Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

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Sean Weaver

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Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 11:30 pm

To keep this short, I purchased a pair of Pocket Cinema 6ks (one 6k, one 6k Pro) from Spring to Summer of 2021 and proceeded to install the software on it. Computers were purchased in early '21 and shipped with 10.15.7 Catalina on it. One runs Davinci Resolve and is reserved for video. The other is for Pro Tools/audio/music studio work but also runs the ATEM Mini Extreme ISO (which has whatever installer was compatible with Catalina --- I'll have to switch computers to confirm but from the Support page it looks like 8.5.3 was the last that could be installed with OS Catalina. *I do realize ATEM questions belong in the Live Production forum but since my main question is about the Pocket Cinemas I am posting this question here. Mods, if you need me to break this into two separate posts in different forums, please forgive me and let me know. Main question is most certainly the cameras right now though).

I'm in-between projects at the moment so it's now or not at all for quite some more time. I thought it might be worth updating the camera software and of course once I had downloaded the installer I noticed that I need at least 10.11 Big Sur to do so.

For a variety of reasons I don't really need to bore anyone with, I'm persistently hesitant to change the Mac OS on computers. When something is stable and working, I tend to seek to preserve that at all costs.

Having said that, can anyone "sell" me on the value of updating the software on the cameras? Then I peruse through the forums and see people having had issues with software updates and the anxieties hit again. Everything is working right now!!! What am I really missing out on by staying behind with 7.3???? ATEM?? (I do realize most people do this all the time without a second thought)

Thanks,

Sean
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rick.lang

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Re: Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostThu Aug 11, 2022 2:10 pm

Dean, doesn’t DaVinci Resolve 18.0 also need Big Sur? I don’t think you want to miss that release too.
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostThu Aug 11, 2022 7:50 pm

Sean Weaver wrote:To keep this short, I purchased a pair of Pocket Cinema 6ks (one 6k, one 6k Pro) from Spring to Summer of 2021 and proceeded to install the software on it. Computers were purchased in early '21 and shipped with 10.15.7 Catalina on it. One runs Davinci Resolve and is reserved for video. The other is for Pro Tools/audio/music studio work but also runs the ATEM Mini Extreme ISO (which has whatever installer was compatible with Catalina --- I'll have to switch computers to confirm but from the Support page it looks like 8.5.3 was the last that could be installed with OS Catalina. *I do realize ATEM questions belong in the Live Production forum but since my main question is about the Pocket Cinemas I am posting this question here. Mods, if you need me to break this into two separate posts in different forums, please forgive me and let me know. Main question is most certainly the cameras right now though).

I'm in-between projects at the moment so it's now or not at all for quite some more time. I thought it might be worth updating the camera software and of course once I had downloaded the installer I noticed that I need at least 10.11 Big Sur to do so.

For a variety of reasons I don't really need to bore anyone with, I'm persistently hesitant to change the Mac OS on computers. When something is stable and working, I tend to seek to preserve that at all costs.

Having said that, can anyone "sell" me on the value of updating the software on the cameras? Then I peruse through the forums and see people having had issues with software updates and the anxieties hit again. Everything is working right now!!! What am I really missing out on by staying behind with 7.3???? ATEM?? (I do realize most people do this all the time without a second thought)

Thanks,

Sean
You can update to 7.9 from Catalina, i had it.
Only 7.9.1 need Big Sur


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carlomacchiavello

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Re: Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostThu Aug 11, 2022 7:50 pm

rick.lang wrote:Dean, doesn’t DaVinci Resolve 18.0 also need Big Sur? I don’t think you want to miss that release too.
18.0.1 work fine on my Catalina ;-)


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Re: Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostThu Aug 11, 2022 8:25 pm

For those who wish to remain with Catalina, I’m glad Resolve 18 is working for your needs. The official release notes do however mention that Big Sur is required. I don’t want to upgrade to Monterey nor see any compelling reason to go to Ventura.

I liked visiting all four places, especially staying at Catalina, when I lived in Las Angeles, but I’m not a fan of increasingly mimicking iOS/iPad in macOS at the cost of de-emphasizing added value for the desktop systems particularly as might relate to the Mac Pro.
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Re: Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostThu Aug 11, 2022 9:26 pm

Good to know about Resolve 18. Still on 17.4.6 --- I bought all of this stuff to get into video production for a business launch and proceeded to get spooked about updates screwing it all up, so I'm not dealing with old computers but I am dealing with psychology, combined with being in-between projects at the moment but behind schedule to get back to work. Which leaves a narrow window of time to either do this at all....or not.

In researching this until 4 am last night, about every possible scenario has filled my mind. I've read about 1. clean installs, 2. creating a second volume in the disk container to audition a new OS, and now, 3. running Mac OS X off of an external (fast) drive.

At this point I suppose I'm concerned about the future, with Apple making it harder and harder to boot from external devices, a long list of Pro Tools users who were having graphics problems after "updating" to Big Sur (and I use one computer for PT, the other for video), Carbon Copy Cloner no longer ensuring a bootable backup from Big Sur on, and so forth. All of which has me wondering (and possibly leaning towards)....

Does anyone here have anything at all to say about the possibility of hemorrhaging more money, buying a fresh NVMe storage device (I pieced what I'd need together on OWC, and currently have a ThunderBay Flex 8 with one NVMe disk already in it but that's all for video production, so I think I'd need to setup a second device if I go all out and if it would work), and literally setting up the newer OS X on an external device comparable in speed to the internal SSD on the MBP?

If I understand correctly, Catalina is still not a concern for external boots, but I'm confused on Big Sur forward. If I could keep my current computer (or computer(s) if I were inclined to do this for two), as a time-capsule, at all times capable of starting up with Catalina, but running a later/"improved" OS X at all times from a second device, just how viable (or perhaps more accurately, paranoid) is that....? Is the idea totally and completely ridiculous or does anyone have anything at all to say about the possibility of perhaps doing that?

If it sounds like I'm phobic of updates, perhaps I am. This is obviously a great conflict with having anything at all to do with video production, technology, and computers. But I couldn't stay in the utopia of electron tubes and tape machines endlessly. The world moved on while I said "no wait, the computer modeler still isn't a '64 AC-30!"
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Re: Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostFri Aug 12, 2022 2:00 pm

Why not ask a friend with a Windows PC to do the updates of the cameras there?
Saying "Thx for help!" is not a crime.
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Re: Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 12:16 am

I'm going for it. The question now is Big Sur or Monterey, but of course, this is not a Mac forum. Thanks for the advice and input, everyone. Took a half a week of research, planning, and study but I have a solid plan in place now to eliminate the stress and question marks. I have a fully bootable backup that has been tested and confirmed. I'm still thinking I'll try out a newer OS on a bootable SSD before committing to it on the Mac drive. I do appreciate all of the input. I was probably not going to do this if Resolve 18 had not been mentioned earlier in this thread, but now I'll get everything up to date
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Re: Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 1:01 am

I’d suggest Big Sur but hold off on Monterey at this time.
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Re: Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 1:25 am

rick.lang wrote:I’d suggest Big Sur but hold off on Monterey at this time.


Thanks Rick. That's really helpful to hear. I'm usually one OS behind on the Pro Tools machine (although maybe not now if I even update that one at all; some people were having UI/Graphics issues in Pro Tools with Big Sur so I may completely remain on Catalina there; there are reports it was all fixed in Monterey but a stable recording "tape machine" computer is worth its weight in gold) but had not thought about lagging behind at all on the video computer, where I sort of just assuming Monterey would be the way to go. I did see your earlier note that you have no desire to move to Monterey at this time. Left to my own devices I would have assumed "eh, it's been out almost a year, probably no big deal." Glad I saw this in time (nothing's happening tonight anyhow).
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Re: Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 5:32 am

Figured a week-later update might be in order but don't particularly have a question and won't litter the boards with an endless barrage of words to give the full story. Finally went to Big Sur yesterday afternoon but did not clean install. Ran into an issue with Adobe Creative Cloud that took 27 hours and two interventions with support (the second one lasting two hours) to solve. Sorting out issues with some RAID software at the moment. Still researching, asking, posting, but have not yet worked up the nerve to wipe the disk clean and do a truly fresh install, but if I had started that way, the Adobe disaster would have been avoided. In fairness, it turns out things were screwed up before the switch, since I was able to confirm that from a bootable backup. In any event, fixed now.

For what it's worth, I'm on Big Sur now and will make the update for current camera software and get on Resolve 18 once everything else is sorted out. No catastrophic crises or data loss. Just about 9 days lost to something as benign as updating an operating system, but at least I've learned tons. Hope the camera updates and Resolve 18 are worth it in the end!!! Worst case scenario: I won't revert back into the stone-age.

I'm kind of not wild about the user interface on Big Sur...it feels like a phone, but no point in going back now. Maybe I'll go to Monterey in 4 or 5 months
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Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 5:24 pm

Sean Weaver wrote:…I'm kind of not wild about the user interface on Big Sur...it feels like a phone, but no point in going back now. Maybe I'll go to Monterey in 4 or 5 months


That’s what I felt and Monterey is even more like iOS and iPadOS. Probably will be indistinguishable on Venture. Great for Apple but not great for users. Interoperability is a commendable feature but not at the cost of feeling you’re losing something on the desktop. I’m not a fan of this trend as I want more functionality and power on my desktop.

Apple has you by the short and curlies though as in time there’s bound to be essential security fixes and desirable new features only available on a later macOS. Like Resolve 20 will require a minimum of Ventura or ‘Sunnyvale.’
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Re: Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 9:06 pm

rick.lang wrote:
Sean Weaver wrote:…I'm kind of not wild about the user interface on Big Sur...it feels like a phone, but no point in going back now. Maybe I'll go to Monterey in 4 or 5 months


That’s what I felt and Monterey is even more like iOS and iPadOS. Probably will be indistinguishable on Venture. Great for Apple but not great for users. Interoperability is a commendable feature but not at the cost of feeling you’re losing something on the desktop. I’m not a fan of this trend as I want more functionality and power on my desktop.

Apple has you by the short and curlies though as in time there’s bound to be essential security fixes and desirable new features only available on a later macOS. Like Resolve 20 will require a minimum of Ventura or ‘Sunnyvale.’


It's insane. Everything is working (computers, that is...the Adobe nightmare wasn't a hardware issue) and I made the switch 7 years ago when I transitioned from PC laptops and growing up on Windows machines to getting my first Apple computer expressly for transitioning out of the stone-age into a DAW-based recording setup. Basically to get onto Pro Tools. Once I was on a Mac, it was "oh yes, this is in fact a superior computer for creatives."

But as time goes by, with no Apple horror stories to blame it on, I'm just kind of starting to think about what comes next and find myself starting to think about how life would look if I left the Apple ecosystem and moved onto dedicated high-end PCs.

I don't have the answers but I'm not sure I like the direction things are moving. Someone else might say I'm just getting old, but I'm not sure it's that at all. Things do feel different now
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Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostSat Aug 20, 2022 10:15 pm

I believe part of the issue is due to Tim Cook. He’s probably a great manager for the most part. But I don’t think he’s a visionary outside of envisioning raising obscene margins from their lines of business and becoming a social activist with the weight Apple has due to its success.

That activism isn’t a bad thing, but the user base is probably more concerned about using the power of technology to create and use much better devices and applications either to do more work better or provide more enjoyable activity.

A great manager needs to be surrounded by great managers that share their visions and passions and have the support of their great manager. When you run a public company you have a priority to protect your shareholders. Tim certainly takes that role seriously and does that typically exercising a cautious approach forward.

AppleTV+ is an example of supporting creatives and not micro-managing them. AppleCar could end up a great success in a few years, but forever seems to be a rudderless ship especially given the coming and going of leaders. But what does Apple have to show for users?

Does Tim think using software and wide angle lenses to follow your motion as you podcast a cooking show is critical to your success? Innovative, fine, but it’s not like we’re going to buy their device because it’s now indispensable. I used to look forward to their annual events especially for hardware development, but for years now, it feels like 90% software refinements and 10% only interesting with everything so closely held to their chest and none of their dreams shared or hinted at to inspire the cult followers!

But you can’t lose sight of your creative users and grow something special. I could go on about details for at least a year of constant writing, but, hey, I love you so I’ll spare you the pain.
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Re: Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostMon Aug 22, 2022 8:42 pm

Finally updated the 6k Pro to the current software version 7.9! Now moving onto the 6k update.

It only took 12 days and a crash course in learning about T2 chips, clean macOS installs, driver updates for RAID software, a Photoshop/Bridge/Adobe 27-hour meltdown, and about 7-8 sleepless nights until about 4 in the morning. Now with the inevitability of Apple phasing out Intel Macs, seeing the list of models dropped from eligibility for Ventura, and grave concerns building over if whatever comes after Ventura makes the list for 2019 machines, and looking at all the money I spent right at the start of the transition away from Intel (with all of the audio people telling me to not go M1 yet), I'm hoping to make it to 2025 before losing security updates at the worst and effectively being forced into hemorrhaging more money, but if it all works out and the video stuff works out at all (over 3 years in development and still trying to get ready to launch a guitar dynasty), maybe it'll be no big deal for the cost of new computers before the Intel models are paperweights. Maybe I struggle with technology so much precisely because of being a guitar player, and precisely because tube amps still sound better and Leo Fender still made the perfect electric (hi-tech, electric) guitar as early as 1950 (if gauging by the Broadcaster come No Caster come Telecaster) or at least 1954 for the Strat, and not only does new technology not sound any better (i.e. Kemper amplifier profiling...can fool me in a blind test but it's not any better *sounding* and doesn't feel the same behind the wheel of the car) but in many cases is inferior. Maybe my whole quandary can be chalked up to trying to view the rest of the world the the idyllic lens (see what I did there on a camera sub-forum!) of a life lived in the ethereal zone, fixated on the sounds that moved me so. Technology is not music and so I shouldn't ask to look at it close to the same way or apply close to the same standards. Maybe the problem is me (in fact, for sure, it is). But artists are fueled by emotion and what a ride those past 12 days were all the same. Turns out my mid-2015 rMBP is still going (just not used for video or audio!). If I can squeeze a few more years of Monterey support out of it before it goes obsolete, then it would have lasted me 9 or 10 years. Kind of getting concerned that will not be the case with the more expensive pair of Intels I bought just last year but it will be what it will be.

Sincere and big thanks to each and everyone who chimed in with ideas, advice, or just discussion along the way. Onward
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Re: Camera Software from 7.3 or not - OS Quandary

PostMon Aug 22, 2022 11:18 pm

That lovin’ feeling… what a story, and Steve Jobs used to say, “It just works!”
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