The future aspect ratio

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Kim Janson

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The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 12, 2022 6:19 am

I posted this video while ago just as answer to a question here at the forum and thought nothing more about it



Until next day I noticed it had got over 1000 views, such a simple video and anyway unheard of for anything I have posted to YouTube before. That is how I learned about YouTube Shorts. I guess it was the phone on wrong orientation when I shoot it that put it there. :)

Few days ago I looked into Instagram, had made account years ago, but never used it. Non of my content really fits there, unless using the last option of aspect ration that no one uses. I guess it is the same with any social media that is mostly consumed via phones.

Is that Cinematography, NO, but then again that is just my opinion and if people do this for living and get millions of views...

Screenshot 2022-08-12 at 9.01.59.jpg
Screenshot 2022-08-12 at 9.01.59.jpg (494.07 KiB) Viewed 2064 times


I guess many have already rotated their cameras 90 degrees.

Ps. here is my cat video from yesterday, but it was shot on wrong orientation for it to get any views :roll: well maybe there is other reasons too :D



And anyway the URSA Broadcast G2 is a bit difficult camera to rotate 90 degrees.

(it was related to this viewtopic.php?f=4&t=165607)
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 12, 2022 6:47 am

My response to Vertical Video:



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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 12, 2022 7:28 am

Love it Tim! I’m with you on this. Hopefully we’re not going to be dated. :lol:
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 12, 2022 8:10 am

Wonderful! Thank you.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 12, 2022 8:45 am

Kim Janson wrote:And anyway the URSA Broadcast G2 is a bit difficult camera to rotate 90 degrees.


Probably easier than some of the normal broadcast cameras - https://www.dfl.de/en/news/dfl-tests-wo ... 16-format/
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Jeffrey D Mathias

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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 12, 2022 11:51 am

well vertical aspect certainly has place in the world of art... I even found most of my platinum/palladium photographic prints were vertical aspect. Just because displays have not gone vertical (except for phones) does not rule it out as to usefulness in presentation. Maybe theaters kept to horizontal in order to accommodate a larger (spread horizontally to keep closer) audience. Also as to displays there are many now used vertically for advertising in public places... maybe because they seem to attract attention better... or maybe because they just fit better... or maybe because the vertical aspect attracts attention to the product better... or maybe because that image as a whole just feels right.

In any event I certainly find nothing wrong with using an aspect which the artist best feels best delivers their message. And yes, vertical aspect has had it's share of novelty "misuses", but so does any other aspect.

I even did a shoot where the director desired to have vertical with the URSA 12K at a rolled 90. And he really appreciated when I suggested to rotate the DIT monitor 90 degrees and to do the same when editing.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostSat Aug 13, 2022 1:09 pm

timbutt2 wrote:My response to Vertical Video:



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:D
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 9:37 am

Brilliant!
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 2:05 pm

Just because something isn't common now, you shouldn't rule out it in the future.
But aside from that, the arguments in the video have no real substance about vertical video in todays landscape.
I'm going to state the obvious: movies (currently) should not be vertical, and this is already well stated in the video. But the issue is OP wasn't talking about film, and the idea that vertical cant be cinematic is just completely wrong. (
)

You also need to think about the landscape of how people are consuming video entertainment. Tiktok is completely vertical, and while you don't see any movies on the platform, it is still more popular than almost every other video medium currently.

Last thing i will say is that the entertainment industry is changing rapidly. To dismiss vertical video as something that will never happen is just not very open minded. People said the same thing about digital cameras, and then they became more popular and better than film cameras, so you shouldn't say that just because our current landscape isn't accepting of vertical cinema, doesn't mean that one day it will.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 2:27 pm

The use of non-standard aspects ratios is not new, and there are feature films with multiple aspect ratios, both vertical and horizontal. In one case a character actually opens up a highly restricted vertical frame, like a closet door, for dramatic effect.

But how much mileage there is in aspect ratios far more restricted than normal eye sight remains to be seen. Here's guessing, not much, if there's not compelling reason for it.

Meanwhile, when you see people taking pictures of landscapes or all 17 of their friends with their phones in vertical positions, you kinda want to make it a crime.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 2:58 pm

It’s use in TikTok certainly can be considered appropriate since the viewing devices are also always used vertically except when we want to watch a 16:9 video.

The closet door analogy fits my reaction to the cinematic use of the vertical aspect ratio. So it could well be used effectively if it suits the purpose of the film. For example, Das Boot might be very effective edited as a 9:16 vertical shot as I understand the passageway was very narrow. Or a psychological thriller about a child living under the stairs or in a closet (also real unfortunately). Vive la difference.

But those thematically appropriate uses would not make it a standard for most widescreen cinema that audiences respond to with enthusiasm. Probably would make for a challenging film school exercise to explore various aspect ratios that can be used successfully.
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Richard Knight

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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 3:43 pm

Any wide group shot would force the sound boom out. (Ex boom op)
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Uli Plank

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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 6:03 pm

But since our eyes are arranged horizontally, what about a cinema where you are lying on your side?
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 8:36 pm

Not to worry, the vertical format will be gone when the smart phones are, that might take tough longer that I would like.

Meantime I will not ignore the vertical or square formats, they have their uses as so many consume them.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 6:27 am

So I gave my little finger to #shorts. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-bCA1 ... jdQkQegH2g , to test at least.

Screenshot 2022-08-16 at 9.17.35.jpg
Screenshot 2022-08-16 at 9.17.35.jpg (504.19 KiB) Viewed 1357 times


The shorts get very nicely views, likes and subscriptions, not sure that it reaching relevant persons though, we will see. This seems to flat out after few hours though so we will see also how that develops.

flatout.jpg
flatout.jpg (109.11 KiB) Viewed 1355 times


The YouTube channel is old, but has never been used really, the LeViteZer videos have been, and will continue to be at https://vimeo.com/levitezer

BTW, it is not at all about video quality but what is on it. This one I made to look even lower quality than it was on purpose to test and it got most of views.



The question though is, is a low quality vertical video right tool to find project leads on video broadcast industry. That is the question.

Be warned though, the shorts are pretty addictive.

Ps. would be interesting to know if you see some of these videos searching YouTube with "#videoproduction #shorts" or #broadcastjournalism
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostTue Aug 16, 2022 8:27 am

BTW this #shorts world is very strange. I did watch few videos about it and it is fairly new on YouTube, them competing with TicTok etc. I have never been on TicTok but it seems to be short vertical video only.

2021 YouTube was very short on #shorts :D I think they still are. Anyway YouTube was ok of TicTok videos Reposted on YouTube #shors. The people on TickTok where mostly happy someone posted their videos, so what people started doing was:

1. start a new YouTube #shorts channel
2. repost without asking permission popular TicTok videos on the Youtube channel, crediting the original maker of the video and providing their contact information. If the original creator contacts and does not like it being posted, they just remove that video from the channel.
3. So they post 10 most popular TicTok videos per day and people start subscribing that Youtube channel, some of them got 10M subscribers in a year. The shorts get many views but the YouTube channel is not making much money with that.
4. What they are making money with is with the 10M subscribers, showing adds on their channel, apparently 10 to 20 kEuro worth per month.

Not bad for reposting 10 TicTok videos per day, not making any of their own content.

It is just, I hope I would understand the modern world...

Ps. if you where interested on that, I just saved you 12 minutes of watching this very nervous and intense, very fatigant video, that takes 15 minutes to provide the above information.



All silent moments cut a way, and so many cuts and jumps in such video, and there is videos teaching that this is how you should make a YouTube video 2022...
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostThu Aug 18, 2022 7:27 am

It takes less than a minute to make and post a video like this

https://youtube.com/shorts/zQ29wuaDUGE?feature=share

The choking part is that one hour later over 4000 people have watched it and cumulatively spend over 10 hours doing so.

"YouTube Shorts Has More Than 1.5 Billion Monthly Video Viewers, Google Claims"

This is significant as it means less time for normal videos and serious productions.

Some of the shorts are though serious productions, like this 1 billion view short

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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 19, 2022 11:18 am

It's what you get when you have wide spread cell phone addiction coupled with an ADD pandemic both fueled by self induced boredom.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostMon Aug 22, 2022 6:30 am

Yeah, I know, the phone I am not addicted, but have spent all too much time now with the vertical mode. Also noted the YouTube algorithms are not predictable at all. Sometime they favor you sometimes ignore...

Anyway, Micro Cinema camera in vertical mode https://youtube.com/shorts/08pHg8-nWic?feature=share

wemrick1 wrote:It's what you get when you have wide spread cell phone addiction coupled with an ADD pandemic both fueled by self induced boredom.
Last edited by Kim Janson on Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostWed Aug 24, 2022 12:25 am

Something I’ve noticed as I’ve been pushed into some vertical content is that it’s a very individual medium. You can’t put two people in a shot without creating absurd head and foot room, and almost inappropriate distance. I continue to argue on my team that it’s an anti-community format (the antithesis of our org). Yes, I’m exaggerating a bit, but I think it bears some reflection.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostWed Aug 24, 2022 8:08 am

Is this really induced by gaming? I see most kids around here gaming in horizontal orientation.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostWed Aug 24, 2022 9:39 am

dnbarg wrote:I continue to argue on my team that it’s an anti-community format ...

I agree. The portrait format is an ego format.

It makes sense that the term includes the word "portrait" in singular.

Even though all those vertical singles together side by side on a web page may appear like a community of individual cells. But every cell remains isolated by a frame; they never really touch each other.

The most isolated cell is a vertical video on YouTube. Two thick walls left and right. Like a jail in The Tower of London. No community. Just one hole.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostWed Aug 24, 2022 10:01 am

Uli Plank wrote:Is this really induced by gaming? I see most kids around here gaming in horizontal orientation.


Nothing to do with gaming, everything to do with people being bored and having an internet connected device in their pocket, having time to waste and being desperate for the dopamine hits from sharing something that's popular (even if that's popular for 15s and never re-watched). These viewers don't have time to turn their phone around to watch proper content, they just want something that will make them laugh or smile for a few seconds at a time.

Google haven't added Shorts to YouTube because they think it's the future of high quality content, they've added it to try and keep people on their platform and away from the likes of TikTok by leveraging their existing content creators.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostWed Aug 24, 2022 10:21 am

Exactly.

And: The shorter the Shorts, the more occasions for YouTube to show adverts between videos.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostWed Aug 24, 2022 12:44 pm

The good thing is that at least for time being there is no adverts on YouTube Shorts. The bad thing is, they are really mostly waste of time, but that is ok sometimes.

Hardy- wrote:Exactly.

And: The shorter the Shorts, the more occasions for YouTube to show adverts between videos.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostWed Aug 24, 2022 8:39 pm

The world would be so much better if progress had ended with the original Motorolla flip phone. This thread breaks my heart. :cry:
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The future aspect ratio

PostWed Aug 24, 2022 9:02 pm

“Don’t give up” as the song goes. There is life that doesn’t include TikTok and Shorts and doesn’t rely on the vagaries of social media. “Be true to yourself” as Polonius advised, paraphrasing. And certainly don’t envy those whose media flame burns brightest (sincerely don’t, because there’s a mounting history of sad endings to many of them trapped in an unsustainable lifestyle).
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Kim Janson

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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostThu Aug 25, 2022 7:18 am

The smart phones are part of critical infrastructure now, in Finland you can not do online shopping without a smart phone and many critical solutions rely on the network. That is worrying. They do also extend the internet tracking to the physical world. Sadly we are stuck with them, still miss my Nokia E50, it got stolen in Paris long time ago.

The Vertical video is here to stay. It will not replace the Horizontal video, but it will consume time otherwise would be consumed with Horizontal videos, and it will change people, it already has. Many have problems watching a 2 hour movie, and if they can do that, at least they look their phone couple of times during it....

So also Horizontal video will change because of the Vertical very short ADHD videos. Strangely tough, new movies are often longer than 2 hours.

What is content worth if no one is consuming it, but then again number of views is just one metric.

Long time ago on the first day on new job, the CEO gave me this book

Screenshot 2022-08-25 at 11.58.07.png
Screenshot 2022-08-25 at 11.58.07.png (104.26 KiB) Viewed 610 times


I read it, I thought I understood it, and thought it was a strange book to give during first working day on a new company. Later I learned otherwise, the CEO left the company soon after for better position. Maybe I should have followed his example, but kind of happy I did not, I found a new cheese, something I always wanted to do, it has not been easy ride though.

How does that reflect to cinematography. I can not say, but I am sure it does.

Ps. '“Don’t give up” as the song goes' that is one of the very few duet I can tolerate, it is a great one.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostThu Aug 25, 2022 1:37 pm

And here’s the antidote coming September 21, 2022. Hope the link works for you. Andor totally unlike recent Star Wars sagas:

https://apple.news/ASY4xCEJkRKyHoT3a-ujNKw
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostThu Aug 25, 2022 5:46 pm

Funny, just few days a go I was thinking it would be good to have application that collects all the headlines around the world, and provides filtering options and statistics, and links to the actual articles.

Not sure how exactly this is that, and how good it is depends much how true they stay to the source and what sources of news they include to the service, or will they manipulate the promoted headlines and according to who's interests.




rick.lang wrote:And here’s the antidote coming September 21, 2022. Hope the link works for you. Andor totally unlike recent Star Wars sagas:

https://apple.news/ASY4xCEJkRKyHoT3a-ujNKw
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The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 12:02 am

It’s sensitive to the kinds of topics and articles you tend to follow. You can force it to ignore some categories but not all categories which seems strange. Still shows me a lot I am not interested in seeing. Not too bad.

EVRI was by far my favourite app for reading only articles from sources I wanted, but sadly Paul Allen (Microsoft co-founder) abandoned it. It was perhaps ahead of its time.

Apologies for being off-topic.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 9:39 am

The YouTube Shorts could be interesting News service, if Google would want to make that. That tough would have the unwanted side effects that people would use their phones to make a video, even more on situations They should not. So maybe not a good idea.

News goes much under the "Who Moved My Cheese?" as does Google search results, Youtube and social media recommendations. If we let someone to decide what is shown to us, if we think we are deciding that, or admit that is not possible and that some randomness is required to widen our perspective.

The problem with search engines to day is that even when thinking that the search was well narrowed down, we get by the service recommended result, and by what criteria.

At 90's there was so many search engines, and they where not that great, but they allowed and required very detailed search criteria, and there was applications that sent the search to all of those engines, so there was many perspective on the results. Much better than today.

And how is this related to the video. Just think about that when next time using YouTube or similar service. You likely see mostly videos that have plenty of views, those videos likely have been made in mind to optimise the monetization, to rank high on the YouTube algorithms.

The Vertical video is just part of this, it is the more mindless part of it, and YouTube does not seem to quite know yet what to do with it.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 9:42 am

shorts are the worst thing youtube has introduced!
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 10:05 am

Kim Janson wrote:YouTube does not seem to quite know yet what to do with it.


Oh, they really do - keep people away from TikTok. TikTok is a threat to Google, Google are far more concerned about threats than opportunities. Shorts are not an opportunity to offer something new to attract a wider audience, it's an attempt to prevent their existing casual viewer base from going elsewhere.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 10:46 am

Yes, YouTube introduced the Shorts not to loose it for TikToc, but I do think we will see the shorts much evolving during the next couple of years.

It is a side track, but I will mention this, DJI just released the AVATA. I was into FPV 2008, but how DJI has now integrated everything and have good enough camera for many uses at affordable price, will be a game changer on productions where GoPro was the thing, and it will have its effects also to cinematography. Nothing new, just very well implemented. So prepare for change also on that. (see starting at 26:00)

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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 12:03 pm

Kim Janson wrote:The YouTube Shorts could be interesting News service,...


I sure hope not.
There is a thing called journalism.
And, there are even schools to properly teach or train it.
Reporting the news is not a simple thing.
There are many self-proclaimed news services that don't know $#!+.
Integrity, reliability and dedication are required of journalism.
I guess "could" could be a key word in that statement.
Anyone with a phone shooting vertical video could be a Pulitzer recipient.
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Re: The future aspect ratio

PostFri Aug 26, 2022 1:12 pm

Yes, You are right, that was not a good idea, for time being anyway.

The Journalism though, there used to be journalists, some even good ones. Now that also is just all after the clicks, Very poor journalism here in Finland at least now days.

Jeffrey D Mathias wrote:
Kim Janson wrote:The YouTube Shorts could be interesting News service,...


I sure hope not.
There is a thing called journalism.
And, there are even schools to properly teach or train it.
Reporting the news is not a simple thing.
There are many self-proclaimed news services that don't know $#!+.
Integrity, reliability and dedication are required of journalism.
I guess "could" could be a key word in that statement.
Anyone with a phone shooting vertical video could be a Pulitzer recipient.
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