Samsung T7 works after update?

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kambor

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Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSun Jul 31, 2022 11:38 am

Hi friends, first post here. I've noticed recently on youtube some reports of people that have tested the T7 samsung ssd after the 7.9 update stating that the drive now works perfectly on the BMPCC 4k in every recording quality. But still, it's not in the approved media list, so I don't know if the videos are total BS, just anecdotal data, or what.

I ask because Samsung discontinued the 1 and 2Tb T5's, and who knows what their plans are for the 500Gb disks. I currently use T5, in my region there's not much of an offer, so the alternative pretty much would be Sandisk extreme ssd or jump right to CFast.

Anyone has information about any of this? I'm aware of the buffer issue on the T7, but maybe 7.9 changed the way the BMPCC writes to disk to make it more efficient? Thanks for the wonderful community.
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kambor

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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostFri Aug 05, 2022 9:10 am

Anyone with a T7 and last firmware that can make a quick test?
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John Brawley

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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostFri Aug 05, 2022 1:38 pm

It’s not on the BMD list. It’s specifically not on the list, not because they haven’t tested it, but because it failed to qualify.

Many people have ignored that and used it anyway. Some have been able to. Some have had constant problems.

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rNeil H

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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostFri Aug 05, 2022 2:30 pm

The T7 has a lesser buffer size. It's fast only as long as your total sustained load isn't that big.

You might get by fine shooting heavily compressed smaller file sizes. Or ... might not.

A famous movie quote seems to fit here ...

"Are you feeling lucky today, punk?"

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kambor

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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostFri Aug 05, 2022 3:03 pm

Oh, I thought maybe BMD had found a way. There was a youtuber recently testing the T7 4k 8:1 but it was only a few seconds, which makes sense.

Thank you all by your response, I'll keep hoarding surviving T5s then :lol:
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Johannes Jonsson

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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSat Aug 06, 2022 2:45 am

rNeil H wrote:The T7 has a lesser buffer size. It's fast only as long as your total sustained load isn't that big.

You might get by fine shooting heavily compressed smaller file sizes. Or ... might not.

A famous movie quote seems to fit here ...

"Are you feeling lucky today, punk?"

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk


The problem wit T7 is that it has a buffer, T7 uses that buffer to get its high speed and that only works for writing sequential files like for example photos but drops below the speed of T5 when the buffer fills up after few frames when writing non sequential files like videos.
T5 does not have buffer but that disk has higher speed then on T7 after T7 has filled the buffer.
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSat Aug 06, 2022 10:55 am

I am using my T7 on the Pocket 6k and the Ursa 12k without any issues in high quality parameters. Firmware 7.9 had no influence because I worked with my T7 before upgrading to 7.9 on my 6k.
Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k, BMPCC 6k
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John Brawley

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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Aug 08, 2022 3:06 pm

Using a T7 is like driving on a temp spare tyre.

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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Aug 08, 2022 4:08 pm

I do all my documentary stuff with the T7 and I had no drop outs after recording 90 min at 8k 60 or 45 min in 12k 50. If it is a spare tyre, then it is a great spare tyre. :)

Here is a short video to demonstrate it for 01:20 min in 12k50 at comp 8:1 - as expected no issues.

Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k, BMPCC 6k
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Aug 09, 2022 10:17 pm

That's what I mean, according to BM calculations you're recording 753Mb/s there, the pocket shouldn't have a problem.

Maybe Samsung changed the drives along the way, after they were tested by BM? I mean, there's proof out there of people working and it doesn't appear to fail, but if it hasn't changed it doesn't make sense to me.
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Aug 09, 2022 10:25 pm

kambor wrote:That's what I mean, according to BM calculations you're recording 753Mb/s there, the pocket shouldn't have a problem.

Maybe Samsung changed the drives along the way, after they were tested by BM? I mean, there's proof out there of people working and it doesn't appear to fail, but if it hasn't changed it doesn't make sense to me.


I do not know if something changed. I cannot use the T5 because I get drop outs on the Pocket 6k and of course on the 12k, too. I bought the T7 6 months ago, did not format the disc since then and have no issues since I bought it.

IMO it could not has something to do with the firmware of the pockets. So, what is different from my T7 to your T7?

Can you show a similar short video how the issue is appearing? Did you change the cable from the disc to the camera?

On my 12k I changed my USB-C cable from BMD the 3rd time. Now since I am using Thunderbolt cables I have no more issues.
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kambor

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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 12:25 am

First, thanks for your video!

I want to clarify, I don't own a T7, I currently managed to source two 500Gb T5, but since they're being discontinued I need an alternative, and stumbled across this T7 thing. T5 works fine on the 4K, and actually it should work for the Ursa too, but the bottleneck is the USB 3.1 gen 1 protocol for the highest quality (Q0) when it jumps in bitrate.

Maybe the T7 works fine in constant bitrate modes, but drops on variable bitrate?
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 12:46 am

Please give me an example how do you know that the T7 will produce drops? What can I test for you that I can assure you using the T7 is without issues or how can I produce your issues?

Please tell me.
Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k, BMPCC 6k
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 12:53 am

Few seconds ago I tested the T7 with 12k 50 @Q0 and got no issues and no drops. I stopped again the recording after 1:20 min. I tested on my Pocket 6k 50 off speed in full resolution @Q0 and got again no issues and no drops. The T7 works perfectly here, too. I stopped recording after 03:10 min.

What should I do on my Pocket to create drops? Please tell me.
Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k, BMPCC 6k
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 1:01 am

To max out the Q0 data rate, put your widest lens on and shoot something with a lot of fine detail in focus.

Trees with leaves for example.

Q data rates spike with fine detail that is in focus, NOT with movement as many think.

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nicowieditz

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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 1:22 am

Ok, I wait until the night is over and take a focus on trees on my house and see how it works. Thanks for now.
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 1:34 am

Don’t forget to shoot a deep stop like F8

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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 6:21 am

John Brawley wrote:Don’t forget to shoot a deep stop like F8

JB



Thanks John for your instructions. I hope a test on my Pocket is not necessary.

OK. 3 hours Done. 2:4.1 / Q0 / T8 / SSD: T7 2GB Lens: Xeen CF 24mm

12k 75 @Q0 T8 stopped after 3 seconds
12k 50 @Q0 T8 stopped after 3 seconds
12k 40 @Q0 T8 stopped after 3:43 min
12k 30 @Q0 T8 stopped after 28:11 min (good value)

8k 160 @Q0 T8 stopped after 7 seconds
8k 120 @Q0 T8 stopped after 15 seconds
8k 60 @Q0 T8 stopped after 01:25 min
8k 50 @Q0 T8 stopped after 11:16 min
8k 30 @Q0 T8 works without drop after 33 min

U2.SSD: Samsung 7,68 TB with SSD Recorder (I stopped recording after 15 min)

12k 75 @Q0 T8 stopped after 2:58 min (a very good value)
12k 50 @Q0 T8 stopped after 3:21 min
12k 40 @Q0 T8 no stop after 15 min
12k 30 @Q0 T8 no stop after 15 min

8k 160 @Q0 T8 stopped after 07:52 min
8k 160 @Q5 T8 no stop ( Sorry, I had to do this :) )
8k 120 @Q0 T8 stopped after 11:05 min
8k 60 @Q0 T8 no stop
8k 50 @Q0 T8 no stop
8k 30 @Q0 T8 no stop


Final Thoughts: After almost 3 hours testing the T7 does a very good job. My Sandisk 4TB or my old T5 1TB did not reach any of these values on my 12k. The U2. SSD's reach a higher frame rate without drops, of course they are faster than the T7.

But at the end I was very happy to see that the U2 SSD passed the test in 8k 160 @Q5, what is still a very good quality.

I do not see serious issues on the T7 comparable to a Sandisk 4TB or a T5 1TB
Cameras: BM Ursa Mini Pro 12k, BMPCC 6k
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 10:48 am

24mm isn’t really that wide.

I’ve had media max headroom even on CFAST using 15mm or 12mm lenses.

It’s one of the variables that is the reason you can get so many different results.

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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 2:02 pm

Wow, that's very interesting! Thank you for taking the time to test this. At least now we have a reference of settings we can or cannot use with this drive. If money is no object sure, CFast sounds like a lot of fun really. But for more budget concerned people (like me, hehe) these tests are invaluable.

Even using CFast, imagine if you're recording on location and your card goes south, It would be a lot easier to source a T7 if you know how to avoid the troublesome configs.
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Samsung T7 works after update?

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 5:15 pm

What I like about the Wise Advanced products is that they test their media with their own Blackmagic cameras and they also rely on BMD Support’s testing to confirm their efficacy for motion picture purposes in general. I think Angelbird also tests using cameras. Wise also ensures their data controller is designed with the same block size as BMD uses writing their video data. And they publish read and write speeds.

Some manufacturers that are pursuing the fastest possible cards may only publish maximum burst read speed using various block sizes that may be more applicable to personal computing in general and are not tested for sustained media speeds used in cameras. They may also use buffers that offer greatly accelerated performance, but cannot sustain those speeds when the buffer is full. They may be designed without provisioning areas so that errors in blocks reduce the available storage over time. A computer user’s experience when there is a problem may not be very impactful if the action is manually initiated and can simply be repeated. Contrast that with use in a cinema camera where errors can be much more consequential and costly.

It’s understandable for a consumer to select the lower cost item when the specs appear to be comparable. But when it comes to media and camera equipment, rely more on recommendations from other users than simply price. This isn’t just true for media but a great many items where better performance or longevity or otherwise better fit for purpose will usually cost more but be economical in the long run.

“What should I buy?” The answer is often another question: “What is your budget?” In other words, buy the best you can comfortably manage over time.
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostThu Aug 18, 2022 10:39 pm

hy to all, and thanks for your test! Recently I adquired 2 x Ursa broadcast G2 and in 2 week we begin the shoot of a history documentary. I haven't updated to the new firmware yet.
I pretend film in 6K RAW constant bitrate 8:1 in 25 and 50 fps. This afternoom I made a test with my Samsung T7 1TB and continuous recording. So I setuped the camera the counter recording indicated 1 hour and 25 minutes with ssd 1 tb but the recording stopped in 68 minutes and one exclamation mark appear, but after I pushed the record button and continued the shooting. I had a lens Sigma 18-35. Any suggest to my next documentary? I must be calm with 4 Samsung shield SSD 1Tb? Thanks
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 7:18 am

If you want reliability, don't use the T7.
The software may be free, but the hardware needed for smooth performance is not.

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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 11:51 am

so, which is your suggest? Based on your experience, what kind of disc should I use? thanks
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Aug 29, 2022 8:24 pm

I echo that question.

Last year, when Samsung T5 drives were available, they were even on sale here in Ireland. So I could heartily recommend a 500GB model as a cheap way into the game, for my undergrad students.

This year there are no T5 drives available, only the T7, advertised everywhere as being an improvement. Though as we know from this forum, they're not optimised for video throughput due to cache changes.

Since students will not be recording at high bit rates, I think that I am going to have to recommend the T7. The few individuals who grow out of this drive will still find a use as utility (backup or transfer).

Though I would be more at ease recommending a better drive from the get-go, it's unlikely any such will be available for purchase. Such is the dilemma.
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Aug 29, 2022 8:47 pm

The T5 is still offered here by Amazon.
The software may be free, but the hardware needed for smooth performance is not.

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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Aug 29, 2022 11:16 pm

Yes, T5 500Gb seems like it's not been discontinued YET. But it looks like it will be at some point.
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostTue Aug 30, 2022 10:45 pm

I wouldn't touch the T7 or T5 with a ten foot pole.
These use bottom of the barrel low quality TLC nand thats meant for the consumer market that won't notice the drops in speed while writing (all NAND has good read speeds) while being quite expensive for what they offer.

Instead of buying these consumer oriented drives, we use StarTech USB3 enclosures with Samsung 850 Pro (or 860 Pro) drives on both Ursa 4.6K and Pocket 4K cameras.

Via USB3 directly on Pocket and via Esata to CFAST adapter on Ursa (plus a phone usb battery for powering up the enclosure - on Pocket the enclosure is powered via the USB port).

The 850 and 860 Pro use 2bit MLC NAND which is the ideal NAND (besides the more expensive SLC) to have in a ssd.

Unfortunately Samsung is heading towards the cost saving at all costs with even with their newer nvme drives. 980Pro NVME switched from MLC to TLC because its "good enough".
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 2:04 pm

VMFXBV wrote:I wouldn't touch the T7 or T5 with a ten foot pole.
These use bottom of the barrel low quality TLC nand thats meant for the consumer market that won't notice the drops in speed while writing (all NAND has good read speeds) while being quite expensive for what they offer.

Instead of buying these consumer oriented drives, we use StarTech USB3 enclosures with Samsung 850 Pro (or 860 Pro) drives on both Ursa 4.6K and Pocket 4K cameras.

Via USB3 directly on Pocket and via Esata to CFAST adapter on Ursa (plus a phone usb battery for powering up the enclosure - on Pocket the enclosure is powered via the USB port).

The 850 and 860 Pro use 2bit MLC NAND which is the ideal NAND (besides the more expensive SLC) to have in a ssd.

Unfortunately Samsung is heading towards the cost saving at all costs with even with their newer nvme drives. 980Pro NVME switched from MLC to TLC because its "good enough".


I have used multiple T5's with multiple Pocket 4K cameras for prolonged shoots for a couple of years now. Haven't had any problems.
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostSun Oct 02, 2022 3:34 pm

Milen Mladenov wrote:
I have used multiple T5's with multiple Pocket 4K cameras for prolonged shoots for a couple of years now. Haven't had any problems.


Good for you, I wouldn't trust them.
850/860Pro > Evo > T5 > T7. In that order. T7 seems to be the worst of the bunch.
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 11:09 am

VMFXBV wrote:
Milen Mladenov wrote:
I have used multiple T5's with multiple Pocket 4K cameras for prolonged shoots for a couple of years now. Haven't had any problems.


Good for you, I wouldn't trust them.
850/860Pro > Evo > T5 > T7. In that order. T7 seems to be the worst of the bunch.


But based on what? I shoot with these drives every week for years now. I understand your insights in general but they are not really practical. T5 is an approved media and there are a lot of rigs and accessories made specifically for that drive (Tilta, SmallRig, etc.) Putting an 850/860 Pro or Evo on a Pocket sends you into the shittyrigs realm almost for sure. I think that the most important thing is to have your attached drive and cables secured properly. I have had drop frames from CFast cards, though.

Cheers,
Milen
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 11:21 am

Milen Mladenov wrote:
VMFXBV wrote:
Milen Mladenov wrote:
I have used multiple T5's with multiple Pocket 4K cameras for prolonged shoots for a couple of years now. Haven't had any problems.


Good for you, I wouldn't trust them.
850/860Pro > Evo > T5 > T7. In that order. T7 seems to be the worst of the bunch.


But based on what? I shoot with these drives every week for years now. I understand your insights in general but they are not really practical. T5 is an approved media and there are a lot of rigs and accessories made specifically for that drive (Tilta, SmallRig, etc.) Putting an 850/860 Pro or Evo on a Pocket sends you into the shittyrigs realm almost for sure. I think that the most important thing is to have your attached drive and cables secured properly. I have had drop frames from CFast cards, though.

Cheers,
Milen

I somewhat agree to this response. These drives are not suitable at high resolution in BRAW 3:1 or Q0 or Prores HQ therefore those who attempts to use them at these settings will think of them to be the worst of the bunch. On the contrary, recording on them with higher compression codecs and/or lower resolutions will just be fine. Also, secure your cables and use high quality cables will ensure you’ll encounter less issues writing out to this drives.
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 11:54 am

Milen Mladenov wrote:
But based on what? I shoot with these drives every week for years now. I understand your insights in general but they are not really practical. T5 is an approved media and there are a lot of rigs and accessories made specifically for that drive (Tilta, SmallRig, etc.) Putting an 850/860 Pro or Evo on a Pocket sends you into the shittyrigs realm almost for sure. I think that the most important thing is to have your attached drive and cables secured properly. I have had drop frames from CFast cards, though.

Cheers,
Milen


Based on what I wrote a couple of posts above. Quality of NAND used in them.
Putting a 850 in an enclosure is the same as a T5. Maybe even better since the enclosure end has a firmer usb connection.

You only need the extra battery on an Ursa since the Ursa can't power the external SSD. Older Ursa that is, maybe the G2/12K can power SSDs via USB.
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 2:23 pm

VMFXBV wrote:
Milen Mladenov wrote:
But based on what? I shoot with these drives every week for years now. I understand your insights in general but they are not really practical. T5 is an approved media and there are a lot of rigs and accessories made specifically for that drive (Tilta, SmallRig, etc.) Putting an 850/860 Pro or Evo on a Pocket sends you into the shittyrigs realm almost for sure. I think that the most important thing is to have your attached drive and cables secured properly. I have had drop frames from CFast cards, though.

Cheers,
Milen


Based on what I wrote a couple of posts above. Quality of NAND used in them.
Putting a 850 in an enclosure is the same as a T5. Maybe even better since the enclosure end has a firmer usb connection.

You only need the extra battery on an Ursa since the Ursa can't power the external SSD. Older Ursa that is, maybe the G2/12K can power SSDs via USB.


Nope putting an 850 into an enclosure is not the same as putting a T5, because you have rigs that are made specifically for this form factor. They secure the drive and cables and make the swapping of drives a quick, easy, and relatively safe operation. The 850 route sends you into the shittyrigs universe. Don't get me wrong I am a fan of it but I can't say it's always reliable. The thing that I am saying is that you may be right on the topic of the NAND but it doesn't matter if you have other parts of the rig that are not reliable or properly secured and if you are attaching DYI 850/60 or whatever. The bottom line is T5's work and they work just fine for most of the cases that you will need them to work for a budget camera like the pocket. This is proven from years and hundreds of hours shot on this drives by multiple people in this (let's call it baldly) Industry.

Cheers,
Milen
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Re: Samsung T7 works after update?

PostMon Oct 03, 2022 3:23 pm

Milen Mladenov wrote:The 850 route sends you into the shittyrigs universe.


Sounds like a you problem. Lets agree to disagree here and that's all.

I'm sorry if you think putting a ssd in an enclosure is not the same as a ssd in an enclosure (T5) :shock: just because some people make some rig for the T5...There are universal holders made by Smallrig (and I'm sure others)...

Milen Mladenov wrote: This is proven from years and hundreds of hours shot on this drives by multiple people in this (let's call it baldly) Industry.


Except the people on this forum where the T7/T5 doesn't work... it works...I would call this anecdotal evidence.
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