors at their price point. They reduced the price of the original BMPCC 6K $500 a few months after it's introduction. I remember when the 6K Pro first came out there were a lot of posts complaining about tints in the screen, resulting in RMAs. Maybe the yields of high brightness screens is a problem that raises production costs.

The internal NDs on the 6K Pro introduces a potential for mechanical problems. Maybe this camera would be for a user that needs a workhorse that can be bounced around with no moving parts that could break:

amanofcharacter wrote:

"...The ND filters were changing fine from 0 to 6 stops, using the + and - buttons. I just did my first test project on this weekend and last weekend.
On Day 2 of my test shoot, I noticed the + and - buttons would not work. Well, they would only respond every 4 clicks or so, and I could only get between 2 filters. I'm not sure which numbers they were, because on the Camera UI, the number of stops would not update. Well, sometimes it would say 6, change to 2, then never change again, even when 1 filter would kick in or out."

IvanTheEditor wrote:

"...My filter was stuck on the "-6 stops" NF filter and the image was pitch black dark. Interestingly enough, when I took the Tilta cage off the camera body the filters started working properly. ...I've now stopped using the internal ND filters and I only use ND filters on the lens."

Sarvavankumar wrote:

"...i had my nd filter struck on 2 and when i reset factory settings it stays at 6...it worked after a day n then stopped working after 4 days."

Re: Just Got My Pocket 6K Pro, ND Filters Broken..?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=145925

lukakheika wrote:

"I had the same exact issue. I can confirm that some Rock 'n Roll solved the issue. This was not a light hit on the top of the camera as suggested by blackmagic (Jazz People) but it was shacking and hitting against my leg multiple times while in the meantime messing up.with the ND switches (Rock Man). It eventually surrended and the ND are now working. Looks like we should trigger them from time to time even if not needed for a while, avoiding them tomger stucked maybe because of moisture or somethng."

Re: Internal ND filters on 6K Pocket Pro Not Functioning

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=144593&p=834663&hilit=+some+Rock+%27n+Roll+solved+the+issue+#p834663
Last edited by dondidnod on Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 10:53 am

timbutt2 wrote:I think the biggest bit of news with the Firmware 7.9 is that Gyro Data for Resolve Stabilization.


Agreed! This might be the feature that pushes me to finally get either the P4K or 6K. The stabilized footage looks quite nice.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 11:02 am

Nothing wrong with this updated model but I'm not sure who was really waiting for this. Ultimately most folks wanting these type of cameras are hoping for a box style pocket camera. At least I do.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 11:28 am

shebbe wrote:Nothing wrong with this updated model but I'm not sure who was really waiting for this. Ultimately most folks wanting these type of cameras are hoping for a box style pocket camera. At least I do.

Well, now there's also a need for upgrades to the 6K sensor. G2 would hopefully have brought higher frames rates and faster sensor readout like the UMPG2 did. Sadly that's not the case.

I wish they had also gone to CFExpress, and also announced a PL Mount Version as well.

This feels like a small stop gap until the next big camera. Whether that's a box or not.

I think next month we may see an URSA update since it will be two years since the 12K announcement around mid-July.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 12:48 pm

I was just about to upgrade from my P6k to a P6kpro + EVF but I may just go with the G2 now. Wasn't there also a focus shift issue with the internal ND's?
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 12:56 pm

John Griffin wrote:I was just about to upgrade from my P6k to a P6kpro + EVF but I may just go with the G2 now. Wasn't there also a focus shift issue with the internal ND's?


Honestly is there even a reason to upgrade from the P6K? Is there that much to gain. If I am not wrong the sensor and picture quality would stay the exact same.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 1:25 pm

jallen0 wrote:
John Griffin wrote:I was just about to upgrade from my P6k to a P6kpro + EVF but I may just go with the G2 now. Wasn't there also a focus shift issue with the internal ND's?


Honestly is there even a reason to upgrade from the P6K? Is there that much to gain. If I am not wrong the sensor and picture quality would stay the exact same.

3 very good reasons (Honestly) - Tilting screen, EVF and bigger battery.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 1:27 pm

Everyone is different and has different needs however for me personally those are not reason why i would, upgrade. I usually build out my Blackmagic cameras and none of those would seriously effect how I use the camera.

But I can see how they would be good for others.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 1:32 pm

Is it the same screen as the 6k or 6kPro? In terms of brightness.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 2:05 pm

One can only hope that this G2 release hasn't been too much of a "bump-in-the-road" of the development of a full-frame Pocket based on the RF mount.

I also really hope Blackmagic doesn't feel that they need to make 'low cost' products, but instead products that offer excellent price/performance.

I'd be very curious to see what BMD could offer in the $5K range for a handheld photo/video hybrid.

I've streamlined my setup and shoot an R5C currently, but I think I would much rather back Blackmagic Design than Canon. That said, Canon's RF mount lens lineup is strong and will get stronger.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 3:09 pm

John Griffin wrote:3 very good reasons (Honestly) - Tilting screen, EVF and bigger battery.

I don't think these are good enough reasons to upgrade from the P6K. At least not me. The tilting screen is easily taken cared with an external screen and a magic arm as most people do on set. I can use an external battery to shoot longer and have extra batts always. The EVF is a nice thing to have but it is not part of the camera and there are third party EVF that gives more flexibility.
If they take out the ND filters in the P6K G2, then I rather just hang on to the OG P6K until a better 6K camera with a box form factor comes to market. IMO, there's really no need to upgrade.
Last edited by Ellory Yu on Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 3:23 pm

This replaces the regular 6k, no? Methinks this is BMD just standardizing the 6k Pro body across the 6k models for some cost savings in manufacturing, to reduce the number of variations...
Last edited by soohyun on Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 3:37 pm

To me the BMPCC6K2 is not so much an attempt to get BMPCC6K shooters to upgrade as it is to give shooters moving to 6K recording an improved camera choice (for those who don’t need the convenience of built-in IRND filters).

This might be a very appealing camera for those who are new to Blackmagic cameras.

Based on my shoots at the recent music festival (using CinemaDNG Lossless 2K on the UM4.6K with B4 mount at ISO 800 and ProRes HQ 4K with PL mount on the BMPCC4K at ISO 1250, I’m good with what I have. I doubt there’s not “one more thing” in the BMD pipeline.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 4:15 pm

Ahmed Ghaffar wrote:Personally, I don’t understand this release. You basically take a 6K pro, remove the internal NDs and call it the 6K G2!!!


Yeah this seems a lot like a 6K less Pro G.05

They removed the main reasons I even considered and bought the 6K pro and called it a G2. This has not evolved, it's devolved...


EDIT**
I just realized this is a Pocket 6k update not a Pocket 6k Pro update... It all makes sense, they are just updating the battery, screen and such for 6K users....
Last edited by Davi Silveira on Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 5:08 pm

I handled the 6K G2 today at a local event.

The Blackmagic rep told me the flippy screen is a non-HDR version of the 6K Pro screen.

In short they're using the same body as the 6K Pro - they're identical but without NDs and a non-HDR screen.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 6:00 pm

eh. Seems like more of a stock purge to me. Aside from being 500 cheaper, I don't see its point. They don't make rigging accessories so unifying the body doesn't mean anything. Just a little lost here.

They made their own sensor, I assumed everything going forward was headed in that direction... like a pocket & ursa series with their new sensor.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 6:16 pm

Maybe the larger body can more easily accommodate a larger sensor in the future? The small battery and fixed screen were always a major fail on these cameras and there was no practical way of using them without an external battery and for anything other than eyelevel shooting a monitor was needed. With the non HDR screen the bigger battery will likley last even longer now. Not everyone wants to use a 'rig' and they are not ideally suited to rigging anyway.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 6:53 pm

i still think the Pocket 6k Pro, while a bit bulky, is still one of the best cameras i've ever owned. It's incredibly versatile with its feature set and it just sits in my kitchen so i can grab it and go to film literally anything at any time. It matches the 12k really well too!
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostThu Jun 23, 2022 11:26 pm

Adam Langdon wrote:It matches the 12k really well too!
They are certainly the closest out of the box of any BMD camera sensor/model pairing, but the 6K and BMD 12K are still quite different sensors. I find that even with matched lenses and careful white balancing, it requires detailed work with hue curves to get skin tones close to a visual match between the two. Definitely an easier task than compared with matching either one to the 4K Pocket. So, they can be made to match closely, but it does still take some work to get there.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostFri Jun 24, 2022 4:13 am

Interesting, but no sale here.

However I do remember everyone on these forums saying that the 6K was on borrowed time when the Pro came out. Here in Australia the 6K Pro is A$3,500 and the 6K G2 A$3,150, so I would say that on paper the G2 is not going to sell well as buying the Pro with NDs and a better screen is only A$350 more. No brainer really?

Time will tell.

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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostFri Jun 24, 2022 4:47 am

IMHO it seems a smart move by BMD. I know of more than one local studio that would use this version. For those who don’t need a daylight viewable screen nor ND filters (because they’re always shooting indoors and have full control over lighting), why bother paying more for the Pro?
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostFri Jun 24, 2022 5:00 am

Jamie LeJeune wrote:IMHO it seems a smart move by BMD. I know of more than one local studio that would use this version. For those who don’t need a daylight viewable screen nor ND filters (because they’re always shooting indoors and have full control over lighting), why bother paying more for the Pro?


Not a smart move. What about when it come to reselling people will want to avoid this G2.
When BMD release a camera firmware that adds nothing but with reference to "Manufacturing" well this is the hardware equivelent.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostFri Jun 24, 2022 5:15 am

Over the years I’ve sold 5 different BMD cameras, each one more than a year old when I sold it and each time the selling price was no less than 70% of the original MSRP.
BMD cameras in general seem to hold their value over time.
Regardless of that, if you’re concerned about the resale value of the least expensive s35 6K camera available, then yeah, buy a different one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostFri Jun 24, 2022 5:18 am

Overall, the 6K G2 is the wrong product to manufacture because we know what folks want and it is not another Pocket form factor. It’s a box form factor with all the functionality, including the nd filters but excluding the LCD of the Pocket 6K pro. The G1 pocket 6K was pretty good enough for those who doesn’t need the built in NDs. It’s too bad that BMD is not listening, or if they are listening, I wonder who those people are.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostFri Jun 24, 2022 6:01 am

IMHO, they are destocking parts to make room for a new 6 or 8K camera with a new cubic (a la Komodo) form factor, packed with exciting new features.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostFri Jun 24, 2022 7:53 am

BM responds to user complaints about the P4k/P6k ( battery life and non tilting screen) - and people complain BM is not listening....
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostFri Jun 24, 2022 7:57 am

Looks like they are trying to shift the overstocked old screens and the rolling shutter prone 6k sensor, etc. Most people considering a new BMD pocket camera would pay the extra £500 for internal ND and HDR monitor of the Pro model or go for the BMPCC4K instead.

If the 6k G2 came out in 2021 and the 6k Pro came out today, the G2 would have been EOL. They are going backward.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostFri Jun 24, 2022 8:05 am

Those are not that significant if one is wishing for updated box shaped micro camera :D

As for the PCC6k G2 update I feel the PCC 7.9 FW update that came with it is far more significant* than the G2. The G2 leaves me confused asking why. Maybe to get new users to the BMD system, but the price difference is not that much to pro.

*
- image stabilisation based on IMU, finally, ideally they would support also tracking the camera movements, but that likely will take an other 5 years.
- support for focus and zoom demand, but strange they did not add to that to 4k
- focus assist intensity adjustment
- Improved lens and auto focus performance
- and hopefully few bugs fixed, will be testing next week.

John Griffin wrote:BM responds to user complaints about the P4k/P6k ( battery life and non tilting screen) - and people complain BM is not listening....
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostFri Jun 24, 2022 12:54 pm

Hopefully there will be new Micro 4/3 cameras in the future too.
I'm not prepared to switch to EF-mount, given that my Blackmagic Pocket shares lenses with my Panasonic Gh6.

focus and zoom exist and work in the Bluetooth protocol of the BMPCC4K since the very beginning.
Zoom of cause only with the Panasonic 45-175 PZ and 14-45 PZ lenses and one Olympus lens.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostFri Jun 24, 2022 12:58 pm

Ellory Yu wrote: we know what folks want and it is not another Pocket form factor. It’s a box form factor


While I don't like the Pocket form factor for ergonomics,
I consider a box camera with no screen even worse.
What I wait for is a single-handed camcorder form factor with flipout-screen on the side
or a Hasselblatt/XC10 form factor with the screen in the back but the holding hand being horizontal or slanted on the right instead of being held with a vertical hand grip and tilted wrist in fron of your face.
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Chris Leutger

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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostFri Jun 24, 2022 5:09 pm

I was about to say that this would be a good deal for me. I only shoot outdoors and 6 stops is often not enough. So I may as well continue to use a variable ND. However, I see on the BM site that only the 6K Pro has the 1500 nit display. So, that's a kick in the teeth. I guess back to saving for the 6K Pro. After handling the 6K Pro in the store I'm less effusive about the box camera idea.
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WahWay

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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostFri Jun 24, 2022 6:05 pm

Chris Leutger wrote:I was about to say that this would be a good deal for me. I only shoot outdoors and 6 stops is often not enough. So I may as well continue to use a variable ND. However, I see on the BM site that only the 6K Pro has the 1500 nit display. So, that's a kick in the teeth. I guess back to saving for the 6K Pro. After handling the 6K Pro in the store I'm less effusive about the box camera idea.


Why not use a combo of internal and external ND?
I find an external Hoya PROND work pretty well in addition with the internal ND. For example if you need 8 stops or 10 stops just use a Hoya PROND 6 stops then use that with internal 2 or 4 stops. Roger Deakins claims to have done that but I believe he uses Arri full spectrum ND filters with his Arri camera internal ND.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostSun Jun 26, 2022 1:15 am

WahWay wrote:Why not use a combo of internal and external ND?
I find an external Hoya PROND work pretty well in addition with the internal ND. For example if you need 8 stops or 10 stops just use a Hoya PROND 6 stops then use that with internal 2 or 4 stops. Roger Deakins claims to have done that but I believe he uses Arri full spectrum ND filters with his Arri camera internal ND.


That would be my plan. I was just saying that initially, I would go for the lower price if it was only the ND's that were out of the camera. But since the higher nit monitor is out of the G2 well, I'm back to looking at the 6K pro and yes, I'll be using both the internal and my current external ND. With summer travel being so expensive this will likely be a fall purchase...perhaps winter if rental car/gas/flight prices stay so high...
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostSun Jun 26, 2022 2:25 am

John Griffin wrote:BM responds to user complaints about the P4k/P6k ( battery life and non tilting screen) - and people complain BM is not listening....


Fascinating.

Actual improvements to an existing but now superseded camera enough to call it a G2 and people call it a downgrade and talk about selling excess parts.

So many experts.

I think it’s pretty cool that the original 6k now has a tilt screen, better battery and the option for an external EVF for the same damn price.

JB
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostSun Jun 26, 2022 8:24 am

I second every point of this.

The pockets are cameras to be carried around, they are excellent for documentary. IMHO, the better battery and the EVF alone are worth it. If you want to have a small pack and shoot in full daylight, even the additional NITs of the Pro don't help much, but the EVF does. Being OLED I'm pretty sure they last longer with the battery than with the HDR monitor.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostSun Jun 26, 2022 8:51 am

There is many ways to look at it, those who expected a new camera where likely disappointed, but when looking it as streamlining the Pocket lineup, it is now well in line, expect maybe the G2 should be 1,795. or Pro 2,795 to separate them ;)

Screenshot 2022-06-26 at 11.45.49.jpg
Screenshot 2022-06-26 at 11.45.49.jpg (246.28 KiB) Viewed 866 times


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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostSun Jun 26, 2022 11:07 am

Yes there should be more seperation between the prices of the 3 models but I stick to my poiint being, had the G2 came out last year and the Pro came out today the G2 ought to be EOL, but now its a new product.

Actually the BMPCC4K camera should not really be considered a lower end model to the original BMPCC6K or the G2, its a MFT mount with option for speed booster and has 75fps at 4k 2.4:1 and better rolling shutter so rightly it should be in the current line-up.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostSun Jun 26, 2022 12:11 pm

Kim Janson wrote:There is many ways to look at it,

Screenshot 2022-06-26 at 11.45.49.jpg





Exactly. All the bitching is from people that already own cameras and don't think of this as an upgrade worth buying.

Look at this graphic as a new to BMD customer and it makes total sense.

jb
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John Paines

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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostSun Jun 26, 2022 12:45 pm

It's a 6K camera for under $2000 with professional codecs and a "free" post-production package which was cheap at $999 when it was "only" a color grading application. And based at least on the youtubes yout so far, gyro is going to be much better for most operators than a gimbal, even with the crop.

OTOH, if you already own a 6K (or 4K, for that matter), it's the new unseen cameras which are exciting.
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostSun Jun 26, 2022 12:48 pm

i've heard from several former BMD camera users that they are switching back to the Pocket 6k (G2).
It is still insane how incredible the quality of the Pocket Line really is.
I think the lineup feels more complete now, even without a 4k Pro version.

I'm wondering if we'll see a 3-tier option for the Ursa Mini's now... i mean, technically, we do with the G2, Broadcast G2, and the 12k...

making a way for another design??
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Re: So - a new PCC6k G2 is here

PostSun Jun 26, 2022 2:04 pm

It may be that there’s room for another design that might appeal to both current and future customers. Is there one element that distinguishes a BMD camera line from another? I think Adam may be thinking of a line with new physical body design such as the URSA Micro.

When the unique 12K sensor was released, I thought that was a distinguishing factor and there would be a line of 12K or rather RGBWWW CFA cameras for those seeking the ultimate tasty colour in different bodies.
So far that’s not happening.

I’m a great fan of the Dual ISO sensor and that has appeared now in several cameras of different physical designs. To me that sensor is so different as to distinguish it as a line of cameras.

Arguably yet another sensor that embodies something like Canon’s Dual Pixel Auto Focus might also become a distinguishing line of cameras or the new sensor only appear on that mythical box camera line which would really suit its auto focus to gimbal uses.

Or is the mount a distinguishing factor so there will be a range of L-mount BMD cameras? Many perspectives but their next truly ‘different’ camera will hint what BMD considers a worthy new line to breathe new life into the camera product.
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