These days BMMCC controller

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Shoichiro Yanagida

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These days BMMCC controller

PostFri Jul 24, 2020 8:31 am

Since Blackmagic Design released BMMCC, it's been about five years. But it is still sold as a brand new nowadays.
For me, it's the first cinema camera, and it's working for the location scouting or a small project.
So, as the others so, I decided to develop the controller, and it finally becomes some kind of working prototype today.

The main concepts are the following based on my requirements.

1. Tinyness.
The tinyness is the importance because of the tinyness of the camera. If the tinyness is not important, we should buy the bigger and more reliable one sold by CINEGEARPRO.

2. Minimum function.
Just control the camera properties (and a few for the lens).
If the focus or the zoom must be controlled, we should use the LANC controller.
If the other function is required, we should build another external device.

3. Modularized.
Must be fit on 'PWM(S.Bus)+LANC+DC BMMCC Angle Expansion Box Module'.
viewtopic.php?t=56186

4. Hardware Extendability.
The 5V, GND, and two digital pins can be used through the 3.5mm 4 pole TRRS jack.

5. Software Extendability.
The main board is Arduino Nano. The firmware will be on Github. You can fork and write your firmware for free.

The current issues about cost are the following.

1. Case
3D printed cases are cheep but cheesy. CNC Aluminum case are sturdy but expensive.

2. Compliance
Mainly RoHS and CE are required to sell worldwide, but the parts are more expensive.

I wish to sell around 100 - 200 USD.

***

Prerequisity:

1. Breakout box for SBus
Use 'PWM(S.Bus)+LANC+DC BMMCC Angle Expansion Box Module'.
viewtopic.php?t=56186

2. 3.5mm 3-pole TRS Cable

3. Camera Remote settings.
Set Remote settings as follows. Simply set the channels from top to bottom.

Rec Start/Stop: SBus 1
Iris: SBus 2
(Focus : SBus 3. Disabled. You can enabled on your forked firmware)
Auto Focus: SBus 4
(Zoom: SBus 5. Disabled. You can enabled on your forked firmware)
ISO: SBus 6
Shutter Angle: SBus 7
White Balance: SBus 8
Audio Level: SBus 9
Frame Rate: SBus 10
Codec: SBus 11


Hardware and Operation Manual:

in_case_numbered.jpg
in_case_numbered.jpg (44.56 KiB) Viewed 5811 times


1. 0.49" 64x32 OLED Display.

2-1. Rotary Encoder with Push-Switch 1.
Rotation: for menu navigation.
Rotate CW: Go to next menu.
Rotate CCW: Go to previous menu.
The menu order is: MIC(Audio Levels) > FPS(Frame Rate) > SA(Shutter Angle) > A(Iris) > ISO > WB(White Balance) > > CODEC
menu_oparation.jpg
menu_oparation.jpg (97.59 KiB) Viewed 5645 times


Pushing:
2-Click: REC Start/Stop
3-Click: Trigger AutoFocus
4-Click: Rotate Display CW
5-Click: Rotate Display CCW
x-Click: Unassigned. (You can extend your forked firmware)
x-Clicks and Long Press: Unassigned. (You can extend your forked firmware)
NOTE: May vary in final version.

2-2. Rotary Encoder with Push-Switch 2.
Rotation: for value control.
Rotate CW: Icrement value.
Rotate CCW: Decrement value.

Pushing:
3-Click and Long Press: Reset all values.
Other: Unassigned. (You can extend your forked firmware)
NOTE: May vary in final version.

3. 3.5mm 3-pole TRS Jack
Connect to camera.
Tip: 5V, Ring: SBus, Sleeve: GND.

4. 3.5mm 4-pole TRRS Jack
Connect to external device.
Tip: 5V, Ring: D4,D5, Sleeve: GND.

5. USB Port for firmware updates.

***

Any comments or suggestions are welcome!
I'll post the progress!
Thank you!
Last edited by Shoichiro Yanagida on Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Shoichiro Yanagida

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostFri Jul 24, 2020 2:39 pm

Here's some capture.
parts.jpg
parts.jpg (59.05 KiB) Viewed 5803 times

assembled.jpg
assembled.jpg (42.1 KiB) Viewed 5803 times

in_case.jpg
in_case.jpg (47.6 KiB) Viewed 5803 times
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Shoichiro Yanagida

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostFri Jul 24, 2020 2:44 pm

Menu:
menu_all.jpg
menu_all.jpg (93.44 KiB) Viewed 5803 times


You can use this in any direction by Display Rotation:
rorate_all.jpg
rorate_all.jpg (87.04 KiB) Viewed 5803 times


Mounting image:
mounted_3_4.jpg
mounted_3_4.jpg (55.25 KiB) Viewed 5803 times
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Shoichiro Yanagida

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostFri Jul 24, 2020 2:47 pm

More mouting images:
mounted_1.jpg
mounted_1.jpg (41.91 KiB) Viewed 5803 times

mounted_2.jpg
mounted_2.jpg (38.92 KiB) Viewed 5803 times
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Dmytro Shijan

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSat Jul 25, 2020 3:21 am

Wow, so tiny! Seems this is first controller compatible with my Expansion Box without modification. Great start!

Some quick notes:
- Instant firmware version "v1.0.0" on screen is useless. it only adds visual noise and takes space.. Most devices show firmware version on splash screen.

- Rotary encoders are so close one to other that is seems not too easy to operate with them.

- It may be some confusion which encoder for menu, and which is for value. I really prefer 2 basic buttons for menu navigation. Maybe use 2 x 12mm tact buttons instead ? or some tiny 4 position + click 3D Joystick ?

- I also prefer separate record button instead of double click.

- Here is mounting idea (just came to my head when i see controller near nato rail) - make body edge with hole for Nato rail. So you can just quickly slide controller on Nato rail on the side of BMMCC camera cage or monitor cage.
All my custom made accessories for BMMCC/BMMSC now available here https://lavky.com/radioproektor/
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Dmytro Shijan

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSat Jul 25, 2020 6:37 am

Or here is even more simpler logic idea for single pot operation:
1-Click to enter menu.
Rotation: for menu navigation.
1-Click to select and exit menu.
Rotation: for value control

and same optional multi clicks:
2-Click: REC Start/Stop
3-Click: Trigger AutoFocus
4-Click: Rotate Display CW
5-Click: Rotate Display CCW


+ some TRS jack expansion port to connect External record button on/off switch to control record/stop.
All my custom made accessories for BMMCC/BMMSC now available here https://lavky.com/radioproektor/
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Shoichiro Yanagida

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSat Jul 25, 2020 7:53 am

Thank you for comment, Shijan. And also thanks to your wonderful breakout box.

Dmitry Shijan wrote:- Instant firmware version "v1.0.0" on screen is useless. it only adds visual noise and takes space.. Most devices show firmware version on splash screen.
you're right. I'll fix it.

Dmitry Shijan wrote:- Rotary encoders are so close one to other that is seems not too easy to operate with them.
- It may be some confusion which encoder for menu, and which is for value. I really prefer 2 basic buttons for menu navigation. Maybe use 2 x 12mm tact buttons instead ? or some tiny 4 position + click 3D Joystick ?
Dmitry Shijan wrote:Or here is even more simpler logic idea for single pot operation:
1-Click to enter menu.
Rotation: for menu navigation.
1-Click to select and exit menu.
Rotation: for value control
Yes, I think that encoders' knobs are too close, too. But I figured out the way to operate fast and easily with one finger (see the animation gif from the link below).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e5fT7j ... XU0M4/view

And I also consider the buttons or the joystick but there are no tiny and affordable parts in the market at my design time. So I chose the encoder with switch.
Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. I'll update with your suggestion.
Dmitry Shijan wrote:- Here is mounting idea (just came to my head when i see controller near nato rail) - make body edge with hole for Nato rail. So you can just quickly slide controller on Nato rail on the side of BMMCC camera cage or monitor cage.
Thank you for your idea. Unfortunately, the body has no room to hole. But the mounting parts are updating now. Please check it later.

noroom.jpg
noroom.jpg (61.93 KiB) Viewed 5722 times

Dmitry Shijan wrote:- I also prefer separate record button instead of double click.
Dmitry Shijan wrote:+ some TRS jack expansion port to connect External record button on/off switch to control record/stop.
That's why I add '4. 3.5mm 4-pole TRRS Jack' to this device and will open-source the firmware. The preferred Rec on/off function is dependent on the person (with LANC? wooden grip? simple red button? etc.). So I decided to depend on other products for keeping high modularity.

Thank you for your advice! I'll post the updates! Keep in touch!
Last edited by Shoichiro Yanagida on Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSat Jul 25, 2020 11:45 am

This looks really nice.

I have the last ever sold One Little Remote and I really like it although some of it’s rotator controls are fiddly.
Looking forward to see how your concept progresses.
I will get one as soon they are available.
Grew up with a Nikon FM - Evolving with a BMMCC
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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSat Jul 25, 2020 12:38 pm

Username wrote:I have the last ever sold One Little Remote and I really like it although some of it’s rotator controls are fiddly.
Looking forward to see how your concept progresses.
I will get one as soon they are available.


I'm also interested in this -- I have and like the One Little Remote but the big problem for me is that it doesn't work well with an external power supply (V-mount battery or Dmitry's battery enclosure module): it powers off and on randomly. It's fine if you're using the regular Canon battery on the back of the camera, but I haven't found a way for it to work reliably with external power.
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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSat Jul 25, 2020 1:52 pm

Ahh yes. I forgot about the stupid 5V input when fed from cameras 7,4V battery and 12V inputs. Where the 12v rail have a 14v max input voltage.

I simply solved it by crimping my own flat cable without the 12V pin connected to the OLR. Instead I’m feeding it with 5V output from camera.
That way I’m able to use Dmitrys battery solution :)
Grew up with a Nikon FM - Evolving with a BMMCC
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Shoichiro Yanagida

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSat Jul 25, 2020 2:31 pm

Thank you for your interest!

I'm sorry but I don't have One Little Remote. But the problem looks like to be occurred by conflicting two different concepts about external power. I hope my product solves this problem.

By the way, here's the operation diagram.
Since BMMCC has no display, we must look at the monitor while changing the camera settings.
So the controller should be tiny, and sit by the monitor.
And also its menu flow should be the same as BMMCC.

I hope this is an intuitive and good for quick operation.
menu_oparation.jpg
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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSat Jul 25, 2020 3:11 pm

I am really happy that people are still developing new tools for this excellent but now rather ancient (in digital terms) and outmoded camera. I have two of them and plan to continue using them as long as they last.
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Dmytro Shijan

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSat Jul 25, 2020 7:36 pm

Here some concept sketches of integrated NATO clamp idea i told earlier. Also sketches show single pot controller and square screen for better flip screen UI appearance.
Image
Image
Image
Image

Ergonomics is very important. It is possible that in reality people may prefer to mount it in direction like this:
Image
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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSun Jul 26, 2020 2:58 am

Shoichiro, love the idea, count me in when you get it out. I'll buy one! I also have Dmitry's power enclosure module. Definitely the best for this camera.

Dmitry, I like your idea of NATO clamp, it would be great if it could be done that way.
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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSun Jul 26, 2020 3:00 am

Shoichiro, forgot to mention, I'd suggest using a CNC Aluminum case and I personally wouldn't mind paying for the extra cost. Like you said, 3D printed cases usually look cheap.
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Dmytro Shijan

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSun Jul 26, 2020 3:21 am

Yep, raw 3D printed enclosure is great for test samples but for final product it looks like crap. It could be sanded and painted with spray paint (similar to my v1 Expansion Box), but this process require huge amount of time and hand work. Quality 3D printed stuff is very slow and high cost.
This tiny sized CNC enclosure will not cost a lot compare to your expected total package price. I can recommend Lanparte CNC service. They usually can do 50 copies batch in 2-3 weeks and ship worldwide.
CNC require curves based .STEP format drawing in Fusion 360 or SolidWorks. CNC machine will not work from polygon based .STL model.

Integrated NATO clamp is sort of questionable idea. It will add some limits and will add more cost to CNC manufacture due complex shape and larger aluminum brick.
But anyway, just box is not enough. It should be a part of universal system. Somehow integrated to cage, to rod clamps, 1/4-20 screw mounting point(s) or pass through hole, maybe some partial anti-twist Arri rosette or Arri pins, or rubber pad.

Shoichiro Yanagida wrote:By the way, here's the operation diagram.
Since BMMCC has no display, we must look at the monitor while changing the camera settings.
So the controller should be tiny, and sit by the monitor.
And also its menu flow should be the same as BMMCC.

I hope this is an intuitive and good for quick operation.
menu_oparation.jpg


Great logic.
All my custom made accessories for BMMCC/BMMSC now available here https://lavky.com/radioproektor/
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Shoichiro Yanagida

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSun Jul 26, 2020 7:08 am

sijiadin wrote:Shoichiro, love the idea, count me in when you get it out. I'll buy one!
Thank you!

sijiadin wrote:Dmitry, I like your idea of NATO clamp, it would be great if it could be done that way.
Dmitry Shijan wrote:Integrated NATO clamp is sort of questionable idea. It will add some limits and will add more cost to CNC manufacture due complex shape and larger aluminum brick.
But anyway, just box is not enough. It should be a part of universal system. Somehow integrated to cage, to rod clamps, 1/4-20 screw mounting point(s) or pass through hole, maybe some partial anti-twist Arri rosette or Arri pins, or rubber pad.
Thank you for your insights! Very helpful!
Based on your requirements, I made the universal mounting part as follows.
The simple holder which can be attached anywhere with 1/4-20 screw. For the remaining parts, use the common rig parts on the market.
The holder can be attached at the back or the side. It can be reversed, so it can be attached to both sides.


holder.jpg
holder.jpg (57.03 KiB) Viewed 5539 times

holders.jpg
holders.jpg (61.68 KiB) Viewed 5539 times


here's the animation how it works.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eiIX2q ... Gi1_b/view

sijiadin wrote:Shoichiro, forgot to mention, I'd suggest using a CNC Aluminum case and I personally wouldn't mind paying for the extra cost. Like you said, 3D printed cases usually look cheap.
Dmitry Shijan wrote:Yep, raw 3D printed enclosure is great for test samples but for final product it looks like crap. It could be sanded and painted with spray paint (similar to my v1 Expansion Box), but this process require huge amount of time and hand work. Quality 3D printed stuff is very slow and high cost.
This tiny sized CNC enclosure will not cost a lot compare to your expected total package price. I can recommend Lanparte CNC service. They usually can do 50 copies batch in 2-3 weeks and ship worldwide.
CNC require curves based .STEP format drawing in Fusion 360 or SolidWorks. CNC machine will not work from polygon based .STL model.
Thanks again, your opinions are very helpful.
I'll proceed as a CNC Aluminum case.
Dmitry, I googled 'Lanparte CNC service' but nothing to hit. Would you give me a link?
I was considering to use 3dhubs or a supplier in alibaba.com.
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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSun Jul 26, 2020 7:45 am

About powering such controller, we used LANC power, it does not provide much but was enough when the MCU was run at 8MHz. The advantage is that that is available on both micro studio and cinema.
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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostTue Dec 08, 2020 4:06 pm

Is this project still happening? Would be quite interested to buy one. Alternately, if anyone has a CGPro, LeViteZer (with power), or One Little Remote controller they're up for selling, PM. :-)
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Shoichiro Yanagida

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostFri Dec 25, 2020 1:45 am

Eleanor Saitta wrote:Is this project still happening? Would be quite interested to buy one. Alternately, if anyone has a CGPro, LeViteZer (with power), or One Little Remote controller they're up for selling, PM. :-)

Hi, Eleanor! Thank you for your interest!

I'm still working (willing to make it real) on this project but I am facing a budget problem.

Based on my research, every commercial electrical product must have a certification such as CE in the EU, FCC in the US. This is okay for me, but its costs are around $10k for each certification!!! :o

This is a super tiny project, and I don't have such a large budget...
I'm sorry but I cannot proceed because of this problem.

If someone has a legal workaround or I miss something, please let me know. ;)
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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostFri Dec 25, 2020 5:55 am

Regarding CE testing.
If you are building a product containing already CE-certified sub parts such as boards, power supplies etc you can ride on those certifications if you merely have re-packaged them into a new product.
If I remember correctly, a Competent Body should be able to assess and certify your product based upon others sub parts.
And that without the pretty highly expensive complete certification process.
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Shoichiro Yanagida

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSat Dec 26, 2020 1:28 am

Username wrote:Regarding CE testing.
If you are building a product containing already CE-certified sub parts such as boards, power supplies etc you can ride on those certifications if you merely have re-packaged them into a new product.
If I remember correctly, a Competent Body should be able to assess and certify your product based upon others sub parts.
And that without the pretty highly expensive complete certification process.

Hello, Petter. Thank you for your advice.

All the parts I use are RoHS compliant.
Mainboard has CE/FCC certification.
OLED has CE certification.

Now some hope is in sight. I'll research the self-certification/declaration is allowed or not.
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Dmytro Shijan

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSat Dec 26, 2020 2:23 am

I guess for your hobby project all that certification stuff is total waste of time. BMMCC is sort of special camera, and i doubt that it is possible to sell more than 50-100 controllers during 1-2 years. Certification may required for a real company that want to manufacture something like 100000 electronic devices and sale them all in retail stores in a week.
Even most no-name but real electronics in medium batches probably not always do a certification. If it is some regular PCB with buttons and screen device, EU transit customs sometimes may put yellow warning sticker on package with notice that some electronics inside, that they check it and it is not dangerous, but they don't know if it is certified or not.
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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSat Dec 26, 2020 9:33 pm

All electronics in the US are subject to FCC Title 47 Part 15 regulation. That said, there are metric tons of tech floating in from Shenzen subjected to little or no federal oversight. If Amazon can duck the Taxman for a straight decade, what can the FCC hope to accomplish?

I have had UL/CE compliance issues in parts of Canada. A Canadian fire marshal went through the village and made sure everything had some kind of rating/approval. A Motion Labs distro with no tags almost stopped the show.

This little controller device, you’d have to pay somebody to care.

Good Luck
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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostMon Jan 18, 2021 8:27 pm

Shoichiro Yanagida wrote:
Username wrote:Regarding CE testing.
If you are building a product containing already CE-certified sub parts such as boards, power supplies etc you can ride on those certifications if you merely have re-packaged them into a new product.
If I remember correctly, a Competent Body should be able to assess and certify your product based upon others sub parts.
And that without the pretty highly expensive complete certification process.

Hello, Petter. Thank you for your advice.

All the parts I use are RoHS compliant.
Mainboard has CE/FCC certification.
OLED has CE certification.

Now some hope is in sight. I'll research the self-certification/declaration is allowed or not.



.. you could also sell it as a "kit" for self assembling - if all parts has CE - you are not selling a "new" product.
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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostSun Nov 07, 2021 10:37 am

Are there any plans to continue this project? I'm trying to find a compact remote solution for the BMMCC and this is the most viable one that I've come across.
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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostWed Jul 06, 2022 6:13 am

yes, what news?
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spitandspite

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Re: These days BMMCC controller

PostThu Aug 11, 2022 4:21 am

love to hear how this going as well

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