Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

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wemrick1

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Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostTue Aug 09, 2022 1:30 pm

I'm currently shooting off tripod with the Ursa Mini 4k (first release, 2015 edition). What I absolutely love is how I can shoot shoulder mounted. I am much more stable than shooting hand held with any camera. Where I am getting frustrated is in the amount of noise I am getting. I shoot with it primarily outside and what I do is definitely documentary. On a tripod my BMPCC 6k pro is perfect with it's nd filters, noise presence, dual ISO, etc. Basically all of the features included in the Ursa Broadcast G2. My assumption is that the Ursa Mini Broadcast G2 would produce the same quality of footage as the BMPCC 6K pro with the shoulder mount facility I love so much from the Ursa Mini 4K.

Before the thread becomes derailed with comparisons to the Ursa Mini 6.5K pro G2 and the Ursa Mini 12K, I simply can not or maybe more accurate will not afford those cameras.

What I am hoping to achieve with this post is to either confirm or debunk my assumption. It would be heartbreaking to spend 4G on the camera only to see no improvement in the grain relationships.
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Howard Roll

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostTue Aug 09, 2022 5:18 pm

The UBG2 uses the same sensor as the P6K, it benefits from better IO and cooling but lacks DCI (17:9) resolution. Other than that they’re basically the same.

Good Luck
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rick.lang

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Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostTue Aug 09, 2022 5:32 pm

As Howard mentions, the lack of various 17:9 recording formats may be missed if you want to use the camera as a cinema camera as it’s emphasis is related to UHD and HD deliverables used in broadcast. It does add the ability to output h.265 and h.264 which Resolve can work with as an input codec.

My guess is the noise levels of the UMBG2 would provide a slightly better image out of the camera than the BMPCC6K in terms of noise. A side by side comparison of actual footage would be interesting.
Last edited by rick.lang on Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rick Lang
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wemrick1

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostTue Aug 09, 2022 7:57 pm

Thank you gentlemen! I wish I knew how to alert you to this thank you without pasting in all of the comments. It is possible that someday I may miss having a 17x9 ratio but doubtful. To date and per my ability to forecast, I'll always publish 16x9. I love capturing life as it happens i.e. documentary work. I just don't have the mindset for cinematic story telling. I love the stories people can craft. I'm just not among those who have that talent. I now know the camera to shoot for. When is the only question.
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rick.lang

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostTue Aug 09, 2022 8:06 pm

Great. Looking forward to your side-by-side comparisons of footage from the BMPCC6K Pro and the UMBG2!
Rick Lang
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wemrick1

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostTue Aug 09, 2022 8:29 pm

rick.lang wrote:Great. Looking forward to your side-by-side comparisons of footage from the BMPCC6K Pro and the UMBG2!


I will do that. There may be a minute wait.... One of my old monitors decided to have a nasty yellow tint start moving across the face of it. Turned my daughter's face green in DR. Had to run out and grab two new monitors. Definitely a priority.
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rick.lang

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostWed Aug 10, 2022 12:33 am

Thanks and sorry to hear about the bump in the road.
Rick Lang
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wemrick1

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostSat Aug 13, 2022 9:34 pm

The G2 came today and I am soo excited! I never thought I would own a camera like this. Assembly was a breeze. Changing out the lens mount to EF went very well also. With a flashlight I can see a couple of very tiny partials which seem to be in-between the sensor and nd filters. I'll start testing tomorrow to see if the particles come out in the image. Purchased a torque screwdriver and got the torque exact to specs. Only problem I found so far was when I pressed the iris set button the aperture would go to max e.g. 22. That was fixed by upgrading the firmware to 7.9.1. The camera came with 7.5 installed. I've only shot two short clips so far but they were in fairly low light with wonderful results. I've got a Sigma 17-55 on it right now and have a contiguous gear band coming which I plan to put on the zoom ring using the Tilta nano to control it. In theory for doc work I should rarely have to take my hands off the two handgrips when shoulder mounted. It seems to be a very sweet rig. Thanks again to those who helped me choose this camera.

Edit:

After more testing it does have it's shortcomings. Both the press to focus and press for exposure sound like a coffee grinder using onboard mics. Both functions are pretty hit and miss in lower light e.g. f3.5 @ 1000 ISO. Still loving the camera. Just things one needs to know.
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rick.lang

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 1:19 am

Congratulations! You made a reference to ISO 1000, but doesn’t the UMBG2 just show Gain? With the Pocket cameras, one shouldn’t shoot ISO 1000 as that’s pushing the ISO 400 range (Gain 0) to the point where it will show more noise than at ISO 1250 which is in the ISO 3200 range (Gain +18).

ISO 1600 would be Gain +12.
ISO 800 would be Gain +6.

I don’t know what Gain values are used in the camera that equate to ISO 1250, but it should be just above Gain +9.
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wemrick1

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 2:20 am

rick.lang wrote:Congratulations! You made a reference to ISO 1000, but doesn’t the UMBG2 just show Gain? With the Pocket cameras, one shouldn’t shoot ISO 1000 as that’s pushing the ISO 400 range (Gain 0) to the point where it will show more noise than at ISO 1250 which is in the ISO 3200 range (Gain +18).

ISO 1600 would be Gain +12.
ISO 800 would be Gain +6.

I don’t know what Gain values are used in the camera that equate to ISO 1250, but it should be just above Gain +9.


You're right Rick. This time out I was just playing with the push focus and push aperture and not paying attention so much to gain setting as to where the histogram was sitting. Just trying to get a feel for how those two functions worked and if the camera would do a half decent job of providing a decent exposure. When I got it back in DR the gain was again referred to in terms of ISO. I was looking then mostly at the waveforms produced. For the camera sitting at the top of the lower native gain, the pictures are very nice and noise free. As many before me I'm not real impressed with the "push to" features of the camera. I'm sure I'll spend most of my time using the Nuke Nano for the focus and my fingers for zoom and Iris via the wheel on the outside of the camera. +9 would be pretty close to the 1250 mark. ISO graduations are 2db on this camera so 10 db would be the first setting in the upper amplifier range. -6 to 8 being in the lower range. The math isn't very clean between full stops with one scale being linear and the other logarithmic. I'll keep playing and testing taking more things into consideration as I go. With both the camera and the lens (first auto, non prime) being new to me there is a lot to wrap my head around and commit to "intuitive" hopefully. I guess it isn't too bad though. -6 lowest setting, 0 first native, 10 bottom of upper range and 16 second native.
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rick.lang

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostSun Aug 14, 2022 5:09 am

Interesting that Resolve displays ISO. So it seems like Gain +10 is the lower end of the Gain +18 range. Easy to adapt to the Gain settings then. Enjoy learning the ins and outs of the new UMBG2 camera. You’ve earned it!
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Steve Fishwick

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 10:38 am

The UMBG2 features gain from -12dB (100 ISO) up to +36dB (25,600 ISO). 1250 ISO is +10db, I believe. congrats on your purchase, I love mine, for sure. I'd be interested too on your comparisons between it and the Pocket 6K.
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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostMon Aug 15, 2022 11:02 am

Thank you bot Rick and Steve,

I will do a comparison in the coming days after I get a little more comfortable with the UMBG2. Please bear in mind that it will be from a hobbyist perspective. I don't have the depth of knowledge that both of you you have. One thing that has been glaring is that the 6kP is much quicker and quieter with the "push to" automated functions. Neither are stellar but that is well known.
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wemrick1

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 2:11 am

As promised, a comparison between the 6KP and the UMBG2. Both pics are grabs exported as tif files. Both files were reduced in size via photoshop. The 6KP file was set to fill the frame in DR. No other changes were made. The lens was a Rokinon T1.5 85mm wide open. ISO/Gain was 3200/18db.

I can't see a difference myself. Maybe you folks can with better trained eyes.
Attachments
Ursa small.tif
Ursa
Ursa small.tif (638 KiB) Viewed 367 times
6KP Small.tif
6KP
6KP Small.tif (637.72 KiB) Viewed 367 times
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Mike Potton

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 6:57 am

Why would there be a difference? it's the same sensor...
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Uli Plank

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 6:59 am

I can see a clear difference. The Ursa is greener, the 6K a bit more magenta.
The software may be free, but the hardware needed for smooth performance is not.

Resolve Studio 18.0.3 , MacOS 12.6
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
and
iMac 2017, Radeon 580, 32 GB RAM
Speed Editor
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Mike Potton

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 8:49 am

Uli Plank wrote:I can see a clear difference. The Ursa is greener, the 6K a bit more magenta.


That’s just a white balance mismatch.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 8:56 am

Quite possible, one needs to adjust not only blue-orange, but tint too.
The software may be free, but the hardware needed for smooth performance is not.

Resolve Studio 18.0.3 , MacOS 12.6
MacBook M1 Pro, 16 GPU cores, 32 GB RAM
and
iMac 2017, Radeon 580, 32 GB RAM
Speed Editor
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wemrick1

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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostWed Aug 17, 2022 11:23 am

Uli Plank wrote:I can see a clear difference. The Ursa is greener, the 6K a bit more magenta.


Appreciate that. You have a much better eye that I.
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Re: Need advice from ursa broadcast G2 users

PostTue Aug 23, 2022 9:30 am

Hello everyone, let me introduce myself my name is Roge and in our company we have 3 x Ursa Broadcast G2 for live events. Now we are going to shoot a documentary with 2 x UBG2 and a Pocket 6KPro. I have carefully read all your comments, I have been doing recording tests in 6K raw Q5 and 8:1 for a few weeks and assessing the noise levels with the gain adjustments in Db. To indoors or situation with low light level, 10db is the best setting I've found so that "noise" doesn't spike to high levels. If I increase the gain to 18db the noise is very visible. It is true that I still have the old firmware 7.5 and I am going to update today to the latest firmware 7.9.1, but I think that this update does not change anything in the noise level. For me the Blackmagic camera ecosystem is new, I come from working with Sony FS7 and Alphas. Thank you for your comments and sharing of experiences with the UBG2.

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